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Paul would have been a great president of Mardi Gras. He is articulate, charming, highly intelligent, warm, outgoing, good with people, down to earth, and able to mix with all kinds of people from the most mysoginist leather queens to young pomo queers, trannies and bisexuals.

Paul had a vision for Mardi Gras that would have taken us into the 21st century in a spirit of strength and pride. Unlike many previous presidents, he would have been an inclusive president willing to consult with and listen to all sections of the community and take their ideas on board. And he wouldn't have been afraid of seeking the advice of his predecessors and gaining the benefit of their experience and expertise. Paul is a true democrat!

I hope that the people involved with New Mardi Gras avail themselves of Paul's talent, skill and commitment. New Mardi Gras needs people of the calibre of Paul Croft if it's to get anywhere. If he's not already involved, this should be rectified immediately!
Paul's number 1 fan - I think he's great! - Wed 25 Sep 2002 20:51:48

Where were we.....................ACON has taken over. ACON has everything sealed up. NMG is actually ACON and nobody is talking. The board meets at ACON, and there not talking. All emails and press release come out of ACON, and this is about the only talking occuring. Michael Woodhouse is talking, because it makes it look like ACON is in control. But we all know Michael worked at ACON.

Other than that....not much has happened!
- Wed 25 Sep 2002 21:18:12
This is the opinion of the poster.

The release also introduces the interim board members and their nominated portfolios. The IB is now also at full compliment, and all the members, both existing and new, are fully committed to everyone in our multifaceted QBTILG community.

The board will report to the community on these developments at the start of the Parade Forum on Saturday. See you there.

Murray McLachlan
Member, New Mardi Gras Interim Board

NEW MARDI GRAS WINS ADMINISTRATOR SUPPORT

MEDIA RELEASE

New Mardi Gras has won the support of the SGLMG voluntary administrator to buy out key assets of the old organisation under a Deed of Company Arrangement which would see the first payment of $150,000 due on October 28, 2002.

‘We proposed to the voluntary administrator a Deed of Company Arrangement that would see New Mardi Gras purchase key assets of the old organisation for a maximum of $349,000 in staged payments between now and March 2004,” said Michael Woodhouse, New Mardi Gras co-chair.

“The voluntary administrator has written to creditors recommending that they accept our offer at the creditors' meeting on Monday September 30 and we are encouraging all creditors, particularly community businesses and organisations to vote for our Deed in order to guarantee some return and keep Mardi Gras in community hands. Our proposal will guarantee staff entitlements and provide some return to other creditors.

“If our proposal is accepted by the creditors we will need the support of individuals, businesses and sponsors to help raise $150,000 by October 28. Donations are tax deductable and can be made out to the AIDS Trust of Australia Mardi Gras Fund or call 9206 2073 for further information,” Michael said.

New Mardi Gras Co-chair Stevie Clayton confirmed that a Launch, Fair Day, Festival, Parade and Party will go ahead in 2003 with a series of community forums over the coming weeks for people to become involved.

“We will be establishing working groups for each of the events to be co-chaired by a Board member and a member of the community” Stevie said.

“For the 2003 Mardi Gras Season to be a success we need new ideas and for as many people as possible to become involved. Community forums will be held at the Metropolitan Community Church with the first meeting this Saturday at 2pm to discuss the Parade. A general meeting will be held on Saturday October 12 at 2pm and the following Saturday, October 19, we will be hosting a Festival Forum at a venue to be confirmed. On Wednesday October 30 we will hold a forum to discuss constitutional matters such as members and ticketing at ACON’s offices at 6pm.

“New Mardi Gras has also appointed four additional Board members this week – Daithi Holden, Jock McKeon, Tricia Sneddon and Luke Cutler. All four come to us with a wealth of experience,” Stevie said.

The following responsibilities have been allocated to specific Board members:

Treasurer and Audit Brendan Crotty
Company Secretary Nicci Clayhills
Finance/Admin Karla Hansford
Constitution Murray McLachlan
Fundraising Stuart Newell
Fair Day Tricia Sneddon
Parade Jacqui Jones
Party Jock McKeon
Launch Daithi Holden
Festival Luke Cutler
- Wed 25 Sep 2002 22:05:20

Who's Mardi Gras is this again?
Who's Mardi Gras? - Thu 26 Sep 2002 09:21:55

However, where on earth is all this money to come from? The $150K is one thing but money (and lots of it) is needed to produce events which these days are fairly high risk.

Any event producer will tell you this. Your insurance alone can cost anywhere between $40-$100K dependending on the capacity of your event. A party at Moore Park requires at least $400K, parade maybe $200-$300K and on and on it goes.

On top of all of this is of course DOCA payments that must be paid in full when the deadline approaches.

Whilst it is really hard not to support the intent of this group, I am not convinced that the new organisation is financially viable and these Directors will need to constantly watch their backs to make sure they are not trading insolvent. In particular for Jackie Jones who sat on the Board of the previous Mardi Gras and they have been accused of trading insolvent. Not good.

Is there is a business plan for the 2003 season? If so can we see one?
New Mardi Gras: good intent but not viable - Thu 26 Sep 2002 09:48:55

History repeating: completely agree with what you are saying.

There is an apparent link between what you are both saying and this points to the question of who's best interest is being pursued??? Not mardi Gras as far as i can see.

The conflict of interest will only get worse with ACON's ceo becoming a co-chair of new mardi gras.
- Thu 26 Sep 2002 11:54:54

Unfortunately inclusion does not seem to be a hall mark of ACON. For example the only bisexual named program I am aware of ACON ever being involved with is Women Partners Of Bisexual Men. This program is mainly for the wives and ex-wives of bisexual and gay men. It has presented the simple story that bisexual and gay men are the problem and the wives and ex-wives are the victims, ask Stevie for a copy of the Three in a Marriage video. The men's only Fun and Esteem project is the only thing that I am aware of ACON being involved in that sounds inclusive of bisexuals.

I am not knocking the need for a services like Women Partners Of Bisexual men, but would it not be just as important to reach out to the actual bisexual community, what about telling a story that is a little more complex then bi and gay men are bad, straight women are good. Possibly such a program exists to allay the fears of heterosexuals, by showing that something is being done to stop the potential of AIDS spreading to heterosexuals via bisexual men. Either way the obvious lack of inclusion of bisexuals in ACON's campaigns and projects makes them a very poor choice to take over NMG.
- Thu 26 Sep 2002 12:21:59

Not to mention that the facilitator is the boyfriend of the ACON president. Did people know this? This whole thing is such a sham.
ACON Mardi Gras? What a joke - Thu 26 Sep 2002 14:18:59

Ther are a few things worth considering however. First ever since it started ACON's HIV/AIDS prevention strategy heavily relies on a strong gay and lesbian community. Mardi Gras has been integral to that.

Secondly, if ACON didn't step in and start playing the role its now playing, who else would've? Pride, the obvious alternative, didn't appear to have the full confidence to take it on.

Thirdly, this is only an interim arrangement to get Mardi Gras through the next few months. New Mardi Gras will have to be turned over to a membership based organisation.

Fourthly, if NMG isn't handed over to a membership based organisation within a reasonable time - and a reasonable time would be by April 30 next year - there are ways to force this to happen. It won't be pleasant, it won't be pretty, but if there are enough people determined to make it happen, it will.

So, let's all take a deep breath, a cold shower, a toke or whatever relaxes you and give New Mardi Gras a chance.
Niccolo M. - Thu 26 Sep 2002 14:29:19

pride and the Lobby receive no gov funding so it may have been better for ACON to support their work instead of just taking it over themselves. But we are all critics aren't we and it is so easy for us to sit here firing criticisms at them.

just a thought. maybe we can give ACON some constructive suggestions thro this site and i'm sure they will listen but let's get off the personal attacks.
constructive feedback yes, personal attacks no - Thu 26 Sep 2002 15:03:26

I think everyone will find a lot more willing volunteers and generous donations if the New Mardi Gras gathers around Pride instead of ACON/Stevie.
here we go again - Thu 26 Sep 2002 15:04:50

Had Paul won that vicious election campaign, not a lot could have happened in the short time available. Paul is not a miracle worker and despite the three successive years of careful budgeting, the risks to Mardi Gras by a downturn in cash flow could never have been predicted when the budgets for the 2002 Year were set somewhere around May by, I assume, Paul and the key staff at Mardi Gras. These people then advise the rest of the Board who, one assumes, accept these as OK not being CAs or CEOs - which is fair enough.

The fact that we got to this stage has been an entrenched system of overspending for years, something that would have needed a much greater will than any one member of the Board, or, I suspect, the whole Board. This is attributable to the expectations that have been placed upon our Boards over many years now. I defer to Cath Phillips' article many months ago regarding the 'who dares, vanishes' concept of responsible expenditure over the last decade.

The "final" three Boards of SGLMG could probably not have changed what we demanded of them whilst the same entrenched systems were in place. Kelly could not recreate the wheel in a year, nor could the annually elected Board members.

This situation was coming from the heady mid 90s and nothing could stop the juggernaut except total bankruptcy.

C'est la vie! Some warned, some tried - all were ignored. Now even the most ardent rivals of the past talk similar 'tongues' - strange world this gay community.

