It is the middle of the 99 Mardi Gras Festival and
there is increasing criticism being directed at the organisation.
You are welcome to discuss these topics here.
Let's have an adult discussion: If you wish to dispute someone's point, attack the point and not the person.
A 78er - Mon Feb 15 12:43:59 1999
To add to my earlier comment. I was listening to The Mavi's from the pool. The volume was great there, but I agree that closer it would have been a worry.
A 78er - Mon Feb 15 12:46:22 1999
Mardi Gras Fair Day my analysis (for what is is worth) - Started by Wendy Brady, a member of the Fair Day Committee, handed to an indigenous elder to open the day, and away we went. It appears that most of the people posting here didn't get there earlier enough to see the couples 'Say I do'. Let's hope these same people dont't start criticising ignorantly, as many were to me at the pub last night. Thanks MG for having the 'balls', finally, to show us something that was emotional, political and significant. It certainly showed who cared and who couldn't give a damn in the way the after day conversations went. Most who criticised the ceremonies, after mild questioning, didn't arrive until 12.30+. The people involved were wonderful, received the type of ceremony that they wanted as individual couples (Pagan & Traditional) and Bruno did the rest with the political wrap from hell - it is just a shame that 10,000 don't turn up to Parliament House to make the point to the people who can change the silly bloody law. The rest of the afternoon's entertainment on the main stage was balanced with what was provided 'free-of-charge' by South Sydney Council, allowing for the biggest entertainment budget ever (I'm told). Wasn't it great to see so many gay, lesbian and queer performers working? The Lake Stage had 150+ members of the community tread its boards during the day, and ran on time! Regarding the BGF debacle - perhaps the solution was for BGF to just do it until a legal process could have been ascertained. Given the closeness of the Mayor (who's Council controls the park) to very strong supporters of BGF, the matter could have been dealt with quickly and promptly without confrontation. Many collectors ignored the MG directive anyway and did what they were there to do - give up their own time to collect for a cause they believed in. Finally, thanks to the medical team and Happy for looking after the very stubborn 'show must go on' very ill member of the 'team' - I and he will never forget your love and attention. Oh and yes Panther - if they get any shorter you'll be arrested.
Normally one to complain - Mon Feb 15 15:10:40 1999
dear 'normally one to complain', I didn't comment on the things I didn't see of hear about on the day. I was aware of the committmtne tceremony and more power to them
A 78er - Mon Feb 15 15:22:32 1999
I'm just as amazed 78er! Mardi Gras should be promoting and supporting GLBT and HIV/AIDS organisations that do most of the work for our community. Instead Mardi Gras attack them like they are competition, our community is not about corporate takeovers and market share! It is about people.
Educate..who is really disgusted over what happened to BGF. - Mon Feb 15 15:55:43 1999
Fastlove, biphobia is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed (the stories of biphobic violence, discrimination and plain insults I heard is frightening!!) The exclusion of bisexuals from Mardi Gras is just an example of institutionalised biphobia, and it sends out a message to the whole GLBT community that bisexuals are second class citizen not worthy of the respect to be included in Mardi Gras. Surely you can see how damaging this is to the self esteem of bisexual people and how it gives justification to biphobic people to continue to discriminate. Why do you think bisexuals threaten Gay culture so much, is it not strong enough to continue to thrive as it has done, or are you just wanting to continue the oppression and invisibility of bisexual people for some other reason?
Educate - Mon Feb 15 17:45:30 1999
If it's true that MG denied BGF "permission" to collect cash on Fair Day, I'm not particularly surprised: MG has been raking in money from the BGF raised seating ever since it first started. By taking a percentage (almost a third last year) of the funds BGF raises through selling the grandstand seating, MG is effectively imposing a tax on BGF, something not even the *Federal government* does to charities.
Mon Feb 15 18:38:13 1999
I hear that the Fortress has been under seige all day over its appalling treatment of BGF. Tut, Tut. It's pretty obvious we should give up on the possibility of a united 2002 games altogether, give the games away, and concentrate on getting our own collective shops in order. The rot of yesterday only strenghtens the anti-2002 debate. The Gay Gaymes will need every volunteer from every organisation in Sydney to make it work - at present this is a total pipe dream and unless someone, preferbaly MG, takes the lead towards unity, we will be the collective laughing stock of Australia. Little wonder we can't get equal rights through parliament - MPs of all colours have sources deep into our community and they know we are a dis-unified mess. Wake up people or perish.
Homer - Mon Feb 15 19:23:46 1999
dear homer, "Wake up" indeed, especially to our 'community leaders': to Mardi Gras. I had actually forgotten the fact that the gay Gaymes are due to be here in 2002. Well, my friends in Chicago called me last night to ask if what they have read in their press is true? "Has MG stopped a bisexual man from joining their organisation?" "I thought they were leaders in your community?" Comments like this go to show our deteriorating international profile. Wait until the BGF fiasco and the Luncheon Club fiasco hits the international Gay Press. Well done Mardi Gras, well done.
A 78er - Tue Feb 16 0:39:46 1999
Are there any investigative journalists reading this? Can you sort out the truth in all this rumour and innuendo?
Tue Feb 16 9:05:03 1999
Just how much crap are we going to put up with from the current board? Blatant and hypocritical discrimination against some of the people we love and enjoy sex with (bisexuals), the BGF disgrace at Fair Day, the Danni and Barnsey show, the Leeson/Cobden stranglehold on our parties. When will all this stop? I can only think the next AGM. We must all be there. Does anyone know roughly when it is due?
Technowarrior - Tue Feb 16 9:40:42 1999
To be honest, I am hoping that more than one journalist is. I know Stay In Touch is reading it along with quite a few international GLBT organisations. The truth of the rot is spreading.
Tue Feb 16 9:44:48 1999
Normally one to complain - I didn't get to fair day, but I was interested to read your comments on the commitment ceremonies. I'm glad they worked for the people who took part. What I find odd however, is that Mardi Gras is prepared to promote these events - as part of the campaign for legal recognition of relationships - but its leadership is not prepared to support a Bill that will (1) enable people in relationships to make commitments to each other, have their relationship legally recognised, and have their rights guaranteed without having to do anything else, will also (2) provide a safety net for people who don't want to take that step - similar to what exists for de facto relationships, and (3) will give legal recognition to relationships where people don't live together, or for various reasons, don't want to tell the world or the courts that their relationship is a sexual one - ie don't want to "out" themselves to assert their rights. That Bill is Clover Moore's Significant Personal Relationships Bill. It's a much better Bill that the Lobby's bill - yet Mardi Gras' leadership backs the Lobby Bill over Clover's. Perhaps now, with the commitment ceremonies being a success - people out there might star thinking about the kind of legal recognition they really want - rather than settling for the legal recognition the community elite (including the Mardi Gras leadership and its allies) have decided they are going to get. Interested in people's comments.
lgalbraith@wr.com.au - Tue Feb 16 10:09:09 1999
dear larry, an interesting pint about the GLRL Bill Vs Clover's Bill. This issue may well be raised this weekend on Kevin Klehr's programme on OUT.FM but in a rather unique forum, that of polyamoury. I think that our culture tends to embrace such a dynamic of relationship, yet many people (in 'authority') shy away from addressing this very real issue. This is not meant to detract from monogomous issues as this (in itself) is something that organisations such as MG is supposed to be leading us in. I note the calls over the last few years for these relationships to be legally recognised. At the very least, co-habitation issues should be addressed in a defacto sense (in my opinion). However, apart from 'calling on the Government' to address these issues, i don't know (and correct me if I am wrong) if Mardi Gras (as ostensible community 'leaders') has actually organised anything which demonstrates its overwhelming committment to this issue (apart from the recent committment ceremony). If this is a new affirmative step by Mardi Gras, then I applaud it and expect to see such things happen regularly at various Mard Gras events. To make a stand on Valentines Day is one thing (it's warm and fuzzy and makes good press) but for MG to make their own committment to support, encourage and promte such ceremonies on a year-round basis may send a stonger message to the legislative powers-that-be.
A 78er - Tue Feb 16 10:35:24 1999
Larry, ours is not to reason why..........
Tue Feb 16 10:36:01 1999
As a Fair Day stall holder, I dug out my copy of the application for stallholders to find out whether or not BGF had breached a general condition of their application. No where does it say you can only collect within your stall. What it does say, however, it that stallholders must obey the instructions of Fair Day officials. To my knowledge, BGF followed these instructions - it was the many other stallholders, the Sisters etc. who defiantly made sure the day was a success for the ill members of ours, and the general community, that BGF supports. So basically, it was the 'instruction' of the Fair Day officials in dispute here. Whether MG likes it or not, BGF is a sacred cow and should be treated as such. BGF is going through its own major management re-think without all the public crap hindering the process. Why, you ask? Because they did it properly by getting professional outside guidance first. The philosophy of no action until the damage is done at MG doesn't work. Similarly it didn't work at Pride either, causing both organisations much public grief over the last year or so. Directors have a responsibility to keep an eye out for this sort of crap before it becomes headlines. The problem, or advantage, with this wall, is that it is not limited to the small, relatively speaking, readership of the SSO & Q - the world can read this - perhaps the Directors of our g&l organisations should wake up to that fact. With small exceptions to keeping relative to the topic, there is no editorial interference on this wall, unlike the SSO & Q who are too gutless to properly address the issues far too often. Thanks Panther, we appreciate the freedom very much.
Homer - Tue Feb 16 10:49:01 1999
There is a message on one of the other Boards - The Festival Board - that states that the decision to attempt to ban BGF from collecting donations at Fair Day was made by the Fair Day Committee Director and backed by the Mardi Gras President. This (of course) is apocryphal until proof can be garnered, but seeing as the message boards are read by activists, journalists and community-members, it may as well be the truth. I haven't heard of a public statement by the MG President regarding this, as yet. Has anyone? If so is the excuse real or is it lip-service?
A 78er - Tue Feb 16 11:28:56 1999
A 78er - I fully support the idea of mardi gras (and anyone else) holding commitment ceremonies - or providing opportunities for people to hold commitment ceremonies which they can design themselve - the whole point of the SPR Bill is to give people *choice* in the way their relationships are recognised. Regarding cohabitation issues - the submission we (the co-author of the SPR Bill and I) have just made to the Social Issues inquiry takes a large axe to the idea that legal recognition of relationships should be based on cohabitation. Last year the SSO published a feature about the census in which the Mardi Gras Prez and his boyf talked about the reasons they didn't live together. That article is in our submission. Interesting the difference between the MG Prez's public political position on legal recognition of relationships is at odds with what he does privately or as MG President - ie backing the commitment ceremonies.
lgalbraith@wr.com.au - Tue Feb 16 11:43:21 1999
Panther - a thought. Why don't you establish a wall related to relationship issues - legal recognition, personal experiences arising from the lack of legal legal recognition. Contrary to what the GLRL would have you believe, the debate is not yet over. As the Lobby admits in the Bride Wore Pink, there is *no consensus* among lesbians and gay men on the best model for legal recognition. I happen to know that submissions have gone to the Social Issues Committee inquiry supporting Clover's SPR Bill over the Lobby Bill. Pinkboard could give people a chance to say what they really want. And if you do establish it - I won't post more than once a day ... all right once every couple of days ...promise. I'm more interested in what other people have to say.
lgalbraith@wr.com.au - Tue Feb 16 11:48:09 1999
I spoke to David Mc on fair day and he complained about the "bully" BGF volunteers and the trouble they had had in keeping them "contained." Basically he confirmed what has been alleged so far on the board.
Tue Feb 16 12:01:01 1999
I spoke to David Mc on fair day and he complained about the "bully" BGF volunteers and the trouble they had had in keeping them "contained." Basically he confirmed what has been alleged so far on the board.
Tue Feb 16 12:01:10 1999
Larry, I understand and agree. The mold of relationships, which can/should be recognised are many and varied. I narrowly used the cohabitation example because it's easiest for people to follow. However, I agree that relationships (especially ours in this community) are more fluid than that. As to the MG President practicing one thing and endorsing something else, well perhaps there is something subtly indicative there. The MG President (I suppose) should be prepared to put his practices where his statements are (and/or vice versa) or perhaps be prepared to give reasons regarding the differences between what he endorses in his 'office' of Presedent and what he prefers privately. Like it or not, the office of Mardi Gras President is somewhat open to scrutiny and comment.
A 78er - Tue Feb 16 12:08:03 1999
re: DMcL and the BGF. Nice to know that the issue is somewhat confirmed. BGF being bullies? I can suppose that they (like the bisexual members of the community) are simply standing up to unfair treatment by (what appears to be) an unjust organisation, which purports to represent them and the community. I like the comment of "keeping them contained" sounds a little draconian. I also believe that not only is MG HQ under seige (from outraged Luncheon Club, BGF and Bisexual supporters) by email and letters, but also from phone call s from the media and outraged members of the community whicg MG are supposed to represent and show leadership to. The more pressure which can be brought to bear on this (now, apparently) narrow-focussed organisation, the better.
A 78er - Tue Feb 16 12:16:39 1999
Using the "cultural purity" argument to defend the policy of bisexual exclusion is a little like saying "I'm not phobic, but I don't want bis moving in next door. They'll lower the tone of the neighbourhood." All cultures change. Cultures either evolve to accommodate the changing needs of those they serve or they die. What aspects of g&l culture do you wish to preserve so conservatively? What purpose would a strictly separatist culture serve gays and lesbians in 1999? Separatism is a myth. There's more to Australia than Darlinghurst, darlings. Get out of the ghetto and enjoy the real world.
GhettoBlaster - Tue Feb 16 12:40:37 1999
talking about getting out into the real world ghettoblaster, reminds me that what is going on with the MG-Biphobia issue is a microcosm of what is ailing the rest of the world as well. What was once my refuge has bought into the rest of the world's sordid mess.
Tue Feb 16 12:46:13 1999
Mardi Gras sent a standard letter to all community stall-holders in January regarding no cash collection outside of the immediate stall area at Fair Day. BGF responded, in wirting, late January, to the General Manager of Mardi Gras pointing out its charitable status and requesting the same conditions, restrictions etc. as the 1998 Fair Day (which allowed for controlled collection). No written reply was ever received from MG. Please don't kick the Fair Day Committee too hard over this (they did an enormous job), it's the same old problem of internal communication and arrogance once again. When are MG going to deal with the Directors constantly having to cover for the senior staff's inadequacies. It is totally unfair that Fair Day Director, Ilana Kaplin, has to take the blame solely on this one.
Good One MG of MG - Tue Feb 16 13:00:42 1999
You know, I don't think anyone here is saying that Fair Day was bad. There are issues which need to be addressed, yes, but overall it was good. However, the Bobby Goldsmith Foundation issue is an issue pertaining to -allegedly- 2 people; The Fair Day Director and the Mardi Gras President. Regarding the written nature of the communication between The Bobby Goldsmith Foundation and Mardi Gras, no there was -allegedly- no written reply received by the Bobby Goldsmith Foundation regarding their request for continuing the 1998 status of cash-collectors. However, there were telephone conversations between the two organisations after the Stall-notices had gone out. This is what inflamed the issue. The Bobby Goldsmith Foundation were -allegedly- specifically told that they would not be allowed to do their normal cash-collection at Fair Day, in these discussions. The Bobby Goldsmith Foundation -allegedly- responded that it is a public park and that they are a registered charity, with X-years connection to the community, etc... (I would assume that they also asked why they would not be allowed as well). You know, in a way it may have been better had the cash-collectors not been allowed in the park, but been kept outside on the footpaths. That way, it would have made a better photo-opportunity for the media to illustrate how Mardi Gras -apparently- treats it's charitable community organisations.
