I wonder if believing that same-sex love is a natural and beautiful thing, would rule me out as "understanding the ethos of the these churches"?
This issue is a very serious one for the GLBT community, the State and Churches should be seperate, but what is happening is the governement is handing over power and money to religious organisations, and not any religious organisations, but ones who have an ugly record when it comes to homophobia.
serious shit! - Wed Dec 29 17:13:32 1999
But the Churches that have recently been given tax payers money, do freely discriminate and make public statements against homosexuality, they have also been known to provide services to people based on sexuality.
Archbishop Pell of the Catholic church in Melbourne, has recently come out in support of organisations that attempts to 'cure' homosexuality. The Salvation Army in San Francisco lost much of its public funding because they were unable (refused) to offer equal charity services to same-sex couples as opposite-sex couples. The Salvation Army's Bethesda Hospital in Richmond army was ruled against and fined, in a case that was the first unlawful termination claim for homosexual victimisation heard by the Federal Court (1/6/98).
festival-of-darkness - Tue Jan 4 1:06:41 2000
Then make your own decision on whether you are happy that the government is giving your tax money to this Church.
Tue Jan 4 1:34:40 2000
Chris Puplick (Anti-Discrimination Board) opinion on the issue - http://www.smh.com.au/news/0001/04/features/features3.html
Tue Jan 4 16:53:54 2000
Funny also how bisexuals aren't allowed as members of MG (so presumably they aren't welcome the parties either)and yet they turned up in force to all the rallies.
What's going on here, I thought MG was about fighting for our rights and not just an excuse to have a party (A confused young gay man) - Wed Jan 5 23:18:09 2000
Aside from this, with Mardi Gras appearing more and more like a farcical organisation with its rediculous apparent attitudes to bisexuals, is it any wonder people are losing interest in its original goals and changing focus to only the things they are getting out of Mardi Gras, ie a party every six months??
JJC - Fri Jan 7 11:52:51 2000
If you are going to make such broad statements it is a good idea to have your facts remotely correct.
I'm not a brain dead party boy. - Thu Jan 13 18:03:57 2000
Drug users/junkies take drugs to escape reality. Adrenaline is used to enhance reality.
Ecstasy ruins your brain permanently, leading to severe bouts of depression and there is no way you can repair this damage. If you wanna ruin your brain, fine. But don't expect the rest of us to stand by while you take down an organisation that is there to fight homophobia with you.
The gay community has got some serious problems with substance abuse (tobacco and alcohol included) and some of us are smart enough to see that this is causing damage to our community. It is time MG, as well as all the other party organisations, finally said something on this issue instead of just using party culture to raise funds.
Thu Jan 13 21:49:27 2000
>
But you have to remember that most of the party organisations *want* everyone to be on E. After all, it fills their dance floors. And if the truth be known, I'd bet that half if not more of the MG board have taken it if not still do. That isn't necessarily a criticism of them, it just demonstrates how far into mainstream gay culture E has reached. What I think is really sad is that people feel that they have to take it at all in order to have a good time. What's wrong with getting high on life? Are people's lives so awful, so shallow, that they have to escape from them with an E, even if it means long-term damage?
MG *could* be a bit of a beacon for the gay "community" on this. Will it?
free spirit - Fri Jan 14 18:47:37 2000
a second concern,
Fri Jan 14 21:27:09 2000
lets ban Drugs and Alcohol at the party. Lets drink Milkshakes and snort fresh air only. Get real this is the nauties. Country Chocolate goes futher.
Regional Queen - Fri Jan 14 21:44:15 2000
Regional queen - Why are you out there past George St?? Don't you know that nothing happens out there!!! Come into the ghetto where the only things that count happen!! Get with the times baby!!! There's no longer any need for you to live out in the wilderness
The above post is the sarcasm of the poster - Sat Jan 15 1:51:18 2000
More Soma! More Soma! More Soma!
Sat Jan 15 7:00:04 2000
The wilderness is where the real people live. Mardi Gras is the time when we all trek to Sydney to join in with all the city folk and observe the 'attitude' that Sydney exudes. Get over the attitude because Mardi Gras has outgrown it. It is the nauties and Sydney Queen attitude is out and Regional realism is in. But we still like your sex venues......
Regional Queen - Sat Jan 15 20:07:34 2000
I thought that that drugs were a Sydney queen attitude (referring to your post on Fri Jan 14 21:44:15 2000), and that you were all for realism. Were you being sarcastic in your comment? 'cause it didn't show
Sat Jan 15 20:22:43 2000
Drugs are not only a Sydney attitude. They are all around us but the Sydney scene glamafies it and normalises it to an extent that to belong in the Sydney scene you need to take drugs. It appears to many of us that without drugs the 2.1km Sydney Queen getto that the Mardi Gras parade will move through would wither up and die. Does our community have a drug problem or not. And if it does is Mardi Gras to blame (or credit)??
Regional Queen - Sat Jan 15 22:02:14 2000
I wouldn't say that MG is to blame for the drug problem. But I do think that they have a responsibility (along with Pride, Acon and every other organisation that raises funds through dance parties) to address the problem. There was that case in the US last year were a major organisation (I think it was the NY Gay men's health service) cancelled one of their major parties because of all the drugs and consequently all the barebacking that frequently accompanies drug taking, that was taking place at their parties. Now if i recall correctly some other group held a dance party instead and reaped the financial reward, so maybe that is what is happening here. Maybe if MG stops having a party on the October long weekend or Pride on NYE or Acon on the Queens birthday, then some other organisation will come along and fill the spot and then those organisations will have achieved nothing except losing out on the funds they would have raised had they held the party. Still I think it's a stand they should take (on drugs - not cancelling the parties)
Sat Jan 15 22:12:43 2000
Hang on guys, do none of you believe in the concept of "if it hurt no one.....". Our opponents believe that there is a risk involved with our lifestyle (being Gay), and this is reason to oppress us, and why there has been (is) laws against our sexual behaviour. This is not very different to criminalising drug use and treating drug users as less then human. The safest and least oppressive method is to educated about responsible use, so that individuals may manage the risk (including not to use), not just of the drugs them selves, but including issues such of unprotected sex.
reasoned point of view - Sun Jan 16 2:05:17 2000
Everything is relative, the "if it hurt no-one..." argument too. Makers of snuff movies like that argument. I thought that opponents of gays per se were against us because they feared us, nothing more - they don't understand us, therefore we must be wrong. That there is a risk involved is just one of their arguments. But generally, reasoned, you're right, I reckon, in that greater understanding is always the way forward. If people were all more understanding towards one another anyway, then they wouldn't want E's in order to feel full of love. Why can't this analysis be turned around? People take E's to feel good, to feel loving. Why not just be loving? Mg could use that argument, couldn't it?
Sun Jan 16 3:11:46 2000
I have trouble understanding the fuss about e. The "legal" drugs...alchohol and tobacco....are at least if not more harmful to the body than drugs like e, and the social cost and fall out from abuse of legal drugs is staggering. The direct medical evidence of the harm caused by misuse is overwhelming. Yet, because they're socially acceptable, no one criticises their use. In my opinion, e is no different to the "legal" drugs....used responsibly, it makes you feel nice, with the unique effect of making you feel more friendly towards virtually every other person. For a short period of time, everything is good and peaceful - and it feels terrific, especially in a shared environment like a party. Misuse happens - yes. Some people are idiots and try to push it too far - yes. But in no smaller or greater proportion than what happens with the legal drugs in broader society. For me, the point is that using recreational drugs - like e - has nowhere near the social impact (in terms of health problems and social problems such as violence) caused by misuse of mainstream drugs. I'm sure everyone saw the newspaper reports of police comments re NYE, where they said they had the most peaceful NYE in memory, and they believed an increased use of e probably contributed. Lastly, I can't see how this is a SGLMG or Pride or ACON problem. What can they do to stop it? Drug use is a persohal decision. Even if they could stop it, I believe the result would be less support for the parties, which in turn would put stress on their viability. Anyway, this is just my personal opinion. Can I hear you snoring already ?? : )
jeffgg - Sun Jan 16 9:16:16 2000
Then again, it may be a combination of many things? And having Organisations at our disposal ... with vested interest, should show signs of Care!
Live - Sun Jan 16 10:32:49 2000
We're heading off topic here, perhaps, but. This still relates to the hoped for discouragement of drug-taking at the SGLMG parties.... A whole lot of people are criticising use of tobacco and alcohol. Have a look at a cigarette packet if you think otherwise. Or drink and drive regs. And that's just a part of the criticism they get, continually.