We must now rebuild from the ground up with, hopefully, a slightly more sensible budgeting process, especially in the area of massive administration, and a lot less politics.

Dream on! I hear many say.....
Damon Hartley - Thu 26 Sep 2002 15:17:29

Why get into a position now of recreating the Old MG, when we had/have the chance now of starting a better MG from scratch? Cart before the horse here, and I think membership issues need to be discussed and decided before decisions on what form next years MG celebartions will take. After all, isn't it the members who should be consulted on these things? Sheesh. Get some members to NMG first, then ask them what *they* want to do next year.
Evil Twin - Thu 26 Sep 2002 15:42:26

WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!!!
- Thu 26 Sep 2002 19:54:59

"come to us".....drop the spin doctoring media comments, Stevie. It's your community you are speaking to, not the general public.

Get your shit together, or dump your public relation person.
- Thu 26 Sep 2002 20:00:31

Fiction you think? Well this happens regularly right here on Pinkboard.

Take this ACON question for example. It is correct to ask if there is a conflict of interest. It is an important question that needs to be aired. What is not needed is the accusations that there is an actual conflict. The leap from the question to the accusation is not based on logical argument. There is no reference to independently verifiable sources. There is no proof. There is only accusation.

Pinkboard does not have the resources for investigative journalists who can spend time uncovering the truths of such matters. Pinkboard does not claim to present facts, in fact Pinkboard specifically states that all postings are opinions. That is why I add all those "This is the opinion of the poster" below messages: to ensure that people realise that all of this not presented as fact. You personally must take the responsibility of obtaining independant verification before you believe it as fact.

I will go further and state that I believe that many of the negative comments that are placed on Pinkboard are placed by people who have an axe to grind. That they are deliberatly being destructive. I also believe that it is probably a small but loud minority that makes such posts.

I urge you all to stop and think about the effect of what you post, before you post it. Put yourself in their shoes and try to imagine how it might feel for them. We are supposed to be a community. That means we are supposed to care about each other and try and help each other.
Panther - Thu 26 Sep 2002 23:10:09

True.

Which of our community papers DOES have the resources to investigate this?

Answer: SSO.

But SSO have got one of their own board members on the NMG board - so how is this not a conflict of interest?
- Fri 27 Sep 2002 07:28:07

Someone needed to say it. *Quit ya bitchin* people. Let's move forward here.

NMG was formed out of community forums. It was obvious by attendance at the community forums that there is enough interested in keeping some form of group/association.business going. Does it matter where the people have come from, who are prepared to donate their time(and a lot of it) in order to make this happen (as long as they have the experience required to get the job done). Remember the Board are volunteers too.!!! We should be thankful to these people and not put them down for having the energy and willingness to place themselves in very demanding positions.

Please note in the media release it was mentioned that each Board Member would have a member of the community as Co-Chair for each Committee. I suggest those that make the most NEGATIVE noise in here get off their butts at their computers and go to the forums and offer to help. You all appear to have a shit load of energy, why not try using it in a POSITVE way you might be pleasantly surprised.

Alot of you sound like you need to form a new group. Perhaps an apt name for it would be "Spoiled Brats and Free Negative Thinking for Gays, Lesbians etc"

See all you whingers on Saturday at the Parade Community Forum where Im sure you can put all that energy to some positive use.
Concerned Member of a dying and sadly negative commmunity. - Fri 27 Sep 2002 07:41:48

For those people who were worried about a small percentage of the community who turned up to the meetings making the decisions, how do you feel now that this has been reduced to a handful? What's the point of asking for community input if that advice and those opinions are ignored?

And now we're being asked, yet again, to fund and give our time to an organisation who has yet to define its membership base, its ideals, aims, and administrative processes. There is still a real lack of transparancy. There is very little communication happening. And now we see an attempt to stifle real questions being asked by way of name calling. "Whingers"?

It's not going to be all sweetness and light. How unrealistic to think there would be a smooth and amicable transition to a NMG! Of course people will have concerns, fears, and personal biases. Unless these are heard AND addressed, how can you expect people to get behind the new organisation with a positive and hopeful attitude?

Oh. And still waiting to see the new Deed of Company Arrangement.
Evil Twin - Fri 27 Sep 2002 09:35:29

On Pinkboard: personally i LIKE the 'parlamentary privilege' culture here.
I can read the interesting contributions and discard anonymous mudslinger
posts with a finger on the down-arrow,while keeping in mind that only a
small % of the community actually READS this graffity wall [?] I'd like to
see more emailadresses as signature, so ppl can really have it out amongst
each other. Even if there are 'nasty/own agenda' comments i'd still like
to know what those agenda's ARE. Since the start of graffity-walls have i come to some understanding of what's going on, and how community members feel.
All in the name of democracy. Let rip!
TB TerriBly@hotmail.com - Fri 27 Sep 2002 10:43:10

Tomorrow the community will meet again to discuss the immediate future of Parade and what should be done to celebrate our 25th Anniversary (and the meeting will probably be reduced in numbers as should naturally be expected due to the fact that the initial shock and crisis are weeks old now and people are getting used to a different situation).

What I would love to see debated here (instead of personality assassinations and navel gazing retrospective analysis) is what form and shape we believe that Parade should take this year:

Should it be:

(1) The same format as previous years with a big Parade with floats, marching groups, fireworks, barricade etc etc?

(2) Do we go back to the streets (legally or otherwise) to protest again. Make a bold political statement about the lack of progresss in securing equality in many areas, just a few weeks before a state election?

(3) Do we give it a rest for a year, maybe have a rally at Domain in front of NSW Parliament and use the time to consolidate NMG and get some purse behind the new organisation and plan for a reinvigorated and reinvented 26th event?

(4) Do we really need to celebrate 25 years (we celebrated 20 only recently and it may be interpreted as a little bit introspective - should we wait till 30, 40, 50?)?

Additionally we need to make some decisions quickly on some of the key elements of Parade if it is to continue as previous years.

Lead Float
++++++++++
This can cost a lot of money each year - and involves tendering and selecting from community proiposals - so in light of (we hope) more conservative fiscal responsibility, is this a good approach? (should we bring the costs down by bringing it back in house or not having one at all this year?).

Artist Floats/Marching Groups/HIV Aids/ACON Float/Placards/Foreplay/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These all take up significant time and financial resources. MG in the past has paid for them all, what are our community priorities here - and are there other areas that need funding (Youth?) or development?

Fireworks/Lighting/Broadcast
============================
These are covered (mostly) by either sub-contracting out (broadcast) or sponsorship from venues (fireworks) but still take a lot of work by the committee and there is additional admin cost as a result of having them at all. Are they important? - Broadcast is a debate in itself as there has been a lot of community comment about the relative merits and quality of it.

Participation
=============
G&L&T individuals, groups, businesses or supporting organisations are I think what best describes the entry criteria (this may not be 100% correct but that is ok), do we want this exclusivity of involvement?

Commercialisation
+++++++++++++++++
Parades cost money! - whether it is barracades, user pays, tee-shirts for vollies or public liability insurance, any event will cost money. Therefore how far are we as a community prepared to go to protect the integrity of the parade in not allowing sponsorship (other than small signs on floats). Would we let a company sponsor it (everyone always jumps to the 'Telstra Parade' bogey-man to scare us but what about something like the GAYDAR Parade?), remember there are different levels of sponsorship and visibility that can be achieved so how far can we go as this will be critical to the survival. Remember that there is already a commercial slant to it with SSSC sponsorship, provision of some services and equipment, BGF seating and all the commercial support that goes in to that.

How much?
=========
Forget the cost for a moment - how much do we value parade and therefore how much are we as a community prepared to invest in it? $10k, $50k, $100K?? Last years was a well recieved event and it cost around $200K.

Sorry to take so much room with this post but there is bugger all stuff here debating this and I would like to have a feel for peoples opinions on this prior to tomorrow.

Please be constructive - no hand bagging, lets discuss what the future should be, not rake over the past. Whatever happens we are already a little late starting so a lot will be asked of the organisation if it is to do it like previous years.
2002 Parade Committee Volunteer. - Fri 27 Sep 2002 11:00:17

So what do ya say Stevie?
Another concerned member who hopes we have a fresh start, and not a repeat of the old ways. - Fri 27 Sep 2002 11:15:14

Before Sleaze 2001, I rang the SGLMG office only to be told that the person had left SGLMG a couple of week ago. I then asked could I speak to their replacement. Well, what a mistake. This prompted them to say there would be no replacement because SGLMG didn't have any money, and they had to pay this person all their holidays...blah blah blah. Shit I said to myself.

I happen to mention this to a friend. I said "I think Mardi Gras is in financial trouble". I was told to shut up and to stop bitching about MG.

The comment by the receptionist were totally out of order, but people told me that if I mentioned it I would be spreading rumours. In response to your posting - if I logged onto pinkboard and stated this last year - would you have believed me, or others for that matter. Most probably not! It was nearly 9 months before the truth came out.

As to whether ACON is the organisation we wish to take our mardi gras forward. You may need to only look at the letter columns in back issues of the SSO. Mardi Gras and ACON seem to be the only organisations that has disappointed its members, or pissed off the community at one stage or another. I'll leave it at that!
- Fri 27 Sep 2002 19:38:11

Another concerned member - This week's SSO also reports that Stevie will be avoiding situations which may be a conflict of interest.
Panther - Fri 27 Sep 2002 20:45:47

I was not talking about bitching or asking legitimate questions. I was talking about the messages that go beyond bitching, that make attacks against people or organisations. These messages are destructive of our community and the people who put energy and time into our community.

