Pinkboard: SGLMG Graffiti Wall 19

Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Limited is currently under Voluntary Administration. This week the creditors will decide its future. Many hope that it will survive. Others hope for a clean slate.

This wall is to discuss the future of Mardi Gras and various options for the future of the company.

Mardi Gras Home Page
Yahoo! Discussion Group Our-Mardi-Gras
SGLMG Graffiti Wall 18
Mardi Gras Graffiti Wall 20
The Deed of Arrangement
Draft Financial Reports 2002 - PDF requires Adobe Acrobat Reader - this was to have been published in the Annual Report

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- Mon 26 Aug 2002 13:59:47

I was told after a board meeting that our offer had been accepted and that we are the new principal sponsor from the management and board of the SGLMG.

We then assisted in paying more that $10?000 for the printing of the AGM and other stationary and office supplies requests.

Every step of the way we where told that things are well and another person had already put up money to pay for existing debts and our money would be used to assist the organisation move forward. I was more than happy to assist in any way I could.

A few days after paying moneys for the AGM printing and stationary I find that in fact the person who had ?offered? to pay the existing debt had pulled out and the organisation was in administration that morning. We also where told that they had made a ?mistake? and they forgot that they already had given exclusive sponsorship to Telstra our competitor for just $60?000. Our offer was $120?000 plus a credit line that the organisation was already spending!

Then our organisation was approached to look into running the Sleaze Ball on behalf of the SGLMG. After much investigation we discovered disturbing news. We had to ask ourself what was going through the minds of the board when they made announcements to their members to purchase tickets. Persons that purchased these tickets I suggest you contact Ticketek and or Department of Fair Trading.

And you ask why other business and Gay run organisations are not jumping to assist? Would you really want to do business with these cowboys? I ask what experience do these people have in running a profitable event?

I am really going to miss the Party and Parade. I think if the South Sydney council could pick it up it would get run correctly. But current management should not be supported any further. As a creditor this is my say?.

I will continue to support my community and in fact I ask many of you thinking about what they can do to support The Luncheon Club and Queer Screen. They really needed the support of Mardi Gras and now really need your support.
Upset Creditor - Mon 26 Aug 2002 14:35:49
Pinkboard is unable to verify this statement.

As a member of Mardi Gras I feel some sense of responsibility for the situation of both creditors and Board members. This is because it is true that organisational culture has contributed to the current problems. In fact I would go further and say that I consider that previous Boards and memberships virtually locked the current Board into a way of operating that included a relatively large and expensive festival, lack of cash reserves, few tangible or realisable assets, spending large amounts of money yet to be earned based on projections for next years events (a problem because of the lack of reserves and assets so if projections were too far out, bills could not be paid) and dependence on two large parties to earn income. Recent Boards recognised MG's financial vulnerability and tried to diversify income sources with MG Music, Travel etc. It has since been noted this was probably a mistake and simply took the organisation away from what it did best. However, it was an honest attempt to deal with the problem and we gave them little choice as we demanded:

 that the events be big and glitzy but not too expensive;
 several important events like Launch were free but we still wanted them to be fabulous;
 many people resented any attempt by Mardi Gras to raise money for itself rather than just provide opportunities for others. Indeed even at free events money was collected by almost everyone except Mardi Gras. There probably would have been an outcry had it collected;
 generally we did not want them to chase the corporate dollar harder than they were or to allow any significant sponsorship or private promotion in the Parade;
 very few of us would have re-elected a Board that came to us and said, "we have no cash reserves, this cannot go on we must have a very bare bones Festival next year" (but ticket prices remain the same). We would have all whinged when we got our Festival Guides and it was a bit thin and perhaps had little in it that excited us. I recall making that comment last year. (Although I may not have if the need for a smaller festival had been explained and perhaps more could have been done lately to have an umbrella style festival at less direct cost to MG.)

And so on. In short we did not want to know about the realities and did not care about the lack of reserves until we saw it falling over.

I do not say that all these things were wrong (restricting commercialism in the Parade seemed desirable to me, for example) but that taken together the number of demands we placed on it as well as a pattern of operating that had developed over many years made our organisation so vulnerable that it only took one disappointing Sleaze and Mardi Gras to bring it down - even after $1million was cut from the budget at the last minute.

The time for post mortems is over but we need to ensure these mistakes and vulnerabilities are not repeated. This includes not only attitudinal change but being careful of what new structure we put in place and the commitments we impose on it. This is one of my concerns about the XYZ option as it may risk locking the new organisation into continuing as before. However, this depends to some extent on the answers to questions that I do not know especially about what the sponsors are expecting in terms of future events or who they are. Certainly the proposal ties XYZ into quite taking on quite large liabilities and a particular repayment schedule. It may put other supportive organisations at risk although I know they will work to avoid this. My distress at losing MG certainly won't be lessened by losing others.

The hardest consideration for me, however, is to what extent these concerns about the staff and possibly other creditors and the Board being sued should play a part in deciding how to move forward or, in particular, assessing the XYZ option.

I don't think the Deed of Arrangement is the only way to do the right thing by staff although it may be the only way for all creditors to get satisfaction.

As for the rest, I'm tending to think we need to be a bit dispassionate and assess the proposal on its merits. Perhaps these problems ultimately are just not the responsibility of either XYZ or more accurately LAPQ (LobbyAconPrideQueerscreen).

In choosing between the two evils (to the extent we have a choice at all) we need to know does the XYZ proposal put the four orgs at risk, is XYZ paying way too much for the assets, what commitments other than the payments will XYZ have when it comes into life, are the four organisations now privy to all the information they need? Like Larry I am also very interested in what the real level of interest in buying Mardi Gras by commercial ventures has been. If some of this information cannot be disclosed to all of us (such as names of potential sponsors/buyers), we need to be sure it's been disclosed more fully to the four orgs.
Kathy Sant - Mon 26 Aug 2002 16:56:40

As I said in an earlier post, I was not necessarily opposed to MGL being liquidated. I would feel more comfortable about MGL's liquidation if I could be assured that:

1. staff entitlements would be paid;

2. community organisations who are MGL creditors would not suffer severely if they were not paid;

3. board members received the assistance (legal, financial and personal) they would need should they be sued - and it has been suggested to me that the risk of their being sued is not high.

4. that if community attempts to continue the Mardi Gras tradition gave rise to legal action being taken against some community members for "passing off" (even though that may also be unlikely) the community would support them in defending such actions.

Having assurances on these 4 points would make it easier to approach the choices we have dispassionately.
Larry Galbraith - Mon 26 Aug 2002 18:04:48

While I was generally supportive of the 'community coalition' (and can we please call it PALQ - a much more suitable, and accurate, acronym) when I became aware of it last week, my view has moderated somewhat in light of the information provided (not, distressingly, by board members) at Saturday's meeting regarding the problems associated with the transfer of the MG debts to a new organisation, and the possibility of any new organisation being saddled with what seems to me to be a punishing (and unrealistic, given Mardi Gras Ltd 'profitability' throughout its history?) 'repayments' schedule.

I think the following questions need to be answered before next Saturday:

1. How can ACON as a (semi) government agency (and let's be honest that it is a 'community organisation' in name only as it is principally funded by, and answerable to, the government) commit itself to financing any new 'MG' venture? I acknowledge Adrian Lovney's qualificatory statements on Saturday, but has the ACON board considered dipping into those funds raised by the 'Hand in Hand' parties and other fund-raising activities - and can it do this under the laws applying to its fund-raising?
2. While acknowledging Andrew Pickles' reservations about GLRL commitment, the reality is that the Lobby struggles to survive each year, and has been significantly dependant on the income from the old 'Harbour Party' (and has the Royal Botanical Gardens and Domain Trust considered transferring the planned 'Botanica' in 2003 to another organisation given Mardi Gras' uncertain future?) Does the Lobby intend to be a participant in name and time commitment only?
3. The same question applies to Queerscreen. My understanding is that it has relied on Mardi Gras funding, although sensibly has expanded its income sources through sponsorship etc. Has it undertaken any financial commitment to PALQ? If Queerscreen is part of the coalition, are there other organisations that form an integral part of the MG season that should also be involved?

Part of the debate (hopefully on Saturday) has to centre on 'Do we want a Mardi Gras-like season to occur in February-March each year?' If we do (and I'm on the record as saying that this has to be answered in large part by our younger sisters and brothers) we need to consider whether we can, or want to, call it 'Mardi Gras'. Although dear Gertrude said 'A rose is a rose is a rose' we should think about the advantages (while acknowledging problems arising from 'passing off') calling it something else entirely (perhaps 'Pride'). This would remove the 'Gay and Lesbian' naming problem - it seems to me that the debate on that might be already largely over. We can get our mouths around 'QTIBLG' if necessary, and actually bring Sydney into line with the shifts in thinking and naming that have occurred overseas as to what constitutes our 'community'.

Murray McLachlan
- Mon 26 Aug 2002 20:02:05

There will always be people who will go along to the party. And all it takes is a few before the rest go along. as for businesses do you honestly think that non-gay owned businesses will not hold events just because we don't want them too? and do you think that people will boycott a club like ARQ (just an example) if ARQ decides to hold an official recovery etc?

We need to think this thru very seriously. i don't think that boycotts will happen when it is something that so many of us can't do without.
- Mon 26 Aug 2002 20:45:42

1 The full list of creditors, their class and the amounts each creditor has lodged proofs in the Administration;

2 The reports by the Administrator to creditors.

It is impossible for anything meaningful to be decided at the next community meeting if we are not given the information that would enable us to formulate proposals based upon the likely outcome of creditor meetings.

I was going to propose that this information be provided to members as a resolution at last Saturdays meeting but that meeting was closed before I could move the resolution. This information is not confidential but is a matter of public record. In particular the list of creditors, their class and the amounts of their debt is information usually supplied by Boards to the Administrator and should be within the Board’s own knowledge. It is time the members knew precisely the amount owed to secured, preferred and unsecured creditors.
Gerard Gooden - Tue 27 Aug 2002 00:08:43

Without a list of creditors it is very difficult to make any sensible analysis of the proposal. I heard Jennifer Wilson say that total liabilities exceeded $900,000.00. It would appear that this total increases by approx $150,000.00 if Mardi Gras and Sleaze are not held in 1993. I do not know what the consequence will be to the total amount of the liabilities if Sleaze is not held this year. This figure for total liabilities appears to be very elastic.

The Deed proposes that $250,000.00 will be paid to the Deed Administrator within 14 days of approval of the Deed by creditors. A total of $480,000.00 is to be paid over 3 years out of future profits.

I suggest that when creditors are given this proposal they will ignore the payment of future profits and will only take into account the immediate cash in hand. In effect they are being asked to accept an up front settlement of 27 cents in the dollar. I do not believe that creditors will accept the proposition that based upon future profits the proposal represents 50c in the dollar or the 100c in the dollar that is referred to in the proposal. Given the company’s past performance creditors are entitled to be cynical about the possibility of future profits.

At the meeting last Saturday I pointed out that a good rule of thumb for ensuring creditor approval to a scheme is to offer at least 33c in the dollar as this would be the immediate return corporate creditors would receive if they obtained a tax write off for their debt. This write off would be available if the company went into liquidation. It is not immediately available if the creditors accept a scheme.

Pursuant to the proposal in return for $250,000.00 the creditors sell to XYZ Ltd the undertakings of SGLMG.

The question that creditors will ask is what happens if XYZ Ltd fails to pay the first installment of $25,000.00 or the other installments set out in paragraph (iv) of the offer document? XYZ Ltd appears to be a stand alone company. What I mean by this expression is that the creditors would have to commence legal proceedings all over again against XYZ Ltd to get paid if there was default in respect to future payments.To stave off litigation XYZ Ltd might appoint an Administrator and the whole process would be repeated.

The proposal does not contemplate that XYZ Ltd will secure its obligation to make future payments by granting the Administrator security. If the scheme only involved the existing company (ie SGLMG ) then the Deed could provide for the automatic liquidation of the company by the Deed Administrator if default was made in respect of future payments but such a provision is not possible in respect to XYZ Ltd. Given that the proposal is really only an offer of 27c in the dollar I doubt that it will be accepted by creditors.
Gerard Gooden - Tue 27 Aug 2002 01:34:24

Apart from the fact that both organisations suffered financially this year, it is a very long bow to draw to link the two.

London MG has had a purely commercial (ie profit making) model since its inception just three years ago. This has seen their event suffer from a pretty low level of community loyalty towards both the event and the organisers.

This was especially so this year as London Mardi Gras was held in a park very far from the centre of London, where punters had to walk several MILES from the nearest Tube stop to the park where the events were held.

Corporate advertising was everywhere (complaints galore about this in (UK) Pink Paper and Gay Times).

The London event was also ambushed by another purely commercial event (Purple in the Park) run by straight promoters, in a better location, the month before.

Sorry Rodney, but while such an obvious link was obviously appealing to you in pushing your 'non-Sydney-centric' views in your article, the problems experienced in Sydney seem, in reality, to be due to quite different factors than the specific set of circumstances that occurred in London this year.

Rodney Croome in Saturday's Age then goes on to suggest Sydney Mardi Gras' problems can be linked to increased tolerance for gays and lesbians in regional and rural Australia: "...if there is any one cause for this change it is growing tolerance of sexual diversity in suburban, regional and rural areas. Opinion polls in these areas show a rise in support for lesbian and gay rights to levels sometimes rivalling inner cities...Gays and lesbians who may once have moved to Sydney in search of an inherently unstable mix of anonymity and acceptance no longer feel compelled to flee small communities."

Pardon?

I'm sorry Rodney, but I would have to say that, yes, you may be right that it is getting slowly better in country areas for gay people, but my boyfriend and I would (still) not dream of holding hands in Northern NSW where my hometown is - or of sneaking a kiss in the local pub: we would not make it out alive. To be openly gay and honestly sexual, I still had to flee to Sydney.

I guess I can admire your wanting this supposed increased tolerance in the bush to be the cause for MG's problems (because I also wish that acceptance of gays and lesbians in the bush really WAS already a reality in 2002) but I think that to suggest, as you did, that an (alleged) increased mainstream community acceptance of gays and lesbians in country areas is the cause of Mardi Gras' woes is way out of touch with what actually has been happening in Sydney.
Life in a northern town - Tue 27 Aug 2002 08:11:22

Debts condemn Mardi Gras officials
By Luke McIlveen
August 27, 2002
THE organisers of the broke Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras could be personally liable for almost $700,000 in debts after a voluntary administrator found the once-thriving festival had been trading while insolvent.

The report - by voluntary administrator Scott Pascoe, from Sydney firm Sims Lockwood - found that liquidators would have reasonable grounds for pursuing the SGLMG board because it had been trading while insolvent since the March 2002 festival.

In estimating the festival's current cash position, Mr Pascoe found the board had racked up debts of $689,805 until Mardi Gras was placed into voluntary administration in July. Mr Pascoe estimated the total assets at just $309,842.

