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Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Limited is currently under Voluntary Administration. It is hoped by many that it can trade its way out of this.

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SGLMG Graffiti Wall 17
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on the same weekend have a music concert with talent donated, for the supporters who do not like a sleaz balll but want to contribute to the whole fund raiser with collectors with buckets doing the circuit, more raffles compettitions etc etc .

ok lets have a go , u never know we might raise a $200,000 that weekend and have some fun at the same time.
positive change - Wed 7 Aug 2002 09:44:42

John Brogden, Telephone - (02) 9999 3599Fax - (02) 9999 0922
Email - pittwater@parliament.nsw.gov.au

Bob Carr Telephone - (02) 9349 6440 Fax - (02) 9349 4594
Email - bob.carr@www.nsw.gov.au

Sandra Nori Telephone - (02) 9660 7586 Fax - (02) 9660 6112
Email - sandra.nori@parliament.nsw.gov.au

Clover Moore Telephone - (02) 9360 3053 Fax - (02) 9331 6963
Email - clover.moore@parliament.nsw.gov.au
Silence=Death - Wed 7 Aug 2002 12:18:43

To lose this is to lose some of our visibility, and therefore our collective strenght and power over those that seek to make us invisible or second class. The price of the freedoms that we have already won, is the vigilant watch we must keep. Having an organisation as large as Mardi Gras, and a Parade as big and a community as prominent was a part of our freedoms, a celebration of them as well as an annual reminder the the likes of Pell, Nile, Howard and the rest that we were not going to go away.

We seem to have forgotten that Parade is the core reason for Mardi Gras's existence, and that Sleaze Ball is a fund raiser for Parade and Mardi Gras Party has helped us fund other things like Fair Day, a Workshop, administration and accounting, ticketing, rents, community disbursements, Festival, Film, Launch, the Guide etc etc etc.

For an annual membership, and the cost of a ticket to two fabulous parties, I reckon we got pretty good value.

And now ? Well I guess we will just have to wait and see - I just can't imaging February in Sydney without Mardi Gras - it will be a lesser place for sure.
Support your Mardi Gras. - Wed 7 Aug 2002 14:17:54

I don't think it is moronic for someone to have a preference for Launch or Festival or even Fair Day - they appeal to a large amount of the members and wider community (more attend these than actually attent either Sleaze or MG Party in fact).
Rational thought please.! - Wed 7 Aug 2002 18:04:04

To a select number of former Presidents, who have enjoyed condemning the inheritors of their electoral, fiscal and monetary policies, we say thank you;

To the former office bearers and Board members, who actively contributed to irresponsible budgets (including the 2002 budget), ignoring the needs for building capital or cash reserves, we say thank you;

To the anonymous contributors on message boards, who have helped undermine, on an internationally accessible scale, the faith in, and support of, our Mardi Gras, we say thank you;

To those mentioned above, but not exclusively, who engaged in petty power politics over the last decade, instead of progressive development and common sense, we say thank you;

And who are we, you may ask?

We are the staff without jobs and income to pay rents and mortgages;

We are the thousands of volunteers who may be robbed of expressing our wares in a safe and free environment;

We are the community who truly care and may have lost our 'child' to those very human dis-eases, power and greed.

To those who have worked around the clock for the last few months (including some more broad-minded former Presidents and Board members) to save Mardi Gras, we honestly thank you for trying. Unfortunately, your fate was decided a very long time ago by the "shadows".

Now watch out for these self appointed gods and goddesses riding in on their white horses bearing gifts.
Damon Hartley - Wed 7 Aug 2002 21:44:08

Alot of people and businesses depended on the work from the parties ie cleaners, sound and lighting crews, caterers, djs, performers, designers etc and the ritual bidding, tender and other submissions was reliably looked forward to despite the difficulties of negotiating the smug attitudes of whomever happened to occupy the desks and board for that year.

To all the off-duty lawyers, wannabe politicians, power-hungry apparatchiks, self-involved know it alls who would condescend to us mere mortals and disregard suggestions, ignore enquiries and act horrified at negotiation and advice, well obviously you didn't know it all and your personal involvment and input (you all know who you are) has driven this special organisation into the ground.

Self-aggrandisment and ivory tower building does not maketh the man (or woman). So for some of the best moments of my life (as well as a healthy profit), thank-you. For the destruction of one of the most progressive and important radical social institutions in Australia, goodnight and goodbye (and don'tbother trying to elect yourselves to the boards of any other institutions as your hands are covered in the blood of SGLMG).
The beat goes on (what have we doneto deserve this) Dusty r.i.p. - Wed 7 Aug 2002 23:19:21

In June 1969, gay men lesbians and transexuals barricaded police inside the bar as a protest against the incessant raiding of lesbian and gay bars by police. The Sydney march, calling for an end to discrimination against homosexuals in employment and housing, an end to police harassment and the repeal of all anti-homosexual laws, almost ended in a riot of its own, when police revoked the march permit and arrested 53 people. Further protests against the reaction resulted in another 100 people being arrested.

The police subsequently dropped all charges laid during the 1978 march and another parade was held at the same time in 1979 and the Mardi Gras name was adopted. The idea of Mardi Gras becoming a celebration during summer was mooted in 1980. In 1981 the Mardi Gras Parade was held in March before a crowd of 5000.

Crowds, and community support have grown steadily since then, reaching over 650,000 in 1996. More than 150 gay and lesbian community groups, as well as many individuals, throw their efforts into creating floats and costumes for the three hour long parade. The emphasis is on celebration, fun, education and politics.

Things that Mardi Gras Ensures:

The World's Greatest Political Parade:
Every year we put on a night time parade of hundreds of floats with around 7000 queers and their friends participating. Each year, around half a million people watch and learn and laugh, and many more, all around the world, watch the broadcasts. With no government funding, it is done with the help of our volunteers and over $300,000 of our own money.

Building A Stronger Community:
Each year, SGLMG's direct grants, Community Development Fund and Public Donations Fund help many smaller community groups, performers and artists. In 2001 alone this support to groups such as Queer Screen and HIV services totalled over $120,000. The Mardi Gras workshop is open to community groups and individuals who need assistance with their floats. Dozens of groups each year get help turning their vision into fabulous reality. The Mardi Gras season gives community groups valuable fundraising opportunities. For instance, the Bobby Goldsmith Foundation raises most of its revenue for supporting people living with HIV/AIDS from its seating at the Parade and Shop Yourself Stupid.

The World's Best Fundraising Parties:
The Mardi Gras and Sleaze parties are our main fundraisers. While ticket numbers have dropped slightly, the quality of the events continue to improve. They remain benchmarks for dance parties all over the world and are always highlights on the international gay and lesbian calendar. Most importantly, they are wonderful celebrations of our community and our identity.

A Truly Gay & Lesbian Festival:
Every year Mardi Gras fosters, funds and promotes gay & lesbian art, performance and culture. Ours is the world's largest queer festival and Mardi Gras maintains a strong commitment to emerging artists, entertainers and performers, through direct funding, and through bringing new art and voices to a wider public.

That We All Have A Voice:
Sydney Gay+Lesbian Mardi Gras is Australia's largest gay and lesbian community group. Every year it provides a platform and a playground where we can all participate, party, be political and be proud.

We all need to ensure that Mardi Gras continues to thrive.
Please support Mardi Gras' future today.
Sanity Check it ... - Thu 8 Aug 2002 11:20:54

I believe we need to create something from the ashes of Mari Gras that is just as radical as homosexuality was 25 years ago. We dared to say then that the opposite (homosexuality) was ok. Will we dare to say something new and just as radical? Or will we just be happy with what we have, melt into the main stream and wilfully oppress other sexual minorities with our new found power and acceptance?
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. - Thu 8 Aug 2002 11:24:40

Times have changed. MG needs to as well. Talking about how fabulous MG was tells me nothing about how MG is going to confront the present and the future.
Reality check it - Thu 8 Aug 2002 15:06:59

I guess what I am saying is that the concept of homosexuality is not very radical now, and hence the parade has lost much of its impact. We do however have a chance to use the parade to push for more social change, social change that is as radical as homosexuality was 25 years ago.
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. - Thu 8 Aug 2002 16:18:11

Are party ticket sales falling or did they artificially peak at an all time high for a couple of years? Is the festival a loss maker or a subsidised venture. Is Parade a cost to Party or Party a fund-raiser for Parade?