Pinkboard does not have parliamentary privilege. I will be sued if I allow libelous messages to be published.
Panther - Fri 27 Sep 2002 20:58:18

As ACON do have a poor track record when it comes to bisexuals, I was legitimately worried to see Stevie as co-chair. I also noticed that "Parade volunteer" left off bisexuals in their list of included parade entries. I guess that means PFLAG don't get to march either as community supporters didn't get a mention either. This may sound picky, but unless inclusion starts at the begining of the NMG's formation, it will be very easy to gloss over it until we're back to the gay purity tests of Old MG. It's all very well to say "you can fix this later" but it's much harder to change something once it's set in stone (ask the GLRL).

If, as Murray says "The IB is now also at full compliment, and all the members, both existing and new, are fully committed to everyone in our multifaceted QBTILG community. " then I think they need to be SEEN to be applying this principle, and from RIGHT NOW. Walk the walk if you're going talk the talk.

I'm keeping an eye on this. I'm not going to let NMG get away with non inclusive policy, words or actions. If this comes across as bitching and negativity, I'm sorry. I want NMG to work and be a better organisation than the old.
Evil Twin - Sat 28 Sep 2002 10:04:04

So far this is NMG's idea of inclusion:-
a) Collect money from bisexuals via party tickets etc.
b) Ensure that sponsors do not get scared off by obvious forms of biphobia and heterophobia.

Bisexuals should say stuff you to NMG and focus on creating a world where it does not matter who you love. After all that is what matters to us, we have no interest in sexuality purity tests. We just want love to be respected in all its forms.
One less volunteer - Sat 28 Sep 2002 14:03:05

... my first post in response to this statement did not get loaded to Pinkboard so I will try again in a different format ...
I hope to see a real statement posted asap after today's NMG Parade Forum confirming that the parade wil be Inclusive rather than Exclusive, else there will be many less volunteers, participants and viewers of the 2003 Parade.
Consider, if you hold up such an exclusive entry criteria PFLAG will not be able to participate.
pardon me for asking - Sat 28 Sep 2002 20:04:36

Rick Davey, yes, you'll see me tuesday :-). Thanks for the reassurances that the NMG are behind the *whole* community being involved, but it would be nice to hear it from Stevie too. In fact, as the co-chair, it's imperative we hear it from her. Why should I be supportive of an organisation when I don't know if their core values/aims/goals/objectives include me and my friends?
Evil Twin - Sun 29 Sep 2002 16:43:43

As a casual observer I can see there is some effort to rectify the economic problems of the past, which is indicated by the skills of the recently selected interim board. But lack of expertise was not what brought the old Mardi Gras down, it was the organisational culture. If we are unwilling to include others then it is unlikely we would be willing to change the culture.
do we change? - Sun 29 Sep 2002 21:10:31

If we only look at the "majority" then let's just make it "Gay" and cut out the L and the T, because they're just minorities within our community.

I bet there'd be a whole lot more uproar if it came down to lesbians being excluded from NMG.

No, racism and homophobia and biphobia are EVERYONE'S problem!

If you want other issues to take centre stage then start bloody posting! and raising issues that you want addressed instead of just bagging other people out to make a difference
A Gay man of ethnic origins. - Mon 30 Sep 2002 10:50:04

This means the community will retain ownership of Mardi Gras' most important assets.

To guarantee this, the first payment under the Deed of Arrangement must be made by the end of October. So, time for bitching is over. Time for getting the cash is now seriously upon us.
- Mon 30 Sep 2002 12:24:03

The most obvious first place is Sleaze. If Pride can sell lots of tickets to the party then there may be left over money to help get the first payment ready. I doubt that the Gay Games would give anything to the NMG.
- Mon 30 Sep 2002 13:28:35

The development of the constitution is probably a little way off as I guess the new board are going to have their hands full right now raising funds and putting together all the operational/tactical issues that revolve around the agreed activities of a launch (of some description) fair day, parade and party.

So for all those that want NMG to be an inclusive organisation I think you have the new boards support but it wont be their decision it will be the community's decision through community consultation meetings, so make sure you are at the constitution meetings when they are called.
- Mon 30 Sep 2002 13:46:28

As much as I love MG and want it to continue, I can't donate money to a scheme that I feel will result in the community meeting again in about two years time discussing the financial failure of NMG.I will gladly give money to the 2003 parade costs. Will there be a separate fund estalished for people such as myself who wish to support NMG but not support the deed of arrangement. I imagine that if the money isn't forthcoming then we go back to liquidation?
groundhog day - Mon 30 Sep 2002 14:12:09

Mardi Gras will stay in community hands after creditors of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras (SGLMG) today voted to accept a Deed of Company Arrangement from a community based organisation.

The SGLMG voluntary administrator recommended a proposal from “New Mardi Gras”, an organisation formed by AIDS Council of NSW (ACON), Pride, the Gay & Lesbian Rights Lobby and Queer Screen, to buy out key assets.

“This is great news for our community and for all the people who support what Mardi Gras represents in our lives,” said New Mardi Gras Co-Chair Stevie Clayton. “We thank the creditors for their foresight in supporting a proposal that may bring little return for them but an enormous return for the economy and for the community.

“Many people have taken the last few months to think about just how significant the Mardi Gras Season is for gay men, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people in NSW, Australia and even overseas. It is an important event that our communities have been overwhelmingly vocal about saving,” Ms Clayton said.

The New Mardi Gras organisation was recently formed with the endorsement of community forums to ensure the assets remained with the community. An interim board was appointed to negotiate with the administrators, coordinate the 2003 Season and to determine the future of Mardi Gras following widespread consultation.

New Mardi Gras Co-Chair Michael Woodhouse said the Deed of Company Arrangement accepted by SGLMG creditors will see the purchase of key assets for a maximum of $349,000 in staged payments between now and March 2004 with a guarantee of staff entitlements.

“We are now coordinating an enormous fundraising drive to make our first payment of $150,000 on October 28, 2002, “Mr Woodhouse said.

“Businesses and individual members of the community who have been keen to do something to help save Mardi Gras can help with fundraising with. Donations can be made out to the AIDS Trust of Australia Mardi Gras Fund or call 9206 2073 for further information.

“The funds for the assets will ensure that the 2003 Mardi Gras Season can go ahead with a Parade on March 1, a Party, Fair Day, Festival and Launch. A series of community forums is now underway to get the community involved in how they want these events to look. Anyone interested in becoming involved can contact us at newmardigras@acon.org.au,” Mr Woodhouse said.
- Mon 30 Sep 2002 15:48:02

In any case, Nouveau Mardi needs to make financial viability a top priority or it will all be over red rover again. Perhaps we really have turned a corner in a way if there is such a strong community push to be careful, spend wisely and within your means rather than the old culture of bigger, better, more expensive and fuck the consequences. It's certainly a turnabout for us as community members to be giving the Board this message and urging it to be responsible. the community seems ready to let go of some things in order to ensure Mardi Gras continues for the long term. Let's keep up this pressure and make sure there is something to hand over when the organisation becomes a community based one again next year.
Kathy Sant - Mon 30 Sep 2002 17:33:01

I was at all the community meetings and I agree the feeling was that we should make an attempt to buy assets at an affordable price. You can't convince me that $349K is bargain basement prices or was an amount that those present had in mind. You will also recall that the feeling of the meeting was that NMG should be willing to walk away with nothing if the price was wrong. If the message that NMG board took away was different, then maybe at the next community meeting on October 12 we should pass written motions so there can be no confusion.
groundhog day - Mon 30 Sep 2002 18:45:39

It's Sleaze Ball week!

Get off your butts and buy tickets, plan your weekend and, just for once this year, be positive about the future of our community and its flagship.

We have a chance now to get it right and see it soar, leaner, cleaner and meaner than ever before.

Go girls!!!
- Mon 30 Sep 2002 20:18:31

Sydney's biggest party has been rescued and will live to see another year after Mardi Gras creditors, some owed as much as $70,000, voted to cut their losses.

Creditors yesterday voted overwhelmingly in favour of a deal by community-based groups to form an organisation called New Mardi Gras, which will pay $349,000 for the debt-ridden event's key assets. The deal should keep the world's biggest gay party alive and in gay hands.

Administrator Scott Pascoe recommended the deed of company arrangement from New Mardi Gras, which was formed by the AIDS Council of NSW (ACON), Pride, the Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby and Queer Screen.

Only one creditor - the largest - voted against the deal: the Tax Office. "The vote by creditors was based very much on community interests instead of commercial interests ... which is an unusual situation for an administrator," Mr Pascoe said.

He declined to reveal what return creditors would receive, but some of them said that once the administrator's fee and Mardi Gras staff entitlements were paid out, the return would be virtually nothing.

A loan of $50,000 from ACON, intended as cash flow for New Mardi Gras, has already gone ahead. ACON president Adrian Lovney said the money was not government funding but was from the organisation's diverse range of fund-raising activities.