"It is my opinion that a liquidator would have reasonable prospects in establishing that the company was insolvent from approximately mid-March 2002, shortly after the completion of the festival period, when it was known that Mardi Gras had failed to achieve its forecasted revenue targets," Mr Pascoe wrote.

If liquidators can prove that Mardi Gras organisers knowingly traded while insolvent, the board of directors could be forced to reimburse the amount lost during the period of insolvency under section 588M of the Corporations Law.

Giving reasons for his assessment that the law was deliberately breached, Mr Pascoe said the company would have been aware that a projected loss of $200,000 in December 2001 had blown out to $500,000 by March. He also found the Mardi Gras had "a significant working capital deficiency".

The financial woes of the 25-year-old event, which boasts one of the world's biggest gay and lesbian marches, came to light in July when Mardi Gras president Julie Regan asked the gay community to cover debts of more than $500,000.

A mystery donor agreed to stump up $400,000 but almost immediately withdrew the offer for legal reasons, leaving the organisers no option but to appoint voluntary administrators. The NSW Government refused pleas from the organisers for a taxpayer-funded rescue package.

A meeting between the Sydney gay community and administrators last Saturday flagged the possibility of a 2003 festival run by a conglomerate of community groups.

The street parade - if not the hugely unprofitable arts festival of previous years - is likely to go ahead with the support of sympathetic groups.

Mr Pascoe said a typical defence to insolvent trading would be to argue that the directors had a reasonable belief the company would remain solvent even if it incurred further debts.

But that defence was unlikely to be submitted by Mardi Gras, given the board continually sought new funding until the appointment of administrators.

"Having reviewed the correspondence in relation to the proposed lender I do not consider that this would constitute a defence to any insolvent trading action," Mr Pascoe wrote.
- Tue 27 Aug 2002 08:19:11

If the board received advice from the auditors that the company was not insolvent then the Board has a full defence to any action for insolvent trading.

If Mr Pascoe is so certain that the Board was trading insolvent then some of the creditors should ask the Administrator at the next creditors meeting whether he will undertake action against the Board out of his own funds if the company is placed in liquidation. I bet he will avoid answering that question by saying he will have to look at the situation when he is appointed liquidator. Or he will probably say that creditors can bring their own action against the Board if they wish.

The fact of the matter is that these statements are often made by Administrators but rarely acted upon. These statements may impress some creditors who may think that the Administrator has actually carried out some investigation justifying his extortionate fees. Those creditors in the know, however, usually discount the Administrators views. Why ?

Any action against the Board will be a long and arduous process that may require directors being examined ( like the Board of One Tel) and then expensive legal proceedings may follow. In the case of the Board of Mardi Gras the question is how much is at stake. What debts were incurred during the period of insolvent trading: $100,000.00? $200,000 ? The cost of the legal proceedings will probably be of this order and the creditors will be asked to fund the proceedings with no guarantee that they will succeed. The Board members will probably seek an order that their costs be secured by the Liquidator so that the creditors will not only have to cover the Liquidators legal costs but also put up security for the Board’s fees.

Mr Pascoe’s comments may make good copy in the Australian and brought him 15 minutes of fame but they will not impress hard nosed creditors in the know.
cynical lawyer - Tue 27 Aug 2002 10:19:53

NEWSFLASH

8:30pm Monday 26 August 2002:
The Board of Directors tonight gave the final go ahead for PRIDE to stage the Sleaze Ball 2002 "In Uniform"
More details soon.

Woo Hoooooo !

Now what to wear? God it is only a few short weeks!, and my dealer is on holidays! and what about recoveries? ohmygodwhatshallwedo!!!
See you under the mirror ball ! - Tue 27 Aug 2002 12:41:11

As for the suggestion that "all it takes is a few before the rest go along", we wouldn?t stop going to Arq if it held an official recovery, etc - if my mother could scour Canberra looking for alternate brands of dry ginger ale for years despite her fondness for brandy and drys (I forgot to tell her the boycott was over - whoops!) and go without if she couldn?t find any, then we can live without Arq (or whoever) for some time if need be.
Kathy Sant - Tue 27 Aug 2002 12:51:50

Can I also add that I believe Mr Pascoe would be required, by his own professional bodies and standards, to err on the side of caution. He is a member of the Insolvency Practioners Assn and I am sure he can spot an insolvent trading company from a long way off - and we must trust his apparent expertise. BUT it all comes dowm to bean-counter v.s. bean-counter when you get to the nitty gritty detail, technicalities rule, law is interpreted and you can prove many different versions of the truth, in hindsight especially. At the end of the day those with the deepest pockets win.

The important thing highlighted by all this is that we learn from it. What ever organisation moves forward must have in place the checks and balances to prevent this ever happening again. To ensure this, it would seem most appropriate that the long term plan be to place the Mardi Gras Trade Marks and events in to some sort of community trust that secures them forever from incompetant event managers, and commercial interests.

Does anyone have confirmation of the time and place for the final creditors meeting?

And does anyone have a soft copy of the Administrators report to send to Panther to post here?
cynical member - Tue 27 Aug 2002 12:58:58

One wonders what is the implication of the footer info on the word document. I would suggest that we may have an indication there of a brand new sponsor that has the very deep pockets and has been in a little trouble of its own recently.

Hmmm ... it may also explain the frustration that previous poster outlined in the post from Upset Creditor - Mon 26 Aug 2002 14:35:49.

Curiouser and curiouser huh!
Acrobat is always preferable for web publishing! - Tue 27 Aug 2002 13:10:29

Tasmania: Australia’s Harassment Hotspot
A survey carried out by the Tasmanian Council on AIDS, Hepatitis and Related Diseases has revealed that lesbians and gay men in Tasmania suffer more physical and verbal harassment than anywhere else in Australia.

The survey carried out in May this year revealed that 44% of gay and lesbian Tasmanians had been harassed the previous 12 months. Rodney Croome of the Tasmanian Gay and Lesbian Rights Group said ‘a swathe of surveys since the mid-1990s have shown the same result - almost half of gay and lesbian Tasmanians experience hate-related harassment every year, over twice as high as NSW and Victoria.’
- Tue 27 Aug 2002 13:45:22

If not, then remember this is also a chance for Pride to help Mardi Gras to reduce the o/s debts, pay some creditors (staff first!), keep some face and wind it all down gracefully without the liquidators rushing in.

Which will it be ??
2 4 me please! - Tue 27 Aug 2002 15:25:30

I have a couple of questions:
1) What role does the SGLMG board have in XYZ? I notice on the summary handed out by Pride that it mentions that 2 SGLMG people would be on the board of PALQ/XYZ. Whose idea was that? Haven't we seen enough of them? And who would choose them given that members have no rights anymore? Come to think of it who would choose the PALQ people. How will PALQXYZ be accountable to the community?Maybe it should be called PALQXYZSGLMG (what kind of an acronym is that!?)

2) How can the current board dictate to the PALQ/XYZ board how it runs its affairs for the next three years ie how much profit it makes etc?

2) I would have thought that all previous cash flow predictions were pretty flawed so what makes them think that these ones are accurate? And these predictions are being made by the same people that told us they weren't trading insolvent?
palqxyzblahblahblah - Tue 27 Aug 2002 15:35:23

Dont you believe it !!.....the footer reads:
C:\Documents and Settings\jwilson\My Documents\Private\Mardi Gras\New MG\Deed of CA (Vodafone) #1.doc.

This bears no relevance to settings on my PC!

You can also open it in word and check the document properties and the autotext inserts (such as last saved by) as this provides some valuable insight in to the documents history.

This is standard stuff if you want to know more about a word document and is why it is often not good to disseminate them as they give more information that you necessarily want people to know.
Transparency rules! - Tue 27 Aug 2002 15:42:34

I've noticed one of the parties is called Meltdown.

Not a bad theme for Sleaze Ball ........
- Tue 27 Aug 2002 15:44:21

The meeting for the creditors is on Thursday at 11:00 at the Corus Hotel 7-9 York street and to my knowledge the Administrators have not provided a list of Creditors who have returned Proxy's to anyone, including the BOD.

How the debt of 400K went to 900K includes future contracts on contractors, rents, leases, royalities for MGM, rates, insurances due in June and July, Annual report printing and audit for the annual report, plus some misc other future debts
- Tue 27 Aug 2002 17:01:54
Pinkboard is unable to verify this statement.

"Some people may have seen comment in today's Sydney Star Observer in which BGF is named as a partner in a proposed coalition of community organisations to form a new company and run a 'back to basics' Mardi Gras. BGF is not a partner in such a 'coalition'. BGF has been involved in discussions with ACON, Queer Screen, PRIDE and the Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby but the reported commitment of BGF to this proposal was premature and doesn't accurately represent the position of the BGF Board.

The BGF Board recognises the importance of Mardi Gras as a community event. We also value the fundraising opportunities that the Mardi Gras festival and Parade offer to BGF. However, in accordance with the constitution and mission of BGF our primary responsibility is as custodians of our donor's money to provide services to men, women and children in NSW who are disadvantaged because of HIVIAIDS. We rely on public and private donations to carry out this work and we expend our resources strictly in line with our core business and the wishes of our stakeholders.

The Mardi Gras proposal was discussed at the BGF Board meeting on Monday 19th August and was given serious and in-depth consideration."

Signed by Peter Brennan, President of BGF
- Tue 27 Aug 2002 17:03:32

Every day that we squall like pampered little snots over the loss of a parade and a party, we denigrate our history and hobble our future. Without a board to beat up on every time we don't like what's being served up, we now have to define and discover who we are, where we're at and where we want to go in the new millenium. And this is fantastic!

Eyes off your navels now, it's time for the next evolution!!!
Ally - Tue 27 Aug 2002 20:32:06

And let's not forget that ACON posted a $300,000 defecit a couple of years back. With the next year, them coming back to a big fat surplus - so how much of 'nothing' did they do that same year to get to a fat surplus. Did f...k all.
sally - Tue 27 Aug 2002 20:39:50
Pinkboard is unable to verify this statement.

i can not believe we are actually attacks the orgs that tried to help. what are you people like? did you also not listen or read the proposal? the pride clearly said that it was only an interim measure. this was reflected in the document.
wake up - Tue 27 Aug 2002 21:31:42

why are they part of this?
what are ACON doing? - Wed 28 Aug 2002 08:19:36

Some activities you might like to consider: Parade, Parties, Launch, Fair Day, Festival (theatre, art, QueerScreen, community events), fund raising opportunities, employment, workshop.
Arti - Wed 28 Aug 2002 09:41:50

As a result, the Board met with the Administrators last night and we have formally withdrawn the proposed Deed. We have indicated that we will be requesting an adjournment for 30 days. If this is not accepted by the meeting, SGLMG will be put into liquidation and put up for sale. The Administrators have indicated their intention to prepare sale documents even in the event that the adjournment is approved by the Creditors.

on behalf of the Board
Jennifer Wilson - Wed 28 Aug 2002 10:01:58

As a result, the Board met with the Administrators last night and we have formally withdrawn the proposed Deed. We have indicated that we will be requesting an adjournment for 30 days. If this is not accepted by the meeting, SGLMG will be put into liquidation and put up for sale. The Administrators have indicated their intention to prepare sale documents even in the event that the adjournment is approved by the Creditors.

on behalf of the Board
Jennifer Wilson - Wed 28 Aug 2002 10:02:39

I want to be able to march up the street in March and I certainly will be willing to volunteer time/money to make sure that happens.
- Wed 28 Aug 2002 10:30:45

What do other think about TB's suggestion?
United We Stand - Wed 28 Aug 2002 11:16:05

Big words, big money, big egos - no idea. I've heard it all from the Jennifer Wilsons (super sponsors, world wide events, 'bond issues'). What I haven't seen is the smallest recognition that we've taken at least half a million dollars OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY and squandered it.

Recognise the 'community' is about people, trust, and respect. It's not about pretending to be 'corporate'.

I suspect it's too late - what good people there were haven't lasted this far, they grew up and moved on...
- Wed 28 Aug 2002 11:36:45

1. Should the community, in some form, bid for SGMLG if and when the sale goes ahead?

2. If the answer to the above question is "yes" who or what will bid on behalf of the community?

Other issues, such as what would happen if the community does not buy SGMLG, or how the new community owner would be organised or structured are, at this time, secondary.
- Wed 28 Aug 2002 11:52:46

Remembering the ATO is always a first line creditor, a ticket purchaser is the last.

Wouldn't want anyone to be caught out by previous comments,
dave, newtown - Wed 28 Aug 2002 12:55:30

Following a meeting today (Thursday 23/08/02) with company creditors to discuss the future of London Mardi gras an overwhelming majority of those in attendance, and those who voted by proxy, agreed to accept the offered Company Voluntary Arrangement. This signals a clear mandate for the company to continue in operation. Under the CVA creditors will be paid an agreed amount immediately with the remainder being paid next year.

The board and production team will now start to draw up plans for Mardi Gras 2003, the 5th annual LGBT festivalo created and produced by the company. Initial concepts will be discussed and agreed at a future shareholders meeting scheduled for late September. It was made clear by Chairman John Miskelly that Mardi Gras would continue its policy of full consultation with the community before finalising plans for next year's festival.

"One of the clear messages we are already receiving is that members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community did not feel close enough to the Mardi Gras production process. We understand this and will be holding full, comprehensive and frank discussions with as many people as possible over the coming weeks to ensure that the festival represents all parties needs", said chairman John Miskelly today.

The Mardi Gras board remain committed to the growth of the Pride Parade, which will again be held on the same day as the festival."
http://www.londonmardigras.com/ - Wed 28 Aug 2002 16:09:11

Something else to consider for Saturday: if mardi gras does go into liquidation (which now appears likely) what assets of mardi gras should the new organisation buy? Are we as a community deeply attached to the name mardi gras? (I know you can't trade mark that name, but if you don't own the trade mark then the use of that name with events that "look like" the old mardi gras could expose you to a passing off action by whoever ends up being the owner). What sort of legitimacy goes with the name mardi gras? If we don't have that name, will overseas visitors be interested in coming? Do we want to have the continuinty associated with mardi gras (it would be hard to have a 25 year anniversary if in fact we call it something different). I have no idea what the answer is to this (I seem to change my mind everyday as to what I think!!).

I also support the coalition of community organisations. As I understand their proposal, they are only stepping in as an interim measure and once a new organisation is up and running they are want to step out of it (after all, they all have plenty of other work to keep them busy!!). We all know (or should know) that thousands of man/woman hours go into making mardi gras happen - it's bloody hard work. And some organisation of people needs to co-ordinate this - a committee of several hundred people CAN'T make decisions. These community organisations have elected boards so they are, at least to a certain extent, "democratically" selected.
Someone who wants to march next year! - Wed 28 Aug 2002 17:49:42

To prevent the new organisation going down the same path over and over again, (which is what happened in London during the 90s which had a succession of failed gay and lesbian groups), we have to have an impartial investigation into how SGLMG failed.
An autopsy will also help hose down, maybe even forestall, the public relations diasaster the folding of SGLGM is going to be... both nationally and internationally.