More importantly, have we achieved equality, or merely acceptance and some civil rights. Indeed are we accepted or just tolerated?

What difference does it make arguing the silly detail when kids are still comitting suicide, HIV/AIDs is a bigger problem than ever - and dramatically rising in the twenty something age groups via unsafe sex, we have no equality with hetro's on age of consent issues, there are rabid homophobic heads of the main churches with publicly stated agendas to discriminate against us and to treat us as second class citizens at best, and perverts and sex criminals at worst, gay-bashing is rife, hate crimes go unsolved or unpunished or even unnoticed, and all the while you are sitting around bitching about what Mardi Gras has or will do FOR you. What have you ever done to our Mardio Gras? (Apart from buy tickets to events that the volunteer put on for you!)

Sydney needs a reality check, one that involves a giant kick up the arse for the Gay and Lesbian community to make us all value and safeguard what we have and what has been achieved, and to make us realise what is still left undone.

Get real!
A little more bark and a little less bite! - Thu 8 Aug 2002 17:14:51

Are the issues gay marriage and the pink ceiling or are they a little more out there, for example negotiated non-monogamy, how we build "queer" families, gender (transgender and intersex) and so on.....
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. - Thu 8 Aug 2002 17:27:44

ok , i will let the knockers into a little secret , i have been on the committee of many fundraisers,in melbourne,asia, london and the bush over the last 20 years , for organisations like care australia , world vision , bush fire appeals ,desert reclamation, hospitals , liberal party etc etc. i think my worst effort was 20,000 profit to best $560,000 for a hospital in the country.

some of my suggestions might look simple but the simple ones always work, especially if use the 4 keys
1/ people
2/food
3/alchohol
4/music

and i am ceratinly not a smarty pants , just trying to throw some suggestions onto the grafitti wall , so someone in a area of influence might run with them or pick up another idea from the debate against them.
positive change - Thu 8 Aug 2002 20:23:29

And dont think for a moment that commercial interests will bother with a Parade (or that volunteers will give their time to deliver a commercial one).

The community has proved itself to be an economy - will no one stand up and unite this fractious collection of egos.

Does it really matter? Does anyone care other than the half a dozen people that post here, under a collection of tags?
Out and Over. - Fri 9 Aug 2002 08:36:45
There are at least a dozen ISPs used for the messages submitted on this wall. - Panther

>Negotiated non monogamy, are we going to encourage one lifestyle choice as better than another?

I didn’t think that Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade was to promote homosexuality as a BETTER lifestyle choice then others. I thought the parade promoted it as a valid lifestyle choice, one that deserves the same rights and respect as any other sexuality. The same goes with non-monogamous relationships, currently monogamy is the only respected relationship structure, this is reflected in law and social opinions. But monogamy does not represent the very diverse and different relationships many queer (which include gay and lesbian) people are engaged in. Mycle, why should we not be pushing for acceptance of this (queer) lifestyle?

>What I'm saying is in the absence of big unifying issues (and that day is comming) that we all belive in, who decides which issues are more valid than others?

That day is coming for some queers, as they will have gained all their rights. The question is; will those who have gained all the rights THEY WANT get in the way of others seeking rights and respect for their queer lifestyle? Equal age of consent is not something that lesbians need to be too concerned about, but yet they support us men in that cause. I wonder if the same can be said about other queer issues, or has the gay and lesbian community become so main stream that they fear other queer issues just as much as heterosexuals feared homosexuals 25 years ago?

Perhaps we need a new stonewall/gay solidarity day, one that does not include conservative gays and lesbians? What a shame if that is the case, as we would have lost numbers and lost a very important tool in social reform – the Mardi Gras Parade.

>Do we have a parade that promotes all ideas equally weather we agree with them or not. For example a float promoting freedom of immigration followed by a Pim Fonteyn style anti immigration entry?

Immigration is a very topical issue, but however I am unsure how that is related to the way queers live, unless it is dealing with immigration laws in reference to queer partners or queer asylum seekers. The issues that are very much related to why we protested 25 years ago were based around sexuality, gender and our relationships.

The way we love and share our lives together, the way we see ourselves is the unique gift we have to provide this country; this is the legacy that Mardi Gras will be remembered for.
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. (age: 32) - Fri 9 Aug 2002 10:53:20

What do we do today in our lives that could be considered as radical as homosexuality was 25 years ago?

Tell me, these gay men who would support Pim Fonteyn. What are the issues they want the Parade to address, what in there daily lives would be considered radical by the main stream? What are their "queer" issues?
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. - Fri 9 Aug 2002 13:55:11

I guess the answer to that would be yes, the organisation it would seem has had its day. I believe this is a shame as the organisation could have grown and provided even more services and cultural experiences to the thousands and thousands of gay men and lesbians that live in Sydney.

I do however think it is important to separate the organisation from the parade. The Mardi Gras/Pride parade is what is important to queers such as my self, I know hundreds of young people who would love to inject their energy into the parade, creating something that is just as radical as the first parade was 25 years ago. Whether this happens will be up to their elders, who fit in a lot better with the main stream then their young queer counter parts. I guess it comes down to whether these elders feel as though young queers have gone too far, kind of like how the main stream felt about that riot for gay liberation 25 years ago....it really is starting to look like we are going to have to start again, I just wish we didn't.
Remember what happened 25 years ago on our streets. (age: 32) - Fri 9 Aug 2002 14:10:29

15:35 AEST Fri 9 Aug 2002
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/National/story_26932.asp

Mardi Gras given 10 days to stay afloat

Organisers of Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras had about 10 days to
devise a viable proposal to continue running the cash-strapped event,
administrators said after a creditors' meeting.

The meeting was held with administrators Sims Lockwood after the event was
placed in voluntary administration last week with debts of $500,000.

Administrator Alan Topp said Mardi Gras directors had "seven to 10 working
days" to come up with a draft deed of company arrangement, which will be
voted on about August 28 or 29.

[...]
Evil Twin - Fri 9 Aug 2002 16:21:19

I have to ask... Do people realise that moneys ment to go into a trust account to insure the festival was spent on general spending? This information needs a comment from SGLMG.

The administrator also stated that it was possible that the company would be put up for public auction to the higest bidder.
Not happy chap... - Fri 9 Aug 2002 17:29:18

the charities like bobby goldsmith ,etc need the parade , and the festival for vital yearly funding , so it does not matter how cynical we can become and say let it die, we need it for that reason alone, even the cynics would agree.

the administrators haven given the same group of people that made it collapse the power to come up with a solution , remember thay had the answer and would not sign the guarantee form for the loan , shit we are in trouble.

time is running out or run out to organise a fund raiser in sleaze to keep the festival going, so forget about that.

so i think there is only one solution , call a public meeting for the whole community to attend ,forget the discrimination and allow anyone to attend if they have a interest , gay , lesbian , bi straight , trans , family whatever.
elect a sunset committe ( that is a committe with a job to do and it then ends)
to act like a war cabinet .
the sunset commitee then organise some mass fundraising , and put it into a war chest.

the funds can then be used to rescue the present slgmg or fund a new festival , or buy the whole organisation from the adminsitrators, looks like the price is 250,000 ( .30 multiply by 500000 debt = 150,000 and 100,000 for the administrators = 250,0000 )

come on guys , do it for the freinds who need our help.

lets start talking about some action , where to start etc.
- Sat 10 Aug 2002 00:31:00

"HIV/AIDs is a bigger problem than ever - and dramatically rising in the twenty something age groups via unsafe sex"

NCHECR National AIDS Quarterly Surveillance data offers a reality that's pretty much the exact opposite of this. Check it out. www.nchecr.unsw.edu.au It's one thing to have the mainstream media taking a shock/horror beat-up approach, we owe it to each other to be better informed.
- Sat 10 Aug 2002 13:22:49

Howdy folks, I read the star observer on the web, and it looks like there are lots of well connected professional people organising all the things we are talking about on this graffiti wall to preserve a parade and parties for fund raising for charity groups. So no need to repeat their efforts. For my part I will judge who has the best effort and offer my help and assistance.
- Mon 12 Aug 2002 08:52:21

http://www.crikey.com.au/whistleblower/mardigras.html
- Mon 12 Aug 2002 13:20:45

I do not know who the creditors are and what they are owed. Based on gossip I have heard that some employees, the Tax Office , and the Landlord are owed money. No doubt there are other creditors.