Included in the assets for which New Mardi Gras is paying $349,000 are all intellectual property rights for Mardi Gras, such as brand names, trademarks and a potentially sensitive database of more than 10,000 Mardi Gras members complete with details of their sexuality.

New Mardi Gras is also buying some of the more controversial floats that have starred in Mardi Gras parades over the past 25 years. An auction of the remaining costumes, floats, props and other equipment is expected to take place within three weeks.

New Mardi Gras will pay for the assets in stages between now and 2004, with an "enormous fund-raising drive" beginning immediately to make the first payment of $150,000 on October 28.

"Business and individual members of the community ... can help with fund-raising," New Mardi Gras co-chair Michael Woodhouse said.

"The funds for the assets will ensure that the 2003 Mardi Gras season can go ahead with a parade on March 1, a party, a fair day, festival and launch."
This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/30/1033283437658.html - Tue 1 Oct 2002 11:01:27

Planning for the 2003 Mardi Gras Arts and Cultural Festival is underway with the establishment of a Festival Working Group by New Mardi Gras. Co-Chairs of the Working Group are New Mardi Gras Board member Luke Cutler, former artistic director of Adelaide’s Feast Festival, and Pip Newling, Queer Screen President.

“This is a fantastic opportunity for the local artistic community to make 2003 the cultural festival they want it to be, “ said Festival Working Group Co-Chair Luke Cutler.

“New Mardi Gras is seeking to engage our community of artists, both new and established, to present challenging, engaging, confronting work in an umbrella festival coordinated by New Mardi Gras and volunteers

“This year we may be low on cash but we are rich in talent. We hope that all aspects of the cultural spectrum from young, emerging queer talent to established late-career artists will take up this challenge to participate in Mardi Gras 2003.

“With the short lead up time to February the festival will be smaller than usual but will focus on Sydney-based and Australian artists. The 2003 festival is all about profiling local work and we want our artists to really celebrate and participate in the festival.

“Artists, performers, musicians, producers, venues and community groups with the vision, energy and commitment to plan and run their own events are invited to register for inclusion within the Festival Guide.

“Festival Participation Kits are now available for events to be included in the Guide. Registration is free but needs to be finalised by November 8 – email newmardigras@acon.org.au with the subject “2003 Arts Festival” or call 9206 2073 and leave a message.

“Arts lovers are also invited to nominate for the Festival Working Group which will be a ‘hands on group’ to network, support and encourage artists to become involved and in the 2003 Season and work on the event over the next six months.

“A Festival Forum will be held at 2pm on Saturday October 19 at a venue to be confirmed. Anyone wanting to join the Festival Working Group, hold an event, volunteer to help run the festival or contribute in any way is welcome at the forum,” Mr Cutler said.
- Tue 1 Oct 2002 12:42:47

But that bird that runs the SGLBA didn't even acknowledge Mardi Gras new or old or even comment, to a group (of what seemed) high profile and affluent, influential people.

All she did was read a scripted piece and make a motherhood statement behind her sanctimonious platform of non-conformity.

Is that all the SGLBA can do-put on a good feed?

Let's get ACON to take over the SGLBA too !!
Peeved SGLBA Member - Wed 2 Oct 2002 15:38:33

"Another one of my concerns is..." Tee hee. Sorry about the ear bashing.
Evil Twin - Wed 2 Oct 2002 17:15:48

At least you got a response? Imagine how you would feel if you contacted an organisation to alert them of something seriously wrong. Imagine if they did nothing for months? Imagine how you would feel to make a phone call to be informed they, "had investigated your complaint and could find no wrong doing by the organisation".

Imagine your surprise days later to be able to conclude that the Manager:

A) Did NOT listen to the original complaint.
B) Jumped the gun stating xxxxxx had investigated the complaint.
C) Is yet to respond via phone, email or letter or here if you would prefer.

,,, on a personal note, while a certain culture exists the statistics will remain blurred for the next generation. I think most of us have lived long enough to be able to judge who will die with ???/>>> and who will die of old age if a quick mindset is applied.
The small boy - Wed 2 Oct 2002 21:11:02

I have been a long time member of the SGLBA, a very long time.
The 'bird' you refer to, ain't no bird.

She's a Proud Peacock.
Yes, she is non-conformist, tactful and guarded and heads the "WET" faction of the group.

I too am annoyed that the SGLBA haven't spoken up for Mardi Gras and am incensed that they have no representation on the NMG Board.

In fact they don't speak up for anything.They don't even reply to letters from others in the Community seeking their moral help.

The Peacock is to blame, others on the Board; more progressive, let's say more opinionated,informed and articulate have been stifled.

I say don't despair.

Why?

Because I have faith.
The SGLBA have an obligation.
They need to refocus and direct their energies far more effectively.
I will continue my support of them as an organisation as intrinsically they are solid.
...but unfortunately 'they ain't got balls'.

Peeved, I thought the Risotto was too green at the Bill Deane Dinner. Maybe Margaret Fulton could be next speaker.

As for the Peacock she oughta relinquish the microphone-she's no Throsby.
C'mon SGLBA get some direction in this darned community you have the mantra .

Either that or have a coup.
Longtime SGLBA member - Thu 3 Oct 2002 08:02:47
This is the opinion of the poster.

A Question ?

Where were the ACON and PRIDE and LOBBY and QUEERSCREEN representatives at the SGLBA Dinner?

Doesn't it work both ways?
Big 'bird' - Thu 3 Oct 2002 08:06:36

In the late 1980s it revived with an energetic leadership - but lately it seems to have slipped back into the cycle which lead to its demise about 15 years ago. I may be wrong in this - and perhaps some of the NMG board members should have absented themselves from their board meeting to attend the GBA dinner - but the GBA hasn't exactly demonstrated that it wants to be a player in the wider community. Of course it and its members may be about to prove me totally wrong with its and their energetic support of NMG's fundraising drive over the next month.
- Thu 3 Oct 2002 09:57:50

What's the quote from Hamlet?

"there's something rotten in the state of Denmark"

in this case it's closer to home.

Bring on FRUITS- let's give 'em credit for that at least.
Longtime SGLBA member - Thu 3 Oct 2002 14:29:45

As a bisexual who is keen to volunteer to make the New Mardi Gras a wonderful success. It is communications such as below that make me feel a lot more comfortable donating my time, energy and money.
--------------

NEW MARDI GRAS

VISION

New Mardi Gras: creating the new future

MISSION

* Secure the assets of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd.
* Deliver a 2003 Mardi Gras season, focussing on the core events of a launch, fair day, an 'umbrella' festival, parade and party
* Determine the future of Mardi Gras following widespread consultation
* Build the foundations of a sustainable organisation

VALUES

We are committed to achieving equality for gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual and queer people through:

* Community
* Inclusion
* Accessibility
* Consultation
* Volunteer involvement
* Innovation
* Transparency
* Partnerships
* Responsibility
* Fun
* Celebration

Endorsed by the New Mardi Gras Board
1 October 2002
- Thu 3 Oct 2002 22:04:56

This might sound extremely petty, but why is it that gay is always first, followed with lesbian, then transgender? Do you think we can change it for once.

Can we be progressive.. how about transgender, bisexual, gay and lesbian as the running order.
- Sat 5 Oct 2002 16:28:43

But I prefer adding the most inclusive term in first. ie. "gay" can include gay men, women and people who are attracted to both sexes. ie. "gay" as it was used at the first MG in 78.

Internationally, GLBT is the accepted term.
- Sat 5 Oct 2002 19:05:17

I'd like to see a symbiotic relationship develop over the current parasitic one.
queer economics - Mon 7 Oct 2002 16:10:58

Greed has taken over the SGLMG, money talks and Gay Pride walks...

Dance parties ticket prices are over the top.
Bring the prices down, scrap membership fees to genuinely 'Gay and Lesbian' members and maybe, just maybe we'll all party and enjoy the freedom of being gay in this grand old city like it should be.

Everything is over priced.....
- Mon 7 Oct 2002 18:44:39

We could test the dubious theory that we as a community would be able to boycott things that we really loved in order to achieve a stronger community.
- Tue 8 Oct 2002 13:22:45

By Anthony Dennis SMH - October 8 2002

Organisers of the 2002 Gay Games are blaming a loss of confidence in the gay community, flowing from the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras' financial crisis, for the freezing of $2.5 million in Games funds, weeks before thousands of participants arrive from around the world.

Ticketek's refusal to release the funds, derived from ticket sales to various Games events, is said to be largely due to fears that the Games may not go ahead in the light of the Mardi Gras problems. It is understood that the funds are being held to protect ticket-buyers, under an industry code of practice, in the event that the Games are cancelled. Games co-chair Bev Lange yesterday confirmed reports in the Sydney Star Observer that organisers were seeking to secure a $1.5 million guarantee for an overdraft from Westpac to help resolve the event's cashflow problems. Ticketek could not be contacted yesterday. Ms Lange insisted there was no question the privately funded Games would not proceed. They had millions of dollars "in the bank" from registration fees from 13,000 mainly international participants. Ms Lange said there had been encouraging bookings for parties designed to bolster funding for the event. But Mardi Gras troubles had undermined confidence in the Gay Games and also hurt its credibility. "Everywhere I go people ask, are you going to survive?" Ms Lange said. "Mardi Gras has effectively taken the focus away from the Games and made the local community nervous about the Games going on.
"But we're not in the same situation as Mardi Gras. People find it difficult to tell the difference between the Gay Games and Mardi Gras even though they are separate entities with completely separate boards."