There are so many reasons why this NYE was to be a peaceful one. Consider that the overwhelming majority of people at the NYE events generally were not on E. It was the millenium, you know! Not just any old NYE! "Eternity"! Couple the immensity of that on its own with the increasing level of spirituality amongst people in general (yes, really), which itself is not unconnected to the turn of the millenium, and you have the most peaceful NYE in memory. It was the non-drug-inspired desire for happiness amongst people at large that heightened the night's feeling of one-ness. E's were and are unnecessary.
Sun Jan 16 10:55:24 2000
Yeah, and illegal drugs don't get a battering every single day in the papers or on the tele... what drugs are you on?? Puh-lease!
Sun Jan 16 13:54:42 2000
The line between drug use and abuse is fine and easy to step over. We have to be continually on guard that we don't start depending on drugs whenever we want fun. The fact that the parties run from midnight to dawn, a time when most of us are usually asleep, means we are already in an altered state.
Sun Jan 16 13:59:22 2000
I don't think many of you have any idea why people take drugs recreationally. To put it simply, some people find drugs fun, just as some of us find sex, a good book or driving fast fun. People do not take drugs recreationally to escape from reality, the party drugs such as E, ACID and Speed are not the best for this purpose, in fact Alcohol which is easily accessible is far better and cheaper for the purpose of escaping reality.How many of you would also agree that Mardi Gras should do something about our wine industry, after all they are promoting a drug that is abused by many individuals? Hang on, isn't Killawarra, Stolichnaya and Hann Ice major sponsors of this years Mardi Gras festival? I guess if Mardi Gras wants to make a concerted effort to ward people of illegal drugs, they should make the same effort with the legal ones, not quite sure how the sponsors would feel about this though.
But then again Mardi Gras is kind of famous for its double standards and hypocrisy, look at where bisexuals stand.
open your eyes. - Sun Jan 16 17:12:26 2000
Sun Jan 16 13:59:22 2000 - you said "The line between drug use and abuse is fine and easy to step over" - would you also say that the line between a beer drinker or wine connoisseur and alcoholic is a fine line?
no double standards! - Sun Jan 16 17:19:21 2000
Any one for coffee?
Sun Jan 16 17:21:42 2000
Sun Jan 16 3:11:46 2000 - you said "Everything is relative, the "if it hurt no-one..." argument too. Makers of snuff movies like that argument." - Excuse my ignorance, I don't know any makers of snuff movies, but doesn't someone get killed in a snuff movie? My opinion might be different to yours, but death of a healthy individual usually means they were hurt in someway.Your attempt at linking drug users to snuff movies, is just the same as our enemies attempt to link homosexuality to paedophilia. This might be a great method to sensationalise an issue and to create ignorance and hate towards a specific group of people, but it certainly doesn't carry a great deal of logic.
does not compute. - Sun Jan 16 17:39:24 2000
No thanks, I prefer a cigerette break
Sun Jan 16 17:46:37 2000
You guys have given me a head ache, anyone got a Panadol?
Sun Jan 16 17:49:22 2000
So has any progess been made regarding the membership issue or was MG's statement late last year just an attempt to calm "undesirables" down so that they don't make a fuss during the festival????
Well if anyone from MG reads this (and they do no matter whether they admit it or not) they should take note that it is only a few weeks away from the festival and that they had better get moving with real progress regarding membership reform because no simple statement of intent will stop the new (r)evolution.
The membership issue will get resolved one way or another, it's just up to MG to decide whether the gay community comes out of this unscathed or not.
Sun Jan 16 20:09:58 2000
Over to you David?
Sun Jan 16 20:28:45 2000
Quite a few of us bisexuals, will be watching closely at what is said and done at the festival launch. What we plan for the time during the festival and what we will be doing come the parade will be determined by whether we feel the issue of bisexual inclusion will be actively pursued, or whether we feel the initial statement by Mardi Gras was just to keep us silent for the festival.
Sun Jan 16 20:55:24 2000
It won't only be bisexuals who will be watching what is said closely. There are plenty of gay men and lesbians who completely support the inclusion of our bisexual brothers and sisters and we are prepared to give full support all efforts needed in order to see that bigotry on the basis of someone's sexual orientation is eradicated from our community.
Sun Jan 16 21:21:30 2000
It was said at the membership meeting that not much more could be done before Mardi Gras. I agree that there have been no press releases or similar, but that is about all that could be achieved at this extremely busy time of year. The Festival, Parade and Party leave *no* time for MG volunteers (including the board) to do anything else.
Panther - Mon Jan 17 9:07:01 2000
How convenient
Mon Jan 17 10:18:38 2000
It doesn't take much of an effort to make some comments at the festival launch and at other relevent events.
Mon Jan 17 15:31:01 2000
The time for "comments" is up. They've had a whole year in which to deal with things and they haven't done anything. It's time for action now and that is all that will be acceptable.
Mon Jan 17 16:16:27 2000
no gays or lesbian artists on the new MG cd. shame shame shame
Mon Jan 17 16:56:24 2000
Both the DJs are Australian, aren't they?? It's a Dance Album, for god's sake
Mon Jan 17 17:43:03 2000
It won't only be bisexuals who will be watching what is said closely. There are plenty of gay men and lesbians who completely support the exclusion of bisexual men and women. Let them have their own festival.
Mon Jan 17 17:57:31 2000
bigot!
Mon Jan 17 18:30:23 2000
Of course there are many gay men and lesbians who support the exclusion of bisexuals, being gay or lesbian doesn't mean you are not a bigot. That is why some of us will not feel any guilt when/if we cause a lot of trouble that will have a negative impact on all queers.
Mon Jan 17 18:35:31 2000
oh happy f***ing Mardi Gras. sheesh
Mon Jan 17 21:51:54 2000
keep bi's out !!
anti bi takeover - Mon Jan 17 21:54:06 2000
Can someone please explain why they're bothered if I want to get off my face on e at a party and then bareback my boyfriend? This is our choice!!
Drugs & Sex are not my life! - Mon Jan 17 21:59:51 2000
Is the above post a feeble attempt by MG to keep the topic of bisexual exclusion? Good luck you're gonna need it.
Mon Jan 17 22:20:14 2000
Is the above post a feeble attempt by MG to keep the topic off bisexual exclusion? Good luck you're gonna need it.
Mon Jan 17 22:20:21 2000
Mon Jan 17 17:57:31 2000 - Please leave your name and address next time that you pop onto this board because I'd like to send around some homophobic cops around to your place to start beating the crap out of you. That way you could find out what it was really like at the original '78 MG because you obviously don't know what MG is really all about. Think of it as your history lesson - the practical component.
Mon Jan 17 22:23:35 2000
gay in the life
coming out soon - Mon Jan 17 23:17:16 2000
"Drugs and sex are not my life" - in case you are for real, just carry on as you want to, but don't expect society to take any care of you at all or to pay for the combination therapies that you're much more likely to need. And if you do need them, who should you blame? But of course, society would do something to try to help you, as it does for most of those who attempt suicide.
Tue Jan 18 0:11:13 2000
This drug taking/barebacking topic is just a ruse to keep the topic diverted off the more contraversial topic of bisexual inclusion (wow this really is a crazy world seeing as they are resorting to these tactics)
Tue Jan 18 0:20:29 2000
The topic of bisexual inclusion is not progressing at all. All we see here is threats to disrupt Mardi Gras.
Panther - Tue Jan 18 8:38:38 2000
As for barebacking - Seeing people having sex without condoms sends the message to other people that it is OK to have sex without condoms. So they do it without knowing or understanding the consequences, and they become infected with HIV. What people do in private is their own business, but when they are in public they must be mindful of their effect on others.
Panther - Tue Jan 18 8:46:20 2000
Panther, What do you expect bisexuals to do? It has been almost a year since this all came up and N O T H I N G has been done. Do you expect bisexuals to just sit back nice and passively like good little boys and girls while the MG board and all those who control it re-write history?? Let's never forget that there were bisexuals at the first MG and that they have always been a part of it. This is just like europeans coming to australia in the 1700's and saying that this was "empty" land when we all know it wasn't, they invaded an occupied land and then re-wrote the facts to make them look like the good guys. It's exactly the same thing here. Don't let the same thing happen again. Bisexuals are and have always been a part of MG and if they have to resort to disrupting MG events then it is more an indication of the level of bigotry within our own community than anything else. And let me tell you that alot of gay men and lesbians will completely support them all the way.
btw thanks for editing my previous post out completely. It's obvious that you don't know what happened at the original MG either - homophobic cops beat the crap out of anyone who was identified as "other".
