Pinkboard's SGLMG Graffiti Wall 8

We could use alot less people like you in our community.

I bet you don't even know what the term inclusion means anyway

P.S. Yes you are a nobody
gay_jono@hotmail.com - Wed Sep 8 13:33:53 1999

Defamation law (like most areas of law) is complex, and determining whether or not a comment is defamatory is not necessarily an easy task. There have been cases where the defendant genuinely believed (or genuinely did not realise) that a comment was defamatory. Similarly, there have been actions brought where plaintiffs believed they were defamed, because what was said about them hurt their feelings.

We have a situation where litigation has been threatened. We do not know whether the threat will be carried out. The very fact that a threat of litigation has been made appears to have been enough to discourage people from expressing their views on this board - it would seem that people are not prepared to take even the remotest chance that what they post will not ultimately end up before the courts.

Also, Panther, if you have not already done so, I suggest you seek good legal advice regarding your own obligations.
Thu Sep 16 8:42:07 1999

And yes, people do vote with their feet. I wonder how the 20,000 MG party-goers voted on the nights of the rallies when there were only 2,000 turned up. I guess the 90% of the MG party-boys voted with their feet then too.
Let's wake up to ourselves please - Fri Sep 17 11:28:28 1999

Are only the remarks that could get you into trouble, the only ones you could be bothered to remove?
Fri Sep 17 14:26:32 1999

F***en filthy faggots.
Mon Sep 20 10:59:10 1999

Hey if we can be mysoginistic and call women "fish", then by all rights we should be allowed to be homophobic and called faggots "faggots".
Mon Sep 20 11:03:48 1999

It is so easy to say "well they're not taking responsibility so why should I?" but at the end of the day kids are still dying. And considering those youths used to be me and you I think we should take responsibility now and not bother waiting for others to act.
Tue Sep 21 10:26:46 1999

Any other Star Trek fans also interested in being involved contact me so we can start getting some ideas together to mark MG2000.
Tue Sep 21 10:30:28 1999

And besides if you are going to take the mikey out of anyone you should be taking the mikey out of the MG board, after all they're all (supposedly) the elite of our community and they fell for that throw-a-pink-feather-boah-and-an-ABBA-song-into-your-routine- trick too.
Thu Oct 14 12:45:19 1999

1. Complimentary tickets to many of the Committee and associated people were cut for Sleaze Ball. Sleaze Ball is a charity and these people will support it whether they are comps or not because they truly believe in Mardi Gras. If they don't, then one can fairly ask if they are only in it for what they can get out of it. I hope the Board shows similar restraint when it comes to the issue of the MG period committees and volunteers getting comps to the 2000 MG Party (remembering that this Party has to maximise profit for the running of the Company and any Cash Reserve philosophy that may be being considered). A uniform system of a discounted price based on some pre-determined community service requirement should be put in place. Only 'x' number of these tickets would be available on a first in best dressed basis. Far too many marshalls or committee members get their 'cheap' tickets and then on-sell them at an outrageous profit on, or in the case of the committee members, before the night - this rorting of the system should be stopped. At least that way, the Board will find out who really cares;

2. The prescence of MG Medical at the Frisky Party. As probably the only non-political (or less, at least) Committee associated with MG, the public profile of MG can only be enhanced when these dedicated men and women are out and about providing their immense talents for us. Oh, and before the "Oh, but Frisky's a commercial party" crap starts - Frisky also provides a very 'queer' safe space to party and makes regular and predictable donations to the Lobby - lots of people make money everyday and give nothing back to our community. Yes, I'm partial, but if I didn't applaud the belief behind the event, I wouldn't be a part of it.

So, it's nice to see that some good ideas are being enacted by the Board. I think it is important to remember that New Magic ran a campaign about progressive change. Despite the election result, certain members of the Board have embraced some of the good ideas to come out of the campaign (even if these processes will travel slower). Let's hope this maturity continues and we all work in a similar direction (as difficult as that is for our community).

A few comments to help distract the discussion away from the rubbish of above.
D Hartley - Sat Oct 16 14:12:47 1999

You sad, sad little man. It is obvious that your lack of signing against your comment is only matched by the manner by which you crawl up the backside of the people that give you comps.
Mon Oct 18 16:49:30 1999

Remember 1978?