Tue Feb 16 13:23:51 1999
Larry you know yourself how the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Cocktail Cabinet works as a branch of the ALP. Just look at the way the ACON hacks dropped a very badly needed campaign so as not to embarrass the Carr Government. My question is - how popular is David McLachlan Murdoch with the real power behind the throne after what he said about Carr at the launch? Is another Patmore Solution being organised at this very moment?
The Phantom Insider - Tue Feb 16 14:16:58 1999
The President has been heard on Out-FM defending his staff members' neglect again - I defer all to last year's mishaps. Oh dear, are all directors expendable due to the way the office runs (or doesn't, as the case may be). These directors are our representatives (and accountable to us), the staff are their servants on behalf of us - it's about time the organisation ran this way. At $70k, MG can expect a better standard of performance by its GM who must have known the letter from BGF needed 'special' attention.
Here we go again - damn, I thought it was all over - silly me - Tue Feb 16 14:53:15 1999
Could someone give a condensed version of what was said on OUT.FM by the Mardi Gras President?
Tue Feb 16 15:06:29 1999
"Every organisation that forgets about the people who give it power and, instead, concentrates of keeping its secrets, keeping its perks, maintaining its rituals and preserving its own hide, eventually implodes. Day by day the International Olympic Committee proves its self more and more incapable of rising above the corruption scandal surrounding it and further and further from the honesty and openness that the Olympic Games represents." SMH 16/2/99 Opinion, David F. D'Alessandro president and chief operating officer of John Hancock Financial Services - a major international sponsor of the Olympic Movement. Just substitute Mardi Gras board for Olympic Committee and you could sum up the situation our community is currently in. How long will it be before we end up reading a similar article in Q or the Star from one of Mardi Gras' sponsors?
mcmc - Tue Feb 16 16:30:07 1999
What has Poland done to deserve David McLachlan. Surely one dictator this century is enough!
Tue Feb 16 17:53:56 1999
That's Hitler and Stalin
ska - Tue Feb 16 18:28:46 1999
Okay. Two is more than enough. It doesn't need a third.
Wed Feb 17 0:41:26 1999
Actually, I would also like to know what The MG President has said in his (and MGs) defense, on OUT.FM.
A 78er - Wed Feb 17 8:16:19 1999
Actually, I would also like to know what The MG President has said in his (and MGs) defense, on OUT.FM.
A 78er - Wed Feb 17 8:29:17 1999
What'a Poland got to do with David mcLachlan ?
cheche - Wed Feb 17 8:30:48 1999
Poland is where Rob Patmore now lives. It's connection to DMcL - I don't know.
Wed Feb 17 8:38:36 1999
Psst! Like I said last night in another place. Hey! remember that there was a thing in CapQ about Bisexuals sending a violence threat into Mardigras about the launch - and that there was, supposedly, a warning from the Security employed by Mardi Gras to keep an eye on the Bisexuals during the launch? Well CapQ also said that David Mclachlan stated that he, nor Mardi Gras, knew nothing about it. Well, guess what? The Security is employed by Mardigras, so why would they just decide to keep an eye on the Bisexuals? Also, according to this insiders sources, the person who gave the Bisexuals their official warning was none other than the ex Mardi Gras head-of-security, this years Parade Co-ordinator. Now, if Mardi Gras knew nothing about the warning being given, why would someone of that caliber be the one to warn the Bisexuals off? Hmmmmm? More cover-ups to follow.
A Phantom Insider - Wed Feb 17 8:44:00 1999
Welcome to the team ghettoblaster. I agree with every word you typed.
Technowarrior - Wed Feb 17 9:11:40 1999
 How
about commenting on so much of the good that comes out of Mardi Gras. Without
Mardi Gras the month of Feb would be just like every other...I for one would
miss it greatly. If people keep bitching and whining about every detail,
without getting the entire story, there is a good chance that the board
of Mardi Gras could be pushed out in place of inexperienced members with
little clue of how to run the organisation. I know that this seems simplistic
and I know I'll get shit flung back at me, but it seems to me that know
matter what the current board does, there is always something terribly wrong.
Imagine being on the board next year. What decisions would you make? Would
they be accepted by every member? How would you cope working long hours
for no payment, and then having every piece of your work picked over and
pissed on by people who in many cases are not in possission of all of the
facts and issues surrounding decisions.The board cannot possibly consult
each member on every issue. They were elected to make decisions, and some
of those made will not make each one of us happy. But get some perspective
guys. The launch, Fair day, Festival events such as the Pool Party etc give
me so much happiness and pride. You may have noticed I have made no reference
to people of specfic events because I do not have any connection to the
board or any inside knowledge about decisions etc. I read the papers (but
most of what is written in there is slanted against Mardi Gras) and attend
some events, and I talk to friends, who like me enjoy so much of what MG
(a non-profit organisation) provides and arranges for its members. blue ridge mountain boy - Tue Feb 16 23:26:47 1999 |
A 78er - Wed Feb 17 10:22:35 1999
Without MG, blue ridge, the parade and pride of the people who take a stand for who they are would continue. Don't you get it? We ain't there for MG. It's there for us. And our self worth is larger than a single organisation or event. As for inexperienced members geting in - well that's why you open up the possibilities for as wide a group as possible - to share the experience around. Not clutch tightly onto power. I don't really care to comment on the rest of your letter except to remind you that what makes the fair day, pool party etc so powerful is you. You attending and you giving voice by being visible. This would happen in any situation where numbers gathered together. The organisation running these empowering events, on the other hand, is going way off rails with many of it's members and is making decisions for which it must be held accountable. And finally I know what's it's like to work long hours for no pay to have every piece of work pissed on by ignoramuses. You pick yourself up and start again. So that's no excuse either.
GG - Wed Feb 17 10:44:28 1999
GG, actually (in relation to 'picking yourself up, etc...) you listen to the criticisism and abuse; distill the issues from any vitriol; see if the alternatives suggested are really workable; see if they can be implemented and then implement them. Sorry, work getting in the mix here
A 78er - Wed Feb 17 10:57:48 1999
The bisexual debate and their worthy fight can be summed up in one sentence, shamelessly lifted from the SSO 11/2/99. "The [MG Launch] evening ended with a mass chant, led by [Vanessa] Wagner, of: 'The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.'"
Wed Feb 17 12:20:07 1999
To cheche - see message left on Tue Feb 16 14:16:58 1999 - Is another Patmore Solution being organised at this very moment? - The Phantom Insider
Wed Feb 17 13:15:29 1999
what was/is the 'Patmore Solution'? You are being at your cryptic best, Phantom.
keanu - Wed Feb 17 13:22:47 1999
What indeed was the Patmore solution and what issue(s) does it refer to?
Wed Feb 17 13:25:05 1999
The Patmore solution was to shaft him and kick him out
Another Phantom insider - Wed Feb 17 13:42:49 1999
He was not providing leadership to the organisation and was making some not very good decisions, and you guessed it, Cobden and Harben planted Bev in his place. It was fortunate that in the most part she was a good president, although at times she was pretty lame and nothing more than a pawn.
Wed Feb 17 13:46:14 1999
Impeach McDictator? Excellent! On the grounds of misrepresenting the community? Misrepresenting community groups? On the grounds of insulting 8.8 thousand members with his straight approach to Mardi Gras? Excellent! Impeach away, you have my vote!
Wed Feb 17 13:48:36 1999
Call an Extraordinary General Meeting! One months notice is all you need (by law) and if you call it now, there will be Press galore because of the Festival being on. Excellent! I hope the media have seen these notices.
Wed Feb 17 13:53:20 1999
But darls you need resolutions for an EGM. Resolutions sweetie resolutions. And at least 200 members must requisition the company in writing before the directors are bound to call such a meeting. And then the directors have up to 2 months to convene the meeting from the date of deposit of the requisition. It will probably be time for the next AGM by the time this procedure is gone through in any case.
Corporations Law - Wed Feb 17 15:22:22 1999
tick, tick, tick.....
Wed Feb 17 16:53:21 1999
Perhaps A 78er or anyone else out there who feels they may like a place on the board of MG, or who feels the current board is misrepresenting the community etc could briefly coment on what they would do with issues such as: *keeping membership to MG as gay/lesbian as possible *ensuring all charity organisations have a share in funds raised through events such as fair day *ensuring male & female-only spaces are found at parties, even though the space at present is so limited. Don't forget to include some specifics on how you would consult the 8000 of so membership on so many issues. so that they all feel their opinions are valued and listened to. You may care to add who you would have chosen to launch a commercial record label (one which has the possibility of makinggood money for the community- if successful); add to this a possible list of D.Js for the party, and of course a list of your performers. Then let us see how many of these decisions are popular with all of the whingers and would-be board members out there. Saying that you would would do the " utmost to represent the community and make the decisions which would be best for the majority of them, whilst keeping in mind, and consulting, with other members of the same community" is all when and good, and I truly believe the majority of the board set out to do the same thing, *but* putting this into practise is quite another thing. All I ask is that some balance is placed into these comments- that along with all of the slagging off and the idle bitching is comments on how well MG have planned and organised many of the events.
blue ridge mountain boy - Wed Feb 17 18:05:25 1999
P.S 78er: I do hope that you et al attended all of the strategic planning days & public forums that the current board held to deal with community issues. Such events were advertised in the gay press, and I assume provided members the opportunity to vent criticisms etc. I am sure that attending such forums would be a much more positive way of being heard and sharing your experiences.
blue ridge mountain boy - Wed Feb 17 18:51:16 1999
Dear Blue Ridge - I did attend every forum I was allowed to attend and am aware of the contents of at least two other specifically based ones. I am very concerned that the summary of the draft misses a hell of a lot of what was raised at these forums. Youth especially, was only mentioned as an example, in passing. I am still hoping the next document will be a little more detailed regarding the long-term future of MG and truly addressing the needs of the 'next' generation. We will see. I am still optimistic, despite all the recent bad publicity (some justified, some not), that David and the Board will show the same courage they did on Sunday with the 'Say I Do' Ceremonies, regarding the strategic planning document.
damonofsydney@hotmail.com - Wed Feb 17 19:18:31 1999
yes, get rid of the President and his lackeys. Mardi Gras is for our community not a greedy few.
Wed Feb 17 19:30:05 1999
Hi blue ridge mountain boy, I'm more for changing *keeping membership to MG as gay/lesbian as possible * to *gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT)*
Educate - Wed Feb 17 19:41:21 1999
Hey! blue ridge! How long have you been ainvolved with McMardi Gras? When you can say 21, then you can go up against people from 1978. Apologies A 78er, I just had to leap in. Name describes the Organisation.
Bad is bad no matter what the wrapping - Wed Feb 17 19:44:56 1999
We are still waiting for the draft strategic plan document to be posted on the Mardi Gras web site. It is now over 4 weeks behind schedule. The web site is pretty limited in its coverage of Mardi Gras Festival (only press releases for Mardi Gras Music and Razor Baby)and dull. Has the web master walked?
Wed Feb 17 19:47:19 1999
Those of you wondering who was going to be next on Mardi Gras' hit list. Well add PRIDE to the ever growing list, Mardi Gras are trying to over take PRIDE's main fund raising event the New Years Eve party. So we now have PRIDE, Luncheon Club, BGF and the Bisexual community......who is next??
Wed Feb 17 20:48:07 1999
blue ridge mountain boy - you wouldn't be an associate of pollyantha's would you? You wouldn't be pollyantha would you?
Wed Feb 17 22:14:12 1999
Hey Blue McRidge! Nice to know that you support the biphobic stance against BGF and Luncheon Club! I guess we can all see where your sympathies lie.
I was there in 83 - Wed Feb 17 22:27:40 1999
The Mardi Gras website is useless. It is all on citysearch anyway- if you can be bothered with the 'tour'. I emailed Mardi Gras months back (3 times) and have never ever had a reply. (It was a simple question re dates for 2000 to make holiday plans) If there is so much concern about current Mardi Gras ways, where was everyone at the last AGM? Hope they are there and vote this year.
Vote this time - Thu Feb 18 0:21:14 1999
I'm sorry, but who the hell do bgf think they are??? on sunday they were clearly outside the terms of the licence agreement - the same terms that every other community group managed to abide by. why is it now that bgf start bitchin' about mg when they should accept responsibility for their own actions. Let's try and look at it quite rationally - mg clearly support bgf abd this is evidenced by bgf beig given the licence to collect *solely* at the mg parade as well as the inclusion of "shop till you drop" in the mg festival. bgf are the only community group allowed to cash in on the parade by erecting seating - albeit for a small fee. And this fee os collected *not* for mg's purposes but as a way of ensuring that smaller community groups may also benefit. Further, mg are not required under this licence agreement to match dollar for dollar the bgf contribution - but they do anyway (seems likea real greedy organisation to me). And over the last couple of months, mg have returned around $30,000 to commnity groups via its commuity disbursements fund - again another example of a greedy organisation. And as for the Rainbow Party and the Luncheon Club. Obviously everyone here is in the "know". Well let's have some real facts: carol ann king had no idea about the party until she saw the ads for it; she is only going to get 50% of the profits - actually, make that the *net* profits. It's going to be real interesting to see how much money she does get from st. dawn of the toolshed. It was interesting to see that next to the "dawn stabbed in the back" article in Q last week, a small piece that revealed that mg donated 50 party tickets to the luncheon club. And finally, carol will tell you how much she relies on doing the passouts at the mg parties - one of her major fundraisers. But yet again all you whingers out there choose to ignore the good that mg does. If only life was so simple and we could also ignore whinging c*nts as well.
Phoenix Rising - Thu Feb 18 7:58:05 1999
Well, lets look fiscally, shall we? 50% of net profit is obviously greater than 0% of no profit. This is basic maths. To try to undermine the Luncheon Club's fundraiser is simply disgusting. To claim that only 50% of the net profit is going to an organisation which would not get that extra money is simply figure-juggling and mischievous. Golly! 50 Party tickets (an outlay cost of $0.00) donated to Luncheon club. Not bad as a lame apology or palm-greaser to try to keep those wronged from making waves. Look beyond the surface, people.
AQIS - Thu Feb 18 8:45:26 1999
I notice that Phoenix didn't address Mardi Gras' bisexual issue, I guess that's indicative.
Birdwatcher - Thu Feb 18 8:51:35 1999
"Who the hell do BGF think they are?" One of the premier cahritable organisations in the G&L community, simple really.
Info-boi - Thu Feb 18 8:59:15 1999
AQIS - you seem to be forgetting that without the profits from the party, there would be NO parade and festival. Phoenix Rising - your comments are quite interesting. I have had concerns about the Rainbow Party since it was first mentioned, and even asked here exactly what percentage of the profits would go to the luncheon club. That question was greeted with silence, and at that time there was clearly someone involved with teh Rainbow Party on this board. I do wonder why it is that the BGF need to raise so much money these days. Everyone I know with HIV (myself included) is coping fine these days, thanks to the new treatments (despite occassionally nasty side effects). Re Pride, what the hell do they do for the community? Where does all the money from the NYE party go? A party that I stopped attending three years ago because frankly I think they are shite. I can, however, see where a lot of the money from the MG parties goes - as we'll all see on the 27th. As for claiming that 78ers have more right to be heard than anyone else, what bollocks. Mardi Gras represents the entire gay and lesbian community (and should also represent bi's and transgenders). Therefore each person who identifies with that community and is a member of MG should have an equall right to voice their opinion.