Tue Jan 18 11:25:08 2000
Panther - Threats are the only thing Mardi Gras and many gay men and lesbians understand, we have been trying for years to get them to change the bigoted policies, but nothing! It is not until the shit hit the fan and we got some publicity around the issue last year, that anyone paid any attention to our plight.I can tell you know I'm willing to do almost anything to get attention around this issue, and so would you if you have worked in the bisexual community and realise how much suffering bisexuals go through. We have closet rates at about the same as gay and lesbians had in the 60's, suicide and depression amongst those who are confused about their same and opposite sex attraction is equal if not greater then gays and lesbians, unfortunately bisexuals have few people they can turn to for help, mainly because we have gained practically zero advance in our liberation despite many of us being involved in activism and being beaten in 78. Why is this so you may ask, well it is simple, the majority group of the queer community (gays and lesbians) has done their best to keep us oppressed and to insure that they own all of the playing field when it comes to issues of sexuality.
Panther, what do you expect us to do? Stand back and continue to watch other bisexuals suffer! Why can we not be given a piece of what gays and lesbians take for granted? While you argue about what djs are playing at the party, we are trying to help people with basic concept that you can be bisexual and be out and proud about it. There are many bisexual people, I should know, but how many are to f*cking scared to come out? (yes the same can be said about gays and lesbians, but no where near the same percentage) Main-stream society looks upon us as perverted freaks, and gay and lesbian community gets great delight out of discriminating against us, possibly it makes them feel more liberated.
I thank all the gay men and lesbians out their that support us, unfortunately it just feels like you are a minority, I really hope something happens that proves me wrong about this.
Tue Jan 18 12:12:04 2000
bisexuals are cool
Tue Jan 18 15:46:07 2000
Tue Jan 18 11:25:08 2000 - I don't remember editing anything out on this wall recently.
As to doing something constructive, I would suggest that you make yourselves very visible and campaign for bisexual inclusion. You will need to present lots of excellent reasons why bisexuals should be included. It is the members you have to convince and the members who will decide. Mardi Gras is the perfect time to get access to the members.
In fact I would not be at all surprised in the effect of threats or action against the festival would be to turn people against bisexual inclusion.
Panther - Tue Jan 18 19:41:14 2000
Reasons why bisexuals should be included in MG??? ummm..... they were kind of there at the first MG...... they've always been a part of MG...... the word "gay" included all people who slept with members of the same sex even part of the time in '78 (read Frontrunner and you'll see what I mean)... they get discriminated just as much as gay men and lesbians do, simply on the basis of their sexuality (from both the straight community as well as the gay community)..... they have fought homophobia just as much as any of us.... they have contributed so much to where MG and our community is today... because WE ARE ONE
Tue Jan 18 20:44:07 2000
This is the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Graffiti Wall - that's right bi's "gay" & "lesbian" not bi freaks - so keep out!
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 21:58:09 2000
to "We are one" ...yep its ture you are one alright! What complete crap you posted!
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:01:28 2000
Panther: so barebacking is ok in public but not in private? Just like drug taking then?
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:06:15 2000
Gay & Proud - You have made me feel something I haven't felt for a long time - ashamed at being gay. You are a bigot and a disservice to our community.
Tue Jan 18 22:10:18 2000
Firstly, I don't give a "F" for society, it's dominanted by the sexist values of hetrosexism. I live for my queer self and now.
Secondly Panther are you really saying if I want to screw in public I need to be mindful of their effect on others!! Would you say the same about my e taking at the SGLMG party? I think not. Too many queens in Sydney love to pass judgement without getting the facts. Barebacking is ok...yes ok and even better when on E!
Drugs and Sex are not my life - Tue Jan 18 22:12:27 2000
I can't wait for Fred Nile and the Daily Telegraph to get a hold of this ridiculous situation that this community finds itself in. It'll be worth it losing all my rights to see bigots like "gay & proud" get what he deserves.
Tue Jan 18 22:13:21 2000
Im proud to be a diservice. Keep Bi's out of our Mardi Gras.
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:14:58 2000
Fre Nile for MG president!! only joking, lol
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:16:21 2000
"Our MG"???? ... funny how bisexuals were there when the cops started beating the crap out of us and have been with us all the way as MG developed. When did it become "your" MG???
Tue Jan 18 22:17:44 2000
If I remember it was actually the Gay Mardi Gras you bi dumb ass, that's before the dykes took over and now the bi's want to jump on too. Whos next paedophiles?
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:25:42 2000
Yay! Dolly Dunn for pres!
Tue Jan 18 22:32:26 2000
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:25:42 2000 - Actually I'm gay. And if you read my earlier posting in 1978 the word "gay" included lesbians and bisexual men and women. So if it was called "Gay MG" then that included bisexual men and women. And it's nice to see that you don't like lesbians either - that'll win you lots of friends.
Tue Jan 18 22:36:31 2000
Another post re-writing history from a bi standpoint. Gay never did mean anything other than gay men. Check this out with the early SF groups or GLF in London who Sydney (slowly) followed!
ps. I don't hate lesbians - just accord them their own right to be dykes not "gay women" - unlike bi's who want to shag them!
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:40:56 2000
" that's before the dykes took over" - that doesn't sound too much like you like them.
Tue Jan 18 22:47:32 2000
Hello!!!! Bi dumb ass - is the Gay Mardi Gras not now called the Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras? Is the attendance at the AGM not now dominated by women? Is the parade now not led by the dykes on bikes? Has it not in recent years had two female Presidents? Is there not a conecert of the female voice at this year's festival? Yes they have taken over & good on them...most of them want to keep you bi's out too! Good on them for getting off their arse and keeping it Gay and Lesbian - yes that means not bi!
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:55:07 2000
As I keep on trying to tell you I am GAY
Tue Jan 18 22:59:08 2000
yeh and Im a Dyke on a Bike...lol. Create your own MG bi dumb ass!
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 23:01:28 2000
I wonder if any of your offensive comments will get edited from the board or if they don't come under the definition of "offensive language" - you stupid dumb ass queen.
A very ashamed gay man - Tue Jan 18 23:09:12 2000
Hey "a very ashamed gay man" - if I was you I'd be ashamed too! Be Gay & Proud! There's nothing offensive in posting an honest opinion. Remember many bigots around the world think just being gay is offensive, if you want to stop free speech then you're in bed with the bigots too!
Hey Panther - surely all this bi talk is off subject anyhow as this is the Sydney "Gay" & "Lesbian" MG Graffiti wall :)
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 23:15:59 2000
"you bi dumb ass" - Tue Jan 18 22:25:42 2000
"Create your own MG bi dumb ass!" - Tue Jan 18 23:01:28 2000
That's an opinion?? It's not an opinion it's just vile language. And it will get edited from this board even if I have to go to the Anti-Discrimination board.
What works for the nameless one.... - Tue Jan 18 23:46:18 2000
Keep burning those books "What works for the nameless one...."
- isn't it funny how so called anti-discriminators hate free speech! Im sad :(
Gay & Proud & Sad - Tue Jan 18 23:56:33 2000
"you stupid dumb ass queen."
A very ashamed gay man - Tue Jan 18 23:09:12 2000
isn't this offensive too?
oh, but oh no you agree with that comment don't you "What works for the nameless one..." so of course that's ok!
Btw ...I find it offensive that bi's want to disrupt our gay & lesbian Mardi Gras in the pursuit of their own selfish and confused agenda!
Gay Proud & Sad - Wed Jan 19 0:02:05 2000
Gay Proud and Sad - I find it sad and offensive that bisexuals have been placed in a position where they feel this is their only avenue. I wish they would realise that idiots like you are actually a loud but small minority, and that most gays and lesbians are ashamed or dissapointed with what is happening with Mardi Gras in regards to bisexuals.
Gay, Proud & supporting our Bisexual brothers and sisiters. - Wed Jan 19 0:28:40 2000
Gay & Proud is a bi plant. Ignore her.
Wed Jan 19 1:51:16 2000
Wed Jan 19 1:51:16 2000 - Yeah, and some of the other people posting on this wall are noxious weeds.
Wed Jan 19 5:28:41 2000
In 78 MG was about protesting the laws regarding the right to have sex with somebody of the same gender. Having sex with somebody of the same gender was an offence that was punishable. There was never a case for punishining people who have sex with the opposite gender. In fact, sexual unions involving the opposite gender are sanctioned under the law. Bisexual couples who where the couple are of opposing gender may marry, are entitled to tax advantages, may be considered defacto after two years of co-habitation and may have children both in natural circumstances and artificially in some places. none of this is currently available to gay men and lesbians or indeed, to the same-sex bisexual unions. This does not make it a bisexual cause but a same-sex cause which Mg was fighting and is still fighting.