If you don't then maybe you'll remember 1998 when MG (almost the same board that's in now - just with a few of their cliche thrown in) rammed it down our throats about how they are an organisation fighting for our rights, that they are the spirit of the gay and lesbian community but in the meantime didn't actually do anything other than talk.

If MG just came out and said "Hey, we are no longer a political movement, we are just arts festival organisers" then I could accept all that has happened regarding their excluding bisexuals. And I would even compliment them on the fine arts festival that they do run.

But they don't say that. They keep on telling us about the proud tradition of MG, how much history MG has, how much it continues to fight for our equality etc, etc, etc - while they go and exclude a whole portion of our community for the insanely stupid reason that they like to sleep with either sex.

They're just hypocrites.
Tue Oct 19 12:14:06 1999

Despite all the Pollyannas out there who piously hope and bleat on about "unity" and "working together as a community" and "healing" those divisions are real, they are deep, they are bitter and they are probably irreconcilable. And David McLachlan, the Jeff Kennett of Mardi Gras - is one of the reasons why they are as real and bitter and deep as they are - and ultimately irreconcilable. Despite all his "magnanimous" talk of "heeding the message", he has revealed himself as being incapable of healing, or understanding and dealing with dissent as Jeff Kennett. And so the divisions will continue.
Tue Oct 19 21:25:32 1999

And if you think that I'm taking things to the extreme and have no basis for my assumption then take a read at all the previous editions of this board and try counting the number of times a gay man has made comments that MG hasn't performed on the account that there was a female as president at the time.

See that's the problem with the current exclusionary attitude, it slowly creeps it way along till it finally gets the poeple who supported it in the first place.
What's that old say?..."First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the homosexuals, but I wasn't a homosexual so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the blacks, the women, the handicapped. Eventually they came for me, but by that time there was no-one left to speak up for me. - Thu Oct 21 11:57:34 1999

Hope to God (or whoever) that you are wrong.
Fri Oct 22 10:52:32 1999

Remember it is these same people who will be voting on who will comprise the board at the next election. It is these same people who voted to keep a board which excludes people who are a part of our community and give so much to it.
Fri Oct 22 13:05:38 1999

But instead everyone is just focused on having this illusionary power. It is worse than high school kids wanting to be in the "in" crowd and being prepared to dump on their classmates and former friends in order to get "in".

But at least they have an excuse in that they are still just high school kids.

But maybe alot of the members of our community are still there mentally.
Thu Oct 28 15:43:51 1999

Don't worry it's nothing illegal that they are planning. Though you will probably wish it was because at least then the gay community won't come off looking like the arrogant snobs that we have become.

They are simply going to take the issue of bisexual exclusion to the mainstream media in a big way and then MG and the rest of gay community will have the scrutiny of the mainstream media and heterosexual community upon them. And we will come off second best.

But we shouldn't complain because we have brought this upon ourselves.
Sat Oct 30 7:50:58 1999

I hope this happens because her indication is that the review will cover the full range of issues including inclusiveness, the low women's membership numbers, the "party ticket" membership situation, youth membership, etc.

This is not an issue that one forum can solve so it would be wise to start the process sooner then later. With Ilana also looking after Fair Day, perhaps some delegating should be undertaken post-haste to ensure that the membership issue doesn't become the sole domain of the bisexual community through some misguided unilateral public campaign next year.

The threat of public action will not force the Board to do anything - it has never worked before. You can only hope that the promises made at both the AGM, and the subsequent meeting with New Magic and the Bi Networks are honoured.
Mon Nov 1 16:44:55 1999

Sydney 68.14

Wentworth 60.34

Grayndler 64.98

Kingsford-Smith 55.84

Lesbians and gay men living outside these areas may have been among the minority who voted "yes", or more likely, voted yes/no in the same proportions as the rest of the community.

There are implications in this for the gay and lesbian community and gay and lesbian activists. That is the clear divide between the inner-city, eastern suburbs and the north shore (where safe liberal seats voted "yes") and suburban sydney, particularly western and southern sydney. Significantly, no Labor seat west of Lowe (based on Strathfield and Drummoyne) voted "yes".