Technowarrior - Thu Feb 18 9:06:41 1999
The rainbow party is donating 100% of it's net profit to the Luncheon club. Dawn doesn't want or need the money. I think Dawn is upset that MG didn't take up her ticketing idea, and David Mc is not an ally like Bev was. Whatever you may say about Dawn, she is not a bad old stick...anyone remember her 70th birthday and how much money that raised ? The only problem I have is that she gives all the money to boy's charities.
give us lesos$ dawn - Thu Feb 18 9:59:52 1999
Dear Blue Ridge, You asked me for some input and so here it is. Disclaimer: This is just off the top of my head, so I'm happy to get constructive criticism and input. "Keeping membership to MG as G&L as possible.": I believe I have already given some ideas on this topic in earlier posts, but I'll summarise. SGLMG was started in 1978 and was all-inclusive, not segregated. Thus I would do my utmost to ensure the mainenance of G&L culture by ensuring that Gay Men, Lesbians, Transgender persons and Bisexuals were given either automatic entry (with nominators of course) *or* I would make the 'appeals' process a true 'appeals' process where people who are initially rejected have their supporting documentation actually looked at and taken into account. If (for some *real* reason) a membership was rejected, I would consider having another tier of membership (such as that which I proposed for supportive hetrosexual persons) which would *not* have MG Party or Sleaze ticket rights, nor voting rights, but recieved both supporting businesses-discounts and discounts to Mardi Gras Events. "Charitable organisations being given a share of monies raised at events such as Fair Day": This would, of course, be dependent on what you actually mean. If you refer to a donation of funds from proifit derived from (eg.) Fair Day, then I would need to see the current policy to comment of form an ammendment. My thoughts on *collecting* monies, though, would be to allow any registered community-based charities to openly collect throughout the Fair Day area (or at any other open-area event). However, if they were not community-based charities, they would then be restricted to an area around their stand. Of course some of these would have to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, but I think that this is more equitable. "Male & Female spaces at parties." This has always been contentious, but my feelings are that a female only space is important and so, to is a male-only space, but not for the same reasons. There have been demands for a Male-Only space (not the toilets, that was an insult) and that would be honoured - even if there was to be a portable aream erected for such. "Consultation of 8,000 members" For all issues which really concerned the community, I believe that I would institute an emailing programme (blind-list) which would send announcements out to all who elected to sign onto the service. I would also make it a point to send a simple hard-copy of this mailer regularly out to those without email, possibly once-per-month. Also, I would expect that Board-members would look to keeping an eye on community notice-board areas for community feedback. In regards to "launching a record label". I wouldn't have done it without community/membership consultation. If the money were available, then I would look to see what would be appropriate (with such consultation - even publicly calling for community comment). "A list of DJs?" I haven't commented on this, but I would probably take the same approach as the current Board on this issue, I'd call for a demo tape from all of them, unless I personally knew of their talent. The list of performers? Well that is something that is always open for speculation and I am a supporter of having community-based performers and/*or* performers who actively and openly support the community. Therefore, these are the people who would be asked firstly. Then as 'headliners' I would probably call for a poll in S.S.O and/or Q to ask who the community wanted. Then tally these responses and see the appropriateness of the choices. Then, approach those who fit the community wishes mostly. Of course not everyone will be happy with the final choices, but the consultative process would have been observed and honestly used. Of course, as I stated above, these are just off the top of my head. In regards to the strategic planning meetings, yes I did attend all that I could (ie: all that were publicly available). I was also amazed to see how much of the relevant discussions were glossed over or omitted. To attend these meetings does not mean that your view will be taken as serious. The Board forgets that there are many people in the membership and the community with as much experience as they have (if not more). Their POV's are equally valid, and if they don't agree with a POV, it's generally because they have the experience that backs the opinion up.
A 78er - Thu Feb 18 10:31:25 1999
100% of the Net profits that is, after naughty Dawn has taken her slice of the cake out!
Pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow - Thu Feb 18 10:48:43 1999
Hi Techno, good to see you back. I think AQIS was referring to the Rainbow Party and the percentage of moneies from that going to Luncheon club (I am assuming that you were referring to the MG/Sleaze parties). The comment, after techno's, states that 100% of the profits are going to Luncheon Club. I have no idea about Pride, so I'm leaving that alone - although to subsume an 'alternative (as in organised) dance party' needs to be looked at closely. One doesn't want to see a monopoly forming. Regarding the comment about 78ers having more of a say in matters than anyone else....er...no. As a member *and* 78er, I have the same say in the operations of Mardi Gras as any other member. Just how much of a say that ends up being is (perhaps) one of the subjects open to debate here.
A 78er - Thu Feb 18 10:59:17 1999
Naughty Dawn? Tsk tsk tsk. Raising money for Luncheon Club! Naughty, naughty Dawn. Without her, that donation of 100% of the net profits wouldn't even exist! So, naughty naughty Dawn. whaddya want Pot'O'Gold, 100% of the net profits, or nothing at all?
Leprachaun - Thu Feb 18 11:07:37 1999
Thanks, A 78er, the comments were about Rainbow Party profits not Mardi Graft party profits.
AQIS - Thu Feb 18 11:43:02 1999
Hey! I agree! Call for an Extraordinary General Meeting! If you get 200 signatures you can present the call, with reasons for the call, to the Board this month. If you copy it to the media it'll cause a storm of publicity. If they ignore it, then they're in breach of guidelines.
Mardi Gras for the people - Thu Feb 18 11:48:33 1999
Some more thoughts on the bisexual discrimination matter.
mcmc@netspace.net.au - Thu Feb 18 11:58:11 1999
Many times on the dance floor we've heard the samples "Free at last, free at last" and "I have a dream" (Farley Jack Master Funk and various others). These words of Martin Luther King Jr are catch phrases of the modern civil rights movement. A social revolution that as it continues to unfold still demands equality no matter what a person's identity maybe - male or female, rich or poor, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or transgender, and no matter the colour of their skin or what their disability. A culture where the concept that "the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened" is the guiding principal.
Thu Feb 18 11:59:16 1999
In 1963 a watershed occurred when the South Christian Leadership Conference decided to march on Birmingham, Alabama - the most notoriously brutal hotbed of racism in the USA. King led this nonviolent march and did not discriminate among the participants. He was advised that he should place their white brothers in the frontline. This he did and the media exposure was intense. Both whites and blacks were arrested that day, and from the Birmingham Jail King wrote his most famous letter.
Thu Feb 18 11:59:34 1999
"Injustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. What ever affects one directly affects all indirectly."
Martin Luther King JR, Letter from the Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:00:07 1999
"I am thankful, however, that some of our white brothers have grasped the meaning of this social revolution and committed themselves to it. They are still too small in quantity, but they are big in quality. Some like Ralph McGill, Lillian Smith, Harry Golden and James Dabbs have written about our lives in eloquent, prophetic and understanding terms. Others have marched with us down nameless streets of the South. They have languished in filthy roach-infested jails, suffering the abuse and brutality of angry policemen who see them as "dirty nigger lovers." They, unlike so many of their moderate brothers and sisters, have recognised the urgency of the moment and sensed the need for powerful "action" antidotes to combat the disease of segregation [and discrimination]."
Martin Luther King JR, Letter from the Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:00:30 1999
On June 11, 1963, in response to King and his supporters' campaign, President John F Kennedy called out the National Guard to escort two clearly qualified students onto the campus of the University of Alabama. That evening Kennedy gave a televised address to his nation, and in this new era of mass communication his message was soon broadcast around the world.
Thu Feb 18 12:01:08 1999
"[Democratic society is] founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened."
John F Kennedy, University of Alabama, June 11, 1963 - Thu Feb 18 12:01:49 1999
"A great change is at hand, and our task, our obligation is to make that revolution, that change, peaceful and constructive for all."
John F Kennedy, University of Alabama, June 11, 1963 - Thu Feb 18 12:02:12 1999
On August 28, 1963 King led the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. His address on this occasion is popularly known as the "I have a dream" speech.
Thu Feb 18 12:02:45 1999
"Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred."
Martin Luther King Jnr, Address at March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, August 28, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:03:13 1999
"The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here to day, have come to realise that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We can not walk alone."
Martin Luther King Jnr, Address at March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, August 28, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:03:43 1999
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed - we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. ... I have a dream today! I have a dream that one day ... right down in Alabama little black boys and little black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and little white girls as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today!"
Martin Luther King Jnr, Address at March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, August 28, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:04:05 1999
"Let freedom ring! And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every tenement and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up the day that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, [by extension women, heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals and transgender] will be able to hold hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.""
Martin Luther King Jnr, Address at March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, August 28, 1963. - Thu Feb 18 12:04:47 1999
Well, thank you for the rememberance of Martin Luther King Jr. How does this american activist relate to this forum? To be honest, the opressive management of McMardi Graft appears to not give a damn. They have the numbers to bury any activism and the money to campaign for their issues to ensure that votes go their way.
Thu Feb 18 12:32:09 1999
Re: How does this American activist relate to this forum? King et al in 1963 basically launched a worldwide Human Rights campaign. These ideals spurred others into action to defeat discrimination where ever it occurs and in what ever form. (ie inspired Stonewall and the first Mardi Gras) If we as gays, lesbians, bis and transgenders want equality we can not then turn around and discriminate against others. We will gain equality quicker if like King we can enlist people outside of our "group" to help us forward our campaign. The logic behind the concept that "[Democratic society is] founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened" is very powerful and ultimately seductive. To me Mardi Gras is about promoting Human Rights with a same-sex focus.
mcmc@netspace.net.au - Thu Feb 18 14:41:33 1999
Back to something more important. Is it really Marcia ???? Now I understand - Martin was black and Marcia is black. It's a hidden message from the party committee. The cat's now out of the bag. I'm not as one dimesional as some people say I am.
I've just wet my pants in anticipation. - Thu Feb 18 14:53:46 1999
Mardi Gras was always about Human Rights, mcmc. In 1978 we (the GLBT community) had none. Now, 1n 1999, 50% of us do have some human rights yet a great many of those 50% (with the open support of their current community leading organisation) now discriminate against those which *they* see as 'inferior' to their cause. Strange, seeing as the downtrodden 50% are stanch supporters of the cause.
A 78er - Thu Feb 18 15:00:29 1999
Hey! I wonder where most of these performers stand regarding this discrimination thing? Would they like to be known as performers who are pro-discrimination? What would happen isomeone contacted their agents and the newspapers with this little spin and see what the press thinks of that.
Thu Feb 18 15:13:01 1999
Is is true that Mardigras has bowed to community pressure and cancelled Dannii's show? Is it also true that she will now represent the G&L community by being on the lead float? A Straight girl representing the GLBT community in a GLBT parade?! That's worse!!! Remove one foot just to insert another MG.
I can't understand the logic - Thu Feb 18 15:33:17 1999
Hey! Maybe Dannii withdrew when she heard about the bisexuals being banned from Mardi Gras. Is there something we should know about Dannii? After all she does kiss both sexes in her video.
Thu Feb 18 15:37:51 1999
Daaaannnniiiii did a Royal tour of the workshop the other day with body guards, hairdresser, stylist, caravan, four photgraphers and lalaleachson in toe. She was photographed in front of various floats and tonguing a paint brush so may be she is going to be leading the parade.
Thu Feb 18 17:14:36 1999
But there have been other straight people on the lead float: Ms. Kirkpatrick (aka The Freak) and oh god whats her name, she was married to Derryy Hinch...apologies, its late i'm just about to leave work and I can't remember her name...not saying i want dunnii on the lead float, but there are precedents....thats all
keanu (in a flustered state) - Thu Feb 18 17:23:17 1999
Jackie Weaver!
Thu Feb 18 17:29:58 1999
Technowarrior wrote - way up the list somewhere " Everyone I know with HIV (myself included) is coping fine these days,thanks to the new treatments (despite occassionally nasty side effects)." I'm glad you and your friends are coping well, as a health worker I see lots of people who aren't. Most of them had low paying jobs to start with, and now life is worse because they still do lose quite some time from work, despite the new treatments. The other point is, that of course the new treatments are not working so well for everyone. So there are still great numbers of people in need.
LK - Thu Feb 18 17:33:35 1999
Rest assured I am not, and never have been, known as pollyantha! Nor am I associated in any way with her/him, unless I know her/him under a different name. There is no conspiracy here- surely there is room for at least two people out there who can see the good in what MG does (I take it that polly has a similar view point as myself- if this is the case, I need some support here pollyantha!) To A 78er, good on you for delivering some of your "policies" & ideas from the top of your head. I think a lot of what you suggested (esp about those people who are denied membership having a right to a valid appeal process) makes good sense. I'm glad that you attended the public forums- if more people with valid suggestions spoke up at such occassions perhaps positive changes might be made. I will be interesting to see whether much of what you said is accepted by other members.
blue ridge mountain boy (naka pollyantha) - Thu Feb 18 20:04:22 1999
You ever noticed that Maggie Kirkpatrick (aka The freak) was a dyke icon? A butch, in control, dyke icon. That's why she's been asked back again and again. Jackie Weaver? Hmmm, I have no idea.
Thu Feb 18 21:17:21 1999
A Mardi Gras prez named Davo
Thu Feb 18 21:18:04 1999
Had a mate who was a bit of a ravo
Thu Feb 18 21:18:25 1999
But who would have thought
Thu Feb 18 21:18:52 1999
that he'd end up in court
Thu Feb 18 21:19:11 1999
and cop a bit of an avo!!
Thu Feb 18 21:19:27 1999
Re the 50 Mardi Gras tickets donated to the luncheon club; no tickets were donated to the luncheon club, 50 tickets were donated to the plwha community, to be distributed by a ballot administered jointly by acon and the luncheon club. And frankly, 50 tickets aint much, certainly not when considered against the 3000 comp. tickets handed out every year to the great and the good.
Thu Feb 18 21:22:59 1999
Given the great organising the BGF can muster, and the shambles that McMardi-Graft create, maybe BGF should run the Party, and Mardi-Graft try to help the HIV Community. We would have a great party! but our unwell brothers and sisters would be doomed!