Wed Jan 19 10:42:07 2000
Wed Jan 19 10:42:07 2000 - Yes same sex love and gender identity was the issue, and what we all are fighting for in 78. This has changed though, and is now a gay and lesbian issue, i.e. it is now all about 2 specific identity, which means bisexuals and to a lesser extent trannies, have been excluded.Oh and if you think it is easy being out as bisexual and having a female partner, then you are a f*cking bigoted idiot! And what about bisexual couples of the same-sex, should they call them selves gay or lesbian so they will be treated with some respect by bigoted f*cking fools like you? As for me, I'm not monogamous, and have a male and female partner (all bisexual), what rights do I have being in a polyamorous relationship, no laws cover me yet! I cop homophobia from main-stream society and biphobia from gay and lesbian community, not to mention the hate I receive for having multiple relationships. Using your stupid analysis, I am more oppressed then you!
Mardi Gras currently fights for Gay and Lesbian identity full stop! This is because the majority queer group of gays and lesbians has taken over the movement and pushed out anyone who doesn't fit their narrow definition......you should all be ashamed of your selves!!!!
Wed Jan 19 11:21:17 2000
Panther - you said that if we bisexuals continue to threaten Mardi Gras we will end up with people against us, this may be true, but since you have joined in the threats, I feel I have the right to ask which side of the fence you sit on? So do you want to Include or Exclude bisexuals?You see we have no options left other then to cause trouble, if we do not have anyone supporting us. Do you want to make a stand and let everyone know you are for bisexual inclusion, or are you too scared of what your friend will say, or do you think it will effect your homepage count, or do you just believe that bisexuals should be excluded?
Wed Jan 19 11:39:27 2000
Bisexuals are troublemakers and do a lot of harm to the gl community.They never were part of Gay Lib in the 1970s, as someone else here said they just try to rewrite history. Were bisexuals at the stonewall roits? No they were tuck up safely in bed with their partner of the opposite sex.
Bi is Bad - Wed Jan 19 11:48:31 2000
Bisexuality doesn't really exist.
Gay & proud - Wed Jan 19 11:58:49 2000
Is it true that bisexuals plan to blockade this year's parade? I think this is silly and will turn everyone against them.
Wed Jan 19 12:12:55 2000
It is untrue that bisexuals plan to blockade the parade, this is usually left up to Fred Nile...........but stop giving us ideas!By the way, why can none of you bigots come up with any sensible counter arguments, or do you rely on pack mentality and gossip to get the job done?
Wed Jan 19 12:21:22 2000
The reason we don't answer your moronic bi freak questions is that you are confused sick people who should be locked up in mental institutions.
Wed Jan 19 12:32:17 2000
Here's a sensible counter argument: we don't want bi's in the Sydney "Gay" & "Lesbian" Mardi Gras. You really don't get it do you? It's our MG not your's - create your own. The reality is if Bi's get accepted so will Str8s which basically means the death of the parade, party and the whole bloody organisation.
Gay & Proud - Wed Jan 19 12:59:27 2000
Gay and Proud - Do you mind Transgender people being apart of Sydney "Gay" and "Lesbian" Mardi Gras?Well to bad if you do, as they are already included, and guess what, most trannies are heterosexual! But you are too bigotted and stupid to realise any of this, and as you said if you had your way Lesbians wouldn't be included either.
Wed Jan 19 13:15:52 2000
Wed Jan 19 12:32:17 2000 - you don't deserve a response.
Wed Jan 19 13:21:02 2000
GLBT - Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender. This is the model most International and overseas organisations have embraced. Why is it that Australia's premier organisation is incapable of moving to this model, why are we so behind the rest of the world.
Wed Jan 19 13:25:01 2000
So now you're trying to rewrite my comments as well as gay history!!!
Re-read my comments. Im happy to have lesbians in MG & they do most of the work lets face it. I treat lesbians as dykes in their own right not "gay women" I want to shag - unlike most bisexuals.
And as for the comment about trannies being hetero's - wow thats a new one, lol. I think you're a bit confused doll between transgender, transsexual & transvestite :)
Also as for GLBT being the model overseas - who cares, maybe that's why they have such a crap record in most overseas countries with regard to gay and lesbian rights cos the bloody bisexuals are pursuing their own selfish and confused agenda at the expense of ours!!
Be bisexual in your own organisations not ours!
Gay & Proud - Wed Jan 19 13:50:38 2000
To quote you Gay and Proud - "If I remember it was actually the Gay Mardi Gras you bi dumb ass, that's before the dykes took over and now the bi's want to jump on too. Whos next paedophiles? " Now who is rewriting history? Do you deny writing this on Tue Jan 18 22:25:42 2000 The reason overseas organisations are using the GLBT model, is because they realise they need as many people as possible to fight against homophobia, the problem in Sydney, Australia is that ghettoised fools such as your self think you have all the rights you need, and that you can now discriminate against other groups, namely bisexuals. We were there in the beginning, it is not until fools like you started thinking you don't need us any more, that we got excluded.
I'm confused about transgender, transsexual & transvestite!???! I think you are the one who is getting transgender people confused with drag queens, the fact is that most transgender people are heterosexual, and I don't think anyone would deny this, except for a bigoted fool like you who is unable to answer my initial question. Why is it Ok for transgender people to be included when they are not Gay or Lesbian and not bisexual????? You see if a M-F trannie only f*cks men, they are heterosexual, I know your small brain might have difficulty with this concept, but if you try really hard you might work it out, we can only hope.
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 14:27:31 2000
How narrow minded are you Bi & Proud to think that transgendered people are not gay or lesbian too. Ever heard of a m to f trannie who f*cks women - yep she's a dyke too!! But oh no you militant bisexuals f*ck everything don't you, including f*cking up g&l organisations.
Bisexuals were never there at the beginning of the first lesbian and gay movements (and no Im not talking about Sydney '78...lol).
We've never needed you and don't now.
Answer a simple question...why can't you create your own Bisexual Mardi Gras?
bts...drag queens are entertainers you fool not a sexuality.
Gay & Proud - Wed Jan 19 16:18:34 2000
Fight against Homophobia? look at your own comments and tell me where your fight against homophobia starts. You can start by not being so phobic about MG members. By the way, I can't recall any tranny ever saying to me they were 'hetrosexual'.
Wed Jan 19 16:21:06 2000
All this bisexual bull has got me thinking about setting up a "Keep Bi's outta Mardi Gras" ticket at the next MG elections. Anyone interested?
Gay & Proud - Wed Jan 19 16:21:52 2000
see comments dated Wed Jan 19 16:21:06 2000
we are not alone - many MG members are very happy the way things are! Keep bi's out!
Gay & Proud - Wed Jan 19 16:26:47 2000
Bi and Proud's quote "the fact is that most transgender people are heterosexual" is very funny but shows a lack of understanding on queer issues. I agree that MG is not for bisexuals.
Wed Jan 19 16:37:35 2000
Your a moron, I did not say that Trannies are not Gay and Lesbian as well, I just said that the majority are straight, and that Mardi Gras includes these straight trannies in their constitiution, you are such a fool. Still you have not answered any of my questions, you just jump from one bigotted statement to another. Why would any trannie tell you they are heterosexual, knowing what a bigoted fool you are.Please do start the ticket, then all the other bigots like your self can get together and talk about how much better you all are then anyone else, and hopefully leave the real job of fighting homophobia to the rest who are happy to embrace diversity.
You are such a f*cking moron, the way you change what someone writes into what you like, if you are going to debate with someone have the decentcy of not misquoting them, or is this too difficult for you, or don't you have an argument with out lies.
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 17:00:15 2000
Wed Jan 19 16:37:35 2000 - what are you doing using the word queer, I thought you are for gay and lesbian purity, or does queer only mean gay and lesbian all of a sudden?
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 17:02:30 2000
I'll tell you why I hate bi freaks, I once believed they were just like gays and lesbians but when one left me for a women because he couldn't deal with a gay life, I decided from then on that they have nothing to do with us. Keep bi freaks out of MG!