What sort of proposal could the Administrator make to creditors? The creditors are looking to get paid back at least part of the debt they are owed. Mardi Gras has no tangible assets. Unlike most businesses the Administrator cannot sell land, or plant and equipment to realize some cash to pay creditors so many cents in the dollar because Mardi Gras does not own any of these things.

The Administrator could sell the name, trademark, logo and goodwill of Mardi Gras. These intangible assets are unlikely to realise very much because they have value only while the company is trading (Mardi Gras shut its doors last week).

It has been suggested that private interests would be prepared to buy the business and goodwill of Mardi Gras and run the dance parties on a commercial basis.

This suggestion only needs some critical analysis to see that it would be unlikely that any business person would pay significant sums for the business. The parties and the parade depend for their success on the support of the gay and lesbian community. Consider just one aspect of the parties. Each year a group of dedicated doctors and nurses give of their time to run a first aid tent at the parties on a volunteer basis. If a commercial promoter had to pay for this service what would it cost (?) - $50,000 - $90,000 or more?

Mardi Gras has also been given special privileges that would unlikely be extended to a commercial promoter. For example special provision was made in the Fox Studio lease ensuring that Mardi Gras could use the pavilions for Sleaze and Mardi Gras. Mardi Gras also has a special liquor license. A commercial promoter would have to factor into the price they were to pay for the business the risk that the loss of these privileges would reduce the profitability of the parties. For example Fox Studio may refuse to make the pavilions available. There is also the considerable risk that a commercial promoter could become the target of open hostility from the gay and lesbian community on the basis that the promoter was profiting from the corpse of Mardi Gras. All these factors, and many others, make it hard for me to see why a private promoter would be interested in buying the business of Mardi Gras.

Some posters to this wall suggested that the Administrator could put on the Sleaze Party. You can dismiss this idea. If the Administrator conducts the business during the Administration he becomes personally liable for the payment of all business expenses. It would be possible for the creditors to allow the Administrator to proceed with holding Sleaze without the Administrator becoming personally liable. But where will the Administrator get the money to fund the party? The Board was unable to raise the funds so why would an Administrator do any better.

The only proposal I can see that may be acceptable to creditors is for another group in the gay and lesbian community to come forward and put on Sleaze. The details of this proposal need to be worked out but it could include a license from the Administrator allowing the group to undertake the Sleaze party. The group would be liable for all expenses. The creditors would want something in return for the license. The pay off to creditors could be that after the group covered all their expenses any profits left over would be paid into a fund and paid out by the Administrator to creditors on a pro rata basis. The group would then be transferred the business undertakings of Mardi Gras including all tangible and intangible assets.

The attraction of this proposals for creditors is that they are likely to get some of their money back whereas if the Sleze party is not held they are unlikely to be paid anything.

The only group I can identify that would be able to carry off such a scheme is Pride. Pride has already said they are not interested in putting on the Sleaze party.

Some people have suggested that there is no reason why members of the gay and lesbian community could not just organise their own sleaze party. If any person in the community was thinking about doing this they should think again. It is probably incumbent on the Administrator to protect the trade mark, logo and goodwill of Mardi Gras. Any person who was playing on the name Mardi Gras would likely be sued by the Administrator. The Administrator may not be able to put on the party but he is unlikely to allow any on else to put on the party unless he has granted that person a license to so do.
wondering - Tue 13 Aug 2002 00:40:32

I think that the greatest threat at the moment is that Mardi Gras ends up in the hands of the private sector. Pride taking on Mardi Gras would be a much better outcome. Anybody know what is happening with that?
Wondering Too - Tue 13 Aug 2002 09:24:39

I am no lawyer, but the word Mardi Gras cannot be trade marked and hence can be used by anyone. In fact the word has been in the dictionary for hundreds of years, check it out here - http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=mardi%20gras

The only trade mark that has protection is "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras". So using Queer Mardi Gras or the Pride Mardi Gras should be absolutely fine. I am unsure about the word "Sleaze", but again it may be fine to use.

Of course most of the value is in the community, who make up the volunteers and attendees at the Parade, Festival and Party. Who ever takes on these roles will need to retain that support.

Any lawyers out there that wish to clarify these points?
Looking to a bright future - Tue 13 Aug 2002 11:10:55

You are correct that the only name registered as a trade mark is Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.

If someone plays on this name or uses a similar name they run the risk of being sued by the Administrator in an action known as Passing Off. This is an action where the Administrator alleges that the person putting on the other party has deliberately exploited confusion in the market place to pass off their dance party as a party put on by Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. If similar names are used this helps the Administrator win the case. The action is available even where the names are different- like the action Pub Squash took against Solo Lemon drink. I do not believe that it would be too difficult for the Administrator to find some party boys who could say they were confused about who was putting on the party. If the Administrator could satisfy the court that the other party promoter had been partly responsible for generating confusion in the market place the Administrator could stop the other party going ahead as well as seek damages for loss of good will.

In my view the use of names such as Queer Mardi Gras or Pride Mardi Gras (as you suggest) probably invites an action for passing off particularly if the parties are held on the same nights Sleaze or Mardi Gras were booked to take place.

In light of these issues I still believe the safest course a business person will take is to either buy the name from the Administrator or put on the parties under license from the Administrator.

As to the poster who suggests that commercial interests would buy the name- I agree with you. It is just that given the problems that a commercial promoter may encounter I do not believe they will pay very much for the names, logo etc, - at least not enough to enable the Administrator to put up a scheme to creditors that creditors are likely to approve.
wondering - Tue 13 Aug 2002 13:25:45

The fact that "Mardi Gras" is used in various business or company names registered on the Australian Business Index misses the point. About 10 years ago before you could register a company or business name you had to reserve the name you proposed to use. The Registrar of Names, during the “reservation period ” would check that the name was not similar to any other name so as to avoid confusion.

When the Federal government introduced the system of Australian Company Numbers (ACN) and Australian Registered Business Numbers (ARBN) the reservation of names was scrapped. The government took the view it was up to individual businesses to prevent confusion in the market place and the government expressly referred to the right of companies to protect their names by bringing Passing Off actions. So there might be many businesses with the word: “Mardi Gras” in their name. These businesses may not trade , or if they do, I suggest that the proprietors of the businesses take care that there is no confusion in the market place between their business and Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.

As for the outcome of Passing Off actions- there have been literally hundreds of cases in which the plaintiff has been successful over the last 10 years. As another poster has pointed out Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras has threatened this type of action itself against other organisations over the years.
Wondering - Tue 13 Aug 2002 17:05:04

I am not sure that I have understood the question you have asked. It is irrelevant in a Passing Off action that the competitor is using the same name as your product. As I have said previously the test is market confusion.

Pub Squash sued Solo because Solo began to use the slogan “ it’s a squash just like the pubs used to make.” Pub Squash said that the slogan was causing market confusion because the public identified the words pub and squash with their product.

It is not necessary that the competitor produces the same product.

MacDonalds sued McWillliams Wines when McWilliams put out a bottle of wine called “Big Mac.” At the time Big Mac was not a registered trade mark of MacDonalds.

It does not matter that Mardi Gras is synonymous with a parade or that the Mardi Gras Parade makes no money. The issue is whether the Mardi Gras parade is an undertaking of SGLMG? If it is then it is an asset of that company and the Administrator is duty bound to protect that asset at least until the creditors have made up their minds.