Stanly Livingstoned - Thu Feb 18 22:12:30 1999
To "educate" and the other bisexuals, I'd like to hear how you would tackle the problem of the flicky haired girls and their homophobic boyfriends at the parties? Ask any of them and they identify as "bi". They are the problem, how do we address it? I fully support bisexual membership of Mardi Gras, I also know str8s that I consider part of our community, but so many are using the bi label as a loophole so they can "party" and treat us like freaks with contempt. They display no empathy for our community. This has alienated so many from the party experience and is possibly the cause of so much biphobia from the gay and lesbian community.
veteran volunteer - Fri Feb 19 4:25:02 1999
veteran volunteer - Clearly, it would be better if "the flicky haired girls and their homophobic boyfriends" weren't at the parties. But who buys them their tickets? And what was the sexual identity of the people who bought them their tickets? Oh, they bought their own. They're members! Who signed their application forms to become members? Who on the Board approved their membership? Oh, they ticked the gay/lesbian/homosexual box did they? So they got automatic membership. The point is, the members of Mardi Gras have (or more correctly had) the chance to control who goes to the parties. The parties are private events for members and their guests. Back in 1991 when the ticketing policy was introduced, MG had less than 300 members. Those members, and the members they signed up, had the opportunity to keep the membership predominantly gay and lesbian. Bisexuals who were part of the community also had no trouble joining. Why didn't the membership do that? The reason is simple. The Board at the time failed in the way it sold the ticketing policy. Rather than taking the community and the MG membership into its confidence by calling a community meeting, let existing and potential members debate and discuss it, and through that process own the policy, the Board met in secret and imposed it. The debate happened afterwards. It succeeded, but only succeeded, because the then president Richard Cobden made it quite clear Mardi Gras would not back down. "We have to keep faith with those members who have joined because of the policy" were more or less his words to me when I interviewed him about it. Sadly, as it turned out, not the best way to implement what otherwise was a sensible solution to the "straights at parties" problem. Sadly, the existing Board (which really is a continuum of Richard's board) hasn't yet learned.
Fri Feb 19 6:22:47 1999
Hi Veteran Volunteer. My suggestion regarding the 'flick-haired (I assume you mean straight) girls and homophobic boys is simple. As part and parcel of the membership of Mardi Gras, they must accept that their names *will* be published in the community media. (This isn't policy yet, but should be). In regards to tickets being bought *for* them by members, well that's something that we can only start curbing by educatioof the membership base, I'm afraid. Of course there are hetrosexual members of Mardi Gras, they may gert caught in the net of list of members names idea, but some will not care one way or the other. Remember that the allocation of tickets (per member) is up to the individual member. The education of the membership base is such that you want people at the parties who are supportive of our cause and sensitive to the space they are in. (ie: A GLBT event). Of course complaints to a dedicated security force would be handled (ie: this guy is hitting on the girls over near the dyke bar) with swiftness and immediate ejection, confiscation of ticket stub and the member who gave the person the ticket should (in my opinion) be subject to disciplinary action by the Board (ie: explain and/or resign membership yes, this is harsh but to begin with you must be). These are but some suggestions, not fully rounded out and off the top of my head. You could probably reduce the problem this way, but I don't know about the total eradication of it. I'm open to suggestions, though.
A 78er - Fri Feb 19 9:14:49 1999
Hey! Who mentioned Maggie Kirkpatrick? Did you notice that she was at Fair Day supporting the Bobby Goldsmith Foundation? Clearly, she is in the right mind and spirit, unlike a certain high-profile prez who lost his cool.
Fri Feb 19 9:26:54 1999
Dawn is not keeping any of the profits from the Rainbow Party. She is most upset with mardi gras...and I mean most....If you don't have a party ticket get one to Rainbow...I hear sales are a little sluggish. If no-one supports it this year, any alternative will be canned for next year, and that will be a headache.
Fri Feb 19 9:33:35 1999
Hey! I just had a thought. Maybe Jackie Weaver led the parade because of all the musical theatre she had done at the time. Was she a Queen-Icon?
Fri Feb 19 9:37:41 1999
A group of actors and performers got together last night to discuss the 'discrimination issue'. A few were current working high-profile actors. They were all Equity members. The words 'industry concerns' were mentioned. Is something in the air?
Equity Insider - Fri Feb 19 9:54:02 1999
Syd Star 11/2/99 - "We only gave the market researchers members’ names, membership status and home number," he said. David gives away confidential information about mardi gras members for market research ..what only their names and home numbers..what about their favourite colour and shoe size ?
charming - Fri Feb 19 10:28:13 1999
What is the "discrimination issue" with actors and performers ?
curious queer? - Fri Feb 19 10:30:37 1999
Were any of the members consulted about the release of their names and *home* phone numbers? I think not. I am a member and I wasn't consulted!
disgusted - Fri Feb 19 10:43:53 1999
With "Best Friends" like that who needs enemies? (letter is this weeks Star)
AVO here we go - Fri Feb 19 10:51:05 1999
I'm so glad P. Finlay of Potts Point got that off his chest.
The courier is on the way with a whole bundle of VIP passes - Fri Feb 19 10:58:13 1999
Hey! Some of the actors and performers involved in the 'discrimination meeting' aren't involved in Mardi Gras but they are high-profile Australian actors. Apparently the initial discussions were held at a certain acting school's recent anniversary. The issue discussed and concerns raised was the bisexual discrimination issue.
Equity Insider - Fri Feb 19 11:16:13 1999
I am concerned that I wasn't asked if I wanted my details released for any market research, either. How do the rest of the membership, here, feel?
A SGLMG member - Fri Feb 19 11:40:53 1999
Jackie didn't lead the parade exactly, she was on the 'please give you dollars to BGF' float with Ignatius Jones who asked her to be involved. Read about it in Richard Wherret's new Mardi Gras book.
Fri Feb 19 13:12:01 1999
Jackie didn't lead the parade exactly, she was on the 'please give you dollars to BGF' float with Ignatius Jones who asked her to be involved. Read about it in Richard Wherret's new Mardi Gras book.
Fri Feb 19 13:30:06 1999
Maggie & Ignatius are long time supporters of BGF and I'll be surprised if there not helping BGF again this year. It's just great to see so many 'mainstream' entertainers, along with our own finest 'ladies' of the stage giving up their time and energy for BGF. For the record, BGF is not only a Gay & Lesbian organisation - it assists anyone, regardless of race, religion, sexuality, creed or colour, who meets the criteria. Maybe MG should actually have 'mainstream' entertainers around who 'donate' their services. What do you think the price tag for Ms Minogue or Mr Barnes would total ? - if indeed they are actually performing. My concern with Ms Minogue is not that she should, or shouldn't perform - it's whether or not 'that' song will be the show. It is purely an awful song, unlike 'All I Wanna Do'. If the challenge is about excellence, why use a very average piece of music for a show. The standard shouldn't suffer because of back yard deals. Oh yes, finally, is it true a certain ex-pres threw a seriously vile and public attack on the Festival Director over the way two performers chastised Ms Minogue over her'lesbian' comments at Stars Come Out?. Tut, tut Richard, haven't you done enough damage for one month. David, please restrain your terrier - the staff don't deserve that sort of abuse. Well, not Jonathan anyway!
King Richard for PM - Fri Feb 19 14:15:21 1999
You mean he was "slapping" the Festival Director around? Do we see the ides of another AVO? Verbal abuse? Hmmmmm Very PC I must say!
Fri Feb 19 14:20:39 1999
Releasing our details to market researchers ? I don't recall anything on my membership or renewal forms that said this could be done. If that's what happened I'm not impressed.
LK - Fri Feb 19 14:27:29 1999
Yes, LK, that is apparently what has happened. All members should be outraged at this blatant betrayal and invasion of privacy by the Mard Gras Board.
Fri Feb 19 14:36:26 1999
Oh give it a rest. Think of all the straights who lied on the membership application and whose names were given out to market researchers. Smile. And please, there must be some way of ending the interminable phantom presidency of that hideous man.
Fri Feb 19 14:50:20 1999
Announcing the next major Mardi Gras commercial venture. In the wake of Mardi Gras Music comes the Mardi Gras biscuit - the Iced AVO.
Fri Feb 19 15:12:12 1999
'Oh give it a rest'. So I take it that you're happy with your name and home phone number being given out to a market research company? (If you're a member). Even if some straights got into the mix, does that screw the figures? I think so. How many straights names were given out as opposed to Bisexuals? Gays? Lesbians? Homosexuals? Transgenders? Do you know the ratio of those members names given out? There is a way to end his presidency and the reign of the current board. An Extraordinary General Meeting. 200 members need to send a request to Mardi Gras (petition is a good way) and demand an EGM. Then this would be called within 2 months. The EGM is called, grievances are heard, debated, motioned upon, and the irresponsible Board members (ie: not all are responsible for these fiascos) can be voted out. Simple. Have the petition at any of the next events, have a space for name, address, membership munber and the description of what needs to be addressed on the top. Ensure that original copies of the document are kept out of the reach of current Board members, or have only 5 members fill out each sheet, to stop Board-members accidentally slapping the documents out of your hands and having them "vanish". When 200 names (with legitimate membership numbers) are collected on the sheets, then copy them, lodge the copies with Mardi Gras with a covering letter demanding an EGM and the reasons for such, and copy the documents to the S.S.O and Capital Q. This ensures that other people know what is happening, and the documents cannot be "misplaced" - as some things accidentally become. Then wait. If the EGM is called, then attend and vote. If it is not, the organisation is in breach of the guidelines and action may be taken against it to forcibly have the entire Board sacked through Adminstrative Law (although I'm not certain of the clauses regarding that).
A member, and a member of the media - Fri Feb 19 15:18:41 1999
Dear 'member of the media' and 'give it a rest', be very sure of your issues before you even think about calling an EGM. The signatures are only an indication of the concern for the issues. The actual issues must be real and be in the membership's (as opposed to the communities) interest. Only call an EGM if you are sure. Think about it and then (if you feel it is warranted) do it. 'Equity Insider' can you tell us any more about this alleged meeting last night? Finally, those who have posted about the market research; check to see if there was any notice given to those who had their numbers (etc...) given out. However, I agree that the information that members details have been given out to a market research company *does* make me a little uneasy, too.
A 78er - Fri Feb 19 15:47:53 1999
Veteran Volunteer - These straight boys are just identifying as gay on the membership form already, so they can purchase tickets for them and their flicky hair girlfriend. Are you suggesting that we Bisexuals are being punished because of straight people lieing about their sexuality when in the party. I could blame gays for them getting into the party, as they orginally got party tickets because they identified as gay. Do you see how silly this whole argument is? And how it just ends up as blatent biphobia and discrimination.
Educate - Fri Feb 19 16:58:50 1999
I think Veteran Volunteer is indeed suggesting that bisexual people are being blamed by SGLMG members for unsympathetic straight people going to the SGLMG parties. It doesn't look like VV is doing anything other than pointing out that this is scapegoating - we're all responsible. I would agree that it is an issue we need to revisit. All members are responsible for creating the fantastic parties, we linked them to membership of SGLMG and now we discover that many people happily lie to get membership just to be able to attend. How do we maintain the GL (& yes, bisexual) integrity of our "spaces" *and* membership? And how do we overcome biphobia? Educate, it comes across like you're accusing everyone who has a question of "discriminating". The reality - and politics of the situation - seem to be different to that. Keep educating... :-) we're all also responsible for creating a Mardi Gras which is often just so much fun for Mr&Ms Australia, it's not particularly successful at getting much of a positive GLBT political message across of any sort!
fastlove - Fri Feb 19 17:29:29 1999
fastlove, the current policy is descriminating against bisexuals, this is biphobia. The current policy also adds and promotes biphobia (discrimination) in the gay and lesbian community. I was not accusing VV of discrimination at all, I was stating that the current policy is discriminating against bisexuals. Yes we are responsible for creating a Mardi Gras that is appealing to the straight community, I think we have done this on purpose, as a kind of a pay back for school yard beatings and homophobia. It is like we are saying we are so much cooler then you straights and you know you want to come to our parties, but we will not let you because you are straight ha ha ha.... Why else was David McLachlan on E News talking about the Mardi Gras parade and party immediately after the presenter talks about the party and its much sort after party tickets (oh that's right bisexuals are to blame)
Educate - Fri Feb 19 18:11:29 1999
So the SSO has not covered, in detail, the appaling treatment of Australia's oldest and most loved HIV/AIDS charity. Why not I ask? Is it now a problem for an issue of importance to be debated fully, not just on Pinkboard for those with access?. The fault lies firmly with the GM for not responding to a request from BGF after receiving the standard letter sent to all community stalls in January. Has the GM been made accountable for his lack of foresight to realise that this issue would become a problem?. It has been commented during the week that BGF is not a 'sacred cow'. Well, I am not sorry to say that BGF is definately a 'sacred cow'. Happy Mardi Gras to all, especially those who have access to Pinkboard through the generosity of others (ie. the less well off of our community). You may not be able to party the same way as you used to, you may not be able to give back to the community and life as you once did but you are a significant part of why we do what we do. 1978 was about rights, 1988 was about survival and ongoing strength. Somewhere, we have lost the meaning of MG - people caring for each other as a united entity for equal rights for all. To all, just spend one minute this MG remembering why we are there, and who we miss. After MG, we can concentrate on lobbying the membership to get rid of the bad apples once and for all.
Homer - Fri Feb 19 18:47:28 1999
2500 people at Home on Feb 27 will take $100,000 away from the Luncheon Club Rainbow Party benefit. Put your conscience before the crap. Don't be fooled by MG's conspiracy against Dawn. Remember who is totally committed to helping people living with HIV/Aids by providing her venues et al for BGF etc. Thanks to the MG Board member who donated $50 to the Luncheon Club last Sunday. Obviously, not all of the bunch have rotten cores.
Fri Feb 19 19:46:56 1999
All those who are concerned over the bi-sexual issues, please, please go and study the aritcles of association - the very same articles that were approved by the membership. they state very clearly that no member may be admitted if the gay and lesbian nature/identity of the organisation may be diminshed. I too agree that the articles and membership question nees to be revisited and I trust that the board are looking at this question - however, their hands are definitely tied. The test is not whether bi-sexuals *will* diminsh the character but *may* diminish the character. Until that is changed *and* approved by the entire membership - not just those wanting change - can the board act in a more responsible manner.
Phoenix Rising - Fri Feb 19 20:04:05 1999
All those who are concerned over the bi-sexual issues, please, please go and study the aritcles of association - the very same articles that were approved by the membership. they state very clearly that no member may be admitted if the gay and lesbian nature/identity of the organisation may be diminshed. I too agree that the articles and membership question nees to be revisited and I trust that the board are looking at this question - however, their hands are definitely tied. The test is not whether bi-sexuals *will* diminsh the character but *may* diminish the character. Until that is changed *and* approved by the entire membership - not just those wanting change - can the board act in a more responsible manner.
Phoenix Rising - Fri Feb 19 20:04:24 1999
Phoenix Rising - can you answer why bisexuals in the past were allowed membership after having gone through the effort of presenting declarations or proof of their involvement in the gay and lesbian community, and now under the same articles cannot gain membership even with declarations from the likes of a past co-convenor of the gay and lesbian rights lobby. The only answer is the current board or a few on the board who own the power. Also does someones identity allown take away from the gay and lesbian character of Mardi Gras? What about a 'straight acting' gay man without any commitment to the community, would he not take more away from what the board sees as gay and lesbian character, more then a bisexual man who has spent a great deal of his time working in the community? One thing we do agree on is the articles need to change, I want bisexuals and transgender people as equal to gay and lesbian (no name change, still remains SGLMG), otherwise a misdirected board will use the articles to act out their biphobia. The only reason I can see for not doing this is that the membership considers bisexual people second class queer citizens, and I really pity a community who seek equal rights while on the other hand they happily discriminate against a minority group within their own community.
Educate - Fri Feb 19 21:39:55 1999
Why should we be worried about straights going to our parties. After all, if it's good enough for David McLachlan's great mates China Bear Leeson and Slapper Cobden to take their new best straight friends to the mardi gras party, why shouldn't the rest of us?