Wed Jan 19 17:16:02 2000
Why don't you call the Gender Centre and find out how many trannies identify as heterosexual, you have heard of the Gender Centre haven't you? Also I should correct my self, as many trannies identify as bisexual, which means they should not be in Mardi Gras even more, according to your stupid analysis of who should be in and who shouldn't.Gay and Proud lets see if you can answer a simple question, do you agree that there are trannies that identify as heterosexual? If you do agree (not sure how you cannot), does it make sense to you that straight trannies are made automatic members of Mardi Gras, and bisexuals are not? Also why are trannies even members if it is a "Gay" and "Lesbian" organisation? Lets see if you can answer these simple questions, if you are unable to, I don't think I will waste my time with a loser like you any longer.
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 17:32:10 2000
Wed Jan 19 17:16:02 2000 - Ok, so a bisexual left you because he was scared of living a "gay life", this is one of the reasons you should fight for bisexual rights and inclusion into Mardi Gras. Ask the question, why are people scared of others finding out they are queer? He left you for the same reason a closeted gay man might leave you, and how do you know he wasn't a gay man in transition or one that could not come to terms with being gay. May be he left you because you wanted him to be a gay man, when he was bisexual, you comments about living a "gay life" indicate you had little understanding about what it is like to be bisexual, this can of course be excused, but to now turn around and blame all bisexuals because a relationship didn't work out is rather petty.
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 18:41:21 2000
Gay and Proud - If you want to find the facts around how many trannies are heterosexual, why don't you visit the Transgender FAQ available from - http://www.geocities.com/~steph_anderson/tgfaq.htmYou are truly an idiot who is absolutely unable to come to any conclusions that might make any sense, probably because you spend so much time lying to cover just up how stupid you really are, if you were not such a bigoted fool I would feel sorry for you.
Bi & Proud - Wed Jan 19 18:46:01 2000
Wed Jan 19 17:16:02 2000. I think you could be mistaken. The reason he left was because you're a loser and an arsehole. Simple really.
Wed Jan 19 20:30:36 2000
If it's ok for a bi man to suck you off boys and it happens lots, why isn't it ok for them to be part of our Mardi Gras. The same go for the Girls that have bi woman as lovers. After all if where not straight we're queer are we not.
Regional Queen - Wed Jan 19 21:38:57 2000
Regional Queen, this is too difficult for some of the ghetto boys to understand, they only seem to care that they were dropped by a bi guy. Such fragile little egos.
Wed Jan 19 22:07:42 2000
Ghetto, Ghetto, Ghetto. Life goes on out of the ghetto. It's the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras not the Darlo ghetto queens passing out parade. Get a life guys there's more to life that the 2.1km Darlo ghetto. That's right folks milk come from a cow, birds sing and trees grow outside the ghetto. Mardi Gras is no longer a Sydney Queens festival it belongs to all of us. The focus is no longer Sydney Queens with attitude(some attitude!!), it is Australias yearly Queerfest of pride, art and we're queer, we're here , get used to it movement.Non Straight is the way the main stream community see Mardi Gras and not just Darlo Queens with Attitude, tight shorts and names like Mary. Sorry Chaps but a bit of truth can get in the way of a good thing... :))
Regional Queen (yolanda59@yahoo.com) - Wed Jan 19 22:27:07 2000
Wed Jan 19 11:39:27 2000 - I support a wide reaching review of the current membership situation. As part of this I would like to see bisexuals included in the membership. In fact I voted for inclusion of bisexuals at the meeting back in 1995(?), and I have supported inclusion many times both publicly and privately.
Panther - Wed Jan 19 22:51:32 2000
Gay & Proud - Tue Jan 18 22:40:56 2000 - You are the one changing history (herstory?) here. In the late 1980s the lesbian separatist movement succeeded in raising the profile of lesbians by calling themselves lesbians rather than gay women. A few years later the then SGMG acknowledged this change by including lesbian in the name. In the last few years the bisexual community has done a great job of raising their own profile and forcing us all to acknowledge their unique issues.
Panther - Wed Jan 19 23:03:27 2000
I hope I dont get too off topic (sorry if this is so), but after all the above, I was moved to write something... I'm not sure that sexuallity should really be the issue, arnt we really talking about culture here? Why cant those who feel they are a part of the queer (to use an inclusive term) community be allowed to join a community organisation? Surely our community is not defined as just those who sleep with people of the same sex? Or even just those who live in the inner city or patron Oxford St venues? eg Shouldnt members of pflag (to name one group) be allowed to join? Surely they can (or should) be considered apart of our community? I'm sure there are bisexuals who dont identify as being apart of our community, so obviously they would be unlikely to join, but for those who do why exclude them? Even MardiGras in all its advertising and marketing glory puts forward the idea that we are a "diverse" community! I realise this means including a lot of people, but when you look at it this is happening anyway, cultures evolve over time, we cant expect the heterosexual culture to change without that change also impacting on us. We're whitnessing the mainstreaming of gay culture, what was begun all those years ago by activism is being continued by corporatism, but surely acceptance is what we've all been working towards and wanting? Why now when it begins to start happening do we try to get out of it?! I'd apreciate some rational comment on this, its my take on the situation, I can already imagine what some may have to say about it, but for those who can put forward some fair ideas on subject I would really like to read them.
Zakalwe - Wed Jan 19 23:13:24 2000
Panther - your comments dated Wed Jan 19 23:03:27 2000 - I totally agree with! But gay activism didn't start in the 70s or 80s - check out history - try the early 1900s in Europe! There were many groups, particularly in Germany, who were the pioneers of the modern gay movements before they were crushed by Nazism.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 8:56:05 2000
Zakalwe - is the term "queer" really inclusive? I think a few people would argue with you on that one.
And Bi & Proud - I don't think I ever used the term queer! But Im sure you've documented everything I ever said in your single focussed mind and will correct me if Im wrong...lol.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 9:00:18 2000
Reading all the comments this morning I guess I've come under a lot of criticism. But even the militant bisexuals who post here (and make threats to destory the SGLMG) must agree at least my opinions are honest & open. A lot of gay men and particularly lesbians feel the same way but are too scared to voice their opinions through fear of being heckled, belittled or worse by the militant bisexuals. You can read why fear exists - amongst the postings on pinkboard - eg. disrupting MG, blockade of the parade, even physical threats ...which Panther removed. Remember fear is a powerful allies of the bigot.
To make it clear (and especially for my friend Bi & Proud!)I am in favour of the SGLMG membership open to Lesbians and Gay Men only! And yes this includes trannies who identify their sexuality as gay or lesbian.
I don't support the inclusion of bisexuals or heterosexuals at all including trannie bi's & hets. I think that's pretty clear.
Now tell me Bi & Proud as you continually refuse to answer this - why can't bisexuals create their own Mardi Gras? Rather than destroy the Sydney "Gay" and "Lesbian" Mardi Gras.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 9:11:19 2000
all this talk about messing with mardi gras will prove counter productive to the bisexual cause. Nobody likes a bunch of spoilt brats who ruin everything for evryone just because they cant get their own way.
Footy Boy - Thu Jan 20 10:01:27 2000
Yes I would admit that you are open and honest and do have the courage to say what you feel, unlike most people. This honesty does not make you any less a bigot. I find it so funny that you choose to use the same language the Christian Right use, ever heard the term Militant Homosexual? you are so very sad.
Not one bisexuals has said anything about a blockade of the parade or physical threats, can you show me where this has been writing by anyone identifying as bisexual. The only one making threats against you was a gay man, who is quite ashamed that gay men like you exist. You are such a confused liar, who totally relies on pack mentality and gossip, you are no different then any other bigot including homophobic Christians. If you are the majority, the community is doomed for mediocrity, very sad because it could of been so much better.
You realise that straight and bi transgender people are already able to join, what do you think about this? Are you willing to fight to change Mardi Gras' constitution to exclude them?
The reason why should not have to start the Bi Mardi Gras or what ever else you want to call it is simple. Mardi Gras is the queer communities platform to main-stream society, the playing field for this is totally taken up by Mardi Gras, there is no more room for such an event, so to exclude us is to exclude us from the right to fight for our liberation. I'm sure you will disagree with this, and make up some lie to prove your point, but those are the facts. The second reason is that we were there is 78, I know for a fact that there were bisexuals in 78 and have been involved in the organisation ever since, again you will refute this and make up some stupid lie or try and change history just like main-stream society has done to all of us. If you had your way, Lesbians would not have anything to do with Mardi Gras either, you had the courage to mention your hate towards lesbians and how they took over Mardi Gras in a previous post, are you now too afraid to voice this opinion again, will the "militant" lesbians get you? (sarcasm).
It must be a very sad life to constantly live in fear of others taking over or destroying what you believe is yours, are you that frightened of other peoples liberty that you want to oppress them just in case? What makes you any different to a homophobe who believes that queers are going to take over the world and destroy culture as we know it?