Perhaps what you are really asking is why would the Administrator care if the gay and lesbian community put on a parade using the name Pride Parade or some other name. I agree that the Administrator is unlikely to care particularly as the parade does not make a profit. On the other hand if a business person had purchased the Mardi Gras name from the Administrator they may care even if they were not interested in putting on a parade. They my bring a Passing Off action.
Still Wondering - Wed 14 Aug 2002 00:58:04

I am quite shocked that you are saying that if the Mardi Gras name is sold, and Sydney's gay community puts on a Gay Pride Parade they are at risk of being sued.

The Solo example you provide is a very interesting. I guess we need to make sure that there is as much differentiation between the "old" Mardi Gras parade and what ever replaces it. It will have to be clear that its purpose is different in some way????

This is all very frightening, to think that the Sydney could lose its right to hold a Gay Pride Parade! I never paid much attention to those that said we are losing the plot with going so commercial, but if this is the end result they were right!
Looking to a bright future (I hope) - Wed 14 Aug 2002 10:31:32

To the poster above Now ornever....comprendez'?: why don't you just ask them? Pride has an e-mail address mail@pridecentre.com.au.
Pride Member - Wed 14 Aug 2002 11:04:10

I agree that differentiation is what is needed. But the best solution is for Pride or some other community group to put up a proposal to the Administrator that enables the use of the name.
wondering - Wed 14 Aug 2002 14:31:23

i agree with what you are proposing - this would in fact be the best possible outcome for all. any thoughts about how to progress this?
wondering too - Wed 14 Aug 2002 15:53:22

But from what you've been saying, doesn't it really depend upon the creditors accepting this proposal? What if they receive a better offer from some commercial operator? Won't they be obliged to accept that offer? Is there any way the creditors can be persuaded to allow the community to keep Mardi Gras, even if it means less money for them in the short term?
- Thu 15 Aug 2002 08:53:05

The technicians scrambling around taylor square....and that gigantic mirror ball. ( i think that should be hung above taylor square fom this moment on as a symbol of MG...... so all who have been within it' rays can remember at least one summer of love)

there is nothing and never will be anything quite like a mardi gras summer month. I just hope the next generation of kids to come along will be able to experience what we have all been fortunate enough to experience.

.......or maybe it was just the weather?
little voice - Thu 15 Aug 2002 09:38:08

to the poster above, i would like to send you my regards for what must be a god-awful situation for you and your fellow workers. unemployment is a horrible reality and i hope that from an employment point of view, something brighter will appear on your horizeon.
- Thu 15 Aug 2002 12:39:41

To the well wisher - thank you very much!
- Thu 15 Aug 2002 13:57:54

Completely agree with you on that one! I would not be opposed to a Pride March / Pride Parade, whatever it is called. Would anybody else be opposed to marching under the Pride banner?
- Thu 15 Aug 2002 15:38:00

"Whither Mardi Gras? With a seeming incapacity to operate, survive and grow as a community business managed with long-term planing, strategic and financial skills, maybe it's time to let Mardi Gras the organisation go. The problem with a silver anniversary is that, unless the silver is well and truly polished beforehand, it can all look a bit tawdry.

If the community wants to continue to claim Sydney as our own in February with all its celebratory, artistic and political power, we should look at investing Pride as the umbrella organisation to make it happen.

Pride has (unlike Mardi Gras), simply got on with being a GLBT organisation that involves the broad BTLG and queer communities. There's none of Mardi Gras' 'above and below the line' (with its attendant lies and denial of the fluidity of sexuality) with Pride membership. Pride, most crucially for organisational and community growth, actively engages young people at event and board level. It has genuine community development as one of its operating principles. In the last two years, Pride has shown its capacity to organise a genuinely community-based festival. For over ten years it has organised fantastic and profit-making dance parties, notwithstanding a falling mirror ball but, hey, don't we all go to dance parties to see stars? It has, unlike Mardi Gras, committed itself to the building of cash reserves and the long-term goal of acquiring real estate.

However it also faces significant, ongoing funding issues from its New Year's Eve dance party income. We can't afford to let both organisations disappear.

Pride, unlike Mardi Gras, has the capacity and will to actively seek government and corporate funding, knowing that some of the best and most subversive theatre pieces and arts festivals in this country are presented by companies that attract such funding.

If the community wants to continue to celebrate our one night of the year in early March, and to enhance the parade as a genuinely political statement, then we must all stand up and be counted - no more so than in the 2003 election year with the opportunity to take it up to the Labor Government for its failure to act on our unfinished agenda, particularly its squeamishness on age of consent. I would gladly do that under the Pride banner.

Murray McLachlan

PS I notice in the list of Mardi Gras' insurance costs (actual and anticipated) in Julie Regan's letter in today's Star there is no reference to workers' compensation. Does anybody know whether Mardi Gras has/had current workers compensation policies for the years shown? If it didn't/hasn't they've broken the law. I'd find it more than a little uncomfortable as a Mardi Gras member and former Mardi Gras President to explain to my work colleagues who make decisions about prosecution of non-complying businesses that an organisation I've been a part of has denied basic workers' rights.
- Thu 15 Aug 2002 19:47:36

I think it is becoming obvious to everyone that Pride is the only organisation that can take over Mardi Gras. The Pride Board is wary. This is commendable . The Pride Board exhibits the caution and business acumen lacking in past SGLMG boards.

The Star confirms that a community meeting has been convened to discuss the future of Mardi Gras. This meeting is to be co-hosted by Pride. I hope that prior to the meeting information is forthcoming about what is the “break even” figure for the Sleaze party. No doubt Pride is worried about the 8 dance parties organised to fund the gay games. They probably fear that these dance parties will dry up the party dollar and that no one will want to go to Sleaze

July Regan is calling for donations from the community to help save the SGLMG. I suggest that instead of donations the following be done. Pride establishes a trust fund and calls for the community to buy tickets to the Sleaze Party. Pride tells the community how much in ticket sales it must receive and by what date to put on Sleaze. If sales reach the break even point then the Pride Board can feel comfortable that they are not taking too great a financial risk in holding Sleaze. The ticket sales are deposited into the trust fund. If sales do not reach the desired target the purchase price of the tickets are refunded. As the sales are paid into a trust fund there can be no suggestion that ticket sales are available to the creditors of Mardi Gras which is a risk if SGLMG (in Administration) holds Sleaze.

At the same time Pride can do the deal with the Administrator that I suggested in an earlier post.
Wondering - Thu 15 Aug 2002 22:06:02

on the other hand things seem to be going well with the recovery in terms of community meetings and fund raising attempts.

even if the present slgmg gang run the event again, at least there will be fund raising for the other groups like bobby goldsmith, the discriminated ones will still stand on the sidelines and support and enjoy , even if are not allowed to be members of the organisation.
Positive change - Fri 16 Aug 2002 06:54:45

Just take a few seconds and think about it.
- Fri 16 Aug 2002 07:07:30

Your idea about tickets is fab except... don't forget Pride will have to pay Fox, production contractors etc NOW if it wants to put the party on and won't be able to wait for ticket money to come in. Also, poor old Pride will have only 6 or 7 weeks to put this event on because Mardi Gras have dilly dallied so much.

Your right about Gay Games impact, it would have been a serious consideration for them and for anybody putting it on. We receive notification from the Presidents that Pride would risk financial ruin if it were to take it on and I agree with the comment that we should not let both organisations go under. Hmmmm... what to do? Let's keep thinking and talking.