Fri Feb 19 22:47:03 1999
Bi-sexuals should just turn gay and give us a break, make a choice and stick with it, or go back to your husband/wife and organise some swingers parties.
over the bi thing - Sat Feb 20 8:09:42 1999
That sounds to me to be only one step from saying that gays & lesbians should just turn straight, give the straight community a break etc etc.
Party Girl - Sat Feb 20 8:52:46 1999
Dear over the bi thing: How can G&Ls demand any bisexual deny half their sexuality? Your comments remind me of the Pope telling gays they can be gay but shouldn't act on their sexuality. When we oursleves force others into closets just so they can "fit in with our standards", we are as bad as those who have persecuted us. Having suffered discrimination doesn't give you the right to go and persecute others. Unfortunately, somtimes it provides the motivation to do just that. Discrimination sucks, no matter who the perpetrator.
GhettoBlaster - Sat Feb 20 11:40:51 1999
Slapper I understand, I think. But why "China Bear" Leeson?
Sat Feb 20 12:32:14 1999
Isn't China Bear a removalist company?
Sat Feb 20 14:05:00 1999
What! Has he moved out, again.
Sat Feb 20 16:32:18 1999
Would people stop spamming the graffiti walls. Put your message on one wall only. And choose the appropriate wall.
Panther - Sat Feb 20 19:02:56 1999
It's costing the members of Mardi Gras $75.000 to put this alternative Mardi Gras party on at home, why as members were we not informed of this. Sad how it's only sold about 200 tickets. Considering they need 2000 paying people in ther to break even.
Sat Feb 20 20:00:58 1999
Well panther if you want people to stop spamming, well why not take a leaf out of your own books, and stop deleting messages. As we are human beings and have the right to freedom of speech!!
Sat Feb 20 20:06:14 1999
Maybe that is why people have been removing Rainbow party posters from walls and telegraph poles. When these people were approached and asked why they are removing the posters, they said Mardi Gras ask them to!!!
Sat Feb 20 20:10:42 1999
Panther you have been warned.
Sat Feb 20 20:16:47 1999
So Panther, why is that you remove posting's from the board?? Are you scared to many people will find out what's really happening and how corrupt you all are at the Office of Mardi Gras. It's really sad when a committe like your's can't take criticism. So if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen get out!!
The Bitch is back - Sat Feb 20 21:06:42 1999
Yep, I saw people taking Rainbow Party posters down today as well, just tearing them down. Up along Oxford Street.
Sun Feb 21 0:03:31 1999
Dear Pheonix Rising. The fundamental issue isn't the actual article (4.10) but the way it was applied (or misapplied in this case) to Messers Durber and Vassallo (along with others). You, yourself, stated that the article referred to the word "may" as in "may diminish...". This is true. The articles also refer to an appeal process where the person(s) may show just cause why their application should be accepted. The process was not followed. A meeting with no discussion and a pre-ordained outcome is not an appeal. Very simple, really. I found *that* more insulting than the meeting in 1995. remember that the issue of the Bisexual exclusion was made only after a lot of resubmitting the same motions which were rejected by the membership, until a campaign of scare-mongering was successful *and* assurances made that bisexuals would be given a fair hearing regarding their support and contribtions to the community. Please keep *that* point in mind. That motion was *marginally* passed by the members at that specific meeting (*not* the entire membership) after several attempts and reassurances that bisexuals and those "below the line" would be able to prove their committment to the community in a face-to-face meeting and if their support was genuine, then (if they proved such) they would be given membership. This was the 'promise' made to the members (present at the time). It has not happened. Phoenix, you must read the articles in the context of the meeting at which they were drafted and/or formed. I was there.
A 78er - Sun Feb 21 0:24:30 1999
I think Dawn would be very interested to hear Mardi Gras are pulling down her posters :-)
Sun Feb 21 6:59:11 1999
I know the press was, I read it here and left messages with Q and the Star.
Sun Feb 21 10:14:30 1999
I have heard that financially Mardi Gras is not in a good way. Basically caused by the Sleaze Ball disaster. Expect a reported loss of some $130000 when the annual financial statements are issued. I think this explains a lot of the seemingly money grabbing plans going on at the moment - Arrivals Party Home, Mardi Gras Night Home, Millenium NYE plans, the MG record label. I hope the annual financial statements disclose full details of the income and expenses attached to these ventures so the membership has some understanding of the financial consequences of each. To me each represents a move away from MG concentrating on its core activities. And there has been zilch community consultation so far with each. The months following the end of the Festival next weekend are going to interesting times indeed.
An accountant's view - Sun Feb 21 10:44:33 1999
Time to gather the facts and plan the assault.
Sun Feb 21 10:49:36 1999
Nameless - I removed the post because you spammed Pinkboard, but because of the content. As for free speech, and I have said this before (Mon Feb 15 8:54:58 1999), you are welcome to set up your own web site. I have never ever said I will allow free speech on Pinkboard.
Panther - Sun Feb 21 11:10:23 1999
Blue ridge mountain boy & Phoenix rising: Regulation 4.10 of the Mardi Gras constitution cannot be used as the basis to deny bi-sexuals membership in Mardi Gras. Regulations 4.3,4.4, 4.5 expressly provides that individual applicants who are bi-sexual can quallify for membership if they follow the vetting procedures provided for in those regulations. As I uderstand the complaints of those bi-sexuals whose applicantions were rejected- they are saying that they followed the procedures in good faith but their applicantions were rejected solely on the basis that they were bi-sexual, and for no other reason. In other words they are complaining that their application for membership was not dealt with on its merits. If Phoenix Rising wants to argue the point h/she may care to explain why the constitution just does not say bi-sexuals cannot be members. The approach adopted by this current Board about bi-sexuals is no doubt illegal and would be set aside by a Court. More pertinent, however, is that the Board appears to have taken this current approach without regard to the terms of the constitution of the company (ie, the wishes of the members) and the company is worse off in that we have lost two potential members who would have made a great contribution to the community. This raises considerations about the governance of Mardi Gras. Perhaps the enumeration of the controversial issues the Board has to deal with (set out in the post from Blue Ridge Mountain boy) illustrates that being on the board is no easy job. A creful analysis of these issues shows that the Board gets into trouble, more often than not, not because of what it decides to do but the way it goes about implementing its decisions. Most of the hostility could be avoided with better consultation and PR. Why does the Board stuff up in this way? I think one reason is the make-up of the Board itself. The current board (bar one person) are members of a gruop ticket hobbled together by the current President prior to the last AGM. Tickets always have the reult of stifling debate. If there were more independent views expressed at Board level and issues better debated and trashed out then I think that the Board would implement its decisions more wisely and carefully taking into account the differing points of view within the community.
reflective - Sun Feb 21 13:04:47 1999
Hey people, accept that it's Panther's board and he should be able to do as he pleases with it.
Technowarrior - Sun Feb 21 13:48:57 1999
Hey people, accept that it's Richard's and Garry's Mardi Gras and they should be able to do as they please with it.
come on now Technowarrior, get a grip on it. - Sun Feb 21 16:48:14 1999
To delete message's from the board ony means one thing to me and probably other's on here too, "There's something to hide"!!!!!!
The Bitch is Back!! - Sun Feb 21 17:51:58 1999
Dear Phoenix Rising I sit on the Boards of several public companies and the Board of one overseas multi-national. I agree with the sentiments expessed by reflective. On several occassions I have been requested to stand for election. A prior ticket wanted me to join them. I have rejected these requests. Why?? Leo Schofield put it well at the first gay and lesbian business conference. When asked would he consider running the Mardi Gras festival he said that there are so many divergent elements at work, each with its own agenda, that it would be too difficult to run Mardi Gras.
anon. - Sun Feb 21 18:06:35 1999
Never mind past mardi-graft prez's losing their cool, according to witnesses, the current one, King David McGraft, lost his at Fairday, and was seen screaming at the BGF Stand person. This was probably bought on because the one person he was screaming at, has 20 years service to the Leather Community, including winning Leather Prides Community Service award, and simply told King David McGraft to "calm down, grow up, and start behaving like an adult." What is defintely needed here is a personal apology from King David to the person at the receiving end of his childish snotty behaviour.
David Livingstoned - Sun Feb 21 18:28:39 1999
Anon raises an interesting point. Those who support the current board trot out the need for continuity whenever an election comes around. They always rely on their experiance in running Mardi Gras. But just what experiance do these people have. If they provide any bio about themselves they only tell about their experiance in running community groups. What experiance do they have in running a company with a 3m. turnover. Most of the current Board have public service positions and wouldnt know how to run a chook raffle. The past prez was a photoycopy girl prior to taking over Mardi Gras. No wonder she couldn't conduct a meeting. But shes done all right for herself now that she's employed as a protocol officer at Sydney City Council. I wonder what deals she did to get that little plum job????
pissed off - Sun Feb 21 18:41:43 1999
If Richard Cobden and Garry Leeson really have the best interest of Mardi Gras at heart I don't understand why they just don't back off Mardi Gras for awhile. Clearly Leeson's continuing involvement in the Dance Parties is causing needless angst amongst some members and naturally the Board becomes distracted defending Messrs Leeson and Cobden when it has better things to do. I was at the last AGM. It was obvious that a significant number of members were pissed off (probably about one third). No community group can afford to alienate one third of its membership. A lot of things the reformers were saying made sense. If the reformers cannot bring about some of the changes they want then obviously they will not renew their memberships and they will seek involvement in other organisations-perhaps another mardi gras type association. So far Mardi Gras has not had any real competitors. But it will come. The rainbow party is only the beginning. If David wants to be seen doing something to stop the rot I suggest that he politely tells Garry " thanks for what you have done but we have a new dance director for next year." While David's at it he might tell Garry that it would be best for eveyone if Richard keeps out of Mardi Gras for a couple of years.
wonderboy - Sun Feb 21 19:12:02 1999
And everyone lived happily ever after...
Sun Feb 21 20:47:02 1999
The point is that past Presidents have moved on. Why can't Richard? The bi-sexual debate is a good example. The younger generation into Queer politics see what the Board has done to bis not just wrong but offensive. We may disagree. It's this generation, however, who want and should be allowed to take over. It is time for those of us in the 40s to stand aside. Richard's attempt to keep control is not just wrong its pathetic. Pathetic is an apt description of where Richard is at these days and its sad to see.
wonderboy - Sun Feb 21 22:03:57 1999
David Livingstoned - I find your allegations against our Mardi Gras president difficult to believe. This is just more viciousness to undermine the greatest leader we've seen since Billy Mcmahon. David does not scream. It is beyond his capacity to scream. If you had've said he was engaged in the verbal equivalent of mincing, well that would be believable.
let's all kiss the hem of David M - Sun Feb 21 22:34:41 1999
O! dear, I read the pinkboard and I have to ask myself - what are we doing ripping into one anothe, and I realise I too did it on radio to mardi gras this last week. I reflect, and I regret it as mardi gras have been extremely good to the luncheon club. We have used the workshop, we have raised over $11,500 from doing the passout system at two sleaze ball parties & mardi gras party 1998 and no doubt we'll raise another $4500 at mardi gras 1999. Way back in 1994 we won a mardi gras award for our outstanding contribution to hiv/aids and that recognition opened doors for us that would have taken us years longer to achieve. And then there are the $3500 worth of tickets over the last 2 years given free of charge to people living with hiv/aids to attend the parties. Even last weekend they allowed us to have a stall at fairday to promote the rainbow party. Mardi gras is about diversity and that includes the individuals who have made it, what it is today and in doing so, have set the stage for umbrella parties - we need to appreciate that aspect. Lets face it, the rainbow party would not be happening if it wasn't for mardi gras being forced into reduced numbers and hence with the net proceeds from the rainbow party going to the luncheon club larder to buy food and essential items for plwha struggling to survive on the disability support pension. The thing I love most about mardi gras is on the night of nights, we all come together with pride, with love, with joy - our differences forgotten, and it comes across to millions of people all over the world - wouldn't it be great if we could get into that spirit n o w - instead of leaving it till Saturday night....I wish you all love!.
Carole Ann - Mon Feb 22 0:12:30 1999
Dear Carol Anne, Romanticism is a wonderful thing. i agree that many people will take their drugs and see Mardi Gras as being rosy. that doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it all go away when the drugs wear off. That doesn't make their decisions of what to do with the company (without membership consultation) right. that doesn't make their attitude toward Luncheon Club and BGF right. That doesn't make their attitude toward bisexuals right. As a matter of fact, very little seems right when you look at the 'big picture' decsisions. free tickets to Mardi Gras Parties (incl. Sleaze) cost Mardi Gras nothing. Nothing. They may say $x in lost revenue, but in essence, they can print those extra tickets and it costs nothing at all. Yes, Carol Ann, they did allow you to have a stall at Fair Day, and it was on that stall that the true stories came out. The operators of that stand were telling all and sundry what the issues with Mardi Gras were. If they (Mardi Gras) had refused Luncheon Club the stand, all hell would have broken out - more than it has. besides, you paid for the stand, so why shouldn't you have it. It was nice of them (Mardi Gras) to allow you to give them their license fee for the day. Carol Ann, I wish you love, too, but we will not all come together in the spirit of Mardi Gras until the current organisation decides to look back before 1995 and find where they buried it.
Jaded - Mon Feb 22 0:56:29 1999
Hey! Carol Ann, if Mardi Gras is so nice to you, why did it have people tearing down Rainbow Party posters last Saturday (and before)?
Reality Check - Mon Feb 22 0:59:09 1999
I am reticent to add, yet I will, that I also saw people ripping down Rainbow Party Posters on Oxford Street on Saturday afternoon. I must add, though, that I don't know who they were associated with. I must also add, that posters which were marginally on top were left hanging on the poles, therefore one can conclude that the Rainbow Party poseters were the actual target. I saw this happen twice, 2 poles one after the other. If this is an effort by Mardi Gras to control attendance at Rainbow Party, then we as a community *must* ask which membership poll gave them such a mandate.
A 78er - Mon Feb 22 8:49:07 1999
I read Carol Ann's post. She regrets the things she said about Mardi Gras on-air. How much did Mardi Graft pay you to back off?
In the know - Mon Feb 22 9:15:06 1999
Sun Feb 21 16:48:14 1999 - There are many differences between Pinkboard and MG. For a start MG has 8000 owners and Pinkboard has 1.
The Bitch is Back - If I had something to hide this wall would be empty. Last year at bump-in RC told me he was amused by the antics on Pinkboard. I wonder if he will actually talk to me this time if we see each other. I admit I do know him to say hello to. I also know a number of the people who weren't elected in the last election. I have friends who volunteer their services and are on boards of many of our community organisations.
I am doing bump-in this week for the Mardi Gras party. I am taking a week off work and volunteering my services to Mardi Gras. What do I get out of it? Lunch is provided. A party ticket. Coffee and water. Maybe $200 worth for 40 hours work, hard work, $5 per hour. Some years I have donated the party ticket also.
What I get out of it really is being able to annoy all my friends all night saying "See that piece of black plastic. I stuck that up." I helped make this party happen. This, the most amazing party in the world. I am part of the party, and the party is part of me.
Panther - Mon Feb 22 9:28:08 1999
Panther, I agree with you in your last paragraph.