Yes fear is a powerful ally of the bigot, which is why people like you use it so readily, how many closeted bisexuals have you met, that don't tell you they are not gay, through fear? You see closets exist on both sides, but for some reason a closet in the heterosexual world is oppression, but one in the gay and lesbian community is you rightfully protecting what you have. How can you live with such double standards, or may be the question should be how can you justify them?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 10:22:15 2000
I will say it once, so that the scare mongers, bigots, gossip mongers will understand. There is no organised group of bisexuals, trying to disrupt the Mardi Gras parade or any other event, to say otherwise is a lie propagated by biphobic bigots who have learnt a few things from our homophobic enemy. We do however have no control over what an angry individual or few will do, just as Mardi Gras does not control the whole gay and lesbian community. So if someone goes to the main-stream media or tries some other method for attention, they are an individual acting on their own, personally I don't blame them, when people have been disposed of power they are prone to do anything, being gay or lesbian should at least help you understand the feeling of hopelessness in an oppressive situation, or have you all forgotten or never experienced it because the ghetto has kept you safe.Here is the low down for you morons, there is a group of Queers, who intend to do a few things in protest of bisexual exclusion, among other things such as pink dollar and the corporisatation of Mardi Gras, these people are homosexual in sexuality but Queer in identity. I know this because they have approach me to join them, I said I will wait and see what happens at the festival launch, as there has been some indication from David McLachlan that Mardi Gras will be moving to a broader membership structure. So mister Gay and Proud, you don't even have an idea who your real enemy is, that is because it is your own kind who have had enough, and want true change. This time it is not based on sexuality, it is based on diversity, identity and economic politics. Most bisexuals are on their side when it comes to diversity, but our politics are far too diverse to believe in the enforcing of one type. My guess is that much of their angst is created because they are a disposed youth, again Mardi Gras and bigots like Gay and Proud are to blame for this......how can you forget about your youth, they are the future and guess what most of them are not very happy with there elders.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 10:46:10 2000
Zakalwe - I personally agree with most of what you have said, this will unfortunately be used by the bigot scare mongers to show that bisexuals want to destroy gay and lesbian culture, but they are just adults who have not grown up enough to realise that someone elses liberty does not mean their oppression.In answer to your question, "Why now when it begins to start happening do we try to get out of it?!" I have an opinion about this, and it has to do with the main streaming of gay and lesbian culture, you see just like main stream culture the gay and lesbian community has taken on much of the mediocrity that this country seems to thrive on. Where anyone different (because of many reasons) is persecuted and those in power do there best to reflect this attitude to appease the numbers, this in turn justifies bigoted and hateful behaviour which makes it even worse, and so on. My hope for our community is that the leaders have the courage to stand up for what is right, and take the leading role is making our community something special, then we can truly be proud in what we created, instead on emulating what has oppressed us all. Liberty is not earned through oppressing others, in fact while anyone is oppressed none of us is truly liberated. I know these arguments don't make much sense to those that believe liberty is a ghetto and a really cool party, that's why our leaders need to do their best to educate and help *lead* our community, not reflect what is the lowest common denominator.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:04:16 2000
The rantings of Bi & Proud are a perfect exmaple of why bisexuals must be excluded from the SGLMG.There is no positive agenda...just simply aggression, disruption and destruction.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:06:34 2000
Bi & Proud - the gay community is not your community. Wake up to that simple fact.
Btw...I do not hate lesbians, I simply state that women took over what was initially the Gay Mardi Gras and made it the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras and the great organisation it is now!
You will find that the majority of dykes oppose the inclusion of bisexuals too - as all too many have been hassled by bi guys in the past!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:10:50 2000
Panther - thanks for letting us know where you stand, and for being their for bisexuals and for our communities harmony in '95. I really hope you are not a minority, and can have some influence with your social group and other gay men. Again, thank you!
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:12:48 2000
Bi & Proud is anti everything it seems from his comments today ...anti gay, anti lesbian, anti religion ...even anti Australian! The term militant is most apt!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:13:11 2000
Is Gay and Proud correct, do most gay men and lesbians support the exclusion of bisexuals? What is everyones thoughts on this?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:19:57 2000
I have never said anything anti gay, lesbian or religion, again you deal with things through lies. However, I did say I am anti-homophoic.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:22:25 2000
Bi & proud's statement "There is no organised group of bisexuals, trying to disrupt the Mardi Gras parade or any other event"... is simply untrue. The gay press, mainstream media and even police Im told are well aware of possible trouble. Even postings on pinkboard (most likely from Bi & Proud) talk about disrupting MG this year in pursuit of the selfish and misguided bisexual takeover of MG.
MG is not the "queer communities platform to main-stream society" bi & proud. There is no "queer" community, just a bunch of militants revolutionaries who sit up in there publically funded offices above Oxford St!! MG is gay and lesbian not queer or bi...thanks very much.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:23:07 2000
You are just relying on the fact that most people will not be bothered reading my large slabs of writing. I ask all of you before believing the lies and scare mongering Gay and Proud has come up with, to make the effort to read what I have said.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:25:12 2000
Bi & Proud - you're very confused indeed!
Your rantings today ...slag off religion, your previous comments about women are anti dyke and your continued attack on the gay ghetto is anti gay. Although I applaud you for not refuting that you're anti Australian!
This whole takeover attempt of MG itself is anti gay, but of course when you're on the path of destruction you can't see that can you!!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:26:49 2000
Where is your proof that bisexual groups are organising the disruption of the Mardi Gras festival, what a disenfranchised individual does is not under anyone's control. Again scare mongering and lies, don't you think it is time to change your tact, it is getting rather boring.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:29:12 2000
Funny that you make up some lie about police having proof that bisexual groups will be disrupting Mardi Gras. Police are the ones who beat the hell out of us in '78, now you use them to oppress us! Great to see how liberation only means you use the same means of oppression against other minority groups.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:32:37 2000
Again! lies and scare mongering, the use of gossip and pack mentality will only get you so far, most people do actually have a brain for them selves. What previous comments about women? Which of my comments are anti-religious?I just hope people bother to read what I have said instead of believing your lies.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:35:28 2000
Bi & Proud - people will read your writings, but will they understand them? I think not, no one in their right mind will understand why militant bisexuals want to destroy the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. They'll believe it may happen unless bisexuals are excluded though!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:39:08 2000
FYI - I live in the gay ghetto! which is why I understand it so well, hey in fact it is not purely a gay ghetto, their are many oppressed groups who inhabit the area, because it enables them freedom they will not get in other places. It is the mentality that some from the ghetto have taken on that I attack, it is the bigoted and paranoid attitudes that create morons like you. You are so very, very sad!
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:40:06 2000
Bi & Proud adds the police to his list of "anti's" lol.
But surely there are bisexuals in the Police too? That must be a bit much for a revolutionary like you to swallow.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:41:13 2000
Gay and Proud - Answer one more question for me please. Why did you not turn up to the community consultation that Mardi Gras had around this issue? Do you not have the courage of your convictions, or are you just a shit stirrer?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:43:52 2000
That fact that you are Bi & Proud means you do not inhabit a Gay Ghetto. I see you living in your local branch of the Socialist Workers Party actually.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:44:16 2000
As i said before the reason why "ordinary" gays and lesbians do not speak up is fear - of being heckled, belittled and worse. This fear is borne out by your postings.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:45:54 2000
I'm a Revolutionary? Thanks, but the reality is that I am a corporate slave, who drives a sports car, and who currently is looking to buy a house that has enough room for a dungeon/play room. Kind of like you average financially successful leather gay man, the only difference is that I play with women as well. I'm not bad looking either, you may of even tried to pick me up in a bar sometime, unless casual sex is too revolutionary for you....isn't it frightening to think you may of slept with a bisexual! You better run off to the shower right away and wash the filth of you!
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 11:54:56 2000
This 'gay ghetto' thing is getting to me. I grew up in western Syd. and gravitated to eastern Sydney because it was near the beach, work, and Oxford St. I've met some wonderfully sincere, deep and humane people who are some of my closed friends. In fact the only real bad experiences I've had since moving to the east were to do with tourists coming from 'nice' towns like Melbourne and Brisbane looking whatever shallow encounter they could get before they hot-footed it home to the BF!
Give me the 'ghetto' anytime!!!