In addition to the Gay Games' cash flow problems, the problem-plagued, week-long event suffered yet another setback last week when SBS television withdrew from a plan to televise the November 2 gala opening ceremony at Aussie Stadium and to screen a nightly program. Organisers are negotiating with Foxtel to provide some limited television coverage, but it is certain that the opening ceremony, featuring the Canadian singer k.d. lang and directed by Ignatius Jones, will not be broadcast live. It is estimated that the Gay Games will generate $100 million to the NSW economy but the State Government has baulked at underwriting the event with taxpayer funds.

Ms Lange agreed that the event was a "sleeper" and predicted the Gay Games would be highly visible to Sydneysiders when thousands of visitors begin arriving towards the end of the month. She said a banner and billboard program along Sydney streets is planned.

It was announced last week that the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras had been rescued after creditors voted in favour of a deal by community-based groups to form an organisation called New Mardi Gras, which is to pay nearly $350,000 for the event's key assets."
- Tue 8 Oct 2002 17:30:29

Does anyone else recall this meeting? Does anyone know whether these people now, deep down, still hold the same views, even though they can't possibly admit they were right then and wrong now?
Memories ... like the swirling mists of time - Sun 13 Oct 2002 18:41:57

Miss Bev, Mr Paul, Mr Gary et al.... If you want our support for the Games, start accepting responsibility for the past and show us true leadership otherwise the Games will be a bloody big waste of time and gross embarrassment.
noisy gypsy - Mon 14 Oct 2002 14:30:45

So now Mardi Gras is having to reinvent itself at the same time the Gay Games reaches its climax. The business and political climate has been unfortunate for large-scale events the past several years, and it's obvious some questionable decisions have been made by some of the leaders in charge of both Mardi Gras and the Gay Games. Still, these events are worth having and it's a struggle to find an appropriate level of what constitutes "success" -- the size of comparative cultural festivals seems to be a sticking point for both the Gay Games and Mardi Gras. And maybe the necessary cutback in the size of Sleaze was, in an odd way, a good thing; at least as reflected on the Internet, this year's edition wasn't bad at all and absolutely not the flop that some mistakenly predicted.

Whatever, Sydney has to work it out because the rest of us have our own homegrown situations. It just seems to me to be in every Aussie's best interest to have a successful Gay Games -- if the Games gets through the cash flow situation and breaks even following the problems of the last couple of years, it will only serve to help Mardi Gras' prospects by showing government and business leaders that the G&L community still has the leadership to work some things out even in the face of adversity. After all, the Gay Games will come and go but the other groups expect to be around for a while, right?
Heading for Sydney in Two Weeks - Tue 15 Oct 2002 03:47:43

Perhaps the same big spenders from the Mardi Gras era that set up the disaster, who now grace the Board Room of the Gay Games, should have done the same, instead of relying almost totally on 5 parties and tourism. Let's hope that it achieves the goals but, with the horrendous acts of terrorism in Bali, travel plans may be changed as people realise that we are not isolated from the evil that now permeates our world.

We welcome you with open arms into our beautiful city but please don't be under any illusion that the practices and politics of the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Community have not been terribly destructive of recent times.

Whilst the ex-Mardi Gras crew do their bit for the Gay Games, the new Mardi Gras Board are getting on with the job of establishing a no-crap Mardi Gras that may, with a bit of luck and lots of support, give us an organisation of quality, not quantity, into the future.
noisy gypsy - Tue 15 Oct 2002 14:17:43

Behind every great man there is a greater man... Or so they say.

Stuart will need all the love and support that David can muster, as will every Board member from their friends and partners. Being a supporter is just as important a role as being on the Board itself.
- Tue 15 Oct 2002 16:26:20

not much happened
waiting on the website to open - oh look, there it is ...
www.mardigras.org.au
B - Tue 15 Oct 2002 18:41:50

Sadly, not much energy come from the new mardi gras board, nor the crowd. At times when Stevie Clayton spoke, she seem in near tears!!

Frankly, it was disappointing to see some arriving late, while others leaving the forum waybefore it ended.

If this is the best support that New Mardi Gras can muster then, my friends the fat lady may have startin singing.
Maria Callas - Tue 15 Oct 2002 19:05:17

1. The meeting showing its strong support and appreciation for what Stevie and the NMG Board have done so far.

2. A complete absence of negativity, whinging, carping or whining (and that may be because the usual whingers and whiners didn't turn up);

3. even though the discussion groups were small, some really exciting and innovative ideas coming out of them.

If Stevie did seem like she was in near tears when she spoke (and I didn't notice it) maybe its because she is really giving every ounce of her being to trying to keep both ACON and new NMG on the road - and thank the Goddess she is, because there's no one else who is in the position to do what she's doing. And perhaps she also is having to deal with carpers and naysayers who don't really care about mardi gras unless they are in total control.

I came away from the forum feeling very positive about what's happening. The NMG board have a big job ahead of them. I know there are people who think we're paying too much to get the assets, but the real test of whether it's too much isn't how many people turn up at meetings, or bitch about it in private, it's whether the community actually digs into their pockets and shows their support.

I'm also not overly concerned about the numbers of people who are showing either. Old mardi gras wasn't exactly known for seriously encouraging people to be involved - even though they pretended to when it suited them - so understandably people might not be used to having the chance to participate ... and they might be just a little suspicious.

I believe this can be overcome. What new mardi gras has to do is positively demonstrate that new people are welcome, that they want them to be involved, and that they will be respected and their contribution will be valued. And perhaps new mardi gras needs to deal with some of the things that might discourage people and that includes being prepared to stand up to the handful of community bullies who want their own way all the time and drive others away.
Monserrat Caballe - Wed 16 Oct 2002 10:16:10

I will be supporting Stevie and ACON in their efforts to get Mardi Gras back up and running, however I do not think she is the type of leadership that will take the New Mardi Gras into the future (present for some).
- Wed 16 Oct 2002 16:09:36

I'm well aware of the conflicts that she has been involved in - I was on the other side of some of them. So what? The important thing is not to use New Mardi Gras as a forum to replay those old conflicts and for all of us to do what we can to prevent that happening. Dwelling on those old conflicts is not helpful.

As to whether Stevie continues to be involved in mardi gras after its handed back to the community will be partly her decision - whether or not she wants to stay involved - but ultimately the decision of the new organisation's membership. To start speculating who might or might not lead mardi gras in the future is at this stage premature. There's still a lot of work to be done to ensure mardi gras has a future. What we should be concerned about is mardi gras here and now, and the leadership it currently has, and I for one am pleased that Stevie is currently providing that leadership, personally difficult and challenging though that might be for her.
Larry Galbraith - Wed 16 Oct 2002 23:37:47

If we continue down this road, we won't have anybody standing for elections or sitting on any of our community organisations - all to frighten to put their hands up to say pick me ... i'm stupid enough to take the role.

The fat lady may have started to sing, but really the crowd sitting in the audience needs to get off their arses and clap every now and then. Stevie can't be hitting off notes all through her musical score, and her performance hasn't been all that bad.

Question: Why has Michael Woodhouse escaped all your comments?
Deputy Dawg - Thu 17 Oct 2002 08:01:16

Stevie is just one of many people involved. To suggest that new mardi gras is the result of her work alone or that her involvement has been the deciding factor is ridiculous. Thank everyone involved. Thank the new board. Thank both Co-Chairs. But stop suggesting that Stevie Clayton has single handedly saved the world.
- Thu 17 Oct 2002 10:11:34

As a community leader myself it never ceases to amaze me the level of viciousness that exists within our community. As the Co-President of PRIDE I have also had to experience the accusations and the personal abuse experienced by so many of my colleagues who want nothing more than to serve their community.

Perhaps the most insidious part is that those who are so willing throw knives at us are not even prepared to put their own name to the accusations but instead choose to hide behind anonymity.

As community leaders it is essential for us to receive feedback about our performance and for us to be advised as to how we can perhaps improve our work. This can be done in a meaningful and robust way. It was does not have to resort to the community / internet terrorism that continues on a daily basis.

Finally, as a younger person existing in our community, I ask this of all of you, what legacy are leaving behind to this generation? Please do not let it be a legacy of hatred and bitterness.

Regards

Lou-Anne Lind
Co-President
Sydney PRIDE Centre
- Thu 17 Oct 2002 11:56:10

I feel very confident that her leadership will achieve very positive outcomes for our community. Look what she managed to do with Pride! It was pulled out of obscurity and now has a strong profile and role in the GLBTQ communities.

Well done LouAnne, Pride and New Mardi.
Young Leader for Constitution Committee - Fri 18 Oct 2002 11:32:48

And to Lou-Anne, congratulations and all the best...
Rick Davey - Fri 18 Oct 2002 12:56:27

I've been talking to people about how great it is that the bi issue has been dealt with so easily (I'm a gay pro-bi man) and feel like it's all been alittle TOO easy. When is this bubble going to burst?