On an up note.. handled properly the creation of a brand spanking :) new organisation could be a blessing in disguise. Bringing together the talents and abilities of our organisations and individuals. Kicked off by the Gay Games, this could be a renaissance for Sydneys queer community, both politically and creatively. :) !!

Gareth
queerwarrior@hotmail.com
Gareth - Wed 28 Aug 2002 19:25:28

This doesn't stop the community - in some form - putting in a bid for Mardi Gras. The issue however is how much the community (and it could be a consortia of organisations, a group of individuals or an institution acting on behalf of the community) is able to and prepared to bid. My view is that a "community" bid should be made, if only so that a commercial operator is not able to buy it by default. How silly would any boycott against a commercial purchaser look if we made not attempt to buy what really belongs to us?
- Wed 28 Aug 2002 19:48:15

"We struggle to find anything new to say to the world about being gay"
"We rode on the wave of 80s and 90s dance party popularity"
"retiring off the celebrations due to staleness or satiety"
"parade lost it's cultural/artistic relevance"

the following thoughts:

How about diversifying this baby. Why have these calendar-based yearly repeats per se. In my opinion only Fair Day,maybe Launch, and a dance event at Fox Showgrounds are standing the test of time.

Consider, as an alternative to a Parade in '03 : a main stage on Driver Ave with speakers and performances. Have community & political stalls and stage performances during Saturday day-time for free in Moore Park; at 6pm clear the stalls and charge $10 for night-time entry for more performances and socializing. Link up with Sth Sy Council for workshops to build props etc. Ask Fowler to landscape Moore Park for the occasion,and fence it for our open-air do. Have an outdoor coffee and drinks bar,if not using Fox' facilities. Or make a bar along the Anzac Parade fence. Let BGF do paid special seating as per usual. Have a techno-tent for those who peak early, a woman's corner?, a leather-marquee?,a MAGS tables and chairs coffeestall? Help-yourself foldup stools? After 11 open up Fox for further festivities [costume parade??],allowing curious non-payers a peak, and close it down at 4am. Let a dance-party in the Hordern,RHI[and Dome?] be organized by dance-party savvies, and charge the usual living daylights for entry :-), but keep entry to the dance-halls somehow seperate from the other proceedings, yet allowing for mingling. Then change the formula again in '04 to keep the variety.
TB - Thu 29 Aug 2002 08:43:11

The SSO is a pty limited company (ie private company). This means that there's nothing to stop the directors distributing profits to shareholders. 'Membership' is also limited to a couple of hundred shareholders who 'know what's best' for 'the community'.

Sound familiar? That's because the old guard SSO shareholders include people like the Mayor of South Sydney - who wants to 'hold Mardi Gras on trust for the community'.

Next thing they'll be appointing themselves Directors of Homeland Security...

As an intelligent, honest and educated member of the community, I don't need to be told what's good for me. What I do need is a structure of community decision making that's accountable, transparent, democratic and inclusive.

I can only guess at the motives behind the herculean attempts by Jennifer Wilson et al to centralise decision making and define community with reference to EXCLUSION.

I wasn't going to go on Saturday, but I think I just talked myself into it.
Upanishad - Thu 29 Aug 2002 13:45:19
This is the opinion of the poster.

You can confirm for yourself in this week's SSO it has contributed space to the ad for the meeting.

It is also a creditor (I don't know for how much but would guess it's substanstial) and I imagine is actually feeling the pinch. I don't always agree with the SSO's approach to things but I think there must be something more constructive we can do than ripping into community organisations then when we get sick of that start turning on creditors one at a time.
- Thu 29 Aug 2002 15:06:00

Mardi Gras had an exceptional base of Parade knowledge from Kathy Pavlich & Mark Barraket leading a talented and professional Committee, through to the many thousands of dedicated volunteers, whether on the floats or on the street, keeping it all safe and operational for us.

The Committee members have, at least, has been in email communication with each other, over the last few weeks, and are very committed to working towards the 25th Parade with whatever new master has the financial responsibility in 2003. It will only take a bit of serious organisation to get the volunteers up and running (once the Gay Games are over, of course). The entrants will be there, the audience will be there, and we will all be there.

This is not about politics, this is not about huge amounts of money (the Parade cost around the $200k mark this year), and this is about our queer community and us. Call it “Mardi Gras”, call it “Pride March”, call it what you wish – it only has the vibe if put on by our community.

I am aware of the immense effort put in by the remaining members of the ‘Board’, Kelly and the staff etc. to save Mardi Gras. Thank you for trying.

I also acknowledge the incredible solidarity of the ‘older’ guard last Saturday and especially Richard’s comments (declaration) that we will march up Oxford Street on the first Saturday of March 2003 no matter what!

Let us, on Saturday, at the MCC, decide on the new mother organisation for the Parade (at the very least) and get started on the basic preparations. We have the Games to support as well, so we can’t dither any longer.
Damon Hartley - Thu 29 Aug 2002 16:12:50

Comments like this demonstrate such a high degree of
ignorance about community history and also a total
misunderstanding of the cuurent situation (even who's
on which side - this week).

They do a serious disservice to their inclusive position.
I hope this isn't being posted by one of my friends.

The SSO may be a private company. Private companies may
also be set up as "not for profit" companies which makes
it impossible to distrubute profits (as was SGLMG).
I have never heard of SSO distrubting profits and I would suspect it is
set up as a not for profit company. Regardless, when it was
taken over, it was either that or nothing.

I understand that shares it the SSO are from time to time
available. I did ask at one time and I probably wasn't encouraged
as much as I should have been. I beleive that no individual may own
more than one share.

I imagine those that actually know think the posters wild
speculations are a waste of time.

(Not to mention the other paper.)
- Thu 29 Aug 2002 16:39:19

Mardi Gras struggles with $500,000 debt
The Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras has been instructed to sell its costumes, props and other assets in a bid to recover the $500,000 the organisation owes to creditors.

[FULL STORY]
http://abc.net.au/news/justin/nat/newsnat-29aug2002-71.htm
- Thu 29 Aug 2002 17:50:15

Does anybody know what the 'other assets' include? In the proposed Deed of Company Arrangement of 27 August 2002 (now lapsed) 'XYZ Limited' (now also presumably dead and buried) proposed to 'purchase the business as a going concern for a total sum of $300,000' with the sale price including approximately $200,000 for plant and equipment and 'theatrical supplies'. Also included were the 'Trade Mark for Mardi Gras and Sleaze' for $75,000 and 'the right to register the business name 'Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras' for $20,000.

Do the 'other assets' therefore include Mardi Gras' intellectual property, including the trade mark (presumably also the logo) and the company name? Do they include the membership database?

Will there be anything left for us to discuss on Saturday?

We appear to have avoided the 'Vodaphone Mardi Gras' (Vodaphone insist on naming rights in their sponsorhip arrangements - hence the 'Vodaphone Wallabies' who, ironically, will play their rugby union tests in the Telstra Stadium at Homebush). Will we yet see the possibility of the 'Murdoch Mardi Gras'? Rupert and Lachlan didn't read the rugby league community with the Superleague debacle and the ousting of South Sydney from the NRL competition. Would they show any more understanding and sympathy for the QTBILG ownership of Mardi Gras?

Murray McLachlan

Murray McLachlan
- Thu 29 Aug 2002 20:00:19

Yes a 30 day extention has been granted, that is to form a new company not save the old. For the Mardi Gras that has been around for the last 24 years its a sad day.....
last staff member out the door - Thu 29 Aug 2002 22:01:54

Yet we have the ABC news story that Mardi Gras has been instructed to sell its costumes, props and other assets - presumably the contents of Fortress Erskineville. Is it proposed that these assets be sold prior to 30 September? If so, why? Are they being sold to cover the rent on Fortress Erskineville? Or to pay the administrator's fees? For that matter how much is the administrator being paid to conduct the administration?

Could someone in the know please clarify?
- Thu 29 Aug 2002 22:15:45

1. When and where the sale will be advertised - will it be advertised in the gay and lesbian press for example?

2. When the period for submitting tenders will close.

3. If there is to be a public auction of the contents of Fortress Erskineville when and where it will be advertised - will it be advertised in the gay and lesbian press for example?

4. Whether tender bids will be competing with any scheme or offer put forward by the MGL board.

5. Alternatively, whether tender bids will only be considered in the event that the creditors reject any scheme or offer put forward by the MGL board.

6. What information the administrator proposes to give to potential purchasers about MGL's intangible assets and possible community attitudes and responses to the purchase of those assets.

It would be helpful if the administrator or his representative was present at the meeting on Saturday to answer these questions.
- Fri 30 Aug 2002 08:25:32

At the end of the 30 days, the Administrators will presumable (hopefully) have both a proposed Deed of Company Arrangement and will also have determined (in conjunction with the Creditors Committee) which is the best offer for the assets (in toto) of Mardi Gras and will present their recommendations to the meeting.

While theoretically (and legally) the decision (and thus the sale) can be made by the Administrator alone, he has indicated his willingness to be guided by the Creditors Committee (and possibly even the Creditors) in allowing them to effectively 'chose' which alternative they like best.

Far from making Saturday irrelevant - it makes it more important than ever. The community has two options, two chances to secure the assets of Mardi Gras (which include the name, trademarks, costumes, computers, archival video etc). Do we want to and how can we do this?

on behalf of the Board
Jennifer Wilson - Fri 30 Aug 2002 08:41:28

1978 - First Mardi Gras organised by an ad hoc group working within the International Gay Solidarity Day Collective.

1979 - Second Mardi Gras organised by the Task Group of Gay Solidarity Group.

1980 - Third Mardi Gras organised by the Mardi Gras Task Group, which by then was more or less independent of Gay Solidarity Group. The Task Group organised the first post-parade party held at Paddington Town Hall.

1981 - Fourth Mardi Gras organised by a committee/collective that emerged following the three community meetings which led to Mardi Gras being moved to the end of summer.

1982/1983 - Fifth and sixth Mardi Gras organised by a committee led by the late Brian McGahen.

In 1982 the first post-parade showgrounds party was organised by Barry Cecchinni (who held the party licence) and other venue owners. Following that party, the Mardi Gras Committee decided to organise the party and effectively hold the licence.

May 1983 - Sydney Gay Mardi Gras Association formed with formal constitution and membership to organise Mardi Gras in future. First AGM resolves to appoint all persons nominating for the committee to the committee. Committee organises 1984 Mardi Gras.

1984 AGM - Committee with a fixed size established. First contested committee elections. Lance Gowland, who was the primary organiser of the first Mardi Gras (he drove the lead truck among other things) failed to get elected to the committee. This committee decides, inter alia, to organise a festival in the lead up to the Mardi Gras Parade and Party. (A festival entitled "Our Lives Our Selves was held in association with the 1983 Mardi Gras but was organised by a group independent of the Mardi Gras Committee.)

1985, 1986 Mardi Gras - organised by a committee elected by the members of Sydney Gay Mardi Gras Association. Committee structure formally established in this period.

1986 - Sydney Gay Mardi Gras Association becomes incorporated under the NSW Incorporated Associations Act.

1987, 1988 Mardi Gras organised by a committee elected by the members of Sydney Gay Mardi Gras Association Inc.

December 1988 - Members of Sydney Gay Mardi Gras Association Inc vote to change the name to Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Association Inc.

1989, 1990 Mardi Gras organised by a committee elected by the members of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Association Inc.

March/April 1990 - Members of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Association Inc vote to incorporate ie transform the incorporated association into a company with limited liability, but with members rather than shareholders. Those persons who were committee members of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Association Inc at the time of the change became the first board of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Limited.

Essentially MGL has evolved from the ad hoc group that organised the first Mardi Gras in 1978. Continuity of collective/task group/committee/board membership may be traced from that first ad hoc group - ie every organising group (whatever it was called) included some persons who had been part of or members of the organising group for the previous year's Mardi Gras.

The consequence of
Larry Galbraith - Fri 30 Aug 2002 09:26:27

We had a fabulous meeting on Saturday - why not let a group of 500 people make ALL the decisions? We don't trust the Board, so let's have the true community making the call.

If we met every week at an agreed time, then whomever was interested could be there and they would decide what was necessary. This sounds like true democracy - the masses are actually the decision-makers! This way, nobody is excluded, the community truly controls Mardi Gras and we cannot complain about not knowing what is going on.

How do people feel about this? Larry Galbraith can take minutes (being a keen historian) and Peter Grogan can chair (given that he seems happy to call public meetinsg and not attend them - maybe this would improve his record!)
Let the Community in! - Fri 30 Aug 2002 11:11:20

Pride is keeping half the profits and if it is saying profits will go to set up a trust for staff etc, it is this money they are referring to. So as long as Pride is as good as its word, half will go to the creditors and half directly to a fund for staff and perhaps needy community organisations that are in trouble due to the Mardi Gras collapse.
- Fri 30 Aug 2002 14:26:40
This is the opinion of the poster.

If no sponsor is found, can a group of community organisations afford to buy out MG assets? Would it be possible to scrape enough together to buy just the "Trading Name"? Or will the assets only be available as a package deal?

I'm hoping this saturday's meeting will focus on the future and the steps we can take to get to the next generation of GLBT community organisation. I'm absolutely sure there will be a parade next year in some shape or form. I'm also hoping that it is a community event and not a corporate one.
Evil Twin - Fri 30 Aug 2002 15:14:20

I hope to see more young people there, it is their turn to shape the next 25 years.
- Fri 30 Aug 2002 21:29:17

Administrator fees current billing is at 66K Approx cost to keep the office for 30 days is 30K and your correct. Liquidation is going forward will take approx 3 weeks and the extention is 30 days so in essence if they wait until the 4th week they could be buying a MG with nothing in it. But than the money from the sale would go against debt and the selling price on the Name Rights would be less. In Theory.
- Fri 30 Aug 2002 08:25:03
This is the opinion of the poster
- Sat 31 Aug 2002 09:01:45

PINK BAN RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION 1

That as many signatories as is efficacious and practicable be obtained for the following declaration:-

1. We, the undersigned, hereby declare that the intrinsic value of Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd is a direct result of the energy, time, creativity, effort and financial, emotional and other support contributed by members and supporters of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community over the past 25 years.

2. We further declare that these members and supporters made this contribution in the belief that they were contributing to the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community and not to the generation of private profit.

3. And we further declare that at all times we believe that the social and cultural capital created by this contribution was held in trust on behalf of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community by Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd.

4. Similarly, we declare that the real owners of the intellectual property and associated intangible assets of Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd is the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, and that Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd merely held these assets in trust on behalf of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community by Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd.

5. Accordingly we assert that any disposal of these assets should only occur with the consent of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community; and

6. In the event that the assets of Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd are purchased by an entity:-

(i) for the purposes of exploiting those assets for commercial gain; or

(ii) other than the entity endorsed by members and supporters of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community by way of resolution at a public meeting of this community

(a) we hereby declare that we will not participate in, assist with, or in any way support any activities, events or any other thing which in any way involves or relates to the exploitation of such assets.

(b) we call upon all members and supporters of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community to boycott any activities, events, products or services which in any way involve or relate to the exploitation of such assets.