Bwian - Thu Jan 20 11:55:54 2000
Bi & Proud's comments ... Thu Jan 20 11:54:56 2000 ...of course you are. You're just a socialist worker militant who likes to organise blockades against MG in your spare time aren't you sweetie? lol
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:01:59 2000
ha ha ha....Socialist Workers Party??? How wrong you are! What else have you got wrong? What else has your simple brain thought up?I a more a capitalist then a socialist, in fact I'm quite wealthy, though my politics are hard core around embracing diversity, and not discrimination against people based on gender, sexuality, race, etc....
As I said before, if you fear the left you better go after the queers, after all they get instant membership because most of them are homosexual. Though I would suggest that your energy would be better spent encouraging youth involvement, so they don't feel disenfranchised. Is it my experience that most people do become moderate in their politics as they get older, and I think there would be something wrong if some of our youth were not left wing radicals. Again, you turn to hate, anger and bigotry against anyone who is not exactly like you, don't you realise separatism will only get you so far, you will have to open your eyes to the rest of the world sometime.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:12:31 2000
Bwian - I love the ghetto, that is why I live there. It is the attitude which has develop by some of our bigotted and damaged members that I dispise. Ghettos have their purpose, but when it is used to make someone feel they are the majority so now they can oppress others, something has gone wrong.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:23:43 2000
This bisexual guy is a fruit-loop :)
Just me - Thu Jan 20 12:29:37 2000
Actually I'm more nutty :-) But thanks for calling me a fruit, I feel included now.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:37:25 2000
Yep, the bi guy is crazy, he really thinks that it is about acceptance and other tree hugging hippy crap about equality. The world doesn't work that way mate, it is about strength, you don't have it and we do, so why would we give what limited strength we have to you?
Thu Jan 20 12:44:50 2000
"The membership issue will get resolved one way or another, it's just up to MG to decide whether the gay community comes out of this unscathed or not."
Sun Jan 16 20:09:58 2000 - does this classic comment belong to you Bi & Proud?
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:48:39 2000
Bi & Proud ...is this comment (obviously from you) not a threat?
"What we plan for the time during the festival and what we will be doing come the parade will be determined by whether we feel the issue of bisexual inclusion will be actively pursued, or whether we feel the initial statement by Mardi Gras was just to keep us silent for the festival."
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:50:40 2000
Here's another example of the worthy bisexual cause from Bi & Proud..."The time for "comments" is up. They've had a whole year in which to deal with things and they haven't done anything. It's time for action now and that is all that will be acceptable."
Still supporting bisexual inclusion?
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:53:25 2000
Oh yeh...almost forgot Bi & Proud, here's that example of anti gay violence you posted..."I'd like to send around some homophobic cops around to your place to start beating
the crap out of you".
Still supporting Bisexual inclusion?
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:55:35 2000
and here's another little gem from Bi & Proud "Threats are the only thing Mardi Gras and many gay men and lesbians understand".
Still supporting bisexual inclusion?
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 12:58:25 2000
Bi & Proud - I applaud your campaign as it will only ensure that bisexuals are excluded from the membership of MG. Lets hope this spreads to other gay and lesbian organisations to...how about GLRL, Out FM, Free FM, Star, Cap Q, Pride.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 13:02:13 2000
The first comment was not from me, the second was from me. Still no threat to disrupt Mardi Gras with a blockade or other methods you have accused me of, can you find any where I said I plan to disrupt Mardi Gras? Of course we need to plan what we will do to get attention to our cause, that is how politics work! What the f*ck do you think the Mardi Gras parades since '78 are all about! You are getting even more stupid as the days go on.Ok, I answered your questions, how about you answer mine - Why did you not turn up to the community consultation and voice your opinion? If your opinion represents the majority, what are you afraid of?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 13:04:53 2000
Stop Press! A bisexual women was elected yesterday to the position of Security of Leather Pride, I also hear her partner is male!
Thu Jan 20 13:10:24 2000
More lies Gay and Proud! These threats were written by a gay man, he did tell you a number of times he was gay, but for some reason you refused to accept the fact that there a gay men that don't want to discriminate against others based on sexuality.The last resort of a loser is lies, do you feel that you are losing the argument that much?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 13:14:10 2000
I ask again, why do you not have the courage of your convictions and go public with your opinion? If you are the majority, why are you so afraid to tell everyone you do no want bisexuals as members of Mardi Gras?
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 13:20:07 2000
Hey Gay & Proud, It's been quite amused reading your comments, I have been bothered to read all of Bi & Proud's comments and have tried really hard to see where your allegation come from, but have been unable to. For the record I am a gay man who lives in the ghetto, but I'm sure you will quote me as a bisexual sometime in the future. Oh by the way, sometimes people like you make me ashamed to be a gay man, I wish you would just shut up and go away.
Thu Jan 20 13:33:00 2000
I read all this stuff and find most of what Bi Proud says very offensive. What is the point of threats, you really are a fruit loop as someone said.
Thu Jan 20 14:10:22 2000
I have read it all and cannot find what Bi & Proud has said that it offensive, he just wants the same thing we want, acceptance. I don't think attempting to gain visibility to his cause can be considered a threat, otherwise everything we do, including the Mardi Gras parade could be considered a threat.
Thu Jan 20 14:20:38 2000
Planning demos to destroy mardi gras is offensive.
unhappy - Thu Jan 20 14:23:19 2000
Dean ooooops I mean Bi and Proud you are a busy boy causing trouble again.
Thu Jan 20 14:35:59 2000
I think that the vast bulk of what MG stands for and does is for the greater good and furthers the cause of tollerance generally. I'm overwhelmingly in support for this organisation that has grown up in my own backyard. I have seen (as an occasional MG volunteer)the unsung good that mardigras as an organisation has done. If you can't get MG to do what you want, I imagine its probably because its unpopular. If you are of sufficient conviction, start your own bisexual mardigras!! Dont try to wreck what others have created.
Bwian - Thu Jan 20 14:50:05 2000
Well said ...Bwian - Thu Jan 20 14:50:05 2000 ...again the bisexuals cannot answer this basic point you make, why not start your own MG? (not that anyone would bother to watch such boredom...lol)
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 15:06:26 2000
After reading through all of your comments Gay & Proud a number of things become obvious, the most glaring of which is that if this were 1978 you would be one of the right-wing Liberal voting closets who would be tut tutting about the nasty militant homosexuals attracting unnecessary attention and behaving in an 'unAustralian' fashion by marching down the street. Your stupidity is boundless. Please, come out and stand for the Mardi Gras board this year. Every gay man and lesbian deserves an opportunity to hear your vision of a "gay" One Nation.
Queer and disgusted - Thu Jan 20 15:31:55 2000
I have already answered you questions, here is the answer again, I just copied from above - The reason why should not have to start the Bi Mardi Gras or what ever else you want to call it is simple. Mardi Gras is the queer communities platform to main-stream society, the playing field for this is totally taken up by Mardi Gras, there is no more room for such an event, so to exclude us is to exclude us from the right to fight for our liberation. I'm sure you will disagree with this, and make up some lie to prove your point, but those are the facts. The second reason is that we were there is 78, I know for a fact that there were bisexuals in 78 and have been involved in the organisation ever since, again you will refute this and make up some stupid lie or try and change history just like main-stream society has done to all of us. If you had your way, Lesbians would not have anything to do with Mardi Gras either, you had the courage to mention your hate towards lesbians and how they took over Mardi Gras in a previous post, are you now too afraid to voice this opinion again, will the "militant" lesbians get you? (sarcasm).
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 15:40:09 2000
that's not an answer its the same barmy bisexual clap trap from your militant manifesto!!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 15:43:09 2000
hey Queer & Disgusted the current MG board support my view perfectly, not every gay man or dyke is a loony left wing miltant like you. Lots of them are actually right wing too.
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 15:45:29 2000
This is not Dean, but that is a case in point. Bisexuals who have done a lot for the queer community, will react in all sorts of negative ways to the discrimination they are receiving from Mardi Gras and bigots like Gay and Proud. This has nothing to do with the bisexual movement, and if we are threatening you by making you aware of the dangerous situation Mardi Gras is in by discriminating against its own community members, then you are even more stupid then I first thought.
Bi & Proud - Thu Jan 20 15:54:48 2000
Ok Gay & Proud, you were wrong about the sexuality of Transgender people, you were wrong about Bi and Proud's political leanings, you were wrong about Mardi Gras being a gay men's organisation until the "dykes took over". Why should we believe you when you say that the Mardi Gras board supports your view? I really find it hard to believe that anyone who has spent anytime thinking about the issue would take on your bigotted Gay One Nation point of view. I like Bi and Proud want to know why you were not at the community consultation, I was there and did not hear you speak out against the "militant bisexuals" and their "militant manifesto", or were you too busy saving gay culture from "militant lesbians" or "militant queers" or "militant Asians" or "militant feminist" or "militant sports fans" for that matter? You are doing nothing to add to Mardi Gras, except to spread hate and intolerance, you make me ashamed to call my self gay.