Others might like to ponder the implications of this for further advances in gay and lesbian rights, support for Mardi Gras etc
Sun Nov 7 9:21:13 1999

Mon Nov 15 10:29:10 1999

If living legend Cindy Pastel of Pricilla fame and SGLMG Hall of Fame member Kimberly O'Sullivan can come out as bi, how can any of us be so sure that it will not happen to them....the lines get even blurrier.
it will not happen to me :-) - Wed Nov 17 19:36:31 1999

At our meeting, it was indicated that there would be a complete overall of all membership issues, includign youth, associate, sexuality etc., areas. It would be advisable, especially if there appears to be a group seeking to damage the 2000 Festival with a public protest, to start the process sooner than later.

We look forward to your prompt response and consultation.
New Magic (No, we haven't gone away!) - Fri Nov 19 10:25:50 1999

Just like gays and lesbians have had history changed to make them invisible, bisexuals have to constantly deal with the same thing, usually with dismissive statements such as "it was just a phase" or they were "confused". Do you know how insulting this term is perhaps homosexuality was the phase Michael was going through. (By the way Cindy's name is Rictchie Finger, as some of know these little things, because we have spoken to him about )
Fri Nov 19 17:40:43 1999

At Wed Nov 17 11:57:54 1999 you said "These (the articles of association) clearly and legally spell out membership requirements...these are different for people who apply and tick bisexual.....This does not mean they are refused membership...".

What the articles do say is that anyone who doesn't tick the gay/homo box needs to prove to the board that they they have contributed to the G & L community and towards the ideals of MG (ie. same-sex relationships rights).

Now there is not much of a problem so far, the problem happened when the board, ie. yourself and your 13 other colleagues, decided Unanimously that two certain men who were bisexual hadn't contributed to the G & L community despite all their references from leaders in our community organisations (ie. GL Rights Lobby) that fight for the ideals of MG (ie. same sex relationships rights).

And despite the fact that, ever since then, there has been a growing discontent with the board's decision, to the point that a whole separate ticket ran for board positions (something that has never happened before in the history of MG), and despite the fact that more than a third of voting members voted for the protest ticket, we still have not heard a word about what is happening regarding those issues.

I realise MG has got problems with being able to communicate with it's members but a simple press release to SSO every so often wouldn't go astray

I think you should know that alot of people, (bisexual, gay and lesbian too) are very upset about the current situation that the board created and when MG 2000 comes along a few people start kicking up a protest, alot of people will be joining them. (remember 1/3 of the people voted for New Magic)

I suggest you give some kind of indication to the GLBT (as opposed to the 80's G & L) community thru SSO that this is being looked at and that some kind of progress is being made.

Jono - Mon Nov 22 0:17:23 1999

Do you reckon that people were actually attempting to show the current board what they thought about their outdated ideas regarding membership issues?
Just a thought - Mon Nov 22 0:36:27 1999

It is the Board's responsibility via the paid staff to notify the membership of reviews or proposed changes to the rules. Not every member has access to the SSO or Q. You must inform the membership as a whole if you intend a review of the membership. What, another selective meeting? Mybe, there were some members of New Magic there - so what! Why did you not, as Secretary, inform the membership as a whole of the intention to review the membership guidleines.

Once again, we, the members, will have presented to us a pre-prepared set of changes without input. There again, I guess you only need Richard and Larry to agree to ensure its passage through a SGM. The Board plus R & L - that's 16 out of 8000 - how terribly democratic. Hope the bisexuals go for it.
Had a gut full of the lies and diversionary tactics - Mon Nov 22 19:12:51 1999

Ilana, please let us know who is part of this inner group of pre-review reviewing. As a New Magic Candidate who expressed great interest in the broadening of membership categories, I certainly wasn't consulted. I do, however, acknowledge your very broad-based commitment to change at our collective meeting on Sept 14.

I think half the problem with the clap-trap on this wall relates to the lack of accurate information coming out of MG. I noticed above you mentioned New Magic people involved - that's fine, but let the wider membership know which particular people are part of this. From your own words last Friday - "I know 'New Magic' has not gone away - in fact at a meeting this week to look at reviewing membership there were members of 'New Magic'".