A 78er - Mon Feb 22 9:47:31 1999
I have to agree. All this discussion will vanish in a party-drug haze and then people will fondly remember the party and what was right, not what was wrong. All problems will be forgotten and when the AGM comes up everyone will clap and cheer and no issues will be brought up. As it has been, so shall it be.
Jaded - Mon Feb 22 10:07:12 1999
We can be a great community - I think thousands of people like me want to thank people like Panther and 78er who make such a huge and often thankless contribution. I remember going to a last parade entry rehearsal early on the day last year and being gobsmacked by the incredible dedication of the volunteers who were quietly and efficiently putting out crowd barricades in the drizzle. I know it's a cliche, but a "vigorous, healthy dialogue or ongoing passionate debate" is essential to a strong community. When I get depressed about decisions of the MG Board, or the disillusionment or vitriol on Pinkboard, I keep the faith by thinking about that!
fastlove - Mon Feb 22 10:09:08 1999
You know, the sad thing is that many of the volunteers don't know of the bad decisions or the problems that MG have associated with it this year. They don't read Pinkboard and they rarely read the Gay press. They just do the job for the want of it, for the love of it, or for the tickets. (All are viable reasons). I would wonder what the issue would be if the decisions of the MG Board and the discussions here (omitting the personal slangs) were to become known to all and sundry. I recently had a discussion with some erstwhile volunteers and a couple of subjects came up re: BGF. They were shocked and appalled. They wanted to know more details, so I showed them the SSO and Q - along with this board. They had no idea about the reality of the issues. It made them think twice before volunteering and a few of them are members of MG, too. They even asked why I still do it, taking into account the politics. My answer (above) still stands.
A 78er - Mon Feb 22 10:37:53 1999
In The Know - you know nothing. What an outrageous suggestion that mardi Gras would pay Carole Ann to post her statement above. If carole Ann chooses, at this time of year, to ask that we forget our differences and try to pull together for the sake of the community those who know her would recognise it as the act of a woman that cares about this community very deeply and has done for years. You may think that the present public relations disaster area that the mardi gras board finds itself in is entirely their own fault, and I would agree, but don't lump Carole Ann in with them. Every day one hears complaints about the mardi gras board and the direction in which the company is heading, all very easy to do, but when it comes to attending an annual general meeting where such concerns could be translated into action, how many will turn up? Not many is my guess. The current mess all started when the board sold us out to ticketec, royally pissing off Dawn O'D. in the process. Dawn decided that Sydney deserved an alternative party, and someone at mardi gras (deny it though they will) took the decision to run a spoiling "official" party as well. I find it difficult to swallow the story that this official party had been planned for months when they come up with such a shonky bloody idea. (Roll up, roll up, come and buy your tickets for the losers party where you can watch all the fun being had at the other party across town to which you didn't get tickets. Just a Great concept, mardi gras, big hugs to all who worked for all those months developing that one). The tearing down of the Rainbow Party posters around town, the absence of any details of this party from the faxed list of alternatives, the absence of any mardi gras representative from the Luncheon Club-Acon ballot draw last week and other sundry petty acts of revenge point to deliberate action by at least some members of the mardi gras board. Someone is taking these decisions and to now complain of bad press is disingenious. However Carole Ann is undoubtedly sincere in her wish that the rifts in our community be healed (or at least patched over for the duration). The fact is that the continued award of the pass out system at Mardi gras and sleaze parties is a major source of funding for the Luncheon Club for which she is no doubt grateful. The fact is that the luncheon club was in receipt of a major award from mardi gras which has helped open doors. The simple statement of these facts shouldn't elicit cries of bribery, treason and plot.
Rupert - Mon Feb 22 10:43:45 1999
The fact is that CArol-Ann seems to want to apologise and kill the issue.....suddenly
In The Know - Mon Feb 22 11:10:44 1999
Rupert, I agree, Carol Ann obviously has the community at heart when she wrote her request. 'In the know' I would hope that you *do* have knowledge about this issue. On one hand I can understand your wanting to smooth the waters before the party night, that's laudable. On the other hand (and I am assuming here) that others do not want the issue to rest. I *personally* can understand why. Mardi Gras was built on a foundation of social outrage and calls for equality. There is a large climate of this, this year and perhaps this is good. I would suggest that the Parade is not just a cause celebre, but a chance to bring your statements out to the fore. If an issue disturbs you, then wave a banner about it, let people know and see what your issue(s) are. This is not the time to be silent about issues, but (in the tradition of Mardi Gras and Gay Liberation) it is the time to speak out. Yes, it is time to care for one another, too. The problem is that some of those whom we are supposed to support appear to be doing precious little to support us as a community. I think 'In the Know' was out of line in what they said, but perhaps if you read into that short message, there is more to contemplate. As Rupert said: there are things to observe and think about. I believe sweeping them under the carpet for the duration is just what Mardi Gras wants. That way, things may be forgotten, issues dropped (as Jaded mentioned) in the post-party haze and all will be right with the world. Traditionally, Mardi Gras is a time for social action, and if the establishment (which needs a wake-up call) is one of our own, then it's even more important to ensure that they get it. After all, they (whether we like it or not) represent us to the mainstream.
A 78er - Mon Feb 22 11:11:01 1999
In the (don't) Know - try and get a grip on your conspiracy theories sweetheart, this isn't the Kennedy assassination. You may be confusing David McLachlan, the president of a medium sized company in the business of putting on parties and a festival, with the Anti-Christ. I don't think carole Ann is trying to make the whole story "go away" but is simply asking for a balanced view. The plain fact is, mardi gras as a company has done, and continues to do, good things for the luncheon club for which carole ann is grateful and happy to aknowledge. Does that necessitate an accusation of bribery? I think not. Dear thing that she is, I doubt that even carole ann could, or would wish to, hamper healthy debate about the direction and activities of mardi gras, but healthy debate requires a balanced perspective which carole ann has contributed to.
Rupert - Mon Feb 22 11:47:27 1999
I've still been trying to get my head around the issue of bisexuals in SGLMG (hey, I can be slow but I'm working on it - this may be obvious to other people already). I agree the Board made the wrong decision about the two bisexuals to whom they denied membership "on appeal" - but the system is flawed regardless. The key to sorting it out should be to try and end the lies about sexuality by changing the articles and membership rules that got us into the current situation and that encourage biphobia. "Educate" is right in saying that having any sort of two-tiered m'ship system does and would suggest that bisexuals are second-class citizens of the community. A friend of mine proposed that *somehow* we change the rules to make us *all* subject to some more rigorous test of belonging to the GLBT community and supporting the aims and objectives of MG - "78er"s suggestion of having our names published could be part of that solution but I think more is needed. Maybe a recommendation for membership could also be required not just from two members but additionally from only a small number of people - eg Board members (er..), and heads of a few other GLBT community organisations who agree to do it, (ie GLBT equivalents of elected or legal representatives in wider society). Any more suggestions? In any case it would be a huge and expensive task to institute a new policy on application or next renewal, but it could solve a lot of problems. Bisexuals wouldn't be encouraged to lie about their identity to anyone. And it is an issue of being proud and open about your own identity. I'm not sure how to say this without being insulting, as I know the people who write in to this graffiti wall are doing this already, but maybe bisexuals need to work more on promoting their own identity (and the concepts of an identity based on "fluid sexuality") both within the bi and GLBT communities as a valid alternative which doesn't threaten anyone. I think some MG members are alienated with frustrated cries of discrimination, especially in the straight media. Maybe the challenge to bisexuals is to continue to get leaders, get more organised, get the message out, get respect and get accepted "on the bridge" of SGLMG - rather than just saying you have been aboard all along, sometimes as stowaways, and you still just want to go along for the (Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat)ride.
fastlove - Mon Feb 22 11:49:42 1999
Rupert, I would turn up to the AGM and try and have my say, but as I am bisexual I have been silenced by the current board. As for pulling together, well we (bisexuals) are still fighting to be included, once that issue has been address we can then discuss unity. I would also like to add that Mardi Gras is owned by the community, not a few who have seemed of gained the power. The community shouldn't have to say 'thanks Mardi Gras for being so kind and giving us some of your earnings', this should be expected as Mardi Gras is (should be) a Community Organisation not a corporation.
Educate - Mon Feb 22 14:13:17 1999
fastlove, I laughed. I like Big Gay Al. Anyway, many of us were (allegedly) advised by Board and Staff of Mardi Gras (in their official capacities) to lie on our forms *if* we wanted to help the community by (for eg..) working for them (MG). Many of us *have* been along since day 1, remember there was *no* need to state your preferences in those days, you either were or you weren't. There was no segregation of the shades of Grey. Yes, I agree that some MG members may feel under siege by the discrimination cries in the media. So they should be. They need to know that they are being tarred with the same brush as their erstwhile leaders. This is the side-effect of abrogating responsibility to those you 'elect' (well some of us did, some did not vote for that ticket) and then let run the ship as best they see fit - without giving them feedback as to: "why the ship is heading toward that iceberg". In my opinion, the straight media was the only real one that would make the issue as large as it did. SSO and Q butied the story a few pages in (a generalisation) as opposed to addressing (rather than just looking at) the issue as concerned media would. Also, in my opinion, the straight media deserves to spotlight hypocrisy where it finds it and if the current organisation wants to exist with this clandestinly phobic policy, then they have to be prepared to answer it in both the community and straight media. If they want to continue to garner the support and acceptance of the straight community, the Board (MG) needs to be able to come to grips with the effect of their own arguments and propoganda being used against them by members of their own community. Bisexuals have had leaders for quite a long time, though. A few have worked at Mardi Gras in high ranking capacities in the past. Bisexuals *do* have their own identity - and I must try to phrase this correctly. Their identity is partially seperate yet also subsumed by their Gay (meant in both sexes) identity. Gender fluidity has always existed and the boxes which have sprung up to keep Mardi Gras pure (how aryan sounding is that?) are really no longer valid. In the early days, we had one box: Gay. It meant all facets of same-sex 'love'. Now we are factured and recompartmentalised into smaller and more enclaved groups. In a way, this preserves some unique identities, but in the larger picture it promotes
A 78er - Mon Feb 22 14:53:39 1999
fastlove, it is very unfortunate that GLBT rights will be damaged because of the negative mainstream media attention that Mardi Gras' leaders have caused. Even under this type of scrutiny we have David McLachlan repeatedly saying that it is up to the members, as if he can scream back at us Democracy like some sort of shield. What ever happened to community leaders that lead, David should be spelling out to the community that the exclusion and discrimination of bisexuals is wrong and if we do not address this issue, we will be getting our selves in bigger trouble. One thing for sure, come this time next year, if the bisexual thing is not addressed the mainstream media are going to have another field day. This is something I want to avoid as I don't want people telling me that 'you queers want special rights, but are happy to discriminate against everyone else" , trust me they will not see it as a gay vs bisexual thing at all, as I've said we are all in this together.
Educate. - Mon Feb 22 15:42:22 1999
The most amazing party in the world Panther??? You need to get out and travel the world a bit more!! Love parade which is a gay party in Berlin, last year had 1 million people attend it, and that's only been going for 3/4 years.
what a party. - Mon Feb 22 15:48:50 1999
Why is everyone who is not complaining bitterly automatically assumed to be bought by Mardi Gras. Stop trying to make everything so black and white. It isn't.
Panther - Mon Feb 22 19:42:03 1999
fastlove: keep working at it, you'll get there eventually. It is good see that you have an open mind. Slowly but surely you seem to catching on to the essence of this issue.
Mon Feb 22 20:23:07 1999
Well, Panther, As you said, not everything is black and white. A good lawyer can convine a jury that black *is* white. Did I say lawyer? Mercy me!
Mon Feb 22 21:13:22 1999
Well, Dannii *is* doing a show. I was there tonight at the rehearsal in the Dome. Just finished. See? No Jimmy, yes Dannii. and no-one can stop what was always going to happen. heh heh
Dannii Dancer - Mon Feb 22 21:52:59 1999
To the "dawn patrol" that put those posters up !! Damn, a whole days work girls...If Mardi Gras is seen as being biphobic, why does it endorse (and have it's minions) write about events that are are mixed (gay and straight) and reject or downplay events that are totally gay and lesbian ? This is a perplexing problem. And Dannii ?? This will surely be remembered as the sadness sellout we have ever seen. Mardi Gras has the opportunity to push one of it's own into the spotlight, they had the power (as a medium sized company that puts on parties) to give the publicity that Dannii reaps to a gay or lesbian person/s and they missed the opportunity to fulfil their role as promoters of Australian gay and lesbian culture. As a benevolent organisation, they have failed..and maybe even as a commercial one. How is Dannii's single going in the charts ? Will we find it in the bargain bins of HMV ? There are some nasty people out there..unscrupulous types, just because they are gay or lesbian does not mean they can be trusted. They lie and cheat and slither their way towards the power, powerless to create anything unless it serves themselves. I have sadly found some very mean spirited people in this community, on boards, in the press, administrators of this and that. Sad bunch they are . But in the end the truth shines through. Oh and Carole Anne, don't backdown..you said what you said and you meant it.
depressed - Tue Feb 23 0:09:07 1999
The real problem with the Board? For about the last 6 years the Board has been controlled by a small group of people who have a specific philosophy about gay politics. One of their objectives is to encourage a coalition between gays and lesbians. What is wrong with such a policy you may ask? Nothing. But look what the Board does by pursuing this policy. One year they advertise that its the Sydney gay and lesbian Mardi Gras. The next year its the Lesbian and Gay Mardi Gras. They attempt to get equal numbers of males and females on the Board. They rotate the Presidency between Gays and Lesbians. Big deal you may say. But look what happened with the girls only space. The Lesbians said they wanted their own space because they felt overwhelmed by the boys. So the Board gives them their own space. But when the boys ask for their own space what happens. Oh no, thats not possible. Thats seperatism and against coalition principles. The Board backed tracked on the boys only space when they realized how much hostility their refusal was generating. The current Board's rejection of bi-sexuals is on the same basis. There is no place for bi-sexuality in the fussy thinking of coalition politics. My beef is this. No where in Mardi Gras' charter is coalition policy mentioned. When the directors decide company policy they should leave their politics at home. Their duty is to act in the best interests of the company. This stupid pursuit of political corectness will ultimately be counter-productive. Doesn't the Board realize that its a very small step between banning bisexuals to banning Lesbians from membership. They think it could never happen. Well let me tell you I heard it suggested in many quaters when the boys only space was a hot issue.
Tue Feb 23 1:22:09 1999
How come Mardi Gras are only promoting the gay Dj's for the Satallite party, when home are using 3 of there resident saturday night Dj's, as advertised in 3D today.
Tue Feb 23 1:44:41 1999
fastlove, I have been thinking about policy changes, and very much agree with the need to insure that Mardi Gras is kept for the GLBT community, I'm assuming your main concern is that others from out side the community gain voting rights and may have a negative impact on Mardi Gras either directly or indirectly. Currently we have exactly this, as the party ticket purchases are linked to full membership and people from outside the community are becoming members to purchase tickets by lying about their identity on the membership form. So what is the answer, we can either make 2 types of membership one for those who just want party tickets and one for those that want to get involved in the organisation which get voting rights OR we just change the current system to include bisexual people and don't worry about those that are from outside the community, as they haven't done anything except go to parties so we can 'assume' they won't in the future.