Thu Jan 20 16:22:23 2000
Can someone from the MG board make a statement that refutes Gay and Proud's statement?
Thu Jan 20 16:25:07 2000
In reply to whoever added a comment on Thu Jan 20 16:22:23 2000 (Bi & Proud by any chance?) - wake me up when you wake up!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 16:39:45 2000
and you've all assumed Im not on the board already!! so many assumptions from those who know so little...lol
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 16:41:01 2000
Aren't the rest of us lucky that the entire community wasn't made up of Gay & Proud types in 1978. They'd all be working from 'inside' like all those gutless Liberal Party fags and One Nation queens. Let's hear you views on a few other issues like race and class and women in the workforce Gay & Proud. I'll lay odds you make the League of Nations look progressive ; )
Thu Jan 20 17:47:55 2000
You've assumed Im a white middle class Aussie haven't you ...you little revolutionary!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 20:43:06 2000
Just a quick question ...what's the obsession with party politicising lesbian and gay issues?
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 20 20:44:51 2000
and there's your answer! bingo.
Thu Jan 20 21:53:18 2000
This whole bisexual debate is really strange. I wouldnt want to join a club where I clearly wasn't welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thu Jan 20 23:32:13 2000
Clearly? One brain-dead fascist monkey don't make no show.
Thu Jan 20 23:45:28 2000
Speaking from experience - bi's identify more with being straight than being gay/queer or whatever. I am gay, proud and happy with my life, while he is still bi and questioning his life. It is his choice though to remain in the suburbs with the wife and kids and ..... hell, he misses the parties now that she no longer allows him to go. I have moved on with my life and have never been happier. As far as I am concerned, keep it a Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.
Glad I'm Gay - Fri Jan 21 0:07:50 2000
The whole gay married debate is really strange. I wouldn't want to join an institution where I clearly wasn't welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fri Jan 21 0:14:48 2000
Glad I'm Gay, did you get dumped sweatie? You poor dear......life must go on.
Fri Jan 21 0:19:15 2000
Yeah - life sure does goes on - and for the better without a bi b/f. I dumped him after years of me 'understanding' his situation. Turns out the wife eventually pulls the strings on a bi-guy. Reminds him of his kids and responsibilities. All I am saying is that is my experience with a bi b/f was good when it was good, but bad when he was made to make a choice. Even now, he says he is gay but does not want to lose his marriage, kids. job etc. Am over it as far as bi's go. Make a choice for yourselves guys. She even came to MG party and could not comprehend why she was there. Her husband is gay - but they have chosen their life so they can mow lawns, raise kids and get on with it. I have gone on - and am far better off :)
Glad I'm Gay - Fri Jan 21 1:51:41 2000
If he says he's gay then he is. He's just a sad closet. Being married doesn't make you bi.
Fri Jan 21 6:29:35 2000
That is it - a sad gay closet. Funny how bis get blamed for everything, arnt we in this mess because us gay boys decided to blame them for the "straights at parties situation". Don't you think it is time we grew up and took responsibility for our own actions.
Fri Jan 21 8:51:55 2000
1) What is the difference between a relationship where your partner goes out and has sex with a man or a women? It it still either an open relationship or cheating. You are still either accepting or jealous/hurt/scared/insecure.
2) Stop generalising. You are all saying "all this" and "all that". Every human is unique. You can't generalise about sexual attraction and communnity membership and where people live.
Panther - Fri Jan 21 8:55:48 2000
People choose the closet because of oppression, regardless of whether he is gay or bi, it is oppression that has forced him into this situation, blaming all bisexuals for this, doesn't do anything to fight this oppression. Would it not be in our interest to make it easier for bisexual to come out and live outside the closet, the more people who are out and proud, the better it is for all of us. I tell you I would be very careful about coming out as bi to the gay community, knowing just how intolerant us gay men and lesbian can be.
Fri Jan 21 8:58:23 2000
When it comes to sexuality, I dont think any two people are alike. Ve vary by degrees from each other, and we all change over time through experience. I have nothing against bisexuals, str8s or people with two heads for that matter. To cover the whole spectrum of 'queer humanity' in the MG title would obviously impractical. My experience is that MG as an organisation is more inclusive than any other association I've ever had with any other organisation. They have forged links with indigenous australians, the asian community, the non-hearing.... the list goes on.
Slinging threats to disrupt the MG parade because you dont feel included sounds plain childish to me. Get involved and change it from within if you think thats what people want.
And I dont think gays and lesbians are intolerant. Its just that for one night in the year... our night.... we want to be free to party with our fellow gays and lesbians.
Bwian - Fri Jan 21 9:47:50 2000
Nice sentiments Bwian, but the fact is that most of the "gay and proud" bigots probably never leave the ghetto for any reason and spend their entire lives with other gay males. The rest of us have grown up.
Fri Jan 21 10:02:27 2000
Bwian there is more to MG then a party, in fact the party is a "fund raising" event for our community organisation. You really are confused about what purpose MG was created for, I'm not saying that you being only interested in the party is wrong, but why do you feel you can exclude others that *you* don't feel belong, just so you can have a really cool party? I'm sorry but you really are a very petty individual, and lets face it, you don't go to party with lesbians, you go to party with other gay men, and if you had your way lesbians wouldn't be included either, but that misogynist and bigoted issue is history.
Fri Jan 21 10:16:42 2000
What is the relationship between Mardi Gras and the "community"? When people talk about 'Mardi Gras', what do they mean? Is it the festival? The party? What role do these community cultural institutions play in our sense of identity or sexuality, our place in culture and society as a whole? Who 'owns' these insitutions, who has a stake in them? What is important to proponents of inclusion or exclusion? What are their fears, their hopes? What is Mardi Gras to you?
sideburns - Fri Jan 21 10:45:04 2000
Mardi Gras to me is the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender voice to the main-stream society through the parade, it is also a celebration of being proud of who we are and a platform through the festival that helps us further develop our culture/s. The party is mainly a fund raiser, and damn fun one at that!
mick - Fri Jan 21 11:06:45 2000
Why does the militant homosexual agenda want to destroy our god fearing Christian society, don't they realise that threats like these will get them no where. They should stop being so childish and grow up.
Fri Jan 21 11:56:56 2000
I believe the above is meant sarcastically to show how stupid and oppressive comments like Bwain and Gay and Proud really are.
Fri Jan 21 12:00:14 2000
It is? I must be missing something
Fri Jan 21 12:24:02 2000
I believe the above comments clearly highlight how little bisexuals understand about the lesbian and gay community. Just in case you care (which I doubt as it seems the militant bi's posting here only care about their selfish agenda to destroy MG)...Im not middle class, don't live in the ghetto, have more female friends than male ones, and wait for it ...yes even bisexual ones!!! Now that's a shock isn't it for you revolutionary types!!! I don't know why when I just voice an honest and open opinion Im forced to justify my life!!! The fact this happens on a relatively anonymous forum like Pinkboard shows just why so few lesbians and gay men are prepared to speak up in favour of keeping MG lesbian and gay at the various forums etc. All I hear here from the militant bisexuals and their misguided g&l bed mates are threats to disrupt Mardi Gras cos they can't get their own way through the democratic process...is that bigoted? Anyway ...why would you want to take part in an organisation that treated you like crap? (Your assumption not mine!)
Gay & Proud - Fri Jan 21 12:29:00 2000
Mick your comments on - Fri Jan 21 11:06:45 2000 - who cares what it is for you, the fact remains the SGLMG is not and never has been a bisexual organisation. Its lesbian and gayness is its strength.
Gay & Proud - Fri Jan 21 12:40:56 2000
you are such a bigot gay and proud, and I will say that with out a worry, you see we call others bigots that discriminate against us based on sexuality, so if you do the same you will be called one also. Feel free to voice your opinion, but please name your behaviour and opinion for what it is, pure bigotry.
Fri Jan 21 12:51:14 2000
if you are not a white boy and have bi and lesbian friend I am the president of MG. Your track record of telling the truth is rather poor, may be it is time choose a different sig, so that people will not write off everything you say as a lie.
Fri Jan 21 12:54:56 2000
The reasoned comments from Bwian - Fri Jan 21 9:47:50 2000 - summ up perefectly how many lesbian and gays feel on this issue. Yet again he is labelled a b