Just keeping people informed is a major step forward. I'm sure Panther doesn't mind this wall being used productively (for a change) for some positive good progressive news of the reform that you are undertaking.

Good luck - trying to please all the people all of the time will be the challenge of the year.
Damon H - Tue Nov 23 15:08:58 1999

Couple of ideas:

1. Introduce a two-tier membership fee structure with the full membership at $40/Year having voting rights etc.; and a "social" membership at, say, $25/Year entitled to 2-Only Party Tickets -(sexuality or community involvement requirements a must for full membership category but perhaps a little more lenient for the 'social' category);

2. Youth Membership at the "social" membership rate encouraging young people to get involved - very limited sexuality restrictions on this category - how many 18 Year Olds know exactly what their sexuality is - Some 30-50 Year Olds have conflicts in this department, so let's not discriminate against our youth;

This is just a starting point for discussion. The present situation where only 10% of the membership care enough to vote at an AGM needs addressing. It is not necessarily MG's or the Board's fault. They, the majority, are only members for one reason, and it is about time that we all accepted that.

Hope this starts some interesting discussion. And yes, MC, I know you don't agree with #1 above, but you get that.............

PS. People speaking on behalf of the group that gave them status without consultation is a big no-no. Naughty Mordred.
Wed Nov 24 9:50:18 1999

Are people so afraid that automatic acceptance of bisexuals will be voted down based on its own merits? I think it is important for acceptance of bisexuals to be clear, and not mixed up around other issues. If the members of SGLMG want (or don't want) bisexuals as automatic members, they should be very clear about this.

Are there any reasons to disagree with this analysis, considering how contentious bisexual membership is?
Wed Nov 24 14:04:29 1999

Queer (for want of, perhaps, a better word) seemed to offer that place between the mainstreams, be it gay/lesbian, heterosexual or bisexual. It seems like we are back to fighting for the right to define ourselves, rather than what was, to my mind, one of the promises offered by the "queer" sensibility of the early to mid '90s: the right *not* to define ourselves and to be accepted (and in return to accept) whatever our bent, or not, is.

Probably as we, the glbt communities, work though the current bi debate we'll find our way back to a version of "queer", or whatever we end up calling it, which can begin to be applied to the wider communities. We need a vision that somehow looks further than the immediate, and that is meaningful to young people growing up in a world that increasingly seems to accept us more than we seem to accept ourselves...

...All this yada yada coming of course from the comfort of living in the inner city of Sydney, but that said, it does mean that we are in a unique position to push forward and be as out and noisy and demanding as we can to achieve more groundbreaking things.
pj - yes, an eternal and overly passionate optimist :) - Wed Nov 24 22:11:08 1999

Mordred - Wed Nov 24 20:46:16 1999

Larry, sorry Mordred, is it reasonable to take such an arrogant stand over any issue?

Does this not put you into exactly the same category that you 'fought' so hard against this year?

Is it not time for a change in the elitist mentality and philosophy?

Why have you, individually, gone out of your way to alienate the people that funded your public stand this year, namely the Darlo & Balmain connections - those very few people spent in the order of $10,000 on a campaign to help make Mardi Gras a better place. A friend, who was a candidate could only praise you to me during the campaign, but now............ one wonders what he thinks!

Oh well, guess we got what we deserved! Were not you one who spoke so strongly against New Magic individuals getting involved with Committees and trying to help the organisation from within? This course, to some, seem logical - to you, it seemed defeatist and futile. Consistency seems to be a very, very lacking quality aroung our beloved Mardi Gras, whether in power or just as an aspirant. Let's hope the Board can see through your deceptiveness. The issue of membership should not rest on your, or Richard's shoulders - it is a matter for the Board and, in particular, the Secretary who seems to be handling this matter, to take to the membership. Let's hope the membership have the wisdom to follow their own conscience.
Kevin G - Wed Nov 24 22:57:55 1999

I have subsequently been invited to join such a working group, and consistent with my position at that meeting, I have accepted the invitation. Another person who supported the New Magic campaign is also part of that group. As far as I am concerned, I am there as an independent individual, and not as a representative of New Magic (which incidently has not met since our meeting with Mardi Gras Board).