Educate - Tue Feb 23 3:03:11 1999
fastlove, as for bisexual community building without threatening others, well we are doing it now. I've been able to explain a lot about bisexual issues as this message board has enabled an open dialog, the current debate about bisexual inclusion has also been to our community's benefit as it has given an opportunity for growth for all groups involved. SGLMG is not a bridge for bisexual people but is an umbrella organisation that has Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgender people covered by it. These main groups have an opportunity to create and celebrate their own culture and identity while using this umbrella organisation to communicate and educate each other and the wider community, or cross over into areas that interest certain members such as sport, art, health issues, relationships, political activism.
Educate - Tue Feb 23 3:34:17 1999
No Pollyantha - we don't think that everyone who doesn't complain bitterly about Mardi Gras has been bought by Mardi Gras. Some of them have just been duped.
Tue Feb 23 8:00:21 1999
Hey What a Party! Did you ever go to the Love Parade. I suspect not because, lovey, it's not a party but rather a parade. Hence the name Love Parade. Duh. I have been to many clubs and parties around the world and nothing comes close to what is happening out there in Sydney now. For me it is the best event (the parade and party) in the whole world. by the way, listen to OUT FM midday to 2pm today to hear Leeson defend himself against his critics.
Technowarrior - Tue Feb 23 8:45:34 1999
Yes Technowarrior you are right it does start off with a parade like Mardi gras, but finishes with the biggest party i've ever experienced and the friendliest crowd as well as well. And also makes it a great party is the music the Dj's play is fresh, and they cater for all tastes, unlike Mardi Gras.
Tue Feb 23 9:14:49 1999
Mr McLeeson on the air today? Hmmm, pity there will be no debate, just a pre-scripted diatribe defending his right to help Mclachlan crush all opposition to their own narrow-minded views? I will be listening to see what legal wordplay can be used to justify this arrogant and holier-than-thou stance.
Jaded - Tue Feb 23 9:26:38 1999
Dear Technowarrior: you just don't get it. The party director having to go on air to answer his critics!!! One would have thought valuable air time would have been spent promoting the ideals of Mardi Gras. Maybe Leeson's done a good job and his critics have been unfair. The position of Party Director is not meant to be controversial. No doubt, from time to time there will be complaints about the Parade or Festival which the Directors of same will have to address. But I have never known so much opposition to one persons involvement in Mardi Gras. Rightly or wrongly Leeson has become a liability and hes got to go.
Tue Feb 23 9:44:21 1999
Gary will go when Gary wants to go.
Tue Feb 23 9:57:01 1999
When someone makes him go, one way or another.
Tue Feb 23 10:01:40 1999
When someone makes him go, one way or another.
Tue Feb 23 10:02:29 1999
Well my 2c worth about the party. Apparently, according to what is here and on other walls, and talking in some bars last night, the Dannii show is on. Rehearsals were on in the Dome last night. The Jimmy Barnes rumour was put out to promote dissention and to see who could be duped. The bottom line is that no-one can really say who is appearing in the shows and that (fortunately or unfortunately) is the way it should be. One of the magic moments of the night is not knowing who is appearing until they do (I fondly remember Kylie's show and having the place go bananas because they weren't expecting her). So, the bottom line is that we really have to wait until Dannii, Jimmy (Barnes or Sommerville) Cher, whoever *does* their show and then we can either applaud or decry the choices made. Remember that we do not vote in the Party Director, so we really have no say in who does this direction. It's purely at the behest of the Mardi Gras Board. So, if something happens on the night that you don't agree with, please note it down and give it to a Board Member (identified by their VIP passes) as well as keeping a copy for yourself. Well, if you are artificially happy that night, you may forget and (as has been said earlier) everything will blend into a feel-good night of artificial stupor. Don't forget what you see, don't forget whatever goes wrong, don't forget whatever goes right, note it down for later. Also, please remember that the volounteers, Medical and Mardi Gras Security Rangers do not have a say in what happens on the night, they are there to help and are performing duties as they are directed by the Party Management. At the end of the night (or the next day) note down your grievances (or plaudits) and send them off to here and copy them to SSO and Q along with Mardi Gras themselves. That way a full spectrum of feedback can be attained. By a concentrated effort and wide disemmination, can change be effected. However, facts (as opposed to speculation) are required more than anything else. Whatever happens, have a safe and discrimination-free Mardi Gras.
A 78er - Tue Feb 23 10:34:18 1999
We aren't 'we' anymore, seemingly. If we can't stop eating at our own strength from the inside, how can we change the perceptions and realitites of living GLTB in NSW today? Go to the bloody AGM. Vote. Run for office yourself.Back someone who has ideas and ideals you feel comfortable with. Or Shut Up! Please, everyone have a safe and happy Mardi Gras - Celebrate it. Four sleeps to go!!!!
marching girl - Tue Feb 23 14:23:31 1999
Dear Marching Girl, in the last 21 years I *have* gone to AGMs, voted, backed people in whose ideals I believed in and/or felt comfortable with.
A 78er - Tue Feb 23 14:46:47 1999
Does anyone know that SGLMG are doing their best to close the Raw nerve gallery, which is funded by them. It is a gallery that is focused on showing the work of both established and emerging gay and lesbian artists. It is an ivestment of only $30,000 per annum (far more is given out to many spurious attempts at culture within the festival), which actually achieves far more of the objectives in the mission statement than most other areas within the organisation. It is about recognising the contribution that the artists within our community have made towards our struggle of recognition and their development. The gallery, which is supposed to be an official committee of Mardi Gras,has submitted many detailed strategic plans, summaries and outlines (many far more detailed than those of MG itself), only to have no response. They are only told informally that they are not part of the core business of mardi gras and will have to lobby to be included as part of the strategic plan for the organisation. They are now the only contact that the community can have with the organisation directly (since they have outsourced ticketing there is very little need to visit the fortress.) They have supported many artists over the past 3 years and helped many gain widespread recognition. They have contact regularly with those whom MG should highlight in their festival. But why are they told that they are not valuable. Many volunteers give up time to support this aspect of the organisation and are disillusioned to be told that their contribution is not worthwhile. Can we have some return to the grassroots of our community and support those who will become our public face (culturally) in years to come?
The other phanton insider - Tue Feb 23 20:49:02 1999
What don't I just get? I was simply informing the board that he was going to be on air. Are you making some pathetic pedantic point about how I have worded that information?" If so, try getting a life.
Technowarrior - Tue Feb 23 22:37:40 1999
So, we have MG against BGF, Bisexuals, Luncheon Club, (allegedly) Pride and Raw Nerve Gallery. How many times must this organisation shoot itself in the foot, before we muster it out and replace the 'brain' with something which works....like a brain?
Shaking head in disbelief - Wed Feb 24 8:58:26 1999
Dear Other Phantom Insider, can you elaborate on the details? Can you tell us where your information comes from? Merely not wanting to have people jump on the 'Jimmy Barnes is playing at MG' bandwagon.
A 78er - Wed Feb 24 9:00:51 1999
Maybe at the next AGM we should move a resolution to give Gary Leeson a gold watch and thank him for all his hard work as party director.
Natural Tan - Wed Feb 24 9:34:06 1999
Did anyone hear the Leeson interview on OUT.FM yesterday? What was said? What excuses were given?
Wed Feb 24 9:46:53 1999
Dot has lost is edge..Gary has a wife back in his native Brisbane and his former occupation was in "retail" apparently a David Jones shop assistant. Dot tried to lead him into the what in pinkboard about you thing..he said he didn't read it...very dull and boring and boysie
Wed Feb 24 10:49:08 1999
So, the interview - Leeson Answers His Critics - was a nothing situation? Nothing was answered? Comments ranged from: "The party will bo cool" to "The Party will be cool"??? What was the point? Didn't Dot actually quote Pinkboard comments?
Wed Feb 24 11:01:23 1999
Did you expect more from Leeson? Remember, he is no rocket scientist. If he had half a rocket scientist's brain we'd be treated to more than line after line of drag queens coming down the stairs.
Wed Feb 24 11:08:45 1999
I would expect that Leeson would actually anser the critics as opposed to just a simple self-promotion exercise.
Wed Feb 24 11:13:41 1999
Dear 78er Of course you have a right to rant. Yours is one of the few 'rants' that makes informative reading. And you keep it civil! I'll be there too at the next AGM - and hope to see you there enjoying the parade and party.
marching girl - Wed Feb 24 11:31:21 1999
Thanks Marching Girl. I'll be at Taylor Square and at the Party. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what happens at both venues on the night.
A 78er - Wed Feb 24 11:42:57 1999
Dear '78er. Ask any MG board member and they will tell you that they have decided, for reasons of focussing on core business, they have withdrawn their support and funding for the gallery (information which they wont give to anyone actually running the gallery. Ask them how they believe they can expand into a record label as core busines the only answer you get is- It makes money, and thats different.
the other phanton insider - Wed Feb 24 13:52:17 1999
So, Phantom Insider, let me get this correct. To support the community in ventures such as Raw Nerve, is wrong. To launch a record label (with no community consultation) is right. To support community ventures is wrong, to make money is right. To admit bisexuals is wrong, to promote straight artists is right. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing up my understanding of the core-business of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.
A 78er - a78er@hotmail.com - Wed Feb 24 14:18:36 1999
Dot's lost his edge?? Waddaya mean? Dot never had an edge. He's G&L radio's answer to James Valentine.
Can't wait for Free FM to be back on air - Wed Feb 24 23:00:59 1999
MIX 106 FM this morning, 7:26am. The following comments were heard from the on-air announcers: "According to his Agent....Jimmy Barnes performing at the Mardi Gras....a man known as a pub-rock icon more than having anything to do with the Gay community....there goes his career....find out what people think....some quarters are not happy about it". Well, the debate has just hit the mainstream media and people are not happy. I shudder to think how many westies are going to try to crash the flimsy walls to either get to see Jimmy Barnes (whether he's performing or not) or to get revenge for having him sell out to the gay community. If the Barnsey thing is a rumour, then the people who started it may just have set the stage for some very ugly scenes on Saturday night. If it was started by Mardi Gras, they deserve instant dismissal for the potential ramifications and potential security risks to the community on the night.
Now I'm concerned. - Thu Feb 25 8:01:53 1999
Well, there's no morality where money is concerned. This morning the Daily Telegraph - home of Piers Akerman's, Mike Gibson's and Ray Chesterson's carping, misinformed, intolerant, damaging and misleading attacks on the lesbian and gay community and Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras - has its own four page Mardi Gras liftout. Advertising: at least 45 percent.
Thu Feb 25 8:14:41 1999
For those who don't read the Tele, it includes an interview with - guess who - you can't? - Mardi Gras' new best friend, Danni Minogue.
Thu Feb 25 8:16:24 1999
The article is headed "Singing for her friends" and has as the intro para "Pop performers such as Dannii Minogue will do anything to have a Mardi Gras anthem - even kissing someone of the same sex."
Thu Feb 25 8:17:27 1999
Other gems from the interview: "I became good friends with everyone from Mardi Gras. They were having troubles with their record label and I said 'Have I got the song for you.' We had to update it, pop music is like dog years. One year is like seven human years."
Thu Feb 25 8:19:11 1999
The accompanying video sees Dannii renewing her creative partnership with some lesbian performers she used when performing All I wanna do at last year's Mardi Gras. The scene of Dannii kissing a girl has caused a minor fracas.
Thu Feb 25 8:20:28 1999
"It wasn't meant to be shocking. Those rap videos talking about ho's and bitches. I find that far more disturbing. It's good for lesbians to be seen in a different light by the straight community, seen as sensual and pretty and not just dykes on bikes or leather girls."
Dannii Minogue - Telegraph 25/2/99 - Thu Feb 25 8:22:36 1999
That's such a stereotype of lesbians and it's just not true. It was fun to put my neck on the line for someone else. Down the track it might have an effect on my career, but I don't care. I'd rather do something I believe in."
Dannii Minogue - Telegraph 25/2/99 - Thu Feb 25 8:23:44 1999
Meanwhile ... the singer admits she's even hooked up with Australia's king of rock and roll.
Thu Feb 25 8:24:57 1999
"I've been hanging out with Jimmy Barnes and his wife Jane. We were brought together by clubbing, he wants to make dance music."
Dannii Minogue, Telegraph 25/2/99 - Thu Feb 25 8:26:15 1999
Other gems in the liftout include an ad placed by the Labor candidate Vic Smith. Wonder whether the Telegraph's sales department contacted Liberal candidate Peter Fussell or the current independent MP Clover Moore offering to sell them ad space?
Thu Feb 25 8:28:09 1999
But then, the Tele seems to be backing Vic all the way - probably because of Clover's record of standing up for local residents against the massive Fox redevelopment of the Showground. Vic'll probably support Fox and Murdoch getting everything they want.
Thu Feb 25 8:29:46 1999
And we hear Vic is being supported by that other great mate of the gay and lesbian community and Mardi Gras - Alan Jones
Thu Feb 25 8:30:29 1999
Perhaps the Tele's support for Mardi Gras and Vic is the precursor of the next great corporate takeover battle - Murdoch's move to wholly own Mardi Gras
Thu Feb 25 8:32:55 1999
But then he's well on his way - after all the Teletoadies are already in control.
Thu Feb 25 8:33:25 1999
I also heard the comments on MIX 106 a while ago. 'concerned', you may be right. There would be potential issues at the site, but as far as I am aware there will be a large police and security presence. The thing that does disturb me is that a mainstream media public announcement (just after the news) that Jimmy Barnes is playing Mardi Gras can have all kinds of potential outcomes. Whoever leaked this (and I mean an obviously reliable source) needs to have their head(s) read. Obviously there is some Public Relations issue brewing and perhaps more than a little PR mismanagement happening. Remember, that in this climate of fragile political gains for our community, we are balanced on a knife edge. The Sisters Tour of the Opera House debacle has proved that any gains can be taken away. Mainstream publicity does not mean a good outcome to such publicity. The old PT Barnum maxim of 'any publicity is good publicity' does not hold when addressed to a community as fragiley balanced and tentatively accepted as ours. I hope that Mardi Gras is aware of the potential disaster (both in reality and PR) that this announcement could engender, as the 'straight' community reacts to this mornings radio 'story'.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Thu Feb 25 8:36:17 1999
Thanks early riser...for the Dannii gems..she is a pea brain, and frankly fits right in with all the other Mardi gras honchos. As for poor Dot trying to squeeze anything controversial out of Brisso Leeson, he spent more time trying to get Leeson's first boyfriend out of him...newly out Gary squeeled with glee when he exclaimed "I just went off that first time Dot"...Oh groan..Though the good news is he's giving up this year and not coming back...But is it enough to turn the Mardi Gras back into our festival and party ?? There are plans underway for the next AGM...heavily stacked in our favour !! watch out mg...the big guns are out after your hides. This debarcle must never happen again..Don't let our Mardi Gras fade into the pages of the Telegraph, with our community being represented by leatherdyke hating Danniis and fading rockers cashing in....I feel abused, used and exploited, not a good feeling when I am supposed to be celebrating my sexuality.
appalled - Thu Feb 25 8:48:42 1999
|
We have in place a very simple system. The members elect a board of directors. The directors appoint a Party Director who heads up a Party committee. It is that committee which produces the Party. They are responsible for engaging the performers for the night. The tradition has been of course not to reveal details of the performers and shows. I can never remember there ever being a community forum or discussion (or it ever being raised at an AGM) as to whether there should be a criteria for selecting performers. It is simply a task that the committee attend to. When Saturday night comes and goes, it may be that Jimmy was one of the performers. It may be that some members think he is an inappropriate choice. Others, like myself, are a little more relaxed about the whole thing. The bottom line is that the time may have come for some sort of selection criteria to be established. To be honest I think there are other issues that are far more pressing needing attention. But this issue still is a valid one. I'm sure many will argue that the performers should in fact be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. Others will simply want shown commitment to the gay & lesbian communities irrespective of the performer's sexuality. Others, I'm sure are happy with the system the way it is and let the committee make up its own mind as to who performs. On another matter, what's S'ra Albion up to? She was Gary's predeccessor.