RESOLUTION 2

That a copy of this declaration, together with its signatories and their specific association with Mardi Gras (eg volunteer, parade participant, artist, performer, DJ, lighting designer, community organisation representative etc):
...PTO

1. be provided to the administrator of Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Ltd as soon as is efficacious and practicable to do so; and

2. be published in the Sydney Star Observer no later than Thursday, 26 September, 2002.

RESOLUTION 3

That a copy of this declaration, together with relevant information, be provided to the world, and specifically to:

(a) the domestic and international lesbian and gay media;

(b) all Australian media outlets;

(c) all businesses, both domestic and international, which are involved in the marketing, promotion and provision of travel, accommodation, entertainment and other goods and services associated with Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras;

(d) all government, semi-government and quasi-government agencies which with which Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Limited has, or has had a relationship;

(e) as far as is practicable, all organisations and individuals who have publicly or materially assisted or supported Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras

together with a request that they do not participate in, assist with, or in any way support any activities, events or any other thing which in any way involves or relates to the exploitation of the assets of Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Limited:

(f) for commercial gain; or

(g) by an entity which does not have the endorsement of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community expressed by way of resolution at a public meeting of the Sydney gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.
Larry Galbraith - Sat 31 Aug 2002 12:16:33

As we continue to discuss and debate these issues, it will be important to provide other types forums which are more conducive to young people and others who don't like speaking at public meetings. The open space forum held at Mardi Gras in June could be one such model. This forum is another - particularly if PALQ and whatever replaces it are encouraged to take notice of it. Perhaps an internet chat room could be another. Perhaps young people themselves need to suggest the kinds of forums that are best for them.

One thing the QALP formation (or whatever replaces it) might like to consider is alternative types of forums which will give young people and others an opportunity to participate.
- Sat 31 Aug 2002 20:15:03

Peter pointed to two issues: the way the board is elected, and terms of the board. He flagged moving to a preferential system and two-year terms for board members. Other issues should include the composition and size of the board. I would like to offer some preliminary thoughts on each of these. I am not wedded to any of these proposals. I am posting them below in the hope of encouraging discussion and debate.
Larry Galbraith - Sat 31 Aug 2002 23:09:38

One of the suggested shortcomings of the current and previous Mardi Gras boards is that they lacked sufficient people with financial and/or business/commercial expertise and experience. What should we do (if anything) to ensure that future New Mardi Gras Boards have this expertise?

Similarly, what should we do (if anything) to ensure that future New Mardi Gras Boards have relevent Mardi Gras type experience - eg event management, parade organisation, party organisation, workshop etc?

Do we simply rely on those organising tickets for the Board to include this expertise on their tickets? Do we reserve places on the Board for people with this expertise?

Should we ensure that the principal spokesperson for New Mardi Gras - the President - has the direct endorsement of the New Mardi Gras membership? Should we have co-presidents as exists in several other community organisations?

Should the size of the New Mardi Gras Board be smaller - arguably to enable more efficient decision making, or the same size or larger to ensure that the Board is an effective and representative deliberative forum?

The answers to these questions will vary. I would like to suggest a Board comprising the following:

President - elected directly by the membership (or alternatively co-presidents elected directly by the membership).

Secretary - elected either directly by the membership.

Treasurer - elected either directly by the membership.

6 or 8 "general" Board members - elected directly by the membership. Their principal function is to represent the members and in a general sense, the community.

3 board members with financial and/or business/commercial expertise and/or experience elected directly by the membership. This would be reduced to 2 if there were 8 "general" board members. This would be reduced to 2 if there
were 8 "general" board members.

3 members with relevant Mardi Gras related expertise and/or experience. This would be reduced to 2 if there were 8 "general" board members.

Any New Mardi Gras member would be entitled to nominate for these positions, but they would be required to state what expertise/experience they have. This information would be made available to members. Members hopefully would when deciding who to elect.

This would result in a board of 15 (or 16 members if there were to be co-presidents). While this would be too large for some, it would allow the creation of the following:

1. An executive committee of six comprising the President, Secretary, Treasurer (all directly elected) and one board member from each of the board groupings (or alternatively two board members from the "general representatives" and one each from the "expertise" board members).

2. A finance/budget committee of 6 comprising the Treasurer, the directors with financial and/or commercial/business expertise, and the balance from each of the other two groups.
- Sat 31 Aug 2002 23:12:25

The President, Secretary and Treasurer be elected by optional preferential voting (the system used in NSW Legislative Assembly elections).

The "general" board members be elected by a form of proportional representation (PR). There are several different systems and we should choose the best one for us. Essentially a PR system will ensure that candidates and tickets are
elected in direct proportion to their support within the membership. A ticket will only get all its candidates up when it has overwhelming membership support. Generally minority views will be represented on the board.

The "expertise" positions be elected by a multi-preferential voting system. In this system, all successful candidates will be elected with a majority after distribution of preferences. It favours those candidates who group together as a ticket, but also ensures that those persons voting for minoritycandidates can influence the outcome.

Under this proposal at least 7 of the 15 members of the board will be elected with majority support (after the distribution of preferences). The balance would reflect the diversity of the membership.
- Sat 31 Aug 2002 23:13:57

Sevral people have suggested that board terms should be two years ie only half the board would be elected at each annual general meeting. It is argued that this is essential to ensure continuity and stability. I suggest that these claims need further examination. The following should be considered:

1. The majority (and I suspect overwhelming majority) of persons who served on MGL Boards over the past 15 years served at least two terms.

2. My guess (and this needs to be examined) is that many board members serve around three years on the board before giving it away.

2. Only a small minority of MGL Board members who sought re-election after one (or one and a bit) terms were not re-elected. In all cases they were not included on the incumbents ticket. This may have been due to personal differences or it may have reflected a view about their suitability etc as board
members.

3. A small number of board members have only served one term and not sought re-election. In some cases their decision was influenced by views about their suitability etc as board members. In some cases they joined the board to provide
particular expertise or experience. In at least one case a person who had previous served some years as a board member returned to the board for one year.

3. A significant minority of board members have resigned mid-term, and in some cases without serving even half their term.

What does this tell us?

1. Continuity has been successfully guaranteed by board members being willing to serve more than one term, even though that has meant them facing annual elections.

2. Having a two year terms does not guarantee board members will serve out that term. My guess is that having served two years, many board members may not nominate for another two years (which could increase board membership turnover) or if they do, resign mid-way through their second term. This raises the question of filling casual vacancies. There are two alternatives:

(a) The board fills casual vacancies until the next general meeting. The vacancies are then filled by election - which somewhat defeats the aim of two-year terms.

(b) The board fills casual vacancies for the remainder of that term. This preserves two year terms, but it could result in up to half the board holding office for more than 12 months without facing an election.

3. Two year terms means New Mardi Gras may have to put up incompetent, lazy or inappropriate directors for two years rather than one, particularly if they resist internal pressures to resign. How do we get rid of them otherwise? Make
them ambassadors to Mid-summa or Feast in Adelaide?
- Sat 31 Aug 2002 23:16:33

1. Do we keep the existing committees and committee structure specified in the Old Mardi Gras Constitution? Will we need separate Festival and Fair Day Committees for example? What if Fair Day is outsourced to another community organisation as Bruce Pollack suggested today? Should the New Mardi Gras constitution specify any committees? If so, which ones?

2. How should New Mardi Gras committees be appointed? Should volunteers in a particular area be involved in appointing the committee members for their area? Should volunteers directly elect some committee members?

3. Should Board members be members of New Mardi Gras Committees? If so, what is their role - to chair the committee? to provide the liaison between the committee and the board? to effectively run or manage their committee area? to in effect play an operational or executive role? To what extent should the Board members role be specified in the constitution?

2. If Board members are not to chair New Mardi Gras committees, who should? A member of the committee elected by the committee, or a member of the committee appointed by the Board. Should this be specified in the constitution or should the board have some flexibility in making these decisions depending on the circumstances at the time?

3. What mechanisms (if any) do we need to ensure that the governance of New Mardi Gras Board is open, transparent and accountable?

For example, do we specify what information we require the board to provide in the annual report - beyond that which it is legally required to provide?

Do we introduce an audit committee (as suggested by New Magic in 1999) which is external to the Board to ensure greater accountability?

What information do we require the Board to provide to the membership on an ongoing basis?

4. How do we ensure that the relationship between the Board, its members and the community is a two-way inter-active process between AGMS?

5. What do we need to do to ensure that New Mardi Gras members can properly assess/evaluate candidates for the Board prior to the AGM elections?
Larry Galbraith - Sat 31 Aug 2002 23:41:12

c) The casual vacancies are filled by offering the position to the person who just missed out on being elected. If there is no one, then the board fills the casual vacancy.

In other words a list of those who ran in the election is ranked on votes. When someone resigns we have a list to go to and offer a person to join the board. If they say no, the next person on the list is asked. If there is no one left of the list, the board selects the casual vacancy.

We could set the cut off mark at some arbitrary number like 10. This ensures that we do not have people with no support from the community getting onto the board. But if they can get at least 10 members to vote for them then there is an indication of support. (Regarding membership, separate party goers (and other consumers) from voting members)

For those of you who are concerned about there not being a cohesive board created from this and that a Party systems is best. I would suggest that a little more diversity is exactly what is needed.
Community rules for community organisations - Sun 1 Sep 2002 00:43:02

Ticket sales for this Sleaze will not be restricted to old MGL members. Tickets are being sold in line with Pride's policy for its parties. Next year's Mardi Gras party (if there is a Mardi Gras party next year) may be held before a membership-based organisation is established (although the Mardi Gras period might provide an opportunity to sign up members). Thus, New Mardi Gras may have no members. Do we limit ticket sales to old Mardi Gras? What if the old MGL membership lists are no longer available. Do we restrict sales to those who have kept their MGL membership cards? Clearly doing this would be absurd. This means that tickets to the 2003 Mardi Gras party may have to be sold on a similar basis as this year's Sleaze.

By March/April next year we will have held two parties where ticket sales have been "unrestricted". This should provide us with the empirical evidence we need to determine whether the problems that caused the introduction of the ticketing policy back in 1991 still exist. If they don't there may little justification for reinstating the old ticketing policy. Remember, if the old policy is reintroduced, the range of people who may buy tickets may expand to include bisexuals, queers, inter-sex - if New Mardi Gras expands the categories of membership.

Of course, it is possible that next year's Mardi Gras Party, like this year's Sleaze may be smaller than those in previous years. It is also possible that the number of ticket outlets may be smaller and limited to community businesses. This may be a factor in minimising problems. The old problems could return however if the parties get bigger or tickets are sold through a major ticketing agency.

If this happens, the New Mardi Gras board should have flexibility in deciding how to deal with this. It should not be locked into a solution that is now over a decade old. It should be encouraged to consult the membership and the community before making the decision.

One of the shortcomings of the old ticketing policy was that it was introduced without any prior public community consultation. The community debate took place after the policy was set in stone, not before. One of the consequences is that while the community "accepted" it, in the sense that community members went along with it, I don't think the community ever felt it owned the policy. New Mardi Gras gives us the opportunity to avoid such mistakes.

There may be other ways of responding to such problems without necessarily burdening New Mardi Gras with a oversized apathetic membership, or alternatively creating two tiers of membership from the outset. The community should be consulted about what the appropriate response should be.
Larry Galbraith - Sun 1 Sep 2002 12:59:02

This would change membership focus from "I'm a member so I can go to a party" to "I'm a member because I support and want to be a part of a queer community organisation." I'd also suggest that cheap tickets for active volunteers, regardless of membership, be maintained as policy. Do the work, get the reward. I think this is essential to help out the less financially able partygoers.

When the potential membership base is expanded by a more inclusive membership policy, I think New MG would maintain membership numbers.
Evil Twin - Sun 1 Sep 2002 13:53:38

or

leave it to be run by the the 4 or so community groups and charge everyone 5 bucks to get in.................im sure eveyone could afford that
long time member - Sun 1 Sep 2002 16:57:59

btw. how many days left before the old (and dead) MG constitution becomes defunct? Where is countdown boy when you need him!
- Sun 1 Sep 2002 23:08:09

Besides, how many David Johnston's are there compared to the Mohamed Rafmed (not a real name) of this world? This situation would allow those of us with common names to remain uncommitted without having to put anything at risk. It places an unfair burden on those of us who come from the most difficult of circumstances.

Let's go back to the jumping thru hoops idea instead. every member can prove before a representative panel of members whether they are attached and contribute to the community (eg. volunteer work, membership of the Rights Lobby etc).

Or will that option mean that a whole bunch of party boys won't ever be eligible to be members of MG again?
- Mon 2 Sep 2002 09:19:16

As I suggested in an earlier post, it may no longer be necessary to link ticket sales to membership. By March/April next year we will have the evidence from one (and hopefully two) parties to tell us whether an alternative approach - the Pride approach - is effective.

If we need to return to something like the old policy, perhaps it could be done by the board resolving that the parties are for members and friends of Mardi Gras. Individuals wanting to buy tickets would have to register as "friends", possibly on the recommendation of one or two members. It not even be necessary to charge people to become friends. The cost of administering the register could be incorporated in the party ticket price. After all, "Friends" would not be entitled to anything other than the opportunity to purchase tickets, although New Mardi Gras might wish to send them promotional information, offer discounts etc.

Rather than restricting friends by category (the old tick a box method) suggest that members recommending/nominating friends could be required to make a declaration along the following lines:

"I declare that AB (the person being recommended as a friend) is aware, acknowledges and accepts that the Sleaze Ball and Mardi Gras Party is an event for the gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer and intersex communities. I further declare that it is my view that, should AB attend either a Sleaze Ball or Mardi Gras party, AB will not conduct himself/herself in a manner that is homophobic, offensive or disruptive or that in any way adversely impacts upon that party being a gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer and intersex event."

If we wanted to toughen the declaration we could add the following:

"In the event that AB attends a Sleaze Ball or Mardi Gras Party and behaves in a homophobic, offensive or disruptive manner, I shall acknowledge that this is a consequence flowing from my recommending him/her as a friend, and I accept that my membership and right to purchase party tickets may be suspended."

AQ similar sanction could apply to members who buy tickets for people who subsequently disrupt the parties.

The aim of this rider is to encourage members to they take greater responsibility for the people the invite to our parties.
Larry Galbraith - Mon 2 Sep 2002 09:49:00

2)Can someone please explain to me (and I know I'm dumb) what the term intersex refers to. I have friends who are gay,lesbian, queer, bisexual, transgender but I have never met anyone who identified as intersex. Maybe I have and I don't understand the term. So can someone explain to me please?
still a dummy - Mon 2 Sep 2002 10:49:47

There is no such thing as a dumb question.
The ONLY dumb question is one that is never asked.
- Mon 2 Sep 2002 11:51:15

And the ethical considerations are that the babies, ie. the human beings, to whom this gender (and surgery) has been assigned have gotten no choice in the matter. In fact it is often a hidden secret in their family and the child only learns of the intersexed status as an adult. It can be very confusing for intersexed people to not know why they are feeling out of sync during their childhood and teenage years, re: finding their place amongst "boys" and "girls" - and often quite a relief when they find out that they are intersexed! and so there is a reason as to why this has all happened to them.