I am aware that one person in New Magic is most upset that I didn't inform him of my invitation, or seeking his permission or approval before I agreed to take part. I wasn't aware that I was obliged to do so. So, tough! I also find it ironic that he should be critical given that he showed the greatest self-interest during the months before the MG campaign.

The fact that I have agreed to be part of this group does not mean I have gone over to the dark side, or that I hope to worm my way onto the MG Board.

Nor does it mean I am sufficiently self-aware to know that there is no way that is going to happen. Nor does it mean I have changed my views about certain members of the current Board or their associates.

But with the failure of New Magic at the polls, and with absolutely no sign that anyone involved in New Magic is seriously interested in reviving it, this working group is now the only game in town as far as any chance of achieving constitutional reform within Mardi Gras is concerned. It would be foolish and arrogant of me not to participate in it.

And I am prepared to approach this in good faith and with an open mind. If it turns out that I am wasting my time, I will withdraw and publicly state why. Given the discussions that have taken place so far, I believe that my need to do this is highly unlikely.
Larry Galbraith - Thu Nov 25 9:01:40 1999

My recollection is that at a couple of New Magic gatherings after the AGM, I predicted that at least one (if not more) New Magic candidates would be on the Board within 12 months. People may interpret that prediction as they wish. Any objections I might have had (and still have) about people becoming involved with Mardi Gras committees has more to do with their motives, and the motives of people who may coopt them.

The group discussing membership issues is not a formal mardi gras committee, it is a working group. Being on it does not require me to give up the views I articulated during the election campaign, and as far as I am concerned, I don't believe my personal integrity has been compromised.

Since people within New Magic have learned of my membership of this group, I have been accused of arrogance, a lack of manners, being deceptive and being bought off. If people want to think that, it's up to them. As far as I am concerned, however, the people who really do know me will understand why I have agreed to be part of this group, and they are the only people who really count.
Larry Galbraith - Thu Nov 25 20:44:31 1999

"The minutes of that meeting should bear this out - if they ever appear."

This has been interpreted as an attack on two individuals in New Magic. It was not intended as such. Everyone in New Magic should bear collective responsibility for the lack of minutes from our meeting with Mardi Gras and our failure to communicate with Mardi Gras as we said we would.

I also wrote:

"I am aware that one person in New Magic is most upset that I didn't inform him of my invitation, or seeking his permission or approval before I agreed to take part."

In this I relied totally on hearsay, which is always a mistake. I did not bother to contact the person concerned to ascertain whether he had actually expressed the views etc being attributed to him. This was also a mistake. Instead I posted:

"I also find it ironic that he should be critical given that he showed the greatest self-interest during the months before the MG campaign."

This comment was unfair and unjustified and I now freely retract it and apologise to the person concerned.
Larry Galbraith - Fri Nov 26 10:20:06 1999

PS2. Kevin G - If you genuinely have concerns about my participation in the Mardi Gras working group, you can discuss them with me. Email me on ljg@zipworld.com.au, identify who you are and I'll let you have my phone number and we can talk. The same goes for the anonymous poster on Thu Nov 25 9:28:45 1999 and Had a gut full of the lies and diversionary tactics - Mon Nov 22 19:12:51 1999.
Larry G. - Fri Nov 26 10:28:26 1999

From everything I've seen of their contributions they more than contributed.

Seems that isn't enough.

Maybe next time they should try and wear the 'right' clothes. Or wear whatever fragrance is currently 'in'. Or have a more 'hip' hairstyle, or maybe they just need to be seen at the 'right' parties.
Sick of waiting for MG excuses for the mistakes - Sun Nov 28 23:49:06 1999

PS. The offer to talk remains open.
Larry Galbraith ljg@zipworld.com.au - Mon Nov 29 10:55:19 1999

My apologies for not replying to your 4 Page letter immediately. One does work for a living and had other things to do that rated a little more importance. My apologies if you're in a "tiz". My comments to you were raised after receiving concerns from various people associated with New Magic. I bcc'd to others within the group as a sign of keeping the discussion group open and allowing others to comment as they felt required. You have, or had, this full email listing during the election campaign and are more than capable of communicating with the group in general whenever you feel like it.