The recent postings on this site has been very constructive and very useful. Keep it up everyone.
pride memebr - Fri 16 Aug 2002 07:36:55

Can someone answer this question?
really confused - Fri 16 Aug 2002 08:56:20

pride week was fantastic! lots of good fun and very cheap. the most expensive tghing was aurora (boring) but the other events were around $5, $10, $20 mark. that is what community was supposed to be all along.

so how should we all let pride know about this? anyone got any ideas? should we e-mail them, e-mail the sso? what to do, what to do? maybe we would get the presidents to write again like they did before?
Yes to pride - Fri 16 Aug 2002 09:51:37

pride have certianly emerged strongly over the last couple of years. have done some great work. certainly have a good presence in the Star and was pelased to see their honesty in reporting that times were tough and not leaving it till the last minutes. got my vote too.
Me 2 - Fri 16 Aug 2002 09:54:12

Also, was not the co president of Pride (the organisation) quoted in the straight press as saying that there is probably no need for the parade/festival as we now have such great recognition and rights...not the attitide i would want running my festival/parade.
And to straightboysarecute: there were very good reasons that the MG membership (not the board) decided to have resticted membership/access to tickets. I remember well the days prior to this when a dyke couldn't go to the toilet without being really harrassed by straight men loitering outside gawking at the lesbians. I would hate to see a return to that, plus it would defeat the purpose of having a celebration of OUR community ie GLBT community
And to You've got my vote: I am a lesbian and proud of it. I think it is important that the name 'Gay and Lesbian' or 'GLBT' remains attached to any parade/festival. This is not a celebration of all sexuality, it is about recognition of the GLBT community and a celebration of us. Let everyone else get their own celebration. Any other name dilutes that.
elephants never forget - Fri 16 Aug 2002 12:42:40

to the other posters: please don't think that this is how all lesbians will approach this situation. there are a number of dykes who prefer to support diversity and not just the same old.
Proud but not exclusionary - Fri 16 Aug 2002 13:51:46

The PRIDE Board is trying to keep on top of community opinion at the moment and respond as quickly as we can. Most of the ideas that have been raised in the various forums are being actively examined. PRIDE is only a small organisation and we are doing our best to do what we can, yes we are able to run events, yes we can look to rejigg PRIDE Week for next year. We are concerned about fellow members of our community who are owed salaries or who are creditors of Mardi Gras. PRIDE is working with Mardi Gras and a number of community groups to see if a feasible option can be found that will satisfy both the Administrator and the Creditors.

PRIDE was asked last week by the Administrator, to consider taking on the ‘franchise” arrangement to run the Mardi Gras “Sleaze Ball” this year. The PRIDE Board looked very carefully at the figures and decided that the risk was too great for our organisation to take on at this time. This was based on a high break-even point and the current state of the dance party market and the negative effect of the Gay Games dance parties. It is unfortunate, as we would have very much liked to help those who have already bought tickets and to help out Mardi Gras. However, should any circumstances change PRIDE will be happy to re-examine the decision.

We would like to urge all of you to attend the Community Forum at 2pm, on Saturday, 24 August, at the Seymour Centre (Everest Room), to have your say about what you want the future direction of Mardi Gras to be. We will both be there and would be happy to speak with any of you.

Chris Maynard & Lou-Anne Lind
Co-Presidents
Sydney PRIDE Centre
- Fri 16 Aug 2002 15:29:12

Your posts are timely. They remind us of the many philosophical battles that have been fought in SGLMG over the years. These battles have been important in their own way. But the current financial debacle must cause a reality check.

It was never that SGLMG boards made big decisions that were of themselves irresponsible. It was just that the Boards never understood that all decisions give rise to good and bad consequences. About 80% of good management is simply exploiting to the maximum the good consequences whilst ameliorating the bad consequences that flow from your decisions.

I was present at the meeting that decided to exclude membership to bi-sexuals. It is now forgotten by many that at that meeting the lesbians also wanted to exclude trans-sexuals on the basis that “ they were not real women.” The board dropped that proposition pretty quickly when it became apparent that if the trannies were out- the boys wanted the lesbians out as well. The trannies were saved but the bi’s were excluded. As a result the bi-sexuals formed their own organisation and now have over 1,000 members. They hold their own parties which are raging successes. Good luck to them - you may say. But remember we are told by the poster above that we need six thousand ticket sales to enable Sleaze to break even. The bi-sexuals could probably provide 20% of the target. Can we ignore them? Just what is more important ? Political correctness or the survival of Mardi Gras.

I was at the meeting that decided to restrict ticket sales to members of SGLMG and their friends. As a result membership of SGLMG exploded to 6,000+. But over time it became apparent that the bulk of members were not really interested in the organisation. They were consumers just wanting tickets to the parties. This was not bad in itself. It just meant that a vast amount of time was taken up at meetings with “consumer issues” ( the music was to loud or not loud enough etc) and the majority of the members were not interested in the really important issues that affected SGLMG. Thus, Board elections were won and lost on less than the votes of 20% of the members. It was in the interests of various cliques that this not be changed.

“Coalitionism had its good points. It might have been the case that only 20% of members were lesbian but they definitely did more than 20% of the work. But coalitionism meant that there had to be equal numbers of men and women on the Board. It was not so important what skills you could bring to the Board but whether you had a dick or fanny. In reality after most elections 50% of those elected to the Board resigned from office enabling the small cliques that ran the Boards to put their own people up as replacement directors until the next general meeting.

Sponsorship was great. One year alone almost 1 million was received. But inevitably a certain restraint or self-censorship crept in . “We must not offend the telecasters or the sponsors.”

Over time Boards found some issues to hot to handle. They fudged decisions about the boys own space. They could not pull the curtain down on the loss making festivals. Provided Sleaze made enough to pay for the Mardi Gras party and the Mardi Gras Party made enough to pay for Parade, Festival, Fair and Fortress Erskinville et al.’ all was well. OK some years we cooked the books a little to cover the over-all losses- but it would be made up next year we told ourselves. It never was. Building up tangible assets and cash reserves became impossible in this environment.

Some members tried to bring about change. Possibly the strongest challenge to the cliques was in 1999 when “New Magic” staged a strong campaign for control of the Board. But the culture and the cliques were too well entrenched.

The final reality check hit last month with the appointment of the Administrator. It only needed 1 bad Sleaze and Mardi Gras party to topple the whole thing. We cannot blame July Regan although I am sure that some of the cliques are doing their best to so do. The simple fact is that over 12 years SGLMG squandered over 10 million dollars being the cash invested in loss making ventures together with the accrued losses of those ventures.

So to Elephants Never Forget I say this : our time has past! Yes it may be important to you that “Gay” and “ Lesbian” remain in the name. But frankly we have lost the right to impose these things any more. If we had kept SGLMG alive it would be a different matter. But SGLMG is bankrupt and our ideas and politics are similarly bankrupt. It is now for others to decide the fate of Mardi Gras. You may say that you do not want to participate in a Parade that is open to all sexualities. That is your right. What you and I can no longer do is tell others who are prepared to take on Mardi Gras who they must exclude or include. The final reality check is whether our community wants Mardi Gras to survive. We really need to ponder this point. We have pursued our agendas in Mardi Gras over the years when all the time what we were doing may no longer have been supported by our own community. Rather than dictating conditions is it not time that all of us who have had a part in the debacle adopt some humility and perhaps even apologise.
wondering - Fri 16 Aug 2002 16:19:45

thank you chris and lou-anne for your message. thank you for taking the time to address our issues. i'll certainly be there on the 24th. keep up the great work.
Go Pride - Fri 16 Aug 2002 20:36:54

come on guys where the risk.
positive change - Sat 17 Aug 2002 16:26:39

i think your criticism is a little cynical and i'm sure that MV's statement was just an honest mistake. from my impressions people are looking for a positive outcome from a very negative situation.
- Sun 18 Aug 2002 10:14:16

Yes it's important that the future of Mardi Gras is structured in such a way that will ensure its survival, not just for the next year or two and not just by throwing money at it either. My company Executive Marketing (wholly owned by me) are putting together a proposal to manage Mardi Gras in such a way which will ensure the whole thing continues in a fun, structured and organised manner including good Corporate Governance, that all of the events are managed well and that any profits are secured and returned to Mardi Gras for the purpose of keeping the future of Mardi Gras secure, i.e. to cover the situation where some discounts we have enjoyed in the past start costing us money.

Being part of the community and enjoying all that Sydney has to offer I propose to bring together a committee of motivated individuals with business experience, enthusiasm and talent combined with substantial secure sponsorship whilst ensuring that a superior level of service and organisation is maintained so that our community is served and that there is no doubt that our Mardi Gras will continue without it falling into purely commercial hands. We can combine the two in the right way with the right goals.

It is a sad state of affairs that all of our talent, money and energy that has gone into efforts in the last 25 years has come to this. Mardi Gras 2003 should be the biggest year ever as we have a lot to celebrate - so let's get to it!