And intersexed babies are more common than people realise. It's normally kept a secret from all but closest families though.
- Mon 2 Sep 2002 11:56:41

I also agree that the best way forward is to incorporate a new company structure. In the first instance it’s appropriate that the directors of the new entity combine Sponsor (ie guarantors such as community groups and local govt, not ‘marketing sponsors’) and membership representation.

However, we need to recognise that another financial disaster is likely to be the last straw for MG (and others). As it is, a new organisation can anticipate something approaching a ‘crisis in confidence’ amongst the many trade creditors dealt with in the course of day to day business.

At the risk of being boring - Perhaps some serious thought needs to be given to incorporating transparent financial reporting and planning structures in the new constitution. I’d be keen to see a requirement that quarterly financial reports be published on the internet.

At the very least, in the next two years the directors of the new organisation should be required to:

1) formulate a financial plan, including a budget and cash flow for this (and the next) financial year – (in future this should occur 6 months before the FY to which it relates);
2) table that plan at a meeting of Sponsors (comprising the Treasures/CFOs of those Sponsors – Personally, I’d invite a representative of the CFO of South Sydney Council to participate in this);
3) report against budget to that Sponsors meeting on a bi-monthly or quarterly basis;
4) establish a reserve account and an operating account;
5) working capital should be drawn down from the reserve account monthly and (if outside the budgeted amounts) as approved by Sponsors;
6) etc… you get the idea.

This sort of basic financial control is not difficult to run once implemented and provides early warning of financial problems.
Sean Crellin - Mon 2 Sep 2002 12:01:15

For those of you wanting to find out more about Intersex conditions I recommend you check out the Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) Support Group Australia Inc. The following web page provides some links to fact sheets - http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aissg/fact_sheets.htm

One point I just wanted to clear up that someone wrote above. Intersex condition is not always about genitalia, as many Intersex people have sex chromosomes that are not exclusively male or female while having either male or female genitals, for example XXY (Klinefelter Syndrome - 1 in 1000 are born with this condition). Another important stat, about 1 or 2 in 1000 receive surgery to "normalise" genitals.

Intersex is equivalent to bisexuality, but instead of sexuality, it is related to gender. Just as we have the extremes of homosexual and heterosexual with sexuality, with bisexuality taking up the middle ground. We have the extremes of male and female with gender, with intersex taking up the middle ground. Many people say that Intersex is the 3rd gender.

I think it is important that we reach out to Intersex leaders to find out how they feel about being including within Mardi Gras. There have been some issues between Transgender people and Intersex people. The main reasons are as follows
a) Many Transgender activists (not all!) believe in "normalising" to either male or female, where as many Intersex (and Gender Queer Trannies) believe in the creation of a new gender or the breaking down of the gender dichotomy.
b) There is a feeling amongst many Intersex activists that Trannie activists have been taking up to the Intersex banner in an effort to legitimise "brain gender", with out enough concern about Intersex people. This gets a little complicated and I am not aware of all the issues raised.

As a bisexual activists I have spoken to many Intersex people, all to date feel a connection with bisexuals because we both take up the grey area between the binary poles of gender/sexuality. Also most of the Intersex people I know have relationships with bisexuals, because bisexuals do not generally require someone to be purely male or female.
shades of grey - Mon 2 Sep 2002 13:16:48

I am a part of the GLBT community, I have volunteered countless hours to several organisations for the past 10 years (including MG), I write letters to politicians and I stand up to homophobia when I see it in the street.

But I am not out to my biological family. And they still mean alot to me. They just wouldn't/don't understand people who are GLBT. It's just the way they've been brought up and there is nothing I can do about it except to accept their limitations.

Now if the "outing" policy was adopted I would have to let my MG membership lapse because I can't afford to lose my family (who I love more than anything in the world, have I mentioned that?). And MG would lose out on one of the few members who isn't in it for the party tickets.

I also don't have the luxury of having a common Anglo name which would disguise me amongst the many other David Johnston's of the world.

I can live without my MG membership. But can MG live without the faceless people like me who contribute so much and ask for nothing in return except a little respect?
- Mon 2 Sep 2002 15:25:01

And an interesting factoid (I know it's true, but some will no doubt wish to question it). At the second meeting at fortress Erskineville (not the big one, the smaller workshop that only about 60 people attended) I had the opportunity to talk to....it would be cruel to name them, but everyone posting here would recognise it if I did. This person pointed out to me that 2002 was the first year that the "tick-a-box" declaration of sexual identity that you fill in when joining was also included on the renewal form. About ten percent of returned renewals indicated "straight", some people wrote a covering note acknowledging that they had been untruthful in the past but wanted to retain their membership, others just ticked the straight box and sent the form back. As far as I am concerned, this second group is probably just the tip of the iceberg, as most of us don't fill in forms which ask us our sexuality on a regular basis and "I take it up the arse if mardi gras calls" is not that difficult a concept to keep straight-so to speak-in one's head.

If we are producing the biggest world class parties in Southern hemisphere, there will always be straight people who want to come and will find a way. If nothing else, it was acknowledged by then-president David McLachlan at the AGM a couple of years ago that an event of that size will always have problems with perimeter security, and don't you think this is the route someone would take instead of giving $80 to the gay community if their intent was to disrupt the event rather than party with their gay friends? I have never been accosted at the mardi gras party by someone trying to remind me about the passage in Leviticus that condemns homosexuality (of course, this may have something to do with the fact that I have always preferred to stay home and listen to some vintage Elvis Costello instead of paying $100 to see which f__king Minouge they've dragged out this year....)
- Mon 2 Sep 2002 19:47:06

Think about who we would be excluding. The MG member who posted above for starters and who, unlike many others, makes a valuable contribution to our organisation but does not wish to be out to his or her family. Every young poof, dyke, bi or tranny who lives at home and does not have 100% supportive parents but doesn't want to be on the streets. Those who value their jobs and might lose them as did some of those people whose names were published in the paper in '78. (BTW anti-discrimination laws offer very imperfect and incomplete protection.) Anyone in the process of coming out. All those who are out generally but who have someone - anyone - who they do not wish to share this information with - whether it be their grandmother, boss, teacher or the aggressive man next door. I don't think we can expect that everyone can be out to everyone so to speak altho' hopefully one day...

It is not just that we would miss out on their contribution although that's certainly a concern. We would be sending a clear message that there was no place for them in our community, our organisation and even our parade. Let's keep fighting the homophobia that makes people understandably scared and try to change attitudes that put people at risk of discrimination and rejection rather than inadvertently adding our rejection to that of the straight world. Don't we parade cos we're proud but also to reach out to the young dyke in Tamworth from a fundamantalist family? To GLBTs in Tasmania or Wilcannia or Blacktown who may have more reason to be scared than some of us? That isn't to say those people could or would all join, and some of those who are most risk won't for very good reason, but at least we haven't inadvertently given them a message to piss off until they're ready to be out to absolutely everyone.
Kathy Sant - Mon 2 Sep 2002 21:29:11

One problem with the policy's introduction was that I don't think enough was done to encourage individual Mardi Gras members to take responsibility for:

(a) who they nominated for membership - if there were a lot of straight members, they or the straights who nominated them had to have been originally nominated by gay men or lesbians.

(b) who got their extra party tickets.

Requiring people to make that declaration before nominating/recommending someone may at least make them think about the person they are nominating/recommending.

With regard to "out" membership, Kathy Sant has posted an eloquent, compassionate and rational case against such a proposal.
Larry Galbraith - Tue 3 Sep 2002 09:58:55

Even with this it might be another $100,000 to $200,000.

But, in my opinion, this is exactly the type of thinking that has led us to the current situation. Do you remember the nickname Money Grab? Get every bit of money we can to fund a parade, party and festival that has to be bigger and better than last year.

Let us ask rather why we want members, not how much we can earn from having members.
Arti - Tue 3 Sep 2002 10:29:07

Second, your ideas for membership imply that you believe MG should be a political organisation. I believe the primary purpose of New MG should be to parade and any other activities we (the community) decide on. Being a political group takes a lot of extra effort and would duplicate the efforts of the Lobby. I believe that this would take away from the core areas of the organisation.

If all you are asking is that MG be a political mouthpiece for the community, this might be possible, but it would still need a committee charged with determining MG's position with respect to various issues and advising the spokespeople of those positions. Again, the Lobby is already the political mouthpiece.

Maybe New MG and the Lobby can work together on a way to use the Mardi Gras name to help the political messages get out.
Arti - Tue 3 Sep 2002 10:46:14

This is the original Commitment Statememt from the MG website:

Sydney Gay+Lesbian Mardi Gras is an organisation formed out of the diverse lesbian and gay communities of Sydney to enable us to explore, express and promote the life of our combined community through a cultural focus. We affirm the pride, joy, dignity and identity of our community and its people through events of celebration. We are committed to serving our community. We seek to enable individuals and groups within our community to discover, express and develop their artistic,cultural and political skills and potential. We strive through our events of celebration to strengthen the lives and rights of gay and lesbian people both nationally and internationally. We will achieve these objectives by:
* Organising events of celebration and pride, especially the annual Mardi Gras Season.
* Providing resources and opportunities to our community for creative expression.
* Providing resources and opportunities for the development of artistic, cultural and political skills and potential in individuals and groups in our community.
------------------------------
Here are the Vision and Aims (from a community finding document):

VISION
Formed out of the struggle for lesbian and gay rights, the Sydney Gay+Lesbian Mardi Gras is a community organisation which works to:
? Increase visibility.
? Develop community pride.
? Achieve equality for lesbians and gay men by producing the best events of lesbian and gay cultural expression and celebration.

COMMITMENT
Sydney Gay+Lesbian Mardi Gras is committed to:
? Human rights and social justice.
? Lesbian and gay coalitionism.
? Reconciliation with indigenous Australians.
? Excellence and innovation.
? Accessibility and accountability.
? Enabling individuals and groups in the lesbian and gay communities to discover, express and develop their artistic, cultural and political skills and potential.
? Passionately and unashamedly affirming the pride, joy and dignity of gays and lesbians and their diverse communities, and strengthening the lives and rights of gay and lesbian people nationally and internationally.
? In order to maintain our activities and sustain the organisation for the future, we operate as a community business enterprise that is financially responsible and continues to invest in the development of the diverse
lesbian and gay communities.
? In all our activities we respect equally the participation of our artists, members, staff and volunteers.
Arti - Tue 3 Sep 2002 10:52:19

We love the theme also...Sleaze In Uniform!
- Tue 3 Sep 2002 11:16:37

These statements have also been verified throug SLW.

For a change I am going to sign my post
Lisa G - Former Finance and Admin Manager and keeper of the list
- Tue 3 Sep 2002 14:17:39

Just a point of view from a tech guy
- Tue 3 Sep 2002 18:56:26

2/ I still hear a few sheep bleating about government help, dont you have more pride in helping your self , this philosphy of wingeing and putting our hand for money makes me sick. Social welfare is a good system designed for people and organisations who cannot for various reasons help themeselves , 90% of gay etc people are capable of helping theirselves and their organisation. Wake up bleating sheep
positive change - Wed 4 Sep 2002 01:25:34

“We were pleased to see the level of support on Saturday for efforts to keep the Mardi Gras Season alive during 2003 and since then the community organisations involved have met daily to discuss plans in the lead up to the September 30 creditors meeting,’ said ACON President Adrian Lovney.

PRIDE’s Lou-Anne Lind said the first priority of the community organisations was the creation of a new company and finalising the make up of the Board who will be drawn from all parts of the community. “We will be announcing the new Board members next week which will in effect be a caretaker committee,” Ms Lind said. “The new Board will have two strategic goals for the next six months – getting the new organisation on its feet and delivering the 2003 season as well as running community consultation about the future of Mardi Gras and its Constitution. Reflecting the interim nature of the Board, a Chair will be elected by the Board, to focus on coordination of the Board’s work”

Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby Co-convenor Andrew Pickles said community members had expressed their support for the new Mardi Gras. “Our call for volunteers to be involved in the new Mardi Gras saw almost 100 people from Saturday’s forum come forward and enlist their support,” Mr Pickles said. “The new organisation will be involving as many people as possible from across the community to work on events and the community consultation process. If you want to volunteer you can email ourmardigras@hotmail.com.”

Fundraising efforts were also underway according to Pip Newling, Queer Screen President “The AIDS Trust of Australia has agreed to take donations for the new organisation,” Ms Newling said. “People can make their cheques out to “AIDS Trust of Australia Mardi Gras Fund” and contact the Trust on 1800 689 188. The next community forum will be held on October 12 after the final creditors meeting of SGLMG and the new organisation’s Board will deliver a progress report on the outcome of the administration process and where we go from there.”

Mardi Gras Community Forum
Saturday October 12 2-5pm
Metropolitan Community Church
96 Crystal Street, Petersham
- Wed 4 Sep 2002 15:43:29

Only trouble is the practicalities around the Parade in its old format. Even just public liability insurance if we decide to pay it costs around $250,000 that we don’t have (could be more). And that’s just for starters. Seems to me doing the Parade in much the same way as before but on a smaller scale may turn out to be an option depending how much money we can raise in this short time. Equally it may turn out to be impossible.

So I was thinking about what are the elements of the Parade that we should try to keep no matter what. Having it at night? Why not, it’s one of the things that differentiates it from other pride marchs and makes it Mardi Gras. Being political. Well that’s essential and pretty inevitable when you parade as an out gay or lesbian or bi or tranny. I would like to preserve the element of pageantry and marching or protesting in costume as well.

Kathy Pavlich suggested that we could have a rally in Hyde Park then take over the adjourning streets. Or we could turn up in costume on 1 March and just march up the old route. No user pays, no insurance, no trucks or fireworks, no negotiating for weeks with a million authorities. Potentially a back to 78 costumed riot. Anyway, just wondering what people think it needs to include and ideas for how to do some form of political pageantry.
Kath - Wed 4 Sep 2002 21:59:30

Please publish minutes of your meetings or similar so that we feel as if we are being informed. Lets start right at the beginning with transparency and openness. Let us not have lots of closed meetings and waiting for the SSO to come out to find out what is happening.
Arti - Thu 5 Sep 2002 10:01:23

I am not advocating this approach but it is at least a fallback position and I think we need to explore all the options in light of our shortage of time and resources. It's also a good opportunity to tease out what really matters to us in terms of events and how we present ourselves to the world as well as organisational issues.
Kathy Sant - Thu 5 Sep 2002 10:12:56

You can count on this bisexual and all his queer friends to turn up no matter what happens!
- Thu 5 Sep 2002 11:19:50

PS. I hope this post is not a kiss of death!
Larry Galbraith - Thu 5 Sep 2002 11:40:21

The opening night film "Ruthie and Connie" was very telling in one particular montage set at a US gay pride parade in the daytime (I'm presuming New York where the subjects live, but welcome correction on this). The 'crowd' was, at most, 2 or 3 deep, I'm serious, more people would crowd at the barricades set around a traffic accident. Disturbingly, there was one shot of a group of propogandist anti-gay protesters, maybe 5 or 6 of them, but with such a small audience they sure made an impact.