Please refrain from using Pink Board to personally spank me for not being at your beckoned call - it is just that sort of crap that I thought, maybe mistakenly, that you frowned on so strongly when Richard and others reacted to the very strong, nasty, and unsigned remarks over the mid-year period.

Larry, you also have a telephone that can be utilised. Keep well and active - Mardi Gras needs you!
Damon H - Mon Nov 29 14:44:44 1999

I guess that the post further up the wall (Thu Oct 21 11:57:34 1999 ) that quoted the old saying "First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the homosexuals, but I wasn't a homosexual so I didn't speak up.....Eventually they came for me, but by that time there was no-one left to speak up for me " was correct.

I guess we didn't realise that we'd be so far up the list though.

Maybe this will finally knock some sense into those gay purists.

Time to realise that bisexuals, gay men and lesbians are all part of the same community regardless of the name of an increasingly irrelevant and self-deluded corporation - Tue Nov 30 23:59:27 1999

I can only say that you have been contacted by senior members of New Magic - as I am not one, I kept my comments to you and the group by email. Your attitude towards at least one of these people was arrogant, to say the least. You have been asked to send emails around convening a meeting - this has not happened. You have been in contact with the New Magic Secretary - or you at least asked for his phone number last week. When the gathering of 'souls' are called together legitimately, or by the duly-elected Board, or staff on instructions, then I'll bother replying.

I was warned that you could get a little possessive and domineering. I must have had my head up my bum during the campaign because I was actually charmed by your constructive input and work. Gee, and most people think I am a monster in the making!

Time for you to stop using this, and other walls (you know which ones), to push your unilaterally-based views. Try using the methodology of communication with more than a handful of members and the world will be a better place.

Finally, you know my telephone number and I am one of the very busy people who do care about MG but not individual agendas. Keep the agendas away from threats of "if I block anything, it will not get up at a Special or Annual General Meeting" and concentrate on working honestly with Ilana, the Board, and the other working group individuals, to give MG a better constitution regarding membership.
Damon H - Wed Dec 1 10:07:04 1999

-I can only say that you have been contacted by senior members of New Magic

Really and who might they be? I suggest you have been misinformed.

-as I am not one,

Being Treasurer in the initial period, a person who attended most meetings and was a candidate does not make you a senior member?

-I kept my comments to you and the group by email.

Really? So someone else has been using your name, your style and your ideas on the pinkboard?

-Your attitude towards at least one of these people was arrogant, to say the least.-You have been asked to send emails around convening a meeting - this has not happened.

By whom was I asked? When? When was this to be done by. This is the first I am aware that this was expected of me.

-You have been in contact with the New Magic Secretary.

Is this a crime? Yes, after he phoned me about a matter totally unrelated to Mardi Gras or New Magic, (when in fact I told him - in passing - about my being invited to join the membership group) and again after I learned about your activities.

- - or you at least asked for his phone number last week.

Is there nothing you and Michael keep from each other?

- When the gathering of 'souls' are called together legitimately

Which souls? What gathering are you talking about?

- , or by the duly-elected Board, or staff on instructions, then I'll bother replying.

What are you talking about? I presume this is a reply in part to the email I sent you earlier this morning. Why you have chosen to reply to me on the Pinkboard, and not directly is beyond me - unless of course your goal is to maintain the public controversy which you yourself have created. It seems however thatr your reply to my emails seem to be dependent on an assumption that some vague, unexplained event may or may not occur.

- I was warned that you could get a little possessive and domineering.

About what? By whom?

-I must have had my head up my bum during the campaign because I was actually charmed by your constructive input and work.Gee, and most people think I am a monster in the making!

Now, why would they think that?!

-Time for you to stop using this

Oh, I see. It's okay for you to continue to have a go at me, but I'm not to respond. Is that it?

-, and other walls (you know which ones)

Which ones? I don't read any other walls apart from this one, let alone contribute to them.

-, to push your unilaterally-based views.What unilaterally-based views?

_Try using the methodology of communication with more than a handful of members

Do you mean I should phone them? See my comments on this in the email I sent to you this morning.

the world will be a better place.

This saccarine sentiment is totally unconvincing given your activities over the past week.