And where was that community dialogue that was apparently so lacking at the EGM as Stevie put it "there aren't enough of us here to vote on something so important"... hell NMG are even less in numbers than were at that meeting. How dare they make this kind of decision on their own (even if I do like the outcome). I just think that somewhere along the line this will need to be dealt with and alot of shit will fly.
- Fri 18 Oct 2002 17:30:01

so, if you don't mind a bit of advice, go along to the constitution forums, but demonstrate that you can talk sensibly and calmly about issues other than bisexual membership. in fact, leave it to the other bis to push that issue. if you take my advice you might just find things a bit easier for you. of course thats assuming you want things to be easier for you.

but i think the constitution group has to talk about many more issues than just whether bisexuals should be allowed to join new mardi gras
- Fri 18 Oct 2002 20:44:57

"I witnessed your performance at the mardi gras meeting a few years ago when the decision didn't go the way you wanted it to". Hell in the face of HOMOphobia we'd all get pissed off too. Surely you heard the subtext of what people were saying at that meeting. "We must exclude bisexual people to protect the parties from undesirables. ie. homophobes". Do you not feel complete anger whenever you hear politicians make an association between homosexuality and pedophilia? So he shouted abit, but he didn't swear and he never abused anyone. Which is a hell of alot more than what some former treasurers did when they heckled from the backrow throughout the meeting.

Also, how do you know that Glenn can only talk about bisexual issues? That's like heterosexuals saying that Ian Roberts or Justice Kirby only being able to talk about "gay" issues because they are seen as "gay" activists - despite the fact that both Ian Roberts and Justice Kirby have spoken out on other (less publicised and heated) issues.

I think there is something very fishy happening when a community member puts their hand up time and time again and NMG never take up his offer of volunteer work.
Gay pro-bi man - Sat 19 Oct 2002 03:11:42

This reaction was not due to not winning the EGM, in fact the vote had not even been caste yet. The reason I was so angry and upset was that my partner had just sat down after explaining her very traumatic past, where she had been kicked out at home at 16 because she came out as bisexual to her parents, she was living on the streets and as with this sort of living some horrible things happened to her. She explained that if it was not for becoming a member of Mardi Gras and the feeling of being a part of something larger, she may not be here today (Luckily she did not receive this letter - http://bi.org.au/activism/mgreject6.JPG)

Then another women got up and spoke about how bisexuals do not experience homophobia and that they are advantaged in society and that this is a reason they should not become members, she also said a few other typical biphobic things about bisexuals, and bisexual women in particular. My partner began crying from the distress of spilling her guts to a bunch of people who had not listened but instead choose to blame her for the traumatic experiences she has had to endure because she is queer.

So yes I got angry and screamed, I stormed out. But I dare any of you to say that you would not also feel so strongly under these circumstances.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Sat 19 Oct 2002 15:46:31

If I may give Glen some gratuitous advice, perhaps he should demonstrate that he can talk about other issues by actually talking about other issues - here, on the pinkboard, at the community forums etc. Then people might start seeing him as more than a single issue person.
- Sat 19 Oct 2002 18:48:04

There has been NO community dialogue regarding inclusion of bisexual people into NMG. And I find it disconcerting that so many prominent people would flip so easily on an issue that just two years ago they felt so "strongly about". I'm sitting around waiting for the bubble to burst on this issue and the shit to really fly.

Sat 19 Oct 2002 18:48:04 - what other issues have even been raised about the constitution? first past the post voting system? or preferencial voting system? postal voting? membership structure? absolutely NOTHING has been discussed about here on ANY of those or other constitutional issues. Don't single out Glenn for not talking about anything else but the bisexual issue, when no-one else talked about anything else either.

And how do you know what else he talks about in his conversations with others? you follow him around listen to all his conversations and know that he ONLY talks about bisexual inclusion? alot of people would say that most gay people only ever talk about gay & lesbian inclusion.
G(p-b)M - Sat 19 Oct 2002 21:18:34

I am not sure what people mean by being a one issue person. That is like saying gay and lesbian community leaders are one issue because they lobby for gay and lesbian rights. Bisexuals share some common goals with gays and lesbians, but we also have different goals that have to be represented from a bisexual perspective.

My relationship is a perfect example of how different we can be, and just how our different our values and culture can be. I currently live in a loving polyamorous relationship with two women, I have previously had long term relationships with men, we are current seeking an out bi guy. Polyamorous relationships are not recognised, nor do they have anti-discrimination protection. (Bisexuality also has incomplete protection under the current NSW Anti-Discrimination Act). Bi Pride Australia made a submission to the Law Reform Commission in response to Discussion Paper 44 - Review of the Property (Relationships) Act 1984 (NSW), which was completely about Polyamorous relationships.

As an example of a goal we share, we are currently preparing a submission to the NSW Standing Committee on Social Issues for Equal Age of Consent. We will be highlighting the double standard that bisexual men face, with them having two different age of consent laws dependent on the gender of their sexual partner.

Oh yes, thanks for the comparisons with Michael Kirby who I have the utmost respect for. Though I doubt that is a fair comparison. As for Ian Roberts, football ain't my thing.....but some footballers are :-)
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Sat 19 Oct 2002 21:56:01

Stonewall remembered - http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/499/499p5c.htm
.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Sat 19 Oct 2002 22:21:13

Sure the new company may be inclusive of all sexualities as members, but names mean alot. Names mean visibility. If we simply revert to Gay MG do you think that lesbians are going to take that lying down? And I don't see anyone really wanting GLBT MG as the name. Then there is Queer MG which is much simpler name, but many people have problems with (myself included there).

So see? that conversation is going to be had whether we want to or not.

I'm glad NMG is being more inclusive, but i don't think that that is the end of our journey.
GP-BM - Sun 20 Oct 2002 22:26:45

Now, the good and bad news is (depending which way you look at it) before this can happen there will have to be a series of community forums. That's what we were told at the last community forum. How else are we going to work out what we want the new organisation will be in an open democratic way? They don't have to be hurtful and mud raking. They hopefully will be constructive and forward looking. And hopefully out of this process we'll end up with an organisation that is inclusive and will meet the community's needs for at least another 25 years.
- Sun 20 Oct 2002 22:52:20

The upcoming community forums are a good start, but I do not believe they will be an effective process in establishing what we agree on and what we don't. Questions such as the following will need to be asked before we can establish a consensus on the future direction of the New Mardi Gras.

* Why do bisexuals want to be a part of the New Mardi Gras?
* How can the bisexual community show respect to the already established gay and lesbian spaces, should bisexual even be involved in everything?

Queer has also been added and I think a similar process needs to be taken with queer community leaders. If we can establish a process where there is an open and fair dialog between us all, I am confident that together we will be able to work out a win/win solution that will take Mardi Gras forward for the next 25 years.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Mon 21 Oct 2002 01:42:10

I agree that there is definitely a presence of the old school ala Stevie Clayton and the like but there seems to be enough new blood to balance it out and I'm sure the newer generation will not accept the bigotry and intolerance of the old.
Some new kids with the old school - Mon 21 Oct 2002 09:54:09

How would the lesbians feel if they did not have a choice about who represents them in Mardi Gras.
- Mon 21 Oct 2002 11:34:48

The matter will be handled more than competently by your peers in the thick of it who, it is worth mentioning, have much broader agendas than just Bi inclusion. For example, Sam Stott is also, but not exclusively, an avid youth policy supporter and Munro has opinion and knowledge on many, many issues.

And to that well informed idiot who said "Gay is Gay and Bi is Bi" and are totally separate, you have no idea what you are talking about honey. It may be that way for you sitting in your ivory tower but the real world is a very different place. Many, many gay men and women have experienced 'straight' experiences with not one bit of regret - many still 'dive in the pond' from time to time to get variety and a different form of loving in their lives. That doesn't mean they are not gay, it means they are honest to the variety of feelings that they have and will not be pidgeon-holed by the community or anyone else for that matter.

It's an issue that has been given the silent go-away treatment by the fearful in our community for far too long. Comments that the bi community is polluting or diluting the gay community only reinforce the eccessive paranoia and total discriminatory behaviour of many of our so-called gay leaders.

Mind you, it is these same leaders who guided us through the mid and late 90s to a point where the irrelevance of Mardi Gras nearly killed it off. It's time for a new open truly inclusive organisation that we can all be proud. And so what if there are some in it that you don't agree with totally. That's what a tolerant world is about and it's about time we, who love to call for tolerance and acceptance of others, starting showing the same.
noisy gypsy - Mon 21 Oct 2002 11:56:35

RW: shame on you for posting such rubbish
it's total stuff and nonsense

- go read SSO and catch up with the current feeling re: NMG and get off the bulletin boards ONCE you have apologised.
B - Mon 21 Oct 2002 13:21:53

http://www.mardigras.org.au/
- Mon 21 Oct 2002 13:23:12

Connected to all this..if inclusion is so important and is acutally the consensus/ zeitgeist of our times then why are we bothering with a New Mardi gras? Surely we don't need to if that is the case. Let's all go on our merry way into that wonderful accepting society. la de da de da....

As a gay man though..I know that the happy inclusive argument aint true and there are only a very few places of which I have the privledge of feeling completely enpowered by them being EXCLUSIVELY (or aleast close to it)gay. There are few places in which I can openly be gay publically.