We've already started putting in a lot of effort so that we can "hit the ground running" and we're listening to everybody who wants to have a say. We've been communicating to the Executive, Administrators, Sydney Star Observer, potential sponsors and the International Community. We'll be there on the 24th at 2pm at the Seymour Center, Everest Theatre to voice our opinions and what we can offer. We don't have much time and need to get on with the show.

If anyone would like to offer an idea, opinion or other help then please contact me. This is a community event and should remain so with business guidance.

Additionally if anyone has any warehouse space in Sydney please contact me:

Michael Squire
Executive Marketing Pty Ltd
Level 8
307 Pitt Street
Sydney 2000
New South Wales
Australia

Email: projectgroup@optusnet.com.au
Michael Squire - Sun 18 Aug 2002 13:24:38

To Chris Maynard - you seem to have the majority of peoples support even the bi
community is posting here. How many tickets have been sold already to Sleaze. Can the money be transferred to Pride to run Sleaze. Take a gamble, tell everyone there is a deadline or a certain amount of tickets that need to be sold
and urge them to buy to support.

And thanks " Proud but not exclusionary " - glad to see your comment.
So please consider doing Sleaze - Pride Board . P. - Mon 19 Aug 2002 08:24:50

to chris maynard and louanne lind our support goes to you. i would not like to have to make deiciosn you will need to. best of luck and there are those in the community who support what you do. thank goodness the both of you managed to drag pride out of obvilion. i wounder what the situation would look like if you were not here.
party could still go - Mon 19 Aug 2002 09:48:03

Are tickets still available to be bought at Ticketek? if they are we should all start buying them - regardless of whether the party goes on or not - we can always get our money back if there's no party, and at the same time we could make a positive contribution to having the party held and helping out MG.
....and your money back guranteed!!! - Mon 19 Aug 2002 15:02:36
This is the opinion of the poster.

If Pride can make a decision with next week or so get SSO and SX to run ads asking partiers to buy early so they can see if they have got numbers.

But how many tickets have already been sold ?
Show our support - Mon 19 Aug 2002 16:30:53

don't forget, pride isn't mardi gras in terms of size. it's a smaller organisation. one thing pride does have which mardi gras never bothered to do, was have reserves.
pride member - Tue 20 Aug 2002 14:12:16

Happy shopping and hang in there - we'll make it work!
p.s don't know what Ticketek policy is - maybe you could find out and post back.
Michael Squire - Tue 20 Aug 2002 21:42:02
Pinkboard is unable to verify this statement.

That's the kind of spirit we need. Thankyou.
Michael Squire - Tue 20 Aug 2002 21:47:12

With the right financial/organisational mix we can make a go of it. One thing I'm working on now is a way of getting solid numbers of people who want to go.

A web based solution is being developed... stay tuned for more.
Michael Squire - Tue 20 Aug 2002 21:52:53

To Michael Squire - if Pride give Sleaze a go, then my recommendation would be to put an article in the papers saying here's you chance to support etc. I'm fairly certain you will get way more than 6,000. As for the Gay Games as competition - speaking to everyone I know who goes out they are all wanting to
go to Sleaze and will be doing at least one of the Gay Games parties - mostly
the Harbour or Closing Party. They are a month apart and if anyone is gonna miss out its the Clubs as most partyiers go out every couple of weeks anyway and will just factor in Sleaze and Gay Games.
Please consider .P. - Wed 21 Aug 2002 11:31:13

Remember that the members are Mardi Gras, the Board are the ELECTED representatives of the members, and the staff are the employees that were paid to run the day to day operational matters.

So in deciding who to blame - even though that is extremely counter productive - the posters here should look at all of these areas rather than just try and burn a few lesbians at the stake!

WE ARE ALL TO BLAME BECAUSE WE SPENT TOO MUCH TIME BICKERING, BITCHING OR BACKSTABBING to realise what an important community asset we had responsibility to nurture and protect.

Collective community responsibility should come first because before we move on we must all acknowledge that we ALL had a part in the current situation and will seek to aviod the same thing in future.

If any person here can provide me with one reason NOT to spread the blame across all of those areas I will eat Julie Regan!
- Wed 21 Aug 2002 12:09:13

The purpose of Administrations is to give companies suffering financial difficulties the chance to trade out of their problems. The Administration procedure was introduced about 12 years ago and is based on the US model known as Chapter 10. During an administration creditors cannot continue legal proceedings against the company (except with the leave of the Court). What this means is that if a company has winding up proceedings against it or say a sheriff has a writ of execution that is about to be enforced that would allow the sheriff to seize goods of the company and sell them off- those action are frozen during the Administration. The Administration gives the company some breathing space.

Administrations cannot run indefinitely. There are strict time lines that must be followed. The idea is that after a reasonable period the Administrator should be in a position to propose a rescue scheme to creditors. The creditors can agree to the proposal or reject the proposal. There may be a variety of proposals. The creditors might want to discuss possible schemes with other interested parties (the directors of the company or interested third parties). The creditors can elect a committee of creditors for the purpose of these discussions. The members of the committee can report back to creditors, canvass views amongst creditors about different proposals and assist the Administrator.

Usually at the second meeting of creditors the Administrator will propose to creditors the adoption of a scheme ( if such a scheme has emerged from the various discussions). Most schemes put forward have as their fundamental logic the proposition that creditors will get a better outcome by accepting the scheme than by putting the company into liquidation. The Administrator will usually be able to support this proposition by being able to give creditors the likely distribution (usually expressed as x cents in the dollar) if the company were to be liquidated.

As I explained in an earlier post creditors will often want an immediate tax write off for their unpaid accounts and this is often a factor against creditors accepting a scheme. If the company is put into liquidation the creditor will know within several months whether there is likely to be a distribution. If creditors accept a scheme it may take some years for the creditors to know the final outcome and they may not be able to gain a tax write off until they know the outcome.

If a scheme is put up to creditors and is rejected or no scheme is proposed the creditors have the power to resolve that the company be liquidated. Such a resolution automatically liquidates the company and the Administrator becomes the Liquidator. His task then changes from attempting to save the company to winding it up. Winding up simply means that the liquidator sells off all the assets and pays out creditors in accordance with a statutory order of priorities. As I do not know who are the creditors I cannot be specific as to the order in the case of SGLMG. Usually the order is secured creditors, employees and then unsecured creditors.

Once the company is in liquidation it ceases to exist as a legal and business entity.

It is hard to predict all the consequences that will flow if SGLMG is liquidated. For example, all service contracts are terminated. The service agreements on the telephones or the photocopier are cancelled. If it has not already happened- the lease at fortress Erskinville will terminate. In the case of SGLMG some long term arrangements would also disappear. In this regard I am thinking about royalties payable to the company in the future for record sales and film and video footage of past parades and parties.

The Liquidator would probably put up for sale the names, trade marks and logo of Mardi Gras. He would probably do this by having lawyers draw up a contract and then offering them for sale by tender - the highest bidder taking all. I am aware that South Sydney Council has resolved to bid for them. I consider this one of the dumbest things that Council has ever proposed and I am prepared to explain why in another post. But you would be mistaken if you think the Liquidator would sell these things to the Council to keep them in public hands. The Liquidator is an officer of the court who has to act without fear or favour. He will sell to the highest bidder regardless of their identity or whether they are private individuals or public institutions.

The Liquidator is required to investigate any breaches of the Corporations Act by officers of the company. The Liquidator will therefor consider whether the directors have been guilty of insolvent trading. Even if the Liquidator takes no action creditors and in particular the employee have their rights against the Board.

To summarise:

1 If SGLMG goes into liquidation the company ceases to exist.

2 The assets will be sold to the highest bidder without any certainty they will remain inthe hands of the community.

3 The consequences of liquidation on such things as future royalties etc are unknown

4 Inevitably some creditors will be upset when they do not get paid and this will probably be projected onto our community.