Yikes another debate - Wed Feb 24 12:39:16 1999 |
old anarchist - Thu Feb 25 9:01:09 1999
The 'simple system'we have in place has led to crony-ism of the worst degree, and having inept persons tackling jobs which you generally need experience and (these days) degrees and/or University courses to handle. Yes, there are Event Management courses which take a year to complete and even then, you need experience behind you to get into the course. To my knowledge Mr Leeson has neither of these (degrees in an appropriate discipline pertaining to an event of this size and caliber, or a Certificate in Event Management). The Party Director - along with Festival Director, etc... should have experience in the areas and disciplines. One of the most important criteria is the relationship with stakeholders in the Event(s). I would assume that the GLBT community were the largest stakeholders, seeing as this is their celebration. Thge election of the Board, unfortunately, does not give the membership (of MG) a say in who does what. This is in a way unfortunate, as it leaves the system (simple though it may be) open to rorting and nepotism. People with no experience, other than (presumably) being mates with the Board - I cite Mr Leeson's interview yesterday as proof of this. He has had no prior experience in the field. I can only assume that this (being friends with the Board, or individual members) is one of the reasons that some people are chosen for their positions. This is mainly because some have shown, what appears to be, a spectacular ineptness for some tasks - as we have discussed here. Perhaps it is time that some checks and balances are installed so that the community doesn't just have to accept what is given them, but can have a say in what happens.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Thu Feb 25 9:17:13 1999
78...the logical conclusion is that mg will cease to be a community association and become a business. The best thing they can do for our community GLBT is this..then we can get on with reconstructing the whole thing. As a business they can hire and fire anyone they like, eventually mg will become "the festival of Sydney 2" with very little glbt content..the doors are open for us to create a new festival/parade/party following the original plan...political agitation !!! subversiveness. MG has no shock value anymore and has lost it's effectiveness as a political force...I am bored with it so imagine how society in general sees it..it's just a giant traffic headache for most Eastern Suburbs residents...now a parade through the streets of Blacktown !!! That's confrontational !!! Next year there will be great changes made to the whole concept, it will start with the entire board being voted out, and replaced with those with the experience and integrity to produce a dazzling meaningful month of celebration for all of us....sans Dannii, sans Jimmy sans David jones checkout blokes.
a 78er 2 - Thu Feb 25 9:42:01 1999
Dawn for President 2000 !!!
Thu Feb 25 9:45:16 1999
David McLachlan, as quoted on Jimmy Barnes and Dannii performing at the SGLMG Party, from Page 13 of today's Daily Telegraph: "I think it's very dangerous to judge the strength of feeling on a couple of letters to our community newspapers", he said. "It's hard to know why someone like Jimmy would be more or less acceptable than a whole lot of other performers we've had over the years".
Thu Feb 25 10:18:58 1999
David McLachlan, on Dannii and Jimmy performing at the SGLMG Party, as quoted on Page 13 of today's Daily Telegraph: "I think it's very dangerous to judge the strength of feeling on a couple of letters to our community newspapers," he said. "It's hard to know why someone like Jimmy would be more or less acceptable than a whole lot of other performers we've had over the years."
posted twice 'coz it didn't work first time - Thu Feb 25 10:22:39 1999
78er 2. While I agree that there is more than a little room for change, the traditional route must be maintained. Yes, I agree, vote out the inept. Cause MG to become answerable to the GLBT community at large. However, remember that MG is a celebration as well as a chance to make political statements. I agree that a lot of the meaning of the parade has been lost with the glitz and gloss and that is something which, I think, should be re-addressed. Further, Mardi Gras is a company (or sorts) at the moment. However, it is still answerable to the 8,000+ members. I am hoping that these 8,000+ members will show up (or proxy) at the AGM (or EGM) when they can make their displeasure known. A parade through Blacktown may be confrontationl, but I would rather not court disaster at this stage. redefine the parade and the party and MG Policy, yes, but don't go out on a limb yet. Issues need to be addressed and in some climates, the softer softer approach is more germaine. I, for one, have an issue with Dannii being asked to represent the community as headlining the CD. I also have a huge issue with not being asked if I wanted a record label formed. The business of Mardi Gras needs to be rationalised. The umbrella organisation which it was needs to be revitalised and brought back to what it was. Someone earlier on this board made the excellent suggestion of having MG as the umbrella for other groups, all banding together for celebrations such as Sleaze, MG Parade, Festival and Party. Imagine how that would work, if it were being run professionally by the Community Organisation which MG was formed to be. GLBT, inclusive and strong.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Thu Feb 25 10:24:31 1999
David is in a daze...someone please wake him immediately...yeah a few letters..what about all the others that didn't make it into print ? and all the post on thos board...MG needs to set up a board on it's own website and then they might discover the truth about the numbers!!! God they do amrket research don't they?
Morgan - Thu Feb 25 10:26:21 1999
posted twice 'coz it didn't work first time - well, now we know. All these people posting to the graffitti walls, writing letters to the editor (perhaps the SSO and CapQ could give us a count of how many anti-Dannii anti DMc letters they have received) grizzling in the beer along Oxford St, winging over the dinner table - are just a couple of malcontents. Geeze, if this was the '50s or '60s David would probably accuse us of all being commos. At least we're pinker than he is!
Thu Feb 25 10:41:59 1999
I think David McLachlan has just shown how much under seige he really is. This statement in the Telegraph rings of 'spin control' (read: damage control). I think someone should deliver a copy of this information board to the Telegraph.
Thu Feb 25 10:47:32 1999
Anti Discrimination Board Lesbian and Gay Consultation - Notice of Meeting (5.30pm Wednesday 24th March). Agenda item 3 - Mardi Gras membership (who should be excluded?. Now this should be an interesting meeting. Perhaps from Monday we're going to be in for some very interesting times. Stay tuned.
There's movement at the station - Thu Feb 25 13:50:49 1999
hear..hear..DAWN for presie! - what a great idea
Thu Feb 25 14:05:34 1999
Is that meeting open to the public?
excited yet cautious - Thu Feb 25 14:07:03 1999
dear 78er (the original). Thankyou, thankyou thankyou. Well said. Again.
marching girl - Thu Feb 25 14:13:58 1999
excited yet cautious - it should be. Ring the Anti-Discrimination Board on 9318 5400 and find out.
Thu Feb 25 15:05:12 1999
So the Anti-Discrimination Board have latched onto the bisexual issue. One thing we can be sure of is that the law clerk jellyfish, Fuhrer David McLachlan is too much of spineless, gutless, lily-livid, wormlike, yellow, wimpish, wussy cowardly chicken to turn up to a forum which he can't control to defend his outrageous (sorry "outwageous" as he say) indefensible, discriminatory, neo-fascist decisions.
Thu Feb 25 15:10:09 1999
'Excited' and 'anon', I've just spoken with the ADB and the meeting on the 24th of March is open to selected (booked) members of the public. This is one of the areas where vote-stacking will not work. The ADB has a history of rational stances and so I urge those who find it unjust that Messers Durber and Vassallo (apologies to others whom I may not know of) were excluded from becoming Mardi Gras members merely because they ticked Bisexual in the box of the application form (ie: they didn't lie), then please book to attend this meeting and voice your concerns.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Thu Feb 25 15:28:19 1999
oh dear marching girl, you don't seem like much fun
99 er - Thu Feb 25 16:01:15 1999
The idea of an ADB meeting sounds really worthwhile and I'd like to be there to participate - the issue of bisexual membership in SGLMG is an important one and it would be great if the consultation with the ADB could produce some productive, clear thinking, and greater understanding. I also think the bisexual membership issue is caught up in a broader set of problems with the membership system and the Board really needs to work on some new solutions, soon - so the meeting could stimulate that process too.
fastlove - Thu Feb 25 16:11:05 1999
fastlove, I certainly hope so.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Thu Feb 25 21:41:45 1999
Tim Elkinton and Simon Lloyd are (were) great friends with Rob Patmore. Richard Cobden is (was) great friends with Rob Patmore. Tim Elkinton and Simon Lloyd were successful in taking out an AVO against Richard Cobden.
I blame Rob Patmore - Thu Feb 25 22:15:18 1999
i blame Rob Patmore - are you such a bitch you had to post such trivia???
yuk - Thu Feb 25 23:45:32 1999
Richard Cobden's nickname for Rob Patmore was "Patsy" - and that just about sums up how Cobden and his ilk regarded him.
I was there at the time - Fri Feb 26 8:31:23 1999
Can someone get a hit on Dickey ? Imagine the headlines "Slap happy legal bloke found legless"
Fri Feb 26 8:44:29 1999
This is a serious question. Can someone explain why the vitriol toward Richard Cobden and Rob Patmore? They were always nice enough people, as far as I delt with them. Is there something which we don't know.
Confused - Fri Feb 26 9:36:17 1999
Yup, I forgot to mention the Today Show mentions about Jimmy Barnes and Dannii Minogue, this morning. This (again) goes to promote the potential backlash and/or profiling of the MusicLabel. I suppose that this year will go down in (in)famy as the 'straightening' of Mardi Gras. Just one question, though. If Mardi Gras is busy promoting straight artists at the (Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Party), why are they banning bisexuals from joining the organisation? At least Bisexuals engage in same-sex love and relationships.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Fri Feb 26 10:30:51 1999
When you look at it that way, Mardi Graft really are a bunch of hypocrites.
Astounded - Fri Feb 26 10:43:24 1999
Confused - There's no particular vitriol towards Rob Patmore. He's quite a decent guy. As for Cobden - he's obviously never phoned you at home late at night to express his opinions to you or of you.
Fri Feb 26 11:00:14 1999
Why would Richard Cobden do that? I'm at a loss to understand.
Confused - Fri Feb 26 11:25:51 1999
There's no rhyme or reason to anything anymore. Maybe there never was. Maybe there never will be.
If i can't balme rob, then I'm gonna blame Happy Ho - Fri Feb 26 11:49:49 1999
how many of us know a gay man or woman who has been married? doesn't that make them a bi-sexual? should we now have a witch-hunt and get them out of mardi gras? my god..i just dont believe all this claptrap...mardi gras wont give straights and bi's membership but is quite happy to have them perform for us.....hypocrites!!!! so mr. david and power mongering board, when are you going to remove 'pflag' from the parade? I guess these brave mums and dads cant get membership either! mardi gras has become such a pathetic cesspit of division! i look forward to the day it is disbanded.
Fri Feb 26 13:24:44 1999
why dont we march on mardi gras headquarters and let them really know how pissed we all are! if we can do it on parliament house, we can surely do it on that 'sexuality police station' in erskineville.
fed up - Fri Feb 26 13:40:00 1999
OK, I think enough is enough, now. Not only was the story broken IN MIX.FM on Monday, but the story was also confirmed on JJJ (by Adam Spencer) this morning and on the Today show. The time of the Jimmy Barnes Show is 4am (although odds are on that it will be changed). I await Channel V and MTV coverage tonight and tomorrow morning. I know other stations have latched onto the story. Thus, does Mardi Gras not only disregard the desires of the community, but it also flouts it's 'power' by openly advertising the fact. I wonder how the Party Director feels about this information being given out. I'm sure that the excuse will be that there was an 'unauthorised leak' and 'measures are being taken'. This is the catch-cry most often used when information is leaked. One thing for certain, this temptation of the Barnesy following to crash Mardi Gras is now very overwhelming. I can only hope that the community appreciates that this 'representative (of the community) artist' and his following have been courted and publicity generated for him at our expense. This is another issue which needs to be brought before the Board.
A 78er a78er@hotmail.com - Fri Feb 26 14:58:58 1999
Confused - You ask why would Richard Cobden phone people late at night? You might as well ask why an AVO has been taken out against him. None of us know why Richard does the things he does. If we did, we would know what treatment we should be reccomending.
Fri Feb 26 19:11:52 1999
The song Barnsey is doing is "You make me feel mighty real". He is saying that we are essential to his life! Let's make sure everyone hears that this is what he is saying to us.
Fri Feb 26 19:21:47 1999
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I am so pleased to see that Drum Media is not supporting the Home party on Saturday night, yet they are supporting the Rainbow Party. I hope Home crashes and burns Mardi Gras' financial fingers badly.
Anti-discrimination - Fri Feb 26 12:25:51 1999 |
Fri Feb 26 20:59:23 1999
Re confused: all I can say is - Betty Ford, darling, Betty Ford.
Fri Feb 26 21:01:16 1999
Dhalings - Civil war was declared just over four years ago. This is just the latest skirmish.
Fri Feb 26 23:08:58 1999
I think that this is more than a skirmish, this is probably a chapel perilous.
Sat Feb 27 0:22:50 1999
Strength in numbers, strength in heart.
Sat Feb 27 7:46:00 1999
Mardi Gras seem to be bedding with the Telegraph at the moment. Yesterday the Monica's, apparently the most media sought after float in the parade, did an exclusive photo shoot with the Telegraph. They were a little uncomfortable about it considering that the Tele is the home of the likes of Gibson, Ackerman and Divine. It was arranged by the Mardi Gras publicist who apparently would not allow anyone else access to them yesterday, despite many requets. So much so, that the shoot, which was scheduled for Oxford St, was moved to some Surry Hills back street because Oxford St was crawling with media and the Tele insisted on exclusive shots. Maybe its a way for MG to change editorial and readership thinking of the Tele in the same way that it has done so at the SMH which, if true, is good thinking - so long as the Tele sacks Gibson, Ackerman and Divine.
Technowarrior - Sat Feb 27 10:53:34 1999
Please help!!! Are Richard Cobden and Gary Leeson in a long term relationship ? Someone really B I G wants to know ???
dawn patrol - Sat Feb 27 15:43:17 1999
dawn patrol - Yes, they have been, but then they weren't, then they were, now they're not ... but soon they might be ... you see, RC's and GL's relationship mirrors Richard's personality.
Sat Feb 27 16:02:54 1999
Okay everyone. it's time to put away the knives, the stillettos, the bitchiness, the attacks, - for one evening - so we can all come together in a spirit of gay and lesbian love and pride and celebrate how far we've come, and yes, acknowledge how far we have to go. So everyone, if you see Richard Cobden, Gary Leeson, David Mclachlan, Danni, Jimmy or any of their friends, well give them a big smile, extend the hand of friendship and wish them "happy Mardi Gras". And if you're someone who has fallen foul of them in the past few months, well put aside your bitterness and join in the joy of tonight.
Pollyantha - Sat Feb 27 17:01:30 1999
(Not Panther)
I can't believe I just wrote what I wrote. I knew I shouldn't have taken them so early.
Pollyantha - Sat Feb 27 17:02:54 1999
(Not Panther)
continued...
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