-Finally, you know my telephone number

As you know mine, and as you knew mine before you first decided to launch into print, both publicly and privately

- and I am one of the very busy people

Not so busy that you can't still write emails, phone others, take phone calls from others and generally stoke the fires of dissension.

who do care about MG

- we all care about Mardi Gras

-but not individual agendas.

Except, it seems, your own.

Keep the agendas away from threats of "if I block anything

The fact that I can block anything is a myth. I may have the ability to stand up at a public meeting and present an argument that may or may not be persuasive, but that's the only "power" I have. And I'm not the only person who is capable of doing that, as you well know.

- it will not get up at a Special or Annual General Meeting

Nothing will get up at a general meeting unless the required majority of members vote for it.

- and concentrate on working honestly with Ilana, the Board, and the other working group individuals,

How I work with Ilana and the others is up to me, and up to them to judge. I really don't need your gratuitous advice on how I should conduct myself

- to give MG a better constitution regarding membership.

But of course. I wouldn't be willing to be part of this process, and put up with the illinformed, mean-spirited flack I have had to put up with over the past week if I didn't have that as a goal.

PS> I realise that these exchanges may be boring, (or perhaps even diverting and entertaining) for other readers of this wall, but I have no choice if this is the way others wish to communicate with me.
Larry Galbraith - Wed Dec 1 12:02:00 1999

As a guide these are some of the ideas we would like you to consider:

Why do people join SGLMG - do people join for different reasons?

Ilana Kaplin, SGLMG - Thu Dec 2 8:52:55 1999

Should people have to meet certain criteria to join? If so, what should the criteria be?

there are also a number of broader questions to keep in mind when you think about membership. These include:

What kind of organisation do you believe SGLMG is and/ or should be? What should SGLMG expect of its members? what do you expect from the mebership process?

thank you
Ilana Kaplin - Thu Dec 2 8:57:00 1999

Why does the general public believe that bisexuals are already a part of Mardi Gras? (Cannot wait to inform them otherwise, think I will wait till the festival when the media attention is just right.)

Why do homosexuals enjoy a better legal status then bisexuals, despite there being bisexuals beaten on the streets in '78, and them being involved in the organisations growth ever since?

Why has Mardi Gras turned into an organisation that only promotes the 2 majority groups, gay and lesbian? (We all know that is what majorities do, at the expense of minorities)

By the way Illana, your questions sound like they came from that middle-class anglo white boy David, who wouldn't have one single idea about oppression except being a gay lawyer from a catholic backgroup, who is trying to get ahead. Guess what, most of us have had more dealt to us in life!
Thu Dec 2 9:23:38 1999

This was Larry's mature response to an email. Definately the last word Larry - could someone translate please?
Damon H - Thu Dec 2 10:47:30 1999

As for anyone interested in SGLMG membership issues, I encourage you to join us on Sat 11 Dec. The meeting is open to anyone - not just members. It is also the begining of a whole consulation process. I hope that those at the meeting may even propose ways that this public consultation may be done.

As for a number of postings here : Humour, passion, wit, criticism, comment, debate etc are all fine - personal attacks and accusations are not.
Ilana Kaplin - Thu Dec 2 11:08:35 1999

Ilana - I accept your admonition. However, it has not been my choice to play this disagreement out in public. A perusal of this wall over the past week or so will reveal that my participation has, overwhelmingly, been limited to responding to attacks on my by others. I have invited my attackers to contact me by email so we could discuss these issues directly. None of these people have taken up this invitation.

Apart from his attacks on me on this wall, Damon H has also prosecuted his campaign by private emails to me, blindcopying them to others. I have responded to his emails, and requested that he forward my replies to the bcc recipients of his emails to me. I have learned that he has not done this.

In an email sent to me last night, he included the persons who were being cced. I assume they are the same people who received his bcced emails. None of those persons (all of whom have my phone number) have bothered to contact me.

I learned last week that he faxed the contents of one of my postings to another member of New Magic, who did phone me. Subsequently recognising that my comments were intemperate, I posted an apology and retraction on this wall. I learned last night that he has not had the courtesy of faxing this retraction and apology to the person concerned.