5 It is possible, if not probable than former directors will be pursued by the liquidator, the creditors or ex-employees in respect to matters that really all members of the company are responsible. The lack of reserves and tangible assets was raised at most general meetings and the Boards were voted into office by us members without any concern for these issues.
wondering - Wed 21 Aug 2002 15:54:15

What I say is forget all that rubbish and get on with it. Sydney Mardi Gras is now a world event and should be treated as such. I applaud the mainstream media for taking an interest. So what if it gets a little commercialised. As long as we still keep control of it and not think that we can keep it a little pathetic cottage "magic" industry we will keep it going.

Come on everyone it's our 25th Anniversay, don't you think a little silver should be in the wings? And it should be the biggest it has ever been!

Be sure to look at tomorrow's Sydney Star Observer - We're serious about getting this thing flying!
Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 21:57:15

Thanks for your educated comments and what you say is correct as I have direct experience in the process of corporate liquidations and administrations.

We believe that we can focus on the issue and provide a 100 cents in the dollar solution for all creditors. We can do this by providing the right amount of energy and restructuring that is required to ensure that Mardi Gras moves forwards gaining strength each and every year. No stone will be unturned!

The way to do this is to look at the structure and expenses of the organisation and see where we can make gains and reduce expenditure. That may mean outsourcing some or all activities, getting back to a grass roots Board and really examining the whole thing including the building that Mardi Gras is housed in. That doesn't mean getting rid of all the employees in one fell swoop but ensuring that they have every opportunity to contribute either in their existing environment or in a new one.

The other important area is to look at how we can improve the advertising income which will include taking advantage of all facets, some of which have not been thought of yet but which we will reveal in our proposal.

Keep the ideas coming!
Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 22:13:48

SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, AUGUST 21, 2002

(Headline):
Will the last one leaving the Mardi Gras please turn the lights off?

August 21 2002

(Intro paragraph):
The harsh glare of commercialism is killing the magic that made a unique Sydney event, writes Ian Johnson.

(Text):
When the British royal family started to become increasingly accessible to media outlets, critics spoke of lessening the "magic" of the monarchy by "letting the light in". There was perceived to be something intangible, almost mystical, that might be lost by letting the outside world get too close.

The decline of Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras could also have more than a little to do with "letting the light in" too brightly, to shine upon - and in the process diminish - previously unseen magic.

The arrival of large corporate sponsorships during the mid-1990s seemed to change the essence of Mardi Gras. Those attending events which just a year or two earlier seemed to be exclusively "community-based" – almost underground - were seeing large banners for telephone, alcohol and car companies in foyers and flying from every available flagpole.

There was a time in the late '80s and early '90s when the approaching Mardi Gras season filled gays and lesbians with joyful anticipation. People called each other for weeks ahead as they sat at boring office jobs to discuss (yet again) their plans for the parade, the party, what they would wear, when they were meeting, who and where.

It is hard to quantify what made it so special for so many people for so long. Perhaps their first glimpse of the dizzyingly joyful chaos left in the wake of the parade. Or a special "moment" from the dancefloor at a Mardi Gras party: people can still tell you what it felt like to see the 10 Diana Rosses dancing at the 1988 party. Or when Kylie finally proved all those endless party rumours right, and did turn up as "the three o'clock show in the RHI".

However, in the mid-'90s, gays and lesbians found themselves to be "newly discovered" by marketers eager to develop opportunities in a "new" niche market. Many marketers thought one of the easiest ways to appeal to gays and lesbians would be through high-profile branding opportunities. Corporate logos suddenly became "the new normal" at gay and lesbian events.

During 1999 and 2000, our marketing consultancy, Significant Others, undertook a series of focus groups in Sydney and Melbourne as part of our Outlook - Gay and Lesbian Market Report.

This research showed participants were suspicious of the motives of large companies "cashing in", or using Mardi Gras as a vehicle to become better known within the gay community. Mardi Gras was strongly criticised for becoming "too commercialised".

The Mardi Gras organisation was also managing, some would say courting, the increasing interest - and intrusion - of the Australian mainstream media into this most magical of spectacles. Many gay and lesbian participants who had made Mardi Gras what it was were feeling left behind.

The organisation's response was limited to a public reiteration that Mardi Gras represented an ideal sponsorship opportunity for large companies. The "drift" in grassroots support for Mardi Gras seemed to be ignored, despite the decline in ticket sales for previously sold-out, lucrative parties and festival events. But if you lose the support of your constituents, you risk becoming irrelevant to those people to whom you owe your existence.

Recently a 45-year-old wrote on Sydney's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Web site, pinkboard.com.au: "Relying on sponsorship was a key error. I can remember being invited by Telstra to attend the parade in the '90s!"

The irony of receiving an "invitation" from a mainstream telephone company to attend one of the community's "own" events obviously did not in this instance result in the goodwill that the company presumably wanted to achieve.

The future of Mardi Gras is uncertain. The latest moves by South Sydney Council to buy the Mardi Gras name and logo may preserve community ownership. Whether the organisation, its events or its successors can rise to create more "magic" memories among Sydney's lesbian and gay communities remains to be seen. There are a lot of people who hope that it will.

Whether this "magic" can ever truly exist in the harsh glare of high-profile corporate sponsorships is a question that remains to be resolved.

Ian Johnson is the principal consultant at Significant Others, which provides advice to a range of companies and organisations on how best to reach gay and lesbian customers.
Ian Johnson, Significant Others Consulting - Thu 22 Aug 2002 01:23:54

Hmmmm...

"...we're listening to everybody who wants to have a say."...Michael Squire, Executive Marketing Pty Ltd, Sun 18 Aug 2002 13:24:38.
"Thanks for alerting us to the crap Ian Johnson wrote in the Sydney Morning Herald"...Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 21:57:15

Hmmmm...

"Sydney Mardi Gras"...Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 21:57:15

Hmmmm...

"So what if it gets a little commercialised."...Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 21:57:15

Hmmmm...

"Let's face it there is no magic...What I say is forget all that rubbish and get on with it."...Michael Squire - Wed 21 Aug 2002 21:57:15

Hmmmm...
Things that make me go Hmmmm... - Thu 22 Aug 2002 02:28:42

What part don't you understand? Unless you want to lose the whole thing you're going to have to change some things. I'm just as much part of this as you. Are you going to sit there and take it lying down or stand up and fight and be creative. Isn't that what we're good at doing?

It's back to basics - and back to school for most of us!
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 07:05:29

1. Are you a member of any lesbian and gay community organisations? If so, which ones?

2. Have you ever been a Mardi Gras volunteer? If so, in which areas - eg helping with the party bump in, the parade, fair day or in the workshop?

3. Have you ever provided volunteer assistance to any other gay and lesbian community organisations? If so, what kind of assistance and with which organisations?

4. Have you ever been involved in any campaigns for lesbian and gay rights? eg taken part in a protest march, a rally outside parliament house, written letters or sent faxes/emails/postcards to MPs, signed petitions?

5. Been involved in the community's response to HIV/AIDS. If so, what was the nature of your response? CSN volunteer, Ankali volunteer, ACON volunteer, something else?

6. What else can you tell us about your gay and lesbian community involvement?

You may think that these questions are intrusive, impertinent even offensive. I merely ask them because until your appearance on this wall, I had never heard of you or your company. And I have been around the Sydney gay and lesbian community for a long, long time. But that may simply be because you are a quiet achiever who prefers to work unobtrusively behind the scenes. Or you may be someone who has only recently decided to become involved. Whichever is the case, I think the community should know something about you, and what your motives are.

What does concern me is that while you use community rhetoric, you seem to be insensitive/unaware of community sentiment, traditions or processes. Please allay my suspicions.
- Thu 22 Aug 2002 07:55:22

As for Michael Squire! - will he ever post without finishing on an exclamation mark!
"Goodness! Is that a cash cow I see before me!" - Thu 22 Aug 2002 09:43:45

He would appear to be unshackled by the Sydney homopolitics and backward thinking baggage that Mardi Gras seems crippled by in recent years.