It certainly got me thinking about exactly what the mardi gras parade does mean not just to us, but to the queer community everywhere. Yes, I agree that a semi-organised political march makes a good fallback position, but tonight it really hit me that it's not just the Sydney gay community, or the wider Sydney community, or the proverbial 14 year old lesbian in Tamworth who misses out if we don't continue the parade in the current format-for all it has become a cliche, it really is the queer community worldwide, and the loss of the only, let alone biggest, event of its type would be a major blow.

As for Kathy Pavlich's comment at the last community forum about the government copping a lot of flack for waiving the user pays charges for police, road closures, etc. yes, very disturbing and certainly needs to be dealt with. It got me thinking about one day after gun laws were tightened after the Port Arthur massacre, and my gun nut driving instructor was proudly boasting about attending a pro-gun rally that had almost 10,000 participants. One politely refrained from pointing out that an anti-gun rally could have attracted ten times that amount-except these were the people getting what they wanted and didn't feel the need to make a noise.

My point is that from a commonsense viewpoint we may feel that 500,000 people watching the parade should mean something, from a political viewpoint we may feel we shouldn't need to, and from the point of view that the government has refused us additional support it may pain us to do so, but from a practical viewpoint if we want to have a parade next year, it wouldn't hurt for a few of us to send e-mails or letters of thanks that the user pays charges have been waived in the past and expressing our wishes that it continue. I doubt those that care enough to complain about this situation are really that vast in number and we could easily dwarf them-if we aren't complacent about it. I would encourage PLAQ (why does everyone write PALQ which really needs to be pronounced as four syllables instead of the perfect one word acronynm which we could pronounce "plaque"?) to decide as soon as possible whether a full parade is possible next year, and if it is, to make locking in the existing level of government support we have always received a priority, even though it looks like we won't get any more.
- Thu 5 Sep 2002 22:48:42

Has anyone thought that we should approach one of the insurance companies to become a MG sponsor, to the tune of whatever the public liability premium would be? (If Vodafone were prepared to cough up $1.2m over three years (and this from a company facing serious financial problems in the UK), then one of the big insurers could find MG sponsorship attractive (particularly in being seen to be doing something positive about public liability costs).

As for the user pays charges, we should simply ignore them and put on the Parade anyway. (Hey Judy, let?s do a show!) What?s Bob Carr going to do about an outbreak of civil disobedience ? station the police at Whitlam Square to stop the parade? Fine, let him. It?ll make for great media coverage ? certainly better than a dreary Channel 10 broadcast.

I?m happy to be arrested (although I?m not so keen on the idea of getting bashed). Perhaps the community should develop a passive resistance campaign, and queer self-defence trainers a community education program. The queer law firms could produce and distribute ?your rights on arrest? cards (with a space on the back for ?pickup? information!)

Let?s test the Government?s law and order stance three weeks before the State election. I don?t think we?d hear too many complaints about the parade ?not being political enough?. We might even get to meet again on the day of the election, in Macquarie Street, to demand that the police ?drop the charges? of any of those arrested.

If Carr and Costa try to stop us, or succeed in doing so, we can substitute their heads on a platter for Fred Nile?s in 2004. Or we could have the Carr/Costa heads ready in Riley Street to join the 2003 melee if necessary. To burn them at the end of the night would help to cleanse at least some of the evil spirits from Oxford Street. We could fuel the fire with copies of all the undertakings the Labor Government has still not acted on, hopefully including a sixteen-year old queer young man with his boyfriend to ritually immolate the only recommendation from the Wood Royal Commission report that the Government has not had the guts to implement: that for an equal age of consent for young men who choose to fuck and be fucked by other men.

I?m not a ?78er?, but I?d quite like to be able to call myself an ?03er? when I talk with my grandchildren about the ?good old days?.

Murray McLachlan

PS I will be attending a PALQ meeting of those interested in becoming a board member that is being held at ACON on Saturday 7 September at 11am. As soon as I find out whom the fifteen or so people who will be attending, I?ll make a posting.

I will make my decision about continuing involvement based principally on who else is involved, how representative a QBTILG MG board would be, and on the undertakings of certain individuals not to play the politics of the past ? I am not prepared to put time and energy into a board that is cocktail cabinet based and aims to simply return to the ?glory? days of the past. Egos will have to be firmly locked in those Armani briefcases, and left at the meeting room door!

I am supportive of using the web for the distribution of agenda and minutes as soon as possible after a meeting is held as a previous poster has suggested. Final budgets, and reports on budget expenditure on events should be provided to the community as soon as possible after they have been held. Financial information, particularly projections of income targets and results from events and sponsorship, should also be scrutinised by an independent finance and audit committee made up of those community members who know how to read such information and can advise the board as to its financial management.

We?re starting afresh ? we need a mix of new and experienced directors to read the community and refocus on the events that they ? especially the younger generation - want to see and make happen. I?d welcome any feedback on whether people think I should get involved, and what issues (operational, artistic, political, camp, dirty, sexy and subversive, glamorous) you?d like me to take to the board.

PPS I hope ?Still wondering? is still wondering and will make himself available as a board member, or at least as a member of the finance and audit committee and consultant on the thorny (and frankly, for me, baffling) issues that need to be sorted out so that we can finally send the ashes of SGLMG Inc into a wind machine at the end of the RHI while Madonna does the three o?clock show: ?Stormy Weather?, then to be joined by Jennifer Holliday for ?And I am telling you, I?m not going? and then by Paul Capsis for ?I [read ?Mardi Gras?] will survive?!! Now there?s a time I?d like to be peaking for!!
- Fri 6 Sep 2002 01:48:27

I also have extensive professional experience in the 7 years I have been employed by Microsoft, which has included the very challenging role of Microsoft Consultant. I have presented for some very large and important tenders, designed and built applications for Australia's most popular web sites, managed customers and partners while under some very volatile and stressful situations. I get things done, I know how to work with a diverse group of people with different viewpoints. I believe I have a skill set and the energy that would be of great benefit to the community while we are rebuilding Mardi Gras.

Some of you are likely to know me via my campaign for bisexual inclusion into Mardi Gras after my rejection from membership in 99. Hence you may be concerned with me being involved in Mardi Gras. Please understand that my goal and that of the bi community has always been for equal status in the organisation that runs our Pride parade. We respect and honour the need for same-sex space, gay space, lesbian space etc. I am ready to forgive and forget, and focus 100% on the future. I hope others are ready to offer me and the bi community the same. We have an opportunity for a new start, so let's get it right!

I currently have little access to the PALQ decision makers, so am utilising this wall (thanks Larry for this community resource!) to express my desire to work with a ` team of people to rebuild Mardi Gras into the success that has touched every queer person in Australia. I hope that PALQ decision makers consider at least one active bi community member for the interim board.

If anyone would like to chat to me or ask any questions I can be emailed at glenn@bi.org.au , I will then send you my phone number.

Oh yes, Murray McLachlan. I love what you have been saying on this wall in the paper and at the meetings! When we meet it is my shout.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Fri 6 Sep 2002 13:03:50

However my partner's daughter will probably be a mother some day, and Rick and I will be grandfathers. I might even beat my three straight older brothers to grandfatherhood. I'll keep you posted.
Murray McLachlan - Sat 7 Sep 2002 03:00:12

BTW, I didn't think the SSO article this week reporting on last saturday's meeting at the MCC was entirely accurate. Did anyone take minutes of this meeting and can they post them here or somewhere on the web (perhaps the Pride website) so that people can see what really happened.

I'm looking forward to the next community meeting. After seeing Joan Nestle at Queerdoc last night, it was quite inspiring to see how much change people can effect, when they put their hearts and minds to it.
Evil Twin - Sat 7 Sep 2002 11:40:31

And if the NewMG board isn't involved in the organisation of this spontaneous act of civil disobedience then I can't see how they could be held accountable for it.
Dave the Bear - Sun 8 Sep 2002 16:34:52

Even just saying that everything is still up in the air and nothing has been been decided is better than nothing.

It almost feels likes us little consumers are being left in the dark on purpose because those with "power" don't want to let any of it go... ...and we all know what that's led to.
Transperancy from the begining PLEASE!! - Sun 8 Sep 2002 19:29:13

Having ex-directors on the new board is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Maybe it's just me. How do other people feel?
MG Ex-Directors what do people think? - Mon 9 Sep 2002 14:59:28

is this some sort of joke? to what purpose are they being appointed? are we the community supposed to be inspired by this?

what next? what on earth is going on?
furious! no ex-directors - Mon 9 Sep 2002 15:19:15

Of course, if you want to go with the whole conspiracy theory thing, and complain that People Are Keeping Things From You (Specifically YOU!) On Purpose, feel free. But it's probably a waste of energy.
- Mon 9 Sep 2002 16:14:23

Some points to consider.

1. While it will be a new company, some form of handover would be necessary. They will only be two, there will be another eight to make decisions.
2. If it is all clean fresh faced people, they would need advice on issues like the parade. Who else would they turn to for this? The ANZAC Day parade organisors?
3. As individuals they should never be held accountable for the actions of a collective board. Most poeple posting on this board, would not know what they as individuals are capable of contributing, they must have something to offer if palq is prepared to put them forward.
4. There is only a very small amount of people who are prepared to do this type of volunteer work. If these two are still in there trying to get things happening for next year, fantastic. There are even few people prepared to give all after, the bashing they have taken.
give these guys a break - Mon 9 Sep 2002 18:30:17

And I don't think it's correct to say that "As individuals they should never be held accountable for the actions of a collective board". Of course they are accountable!! If they aren't then who is??? As a board member you get to vote on resolutions - sure these are determined by majority but, ultimately, if you fundamentally disagree with the major decisions being made then you have the right to resign.
Boards are Accountable - Mon 9 Sep 2002 22:35:10

agree with what you have said but i think we need to take the personal out of this. this goes to the meanies out there, give them a break. really? let's look at this calmly.

maybe the community needs to think about the following:

1. they could contribute, consult, guide, etc etc without having to formally sit on the board

2. there may be implications regarding sponsorship, community confidence etc if they remain on the board

3. may be better to start with a clean slate

4. if this new organisation fails, they will be the first to scape-goated, it may be better for their protection to not be directly involved

5. if legal action is persued against them regarding the accusations of insolvency, they may not be able to sit.

i don't think anybody should crucify these people for helping out, for their commitment, their passon but perhaps we need to ask ourselves, is them being formally part of the board that necessary? there are other ways to contribute.
alterhate point of view - Mon 9 Sep 2002 22:36:15

It was also revealed that Mardi Gras secured loans totalling $150 000 two weeks after the 2001 AGM, allowing Sleaze & the 2002 season to go ahead. With the bank overdraft used, a loan of this size in place and staff liabilities running at around $170 000, Mardi Gras was already burdened with such a huge debt. Those directors who were appointed, for the first time (including Mark Barraket), are taking the responsibilty for problems that were well & truely intrenched in the organisation.

The annual financial statements show that a string of other directors served during the financial year just reported on. Where is the accountability from them?

Should Mark & Jacqui be on the new board of Mardi Gras? Some members of the community would say not, although many would say that they still have something of value to offer.
- Tue 10 Sep 2002 17:08:03

As for the Evil Twin, I'm one of those people that waits to see what needs doing, then point me in the right direction and press the go button!
Evil Twin - Tue 10 Sep 2002 20:55:35

In considering the merits of Mark Barraket and Jacqui Jones, we must take in to account their participation in the decision making that led to the demise of our Mardi Gras. That they belonged to the Board and participated in the process of decision making and strategy that led to this crisis has already damaged them, their reputation and their credibility.

This would seem to indicate to me that any benefits gained from their prior Board or Mardi Gras experience would most likely be countered by the negative views of them as a result of the financial crisis that they must take some responsibility for.

Julie Regan said at the community forum - WE got it wrong, WE made mistakes ... the WE she was referring to was, I assume the Board and CEO, and therefore I can only conclude that this includes Jones and Barraket, and therefore there must be more suitable candidates for the caretaker Board?

Would we consider Kelly Gardiner a good candidate for the Board or any new CEO or management position?

I believe that Jones and Baraket have a lot to offer as volunteers, but they will be a liability to new Mardi Gras. Time to start a fresh or we may be repeating the mistakes of the past.
New Mardi Gras - New Board! - Wed 11 Sep 2002 08:31:11

I absolutely believe that the skills of ex directors are needed. But do they need to be a director on the board to do that? The simple answer is No.

And there are some very good reasons which have been set out above as to why they shouldn't be on the Board. But I don't think anyone is suggesting that they shouldn't be invited to be involved and to contribute BUT JUST NOT BE DIRECTORS.

If the ex-directors were truly passionate about seeing a new mardi gras get up and succeed, then they would be freely offering their experience in whatever capacity required. Are the ex directors willing to offer help ONLY if they are directors? If that's the case, then one has to question their true motivations and by what right they are trying to hold everyone to ransom!!
Troubled - Wed 11 Sep 2002 13:10:02

We are, with a new Board or not, recreating Mardi Gras. We are creating an organisation to run events, put on parade, party and fair day (amongst others), secure sponsorship, have membership. We might be tinkering with the model (chaing festival, letting bisexuals in at last) but we are not fundamentally changing it.

Is this good?

In some ways - yes. The existing sponsors of Mardi Gras (whose money is required to get the new organisation going in same way it was for the old), made it clear that they WOULD continue as sponsors of the new organisation if it looked like the old, did the old things, had the same old impact on Sydney. They also wanted continuity in the form of experience on the Board from people they trusted.

Far from Jacqui and Mark being a liability, I would suggest that they might be VITAL for the new organisation to keep the sponsors feeling secure (and don't start on about moving away from sponsorship unless you prepared to donate $500k to the new organisation).

Indeed, you might even suggest that as the suppliers, sponsors etc of Mardi Gras are vital for going forward, some of the more senior staff (Kelly, Lisa, Scott etc) might also be important.

It is interesting that our own commuity seems to think the Director's are almost personally responsible for Mardi Gras losing so much money last year, when the suppliers, sponsors and government all seem to realise that it wasn't the fault of any one board, any one event or any one person.

Interesting how we concentrate on the personal attacks, isn't it?

Do Jacqui and Mark have something to contribute? I'll bet they do. Can they contribute without being on the Board? Of course they can (if people will let them).

CAn they contribute even more from a board position (in terms of history, management, organisational development, relationship) - you bet.

Do I want a strong new organisation? Yes
Do I want it to have every chance of success? Yes
Do we need sponsors and suppliers on side? Yes
Will have Jacqui and Mark on the Board help this? YES

Who wants to undermine the new organisation by keeping talent off it?
Nothing succeeds like a canary - Wed 11 Sep 2002 15:53:36

People who know them will tell you that they both have good reputations, are people of integrity, have a wealth of history about the Mardi Gras and genuinely care. I doubt you would keep them away by not placing them on the board.