It is not my desire to continue this dispute in either public, semi-public or private. But I am not going to let others get away with attacking me and traducing me.
Larry Galbraith - Thu Dec 2 15:29:59 1999

It is not helping anyone at all having you two air your laundry
Thu Dec 2 17:35:45 1999

Alot of people view the parade as a 'freak show' and their attitude is "let's spend a night gawking at the fags". Unfortunately I think that the parade in it's current form does more harm than it does good because it reinforces the stereotype that we are all just "himbos" in little shorts.

I would be very interested to know whether the incidence of homophobic abuse increases in schools the week immediately after the parade, because we all know that it certainly does increase on the streets after the parade.
Jono - Fri Dec 3 6:56:08 1999

Such a study could examine the way in which Mardi Gras impacts on the lives of lesbians and gay men, shapes community attitudes, influences social relationships between lesbians and gay men and the members of the wider community etc.

The need for such a study was highlighted yesterday by the release of the Lobby's Workplace Discrimination report. Go to http://www.rainbow.net.au/~glrl/frmemenu.htm

To quote from its summary:

"This research has shown that workplace harassment and prejudicial treatment of lesbians, gay men and transgender people on the basis of their sexuality or gender identity is prevalent. From this study 59% (532) of the participants had experienced some form of this behaviour or treatment at some time in their working life.For 52% this was in their current or most recent employment."

A social impact study could, for example, take this report, and examine whether this discrimination would have been greater, but for Mardi Gras, whether Mardi Gras contributed in some way to this discrimination, or whether there was no relationship.

Such a study is vital if Mardi Gras is to fully evaluate whether it is fulfilling the political objectives that many expect of it. Media coverage of the report suggests that there is still widespread discrimp
Fri Dec 3 9:14:38 1999

Craig is very much involved with Mardi Gras he is also a fine example of why homophobes say "give them special (legal) rights, and they take advantage of them". When Mardi Gras is further exposed of discriminating against its own kind, it will be more then the homophobes that will take on this belief, then see how far Mardi Gras has help reduce homophobia.
Fri Dec 3 10:36:02 1999
This is the opinion of the poster.

Lets take a look at the social classes of Mardi Gras.....you have the mainstream party boys, who are apolitical, but have a say because they supply the money through ticket purchases. You have the upper-class educated group, who use the party boy numbers to further their personal agendas, what ever they may be. And of course you have your lower class groups, which are usually comprise of those who don't quite fit into the other groups, because of a number of reasons, they are the ones usually doing the volunteer work, which frees up the party boys and their lesbian counterparts, so they can organise floats and enjoy the parties.

Everyone of these groups has it purpose, it is just a shame that nothing except a free ticket is given to the lower class groups, even though Mardi Gras would not exist if not for them. Next parade, walk around and ask the volunteers, what their sexuality is, you might be quite surprised.
Fri Dec 3 15:18:44 1999

I, for one, would be more than happy to have a smaller MG if it meant that it got back to it's political roots.

Remember MG was originally a political protest fighting for human rights for all regardless of sexuality.

It was not an excuse to have a party.
Jono - Fri Dec 3 19:30:20 1999

Larry and I have talked and made up in the most passionate fashion. Well actually, it was all a big misunderstanding really - we both bat for the same side afterall! Sorry to bore you all with our diatribe.

On an extremely complimentary note, did anyone catch the Mardi Gras coverage on the news this evening? Mardi Gras' Festival Program Promo held today showing the world that we are parts of families, actual families, and caring loving partners, friends, and (for some of us) parents. The positive way in which this showed the general community that we are no more abnormal (in fact, very similar) than they are is a great credit to whoever came up with the launch concept.

Mardi Gras is about belonging, a feeling, and this went a long way to helping that cause. Thank you to the Board and Staff that gave us very productive representation in today's press.

PS. To whoever loves to copy my style of writing - get a life, it didn't work!
Damon H - Fri Dec 3 23:22:51 1999

Instead all we have is one "meeting" to discuss the direction of MG (I thought that that was what the questionaire was about last year, why are we still only at this stage??), and that was only hastily organised after threats of disrupting next year's MG were raised.
Time to get moving - Sun Dec 5 14:47:44 1999