Bisexuality is different(and go for it if that's your thing) it involves homosexuality but the inclusion/exclusion argument isn't about sex ...it's about gay people just wanting to have a little something for ourselves. All our lives we work with inclusion - within our employment, at school, on the street, on the train, at shops, in our families!!! The parade, the party and just a few venues allow us something different to all that. When I walk into an exclusive gay venue or party I feel something I don't eslewhere, its amazing and unique.

I am sorry bisexuals and straights feel excluded and discriminated in regard to MG and the gay community events and venus, but I can't possilbly see how they can understand what our exlusive membership has meant to us. By effect "bisexuality" means that bisexuals are apart of the straight community as well their connections to the gay community. And it must be noted that bi-sexuality IS acceptable (although at time grudingly)due to its clause of hetrosexual normality to the mainstream. They can handle that..it a redeeming connection even for the most violent homophobes. Whereas EXCLUSIVE shit slamming isn't so palatable out there. But I love it and it takes me to the very core of what and who I am.
Big Poof 2 - Mon 21 Oct 2002 13:57:54

Munro has not been involved in bisexual organisations for a while now, he has returned since the Mardi Gras issue became prominent again. The bisexual community has moved on substantially since Munro was involved, we have become a lot more organised. For example we have our own fund raising parties (Biversity), we have our own lobby group (Bi Pride Australia), we have our own media (bi.org.au), we have our own social groups and activities (Syd BiFems, Syd BiMen etc). We have our own structures, values and culture.

My self and other bisexual community leaders will be having discussions with Munro to determine his involvement in representing bisexual community concerns. But it is my feeling that elected leaders of the bisexual community should be the ones representing bisexual community concerns.

As for those of you who keep repeating that I am being a one issue person because I am talking about bisexual inclusion (what ever that means). You really do not understand how the bisexual community sees its self, we do not consider our selves one community group with in the gay and lesbian community. We are a separate community. We are quite different in some areas and have a lot of specific issues that we have to address. Some of them we should be doing together, some of them we should be doing apart. What things we do together and what things we do apart will need to be discussed between our elected leaders.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Mon 21 Oct 2002 14:05:19

As I have been trying to say, we likely agree on a lot, the problem is that there has been no open dialog to communicate how we should live with each other (or not live with each other).
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Mon 21 Oct 2002 14:52:58

The assumed closed dialog to bisexual membership stems from this. We aren't anti 'you' or bisexuals, we not going to bash you; though we may not choose to sleep or have relationship with you. It's just that 'bisexual' is a very loose term to alot of people and an easy identity to presume in order ot to attain (whatever it is people want from the gay community - which used to be a fabulous party like no other). I know bisexuals that have never had a homosexual experience but feel "attracted to the same sex". Fine. I think women are beautiful too. At Mardi Gras two years ago my boyfriend and I meet two girls that had come with their boyfriends but had decided they would be "bisexual" that night because they felt like they were in Disney Land.(and I suspect the E was kicking in and they absolutely love our costumes) Now I know a gay life can be incrediably magical but it is no Disney production.

My question is this: Why isn't the "homosexual" element (ie gay or lesbian) of bisexual people the basis of their membership to Mardi Gras given that this is what we are celebrating. It's just a couple of nights per year.... We withstand (and have withstood) so much more!!! What is the drama about being gay to be in a gay and lesbian organisation and event, when in part that is what you are?

Maybe now that MG is not so glamourous and coveted by the straight community (becasue they have their own parties) membership won't be a pressing issue this time around, but I would still like the caveat of exclusive homosexual membership just in case.
Big Poof 2 - Mon 21 Oct 2002 16:46:45

Character assassinations are extremely painful and destructive (there are people behind those names!) and I fail what purpose they serve. What is worse is that those undertaking this behaviour do not even have the courage to stand up publicly and state their feelings.

I refer to my earlier posting on this site about the lessons that being taught to our younger generation through the current the Mardi Gras situation. Please do not teach us how to destroy those that exist in our very own community and in turn, the community itself.

Regards

Lou-Anne Lind
Co-President
Sydney PRIDE Centre
- Tue 22 Oct 2002 10:15:54

Simple solution: Make ticket sales independent from the parties. See how many party boys become members then!

I suspect that if the tickets sales and membership link was broken, the membership would twindle down to a level of members who actually care about the direction of the organisatin and could be bothered turning up to forums and AGMs and EGMs, and the rest of it.
- Tue 22 Oct 2002 10:32:38

Pride parties have never suffered from being over-run by the straights so why not simply adopt that policy? It has been tried and tested for the past 10 years.
Membership + Tickets - Tue 22 Oct 2002 10:37:30

I would like to take the opportunity to publicly thank Bi Pride Australia for their support to the former staff members of Mardi Gras. BPA in keeping with their word have established a fund to help the staff at Mardi Gras. This fund was designed to help the staff due to the short falls in their last pay and zero pay out on there entitlements. They have been good on there word and have done just that. While the rest of the community organizations have talked about it and have even used the staff in there promotion of fundraisers. BPA is the only organization that has actually given any one on the staff money for financial assistance. For that I wish to thank them. While everyone else is coming up with excuses and we should do's … this community organization has actually done. On behalf of those staff members I wish to say thank you and your help has been greatly appreciated.

The staff of Mardi Gras have learned this last week that GEERS the Government program that is suppose to pay out there entitlements will only be paying out a portion. At this time I would like to ask the communities support in writing letters to the administrators that the remaining balance of 76,000 of entitlements not be wiped off the books but the funds from the proceeds from the sale of assets go to pay off this debt. That any and all fundraisers that say they are raising to help pay back the staff do so. Ask about it, be vocal about it and maybe some of this money will make it back to those that have committed their time, energies and efforts to Mardi Gras.

Again a huge thank you to Bi Pride Australia for their support to the community.

Lisa Grubb
Former Finance and Admin Manager
SGLMG
- Tue 22 Oct 2002 21:35:17

And good on you Bi Pride for getting together that money. I heard a number of people murmuring about doing just that but I didn't realise that somebody actually did it.
groundhog day - Wed 23 Oct 2002 16:21:21

Its hard to hear when a former person that you have worked with has had to move cause they could not pay rent, or can't pay a utility bill. BPA was ever so kind to help at this level and for that I was thanking them. As for the rest I was just asking for help. We have been told that we will need to fight if we wish these entitlements, some of us have sought legal advise, union advise, and IR advice. I am not saying this is NMG's responsibility to pay but the VA to ensure that it is paid. If I have offended someone in not acknowledging the work my apologies this was not the intention of the post. The intentions was to thank BPA for there donation and to make the community aware of what the staff were being told.
- Wed 23 Oct 2002 22:12:14

If you all put yourself in the situation of suddenly being caught short in your wages and trying to cope with your normal weekly outgoings Im sure alot would find it tough. Add to this the fact that some have found it difficult to find new employment. Now Geers is saying they will only pay portions and the VA's saying they will only pay portions. I can fully understand why there are old staffers financially stressed and concerned that they will never see all they are entitled to. Good on you Bi Pride Australia for helping where there has been hardship.
MHS - Thu 24 Oct 2002 09:06:23

My problem is that I don't support the Deed of Arrangement. I agree with Groundhog Day that the amounts of money offered, while well meaning, are setting this new organsiation up for a big fall. I think it is a well meaning attempt to fix past problems but is irresponsible in terms of the financial future of MG. But its done now.

So I'm not planning on donating any money to NMG and the DOA. Personally (and I know a lot of people will disagree with me) I'd rather see the DOA fall flat on its face before NMG (and the community ) is up to its neck again in debt it can't pay. But, I am keen to help out the employees who have't been fortunate enough to find new work. So how do I donate money to this fund set up by Bi Pride?
ET - Thu 24 Oct 2002 10:29:58

As I have been saying on this wall and to anyone who will listen to me. A balanced viewpoint on our new coalition would be to do some things together as one community, while other things that have cultural relevance should be done by the individual constituent groups.

When we work as one we are a lot more powerful! While when we work individually we can celebrate what is really important to us!

As I see it we currently have two priorities that it would be advantageous for us to work together on:-

1) Getting the $150,000 by the 18th of November
2) Ensuring that the ex-staff of SGLMG do not suffer any additional serious financial hardship

To assist with these shared goals I will be personally donating $1000.00 to the AIDS Trust Mardi Gras Fund, I am requesting that $500.00 is ear marked for NMG, while $500.00 is ear marked for a Staff Emergency Fund. (Can someone from the AIDS Trust let me know if this is possible?)

I encourage other individuals to make a similar contribution, I know a lot of you out there are significantly better off financially than I, so perhaps the donations could be larger. May be we can place on the New Mardi Gras site the names of people who have donated over a certain amount (with their permission of course).

Sincerely,
Glenn Vassallo
Co-President
Bi Pride Australia
glenn@bi.org.au | http://bi.org.au/bpa/
- Thu 24 Oct 2002 11:59:04

I think the majority of the community has spoken with their wallets. They don't care. You can't fight progress, even if progress means we should dump the whole idea.

Lets come up with something completely new and different! Now there is a concept - and possibly true progress.
- Fri 25 Oct 2002 20:00:38

I assume that, in accordance with you ascertain, every person who attended every SGLMG event in the past (parties, festival events, free events, etc) agreed with every aspect of the organisation's Constitution and Mission Statement?