If we look at their achievements, Mark Barraket was the director who returned the parade to politics. Many would say it was the best in many years, (agreed he didn't do it alone but none the less led this thing) and on the smallest, tightest budget in years. He also organised the second community forum at Mardi Gras, which everyone also had praise for. Two public leadership roles, two successes.

Jacqui Jones also was responsible for two outstanding parties, last years Sleaze & this years Mardi Gras. Attendances may have been down, but they are at all parties. I think she also directed the 2001 parade.

At this point, it is also speculation that they have been appointed to the new board. No public statement has been made. Seems that many people are quick to comment against these two, without confirmation of their involvemnt.
- Wed 11 Sep 2002 17:32:40

I welcome any comments this might generate.
Murray McLachlan - Wed 11 Sep 2002 21:54:40

MEDIA RELEASE 11 September, 2002

New Mardi Gras Interim Board Appointed

Following endorsement at recent community forums ACON, Pride, the Gay & Lesbian Rights Lobby and Queer Screen have formed a "new Mardi Gras" organisation. The caretaker board will be charged with the tasks of coordinating the 2003 Mardi Gras Season, trying to keep the assets of Mardi Gras in community hands at a reasonable price and determining the future of Mardi Gras following widespread consultation.

"A company is being registered this week and we have so far appointed seven members of the 12 member Board," said PRIDE Co-President Lou-Anne Lind. "The Board will then make recommendations on the three further appointments to fill any identified gaps in skills or expertise."

"The make up of the NMG Board reflects a broad range of experience and community involvement with a mix of old and new faces which will be important for ensuring continuity and new ideas," said ACON President Adrian Lovney.

"This is the first step in working towards delivering a more grassroots 2003 Season," said Queer Screen's Pip Newling. "Our organisations have had in principle discussions with state and local governments as well as various venues so we are well on the way to securing all the major events."

The Board members of New Mardi Gras include (in alphabetical order):

• Stevie Clayton, former Co-convenor of GLRL, former President of OUTfm, past committee member of SGLMG and current CEO of ACON
  
• Brendan Crotty, finance manager with experience in large organisations and member of the POOFTA touch football club.
  
• Karla Hansford, business management consultant, former SSO General Manager and past Finance/Admin Manager of SGLMG (1995-97)
  
• Jacqui Jones, former SGLMG board member, Parade Director and Party Committee Director
  
• Murray McLachlan, former SGLMG President, member of GLRL, Pride and Mardi Gras Hall of Fame
  
• Stuart Newell, solicitor, former committee member of GLRL including a term as Secretary and past ACON volunteer
  
• Michael Woodhouse, health service manager, SSO board member and current member of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Choir.
  

Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby Co-convenor Andrew Pickles said "community feedback has been enormously supportive of our organisations moving to keep Mardi Gras 2003 alive and are now entrusting the new Board with the responsibility of building on this momentum".
- Wed 11 Sep 2002 21:57:06

MEDIA RELEASE 11 September, 2002

A successful 2003 Mardi Gras season will rely heavily on community support and volunteers according to the new Mardi Gras organisation formed this week.

"There is an incredibly strong groundswell of support in the gay and lesbian community for Mardi Gras to continue in some form and this is the organisation through which people can make that happen," said new Mardi Gras spokesman Michael Woodhouse.

"The new organisation has been formed to coordinate the 2003 Mardi Gras Season, try to keep the assets of Mardi Gras in community hands if we can get a reasonable price and determine the future of Mardi Gras following widespread consultation.

"This week seven members of the 12-member Board of new Mardi Gras have been appointed and additional members will come on board in the next few weeks to make sure we have the right mix of skills to carry this off.

"One of our first tasks will be talking with the adminstrators of the old Mardi Gras. There are obvious advantages to securing the assets of the old organisation but we will only be able to do so for a small cost and with few liabilities.

"We want to make Mardi Gras 2003 innovative, creative and dynamic while retaining some of the core events that the community expect to see and participate in. Pride, ACON, the Gay & Lesbian Rights Lobby and Queer Screen have already laid the groundwork for these events but we will need the talents and creativity of volunteers to ensure this happens.

"We are looking for both former Mardi Gras volunteers and people who haven?t been involved before that have skills, time and ideas to offer. A number of people who have attended community forums have already expressed their interest in volunteering and we will be in touch with them shortly.

"Anyone who wishes to register their interest can email newmardigras@acon.org.au. We would also encourage support for fundraising efforts with the AIDS Trust of Australia?s Mardi Gras Fund.

"New Mardi Gras Board members will report to the community at the next Community Forum on October 12 following the final creditors meeting of SGLMG," Mr Woodhouse said.

Mardi Gras Community Forum
2-5pm Saturday October 12
Metropolitan Community Church
96 Crystal Street, Petersham
- Wed 11 Sep 2002 21:58:25

Company Structure
We need to look at a different, long term structure to ensure that the 'intangible' assets of Mardi Gras (including the name, logo, trademarks, goodwill) are never again threatened, perhaps along the lines of that used to create the 'new' Belvoir Street Theatre: a 'Company Pink' which owns (and ensures that nobody else can ever touch) the 'intangibles', and a 'Company Blue' that is essentially licensed by Company Pink to produce the Mardi Gras season events. Company Blue would then pour any profits back into Company Pink, which would use them to foster community development.

Community bid for the Mardi Gras assets
This is the most critical issue to be dealt with in the next few weeks - if the 'community' doesn't buy the assets we may as well all pack up and go home. However, I don't want it to become a political weapon to apportion blame to the 'old' board (when in fact a number of previous boards have been responsible for creating an attitude in Mardi Gras that the Festival in particular was inviolate) or to derail the process that has come out of the community consultations and the community coalition to date - there is the potential for a less than serious bid being put up, with the intention of allowing the company to go into liquidation (and all that that entails). Such a bid (at say '$2') could however be snookered by a bid for '$3' - there is some potential for some mischievousness to be played here by an 'old (old) guard' that would then step in as the 'pink knights' - that cannot be allowed to happen. There is no doubt the eyes of the community will be on the bid, and on any evidence of a repeat of the 'old' Mardi Gras politics. I am not prepared to be involved in a board that works that way, nor in satisfying the egos of those 'outside' who might seek to run interference. It's time for everyone to put their egos aside and use their talents for the good of our QBTILG communities, not personal aggrandisement.

Membership of Mardi Gras
As you will see I am a member of the interim Board, and have taken on the responsibility for corporate governance, structure and membership issues (to be confirmed at the next meeting of the board tomorrow (Thursday) night). There are some fundamental issues that have to be confronted about membership: Who can join? My personal view is it should be anybody who is prepared to support Mardi Gras' aims: queer, bisexual, transgender, intersex, lesbian, gay, confused, refuse to label myself, don't care. Is membership a pre-requisite to buying party tickets? We'll have some evidence with Pride's presentation of Sleaze to test what is, for Pride, and potentially for Mardi Gras, a ticket selling approach that is non-judgemental and inclusive.

Roll on February 2003! See you on Oxford Street on 2 March 2003!
Murray McLachlan - Wed 11 Sep 2002 21:58:56

NMG is extremely fortunate to have people with the integrity of Karla Hansford involved. If Kathy Sant hasn't been asked (which I'd find incredible), she should be.

Although I don't know Jacquie very well, the least that can be said is that she didn't just wash her hands of the whole thing and walk away - which must have been tempting.

Good luck!
Sean Crellin - Thu 12 Sep 2002 13:28:57

Still I am thrilled to hear about all this talk of a GLBT (or is it GLBTI or GLBTIQ etc) constitution. Though I agree with Richard Cobden's point above that there will be areas where the issues and the interests of the constituent groups will not be 100% in synchronisation. But I trust this recently announced board to efficiently and fairly sort all of the issues out.

One issue that is likely to come up early is the need for a gay and lesbian space, in other words a same-sex space. The party is where same-sex space is celebrated and I believe it needs to be retained, it is what I always enjoyed (and respected) about the parties.

With the broadening of the membership base there is now a very real threat to this same-sex celebration that the parties represent. I believe we need to think of ways to deal with the impending dilution of this gay and lesbian space.

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can ensure that the new Mardi Gras retains such an important cultural space?
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Thu 12 Sep 2002 13:30:53

Given the possibility of things being a little more difficult than previously, I suggest strongly to the Interim Management Board of New Mardi Gras that they convene a Parade Committee as a matter of urgency.
Former Parade Comm Member - Thu 12 Sep 2002 14:36:42

My point to you Glenn ... Understand we are all novices in the journey of life and no one is a total expert. Think very clearly of all reprecussions before you demand anything further. You may well have a lot to offer if you understand you are dealing with the acceptance of homosexuality in the first instance.
transparency - Thu 12 Sep 2002 16:47:52

I say Yeah go for it NEW MARDI GRAS
proud community member - Thu 12 Sep 2002 17:29:46

I agree with Sean Crellin that some of the comments have been a bit harsh. I'm acutely aware of the commitment that people are making in signing up for this immensely difficult job. If people think that all the skills needed aren't there yet, bear in mind that Michael Woodhouse speaking on behalf of the Board said the same thing. They're obviously on the lookout for smart people in areas like sponsorship.

It's not just the Board that counts either. Its degree of strength, skill, integrity, vision, harmony, openness etc will no doubt go a long way to determining whether the New MG succeeds and we should encourage, even demand, all these attributes. There should be lots of room for input from non-Board members too though. If it or we think of the Board as the whole story in terms of the new organisation, it won't have a hope. While it's a very important handful of people in the end it's still only a handful of people that can only do so much.
Kathy Sant - Thu 12 Sep 2002 20:12:51

Please do not look at my comments as demands, I am sincerely trying to help. All I am saying is that when it comes to celebrating who we are I still doubt we are going to be happy in the same space. Bisexuals are proud that we love and lust both genders, it is something we wish to celebrate, we (and other queers) need a space that respects and supports this principle. Stating things such as "homosexuality in the first instance" only highlights the gulf still present in our beliefs.

This issue will not go away because we all wish it will, the feelings (monosexism and heterophobia) that caused this problem in the first place are still prominent. Sweeping these feelings under the carpet will only cause further problems in the future, hence they must be addressed, and there is no better time then in the beginning.

However I do not think these problems are so insurmountable that we cannot do other things together, we just need to be clever when it comes to how we set up our fund rasing parties. Let's talk about what we all want and try and work things out for the benefit of everyone!
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Fri 13 Sep 2002 11:41:57

My email is available, please email me and we can meet. If this incident is indeed true I should remember you, I can then apologies in person.
Glenn Vassallo - glenn@bi.org.au - Sat 14 Sep 2002 08:33:53

the answer to all the discussion is in front of our noses , 20 years ago all the gays were wereing funny beards and moustaches with their funny leather hats etc, 10 years ago the gays were really pushing their rights publically, now is now , basically being gay is passe or nothing special, so the answer is there .
Mardi gras has died , so it does not matter, because being gay is nothing special , we are all equal and we do not need to make a statement in Australia.

maybe the few die hards who think there is really something to celebrate or compalin about can emigrate to a few countries that need help in gay and human rights , ie Korea ,Malaysia , iran , iraq , bolivia , maybe indnonesia , burma , palestine and lebanon.

Gay is Passe , let it die , we are no different to anyone else , and no one cares , apart form a few pauline hanson supporters west of rockhampton,
positive change - Sat 14 Sep 2002 19:27:03

Is there any word on what the new constitution will look like? Who will decide what this new constitution looks like? Do the organisations who are backing New MG (ie. Pride) get a say in what they want the constitution to look like? And will they have the guts to pull out if it means that some sections of our community aren't included in the new organisation on the same level as others.
- Sun 15 Sep 2002 01:40:05

but the bottom line still reamims "gay is passe " its normal as straight or abenstation, its a individual choice ,

give it up ,it is 2002 not 1952 but it is still 1952 in some countries.

for all thsoe people living in past , please emigrate to those countries that need pioneering human right advocates
- Sun 15 Sep 2002 19:18:22

A good starting point would be a documentary (most recently shown on SBS last year) called (I think) Pink Triangle. This program documents the experiences of gay German men and women who lived in Germany in the early part of last century and experienced firstly the wonderful and liberated days of the Weimar Republic and then saw the rise of the Nazi's and the persocution of (among many others) the homosexual population and the holocaust that followed. The interviews with the men and women and their descriptions of life, as it was, are a fascinating insight in to how life changed over time from a generally accepting and liberal society to the horror of life under Adolf Hotler.

The interviews with some of the men (now in their 70's 80's and 90's) and their description of how life gradually changed represents to me THE reason for us to celebrate and be visible and to continually stake our claims to our rights.

Vigilance is the price of freedom. Our visibility ensures our survival and protects us from the tyranny of assimilation.

Gay can not be passe, it is part of the human condition and, along with many other factors, it defines us as individuals and collectively as a community. It is a part of our self expression and our self. To say it is passe is to say that life is passe.

The article, the picture that accompanied it and the headline were merely vehicles for a poorly researched and written document designed to sell the authors book due out soon!. I hope nobody buys it!
(Gay) Life is beautiful! - Mon 16 Sep 2002 12:35:43

Progress and growth is already being undermined by repetition of the old ways.
- Mon 16 Sep 2002 13:03:44

Have a look at some of the stories on the graffiti wall on coming out and tell me we have achieved everything.

If you could tell me where this equal world is I would love to move there but in the meantime, I'll be there in March 2003 to keep MG going. But I look forward to the day that we really don't need it at all.
dreaming - Mon 16 Sep 2002 13:57:49

regarding the issue from one poster on what you can do in the workplace is out of place , talking about what you did with your girlfreind last night is offensive , just as offensive as a straight guy who comes to work and brags how and when he did his girlfreind, thats not discrimination that is common courtesy and correct etiquette in society.

i personally thought the article was relevant to me at my circumstance in life , but respect other peoples opinions on what they think , this is what graffitti is about , a personal expression.

and my personal opinion after reading gay is passe , it does not really matter if mg dies , it is a pretty nice world here in sydney to live compared to a lot of other places in the world for a gay guy or girl.

but take heart , think about all the good work you have done in the past for all people like myself , so i can live a free life. thank you!
positive change - Mon 16 Sep 2002 23:03:01

This issue is not related to talking about sex in the work place. The issue is the ability to go into work and talk about the weekend/last night in the same way that heterosexuals do. Some people can't say, "oh my boyfriend/girlfriend and I went to the blues mountains at the weekend". Some people have to constantly censor their conversations and remove any reference to anything which may indicate their sexuality. This includes everything from any mention of a "we did this" to which bars they had a beer in on Friday night. This is the sort of social discrimination and harrassment that some people experience every day of their life.

Some of us are lucky and don't have to endure this. But I don't think we should be so selfish as to not give a damn about those people who aren't so lucky. And you never know when your life will change and you'll suddenly find yourself on the receving end of this sort of discrimination. You won't always be in the same job, live in the same city, have the same state of health, etc.
Cakeboy - Tue 17 Sep 2002 09:23:06

Murray McLachlan
Director, Interim Board, New Mardi Gras

2003 MARDI GRAS PARADE TO GO AHEAD

MEDIA RELEASE 17 September, 2002

New Mardi Gras today announced that the 2003 Mardi Gras Parade will go ahead on Saturday March 1 next year and a Parade Forum is planned for Saturday week to start preparations.

“The parade is the centrepiece of a Mardi Gras season and we are pleased to announce that we have in effect booked the 2003 parade,” said new Mardi Gras spokesman Michael Woodhouse.

“The Police have agreed to provide assistance on the night and South Sydney City Council has indicated their continued in-kind support.

“We want to hear from the community about what they think this parade should look like. We are planning a community forum on Saturday 28
September and people can come along and have their say.

“We have invited people who have been involved in the past but we also want new faces. A new Mardi Gras Parade Committee will be formed after the forum to progress the ideas discussed. This is the community’s opportunity to get involved and help shape the look of next year’s parade.

“New Mardi Gras will be establishing committees for other events over the coming weeks and hosting a range of public forums for community involvement.

“Volunteers and people interested in contributing their skills to the 2003 Mardi Gras and other events can email newmardigras@acon.org.au.

“Community members, especially businesses, can also support the 2003 Mardi Gras season by contributing to the AIDS Trust of Australia Mardi Gras Fund. Donations are tax deductable.

“Donated funds are vital to securing key assets of old Mardi Gras and we only have four weeks to raise the money for this. We are still in negotiation with the administrators of SGLMG to establish a reasonable price for the assets that mean the most to our community.

“Anyone wanting to discuss making a donation can call 9206 2073,” Mr Woodhouse said.

2003 Mardi Gras Parade Forum
2-5pm Saturday 28 September
Metropolitan Community Church
96 Crystal Street, Petersham
- Tue 17 Sep 2002 20:33:22

Just imagine what would have happened if either the Bev Lange or David Mclachlan boards had have stood up to the "vision" of their respective Festival and Party Committees. And just imagine where we would be now if they had've done so.
- Thu 19 Sep 2002 07:31:27

I am a strong beleiver in standing up for what you beleive in , so i may not see mardi gras as relevant after reading gay is passe , but i do applaud the people working hard to ressurect the mg event for themeselves and other people who think it is still relevant.

I also wish some of the people with the energy and committment could use that energy overseas in some countries where there are zero equality for gay.
positive change - Thu 19 Sep 2002 09:29:33

1. What happened to Murray's comment about posting details onto the Pinkboard after the 3pm meeting held at ACON, weeks ago. What was his portfolio again. Hmmm!

2. Should Michael Woodhouse be on the Board, or speaking at all. Is the SSO a creditor. Is this ethical? Hmmm!

3. What happened to transperancy, such as minutes, committment to the organisation having a true queer representation on the board, including bisexuals and transgenders! Hmmmm!

4. Only 210 people turned up to the 2nd community forum. What percentage is this of the community? You could argue that more people didn't support the NMG forum, by not attending? Did NMG really have a mandate? Hmmmm!

5. Why is Adrian Lovney still being quoted in the SSO as speaking on behalf of the coalition? Don't we have a new Board, now? Hmmm!

6. Why are we saying 'NMG Directors'? To date NMG isn't a registered entity. If otherwise, please let them example. Hmmm!

7. Aren't the assets of the SGLMG, still assets of SGLMG? It isn't deregistered, as yet. The SGLMG Board powers have only been suspended. NMG taking over a core activity of another company - is this legal? As a SGLMG member, I still am active an entity, by law. Hmmm!

8. SGLMG Members - Are you happy NMG has taken over, without your consent. Do you wish to challenge this act, we may have a case? Hmmm!
Food for thought - Thu 19 Sep 2002 23:33:11

As to getting an opportunity to shape NMG, I hope this is still coming. I believe that there are business things that have to be done to ensure that it can go ahead. I agree that it would be nice to know more, but we have to remember that all the directors are volunteers and probably have full time jobs.
Have you volunteered to help?
Arti - Fri 20 Sep 2002 07:48:23

Food for thought you have hit it on the head !!
The NMG is a complete farce and panders to egos and groups without a mandate to stage the event.

Power was in fact usurped.
A group of marionettes have been orchestrated by experienced puppeteers- to overwhelm the community with idle talk and promises.

Sad but true the NMG is not representative, but involves a combination of folk either bored with 'paid' jobs, bureaucrats seeking a grab at notoriety and creditors being appeased.

We need a UNITED Community Group rallying for this rescue mission.
I suggest another Community Forum- near the strip not at Petersham (uggh).
Let's have an apolitical group such as the S.G.L.B.A mediate and get some TRUE transparency going.

Mardi Gras still belongs to it's members !!
Indigestion - Fri 20 Sep 2002 08:11:04
This is the opinion of the poster.

As far as NMG having a mandate, you could argue that this was the last thing the forces behind NMG wanted. After all, they didn't put up any motions which would have given everyone a chance to vote on whether they wanted them to take over. In fact, the guy they got to chair the meeting seemed to be determined to ensure that wouldn't happen. If it wasn't for some guy moving a motion just as the meeting was closing supporting what NMG was doing, they wouldn't have any sort of mandate at all! And we don't even know if anyone recorded that motion.

I hope the forum on 12 october is better organised, and they get a chair who isn't dead against meetings making their own decisions.
- Fri 20 Sep 2002 08:28:26

derrrrrrrr ! do you understand ...
positive change - Fri 20 Sep 2002 16:03:35

Your response to my point 4 - about lack of community interest, is fair. However, if the majority of the community couldn't care less, where does that leave NMG - should it stage a community event that nobody seems to care about?

The question you pose regarding 'volunteering' - is best phrased "From those that have volunteered, how many have NMG contacted?" I hear they're very selective about who they contacted.

I'm am still awaiting information on this new company/association by NMG. Why haven't they seeked members?? Why haven't they posted more information, other than media releases on this board?? They say they are Directors, so who is Chair? Who is President? Too silent for my likings!
Food for thought - Fri 20 Sep 2002 18:32:31

ACON's involvement in rescuing Mardi Gras has seen many a dinner party discussion. There is still much to do in HIV/AIDS, mental health, drug use and gay men sexual health, especially with the Gay Games partying season fast approaching us.

The engery Stevie Clayton must be putting into NMG is enormous, and should be of concern....as a CEO her time mustn't come cheap. Stevie's committment to NMG must be costing ACON a pretty penny, in addition to the organisation's $50,000 contribution.

ACON's work is varied, their communities diverse, which are not all gay and lesbian. Their structure corporate, they are at the mercy of the government funding, and possibly should no longer be identified as a non-government organisation.

If ACON has seen an opportunity to move into new areas, will the future mardi gras become a celebration of ACON's collective communities, which are broader than gay and lesbian. ACON's Credo is around working with marginalised communities - this is fact.

Are we ready to see for a New Mardi Gras? If so, what will it look like and will I feel prid when walking in the parade along with every other community expressing their own community pride.
- Sat 21 Sep 2002 05:24:56

The decision to hold the 1985 Mardi Gras and the establishment of ACON are not unrelated events. They both represent the determination of a community to confidently and effectively respond to a crisis without compromising pride, dignity or identity.

In May 1986, following a successful Mardi Gras Parade and Party, the Mardi Gras Committee donated $14,500.00 (quite a large amount in those days) to ACON to refurbish its newly acquired offices in Sophia Street, Surry Hills - and having visited those offices before refurbishment - I can tell you that money was sorely needed. Late in 1986/87 Bill Whittaker, who had been a fulltime unpaid President of Mardi Gras between May 1985 and September/October 1986 joined ACON as its first Executive Director. The skills and experience which Bill brought from Mardi Gras proved to be invaluable in eastablishing ACON as a strong community institution.

In the early 1990s, when the AIDS Trust of Australia (established on the initiative of the Australian Federation of AIDS Organisations which includes ACON as a member) held its CounterAid fundraisers in the Sydney CBD, people who had gained their experience through Mardi Gras were heavily involved in organising the army of volunteer collectors.

Simlarly, people who gained their experience through Mardi Gras were integral to the community buyout of the Star Observer in late 1987/1988 - at a time when it faced closure. While some may dispute this, the Star has remained integral to ACON's efforts to inform and educate the community about HIV/AIDS.

I provide this potted history to demonstrate the extent to which Mardi Gras is integral to ACON's work and our community's response to HIV/AIDS, and to show the debt which ACON and our response to HIV/AIDS owes to Mardi Gras.

I have no way of knowing whether ACON has kicked in $50,000 or whether Stevie Clayton is devoting work time and energy to the survival of Mardi Gras. Some may question the appropriateness of such actions if these claims are true. In my view however, ACON has a moral obligation to do what it can to assist the survival of Mardi Gras. At the very least, ACON and Stevie Clayton are helping to repay a debt that is long overdue, and a debt that until now, has never needed to be called in. Accordingly, I fully support Stevie Clayton being involved in the bid to rescue Mardi Gras. Her being a community employee enables her to do things that other members of the interim board cannot do, given that they are all volunteers with day jobs. There is simply no one else with her level of community involvement or experience in a similar position who can play the role that she must now be playing. I say this as someone who has had differences with her in the past, and who is, to put it mildly, not one of her favourite people.

Some might argue that we have reached the point when our community no longer needs Mardi Gras, and any debt that might owed should be written off or forgotten. They may be encouraged in their view by the notion that gay is passe. Gay may be passe, but HIV/AIDS isn't. And I am not sure whether we can take the risk of writing off important community symbols so lightly. At the very least, I think we should suspend judgement on whether gay and Mardi Gras are passe. The real test of the continuing relevance of Mardi Gras will come on 1 March, 2003 and that will be whether the new organisation can get gays, lesbians, bisexuals, queers, people of transgender and inter-sex into the streets. Only then will be able to judge whether ACON's and Stevie Clayton's and New Mardi Gras' efforts were misplaced or justified.
Larry Galbraith - Sat 21 Sep 2002 09:43:41

I also have been told that the board of NMG has agreed to have only 2 hours of board meeting once a week, so that they don't burn themselves out. How much can be achieved in that time? Can we expect these volunteers to drop everything to get NMG going. How many staff and volunteers worked to keep SGLMG going? be a bit patient.

I do agree though that it would be nice to have a bit more information here. I will be pushing for as much transparency as possible, such as publishing the board minutes on a website.
Arti - Sat 21 Sep 2002 10:07:58

My mispelling of the word "established" in the sentence: "The skills and experience which Bill brought from Mardi Gras proved to be invaluable in eastablishing ACON as a strong community institution." was not meant to suggest that ACON's focus was limited to Darlinghurst and Surry Hills, sometimes referred to as "ghetto east".
Larry Galbraith - Sat 21 Sep 2002 12:33:36

Stevie Clayton has an important community role - to manage ACON's business, government and community funds, and over 100 dedicated staff. Her skills are necessary in the fight, but we have many talented individuals in our community, such as yourself. Many organisations committment to the fight.

ACON does have a role, and a part to play; and with ACON's support, guidance and experience, ACON can help develop other organisations such as Pride, to continue the work of the SGLMG.

These trying times for us all. Transparency is imperative. Clear communication a must. As a community we need to ensure that the bubble doesn't burst again. Keeping to the core business was a recommendation regarding Mardi Gras. Why is ACON so different?
- Sat 21 Sep 2002 16:36:30

There's also a bit in the report about Julie's board trimming $1 million off the budgets set by the previous board - the budgets set when paul croft was treasurer.

There's two things to draw from all of this. First Julie's board actually did try and do something when they realised they were in the poo. And paul croft probably has a bit of explaining to do. and perhaps its time to ask - why do the people who want to blame Julie and stop members of the former board being on new mardi gras board, why are they letting paul croft get off scot free?
It's appauling - Tue 24 Sep 2002 21:08:38

I think people should ask any ACON staff if there was a meeting held to explain some of the workings of the NMG board. Why are some people who aren't on the board allowed access to information like this, whilst the general community is kept in the dark?

Sure some of the things are still in the pipeline (ie. a FABO!! idea for next year's festival launch) - but some of the things are set in stone and the community needs to know about it (ie. $50,000 loan etc). The things I've heard about NMG are all good (so far) but I am disappointed that I had to hear it all from someone "in the know" instead of reading about it in SSO like I should. If NMG wants to gain the communities' trust, then they better start treating us all like equals instead of it still being an old boys club.
And yes this is just the opinion of the poster - Tue 24 Sep 2002 22:31:25

this is Pinkboard, online showpiece of our community's innermost thoughts. Only fantasy, hysteria, bile and conspiracy theory are allowed here.
Death by a million cuts - Wed 25 Sep 2002 08:59:20

Is gay passe was always meant as a question, and I think it is a fair enough question to pose given the collapse of gay pride festivals around the world. True, the essay was packaged in a way that went further than the text actually spelt out, but that's the newspaper trade. And yes, it is a fair enough question to ask why the media were interested in this particular angle, although I think an easy resort to conspiracy theories is a bit simple.

Clearly I don't think gay is passe, just that there is change in the air, some of it substantial. But social change, collectively and maybe even more so for the individual, is always uneven. So I reckon there will be an increasing number of ways of living homosexuality in the future, which at the very least, should make life interesting and challenging for both activists and commentators.

But does this mean all battles have been won, and that we have reached the end of (gay) history? Course not. And do I think that homosexual inequality is no longer an issue? Nope. But yes, I do think a growing number of indivudals are carving out lives for themselves where their homosexuality is not experienced as central, although this can change in a second (and then change again) as the outside world reminds you that homosexuality is not yet an equal way of being.

And I'm not entirely sure this trend is limited to an inner-city elite, as some correspondents have suggested to me privately, although I would agree that material factors do of course mould the way we live our homosexuality. But you know, people are damn creative in the way they build a life, and that creativity is not completely limited by location or social status.

Call me politically naive, an inner-city elitist, or a postmodern wanker, but I still think that the world and individual homosexual lives are changing (if not yet changing enough). And while this is exciting, I don't think it is necessarily a message for complacency.

So me, I hope the New Mardi Gras get off the ground. It will be fun to see what we can come up with next.
Robert Reynolds - Wed 25 Sep 2002 11:54:04

The ACON takeover is hardly surprising. This organisation has a history of empire building at the expense of inclusion and diversity. The community seemed to be leaning towards Pride but at some point ACON has swept in and put a stop to all of that.

The issue of young people continues to be handled in an appalling way. There are young community leaders out there. Pride and the Lobby have both attracted young female leaders but they are not heard or seen which was apparent at the community forum because they had to stand up and actually state their age!

The NMG board is very much made up of the old guard which is needed for experience and expertise but I would question the absence of youth from this board.
- Wed 25 Sep 2002 14:13:10
This is the opinion of the poster.

And to the first poster, point taken.
Robert Reynolds - Wed 25 Sep 2002 16:27:54

Am I the only one thinking a couple of seats are being kept for these people...all Stevie Clayton's mates. Onya Stevie! You scratch my back......
- Wed 25 Sep 2002 20:01:56

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