I think that the majority of participants and attendees wouldn't have had much of a clue about the Constition or Mission Statement, and perhaps hadn't even read them.

I'm not talking about 'you' specifically, or anyone else in particular, for that matter.

But surely if someone doesn't agree with your DoA, you might want to educate and discuss it with them, rather than simply insult them.

How on earth do you people expect to garner and sustain support?
An out of towner (who, as a result of most of your attitudes, couldn't give a damn about the DoA, NMG or the like...) - Mon 28 Oct 2002 19:11:18

Make your suggestions here, or on their website.
Panther - Mon 28 Oct 2002 21:30:18

Collapses don't happen just like that. It takes alot of time and alot of people contribute to them. Stop blaming the last board - it would've happened regardless of who was in charge.
- Tue 29 Oct 2002 10:24:58

They have put in many many hours of their time for zero dolars. They were at risk of being sued for what happened. They suffered personal attacks from many in the community. They have definitely not walked away.

Boy Wonder - Contractors are not employees. I believe some contractors are among the general creditors and may eventually recieve a few cents in the dollar.
Arti - Wed 30 Oct 2002 08:00:17

xane
- Wed 30 Oct 2002 18:21:45

xane
- Thu 31 Oct 2002 20:32:30

Secondly, I hope the suggestion that the new Mardi Gras Board structure represent organisations such as the Adelaide Festival and ALSO Foundation is a joke. Who came up with that brillant idea? The cultural director.
- Wed 13 Nov 2002 00:09:23

http://www.mardigras.org.au/dodo_or_phoenix.doc

http://www.mardigras.org.au/new_structure.doc

http://www.mardigras.org.au/constitution.doc

before the slander starts, let's remember that these were put together by volunteers from the constitution committee. so be a little kind people. also there is information about the consultation forums and there is not one this week but next week.

i think this is where the important work should take place not all this rubbish about parties, celebraties etc. i don't know know why the new mardi gras board is focusing on that instead of the work being done by this particular committee. the names of the people on the committee are also on the website. they are Murray McLachlan (board co-chair), Lou-Anne Lind (community co-chair), Rathana Chea, Nici Clayhills, Larry Galbraith, Gerard Gooden, Kathy Sant, Munro Saunders, David Scamell and Sam Stott.

a good line up of people. some younger people plus some members of the old guard. good to see a young person in a leadership position rather than the usual tokenism. so all up, it's not so bad.
FYI - Pinkboard readers - Wed 13 Nov 2002 09:09:03

Bi Pride Australia New Mardi Gras Committee (BPA NMG Committee)

Bi Pride Australia has elected a new committee. The purpose of this committee is two fold; the first task is to determine what the bisexual community desires via their involvement with the New Mardi Gras. The second task of this committee is to communicate this to the appointed leaders of the New Mardi Gras.

4 people have been elected to the committee, 2 women and 2 men. Elections were done via Bi Pride Australia's membership, which contains most of Australia's bisexual community leaders and activists (a very diverse bunch indeed!)

This committee was also endorsed at a joint Bi Pride Australia and Australian Bisexual Network meeting held during the 7th International Conference On Bisexuality held in Sydney (25th – 28th Of October 2002)

Elected Representatives Of Bi Pride Australia's New Mardi Gras Committee are:-

Michael Wynter (Biversity, Sydney Bisexual Network)
Yasmin Greenhalgh (Sydney Bi Fems, Biversity)
Glenn Vassallo (Bi Pride Australia, Sydney Bi Men)
Lizz Kopecny (Bi Pride Australia, Sydney Bi Youth)

For further information contact the BPA NMG Committee at newmardigras@bi.org.au
- Wed 13 Nov 2002 12:29:17

It is also important to note that many consider Mardi Gras a Sydney based event, in fact the 4 groups that initiated the New Mardi Gras are all Sydney based.
- Wed 13 Nov 2002 14:50:45

Community forum #1
· Wednesday 20 November 2002, 7-9pm, The Mardi Gras Building, Erskineville
· Pre-consultation briefing (6.15-7pm) on consultation process and the two discussion papers: A new structure for Mardi Gras and Issues for the Mardi Gras constitution
· Discussion on purpose and objectives of a new Mardi Gras
· Discussion on membership issues

Community groups meeting #1
· Wednesday 27 November 2002, 7-9pm, The Mardi Gras Building, Erskineville
· Pre-consultation briefing (6.15-7pm) on consultation process and the two discussion papers: A new structure for Mardi Gras and Issues for the Mardi Gras constitution
· Discussion on company structure options, particularly role of community groups and organisations.

I don't think that the web information can be more consultative or comprehensive.
Gay Fly - Wed 13 Nov 2002 16:06:09

Mardi Gras: dodo or phoenix? (background paper) www.mardigras.org.au/dodo_or_phoenix.doc

A new structure for Mardi Gras (discussion paper) www.mardigras.org.au/new_structure.doc

Issues for the Mardi Gras constitution (discussion paper) www.mardigras.org.au/constitution.doc

Consultation timeframe
www.mardigras.org.au/consultations.doc

An email comment facility has been provided through constitution@mardigras.org.au

The first community consultation meeting will be held on Wednesday 20 November 2002, at the Mardi Gras Building, Erskineville (Cnr Gowrie Street and Erskineville Road) from 7-9pm. The forum will provide the opportunity for discussion of the purpose and objectives of Mardi Gras, and of membership issues. The forum will be preceded by a briefing on the two discussion papers from 6.15-7pm.

Murray McLachlan
Co-chair, New Mardi Gras Constitution Committee
- Thu 14 Nov 2002 16:32:41

It's a matter of course, in organisations and groups involving young peoples' participation, that membership is FREE to all under 18 years.

And if we are serious about equal age of consent, then we should be endorsing free membership for those under 18, with voting rights for those over 16 years.

I have posted this to constitution@mardigras.org.au.
Gay Fly - Sun 17 Nov 2002 14:28:08

1. Had there been any discussion as to what the new organisation will be called? ie. Queer MG? or Pride MG? or dare i say it SGLMG?

2. Who gets to vote on what the new constitution looks like? what about the name? who is eligible to vote and how do they register?
Generation Y'er with a 5 sec attention span. - Mon 18 Nov 2002 00:54:25

Finally, I think you give yourself away when you sign off saying you have a 5 second attention span. The constitutional issues that our community has to deal with needs, and deserves more than 5 seconds attention paid to them.
- Mon 18 Nov 2002 07:49:46

I just want to understand it all without having to wade through a whole bunch of different documents looking for the one or two things that i'm interested in.

And as for having a 5 sec attention span, well if you want youth participation, you'd better get used to it!!! ....unless of course you're only interested in having law students on every committee who are going to wind up running the damn thing in 20 years time. All the "youth participation" policy is doing then speeding up that process of the next clone in charge.

btw, does anyone have any answers to the questions i posted above?
Generation Y'er with a 5 sec attention span - Mon 18 Nov 2002 10:48:34

The document is written in plain English...not legalese...by Lou-Anne Lind and Sam Stott...for dodos like you and me.
Gay Fly - Mon 18 Nov 2002 11:54:37

Anyway, if you're prepared to give more than 5 seconds - say about 2 - 3 hours - you should come to the first constitutional forum at the Mardi Gras building this Wednesday, 20 November. There's a briefing on the two discussion papers between 6.15pm and 7pm and the forum itself starts at 7pm.
The trouble with democracy is it takes up people's time - Mon 18 Nov 2002 14:42:12

1. The question of what the new organisation will be called depends on what type of organisation it will be, and who will be part of that organisation i.e gay, lesbian, transgender as SGLMG, or inclusive of Bi, Queer, straight etc. At this point the decision hasnt been made - that is why the community forums are taking place.

2. Once the debates have been had in the community over the questions like the one that you have posted, the New Mardi Gras Constitutional committee will draft a new constitution based on the community consultation process, which will be presented to the four members of New Mardi Gras Pty Ltd - ACON, Queerscreen, PRIDE, and the Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby- who will then vote on the constitution to be adopted.

So basically in order to have your say on what you think the new mardi gras should be like, you should come along to forums, or if you cant make it, go to the New Mardi Gras website, and post your ideas and suggestions directly to the Constitutional Committee.

In regards to the discussion that has taken place around Gen Y'ers post, I think that Gen Y'er was not asserting that younger people dont care about these issues, but rather constitutional processes can sometime's be a bit dry for most people ( even older people and young law students), and therefore through procedure exclude alot of people.

As was mentioned in one of the response posts, a document on the website "A New Structure for Mardi Gras" outlines all the main issues in a non-legal way. I suggest having a look at that doc, as it is a good outline of what is taking place over the next few months.

Finally, to Gen Y'er and all younger people who want to get involved in forming and shaping the future of our mardi gras, an e-group is being established which will be a discussion and information point for young GLBTIQ people. Please note that this e-group is informal, and not a part of the New Mardi Gras structure.
If you want to join the list you can email nmgyouth-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or email me at davids@glrl.org.au

cheers,
Dave Scamell
member of New Mardi Gras Constitutional Committee
- Mon 18 Nov 2002 16:51:33

panther@pinkboard.com.au