It has been refreshing to see someone on this board stand up for a pragmatic and forward looking solution, unconstrained by the old network of usual suspects (be they the hall of infamy or the current admin), the old political crap that IS 25 years out of date, the old ideas, the old constitution of MG (worth a read as it depicts an organisation with rules designed to prevent it ever succeeding in any way at all other than to sustain a network of mates and matesses with snouts in the trough), the same old events that fewer and fewer people want to attend and a long lost core reason for being - to celebrate our sexuality and to defend our rights and to be visible.

I do not agree with all that Mr Squires suggests, but I will be introducing myself to him on Saturday to measure the worth of the man, and his commitment to MG, and to suggest ways I believe that these objectives may be achieved, ways and means that he may not have thought of.

Most importantly I will be seeking out those in the community who want to ensure that MG survives, flourishes and reinvents itself as an organisation relevant to ourselves in the 21st century.

At this stage in the whole sorry mess that MG is in I am astonished that not a single resignation has been tabled within the Board, from the President down the Board and to the CEO. I will be expecting to see some progress in that area on Saturday as well. It is extremely odd that this has not happened already given the events of the past few weeks.

I am not sure handing the organisation to Pride, lock stock and two smoking barrels, is the answer either!
Keep Mardi Gras alive! Say no to Pride merger! - Thu 22 Aug 2002 10:47:51

Michael Squires has also purchased a full page advert in today's SSO (p25). In it he declares "We also monitor comments on www.pinkboard.com.au". Maybe, but he doesn't appear to have done much monitoring so far today. At 7.55am this morning legitimate questions seeking information about his community involvement were posted. They have still not been answered. Until they are answered I suggest we ignore Michael Squires and his "solutions" for Mardi Gras.
- Thu 22 Aug 2002 11:39:05

I have heard of trading in the debts owed by companies (in provisional liquidation?). At what points can this trading occur (anytime?)? Who may purchase debts (anyone?)? Are not the creditors effectively in control until and unless SGLMG can repay 100% of it's debts?

So if some entitity offered (say the ATO) 100 cents in the dollar for
what they are owed, why couldn't/wouldn't they say yes.

Fully privatised (and free of it's "not for profit" consitution)
isn't SGLMG worth much more than it's debts? Aren't we just waiting for some sleazy (in multiple senses) entrepreneur to buy up the corspe? Isn't SGMLG now a liability (in multiple senses) for the community?

Don't get me wrong, I am very sad about all this. Even with all the very many things which SGLMG has done wrong, it has also been great benifit to the broader LBGTQ... community.
Game over? - Thu 22 Aug 2002 11:57:46

There will be a move on Saturday for Pride to take over MG. What astonishes me though is that why hasn't there been a public statement from Pride on this. If MG is truly to be saved, very serious discussion about its future and what sort of MG we want and what we expect from it needs to be had.

I think Gay Games will be in equal crisis. They haven't learned the MG lesson that there is a party culture change away from big 30,000 dance parties. I for one prefer a smaller more intimate group hence I haven't supported a MG party or Sleaze for years.
- Thu 22 Aug 2002 12:48:51
This is the opinion of the poster.

The second thing I want to hear are the words "I hereby resign my position immediately' from Regan (Mardi Gras President), Gardiner (Mardi Gras CEO), Wilson (Board), and any of the remainder of the the incompetant Board that remain today (nobody can actually tell me who they are at present)

And the last thing I want to hear is that SGLMG has become SGLMG+LGBTPRIDE.

Pride are a different organisation, with their own troubled history and should keep their distance from all this.

The members will expect explanations, resignations and swift actions.

The farce of administration must end (just buying time for the sell-out or sell-off) as it has already cost us SLEAZE, and the community members of Mardi Gras should sieze control of it immediately.

Only when that has occurred can we start the process of rebuilding from the derelict ruins the current administration are leaving behind!
GO! Go now! Hand over our Mardi Gras! - Thu 22 Aug 2002 13:59:13
This is the opinion of the poster.

The Name: Almost everyone knows about Mardi Gras. Lots of people know about Sydney Mardi Gras. Not quite as many people know about Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras. With enough work we could have a new name such as Pride or Samedi Gras (Fat Saturday) or the Sexuality Parade or ...

Parade: MG only facilitates this. We can start again as we did almost 25 years ago with a small parade and again build it up. As far as I know much of the work on the parade is done by volunteers. We will loose the lead float created by the workshop. I think it is the parade itself that is important, not the watching crowds or the TV coverage. If we do it right they will follow us.

Parties: We may loose the govenors special licence. We will probably not be able to have such grand parties again for a while. We will still have the community members who have the expertise of putting many of these parties on. There may still be some who will work as volunteers.

Launch: ?

Festival: We can declare February as a month of GLBT events and let the theartes, galleries, etc put on their own events. If SSO or similar publishes a guide then we can all know what is on.

Fair Day: I am sure something can easily be salvaged from this.

Workshop: This will probably be lost. Hopefully they will sell the props to interested MG members.

I do not know whether MG will survive or not. I am trying to determine whether we should be putting in effort and money to maintain the existing organisation, or let it go and start again.
Arti - Thu 22 Aug 2002 14:31:03
Pinkboard is unable to verify this statement.

Resignations, telling pride to stay away, saying the administration process must come to an end (please!) etc are hysterical reactions that will not achieve anything.

Now is a time for reason and clarity and the pinkboard was getting some great feedback before all this destructive business started. The bottom line is this, the Directors though suspended still have to advise the administrator, the CEO thouogh no longer employed is still advising the administrator, the administrator will only receive legitimate business or community proposals which will go to the creditors and ladies and gentlemen, it is the CREDITORS that will make the final decision.

Now is the time to back those who can best support Mardi Gras and ensure that it does not end up in commercial hands. The only groups that can do this now are the community organisations we have left. Mardi Gras members no longer have a say. That is tragic and horrible but it is the REALITY.

Let's look to the future and stop harping on about the past. That's part of the reason why Mardi Gras lost its relevance and this was not helped by a whole bunch of ex-Presidents trying to convince everybody (and guess what it's not working) that they were not to blame. Let's look to the future, there lies the answer to the Mardi Gras problem.
Reality Check - Thu 22 Aug 2002 18:04:24

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. I am part of the community and have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for coming up to eight years. I'm no different from most people out there trying to make a living. I run a number of private companies and

I do not think that your questions are intusive, impertinent or offensive, however I'd prefer it if you had the balls or tits to identify yourself on this board like I have! (another exclamation mark). For all I know I could be talking to a cat! lol

You refer to community sentiment I'll do a Pauline Hanson here - "please explain?" Traditions I have little time for, particularly if they get in the way of progress and running things properly. And what may I ask are the processes?

You might be afraid of having Mardi Gras hijacked by me but that's not the case and I will be there on Saturday to outline what should be done, when and by whom and if you're interested in helping then please identify yourself, you've got all the numbers. We need strong people who know what they are doing and have the bottle to be part of a team who has clear vision and direction.

Sleaze is only 5 weeks away!
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 21:33:44

Thank you for your comments. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on every point but at least we can agree to disagree. At the end of the day at least you'll have the satisfaction of having a dialogue with me which is more than I can say you'll get with the present Board!

Keep going until we get this one solved and I look forward to meeting you on Saturday.
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 22:26:17

Firstly there is no "s" on the end of my name.

Secondly, if you hadn't noticed, the Board are asleep at the wheel!

Thirdly, why don't you call me if you want to know what I have done and where I have come from, you have all the numbers. - I'm a 40 year old gay businessman with international experience in running companies: IT, Computer Investigations, Mystery Shopping and Document Management.

Fourthly - The whole thing is far too big to be run as a church fete! It needs professional management if it is not to go down the toilet again! That can be done without commercialising the whole thing so that it remains in the hands of the community.

Final point: if you think your points are valid, why don't you identify yourself on the board? It's time to be out and proud and have a say!
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 22:36:20
This is the opinion of the poster.

You can't stop progress!
Bill Heslop! - Thu 22 Aug 2002 22:45:39

Do I need to correct the spelling of my surname yet again? Yawn!

At 7.55 am today I was actually doing some work! Where were you? My community involvement or lack of it (like 99% of the rest of the community - come on admit it!) has nothing to do with it. In fact one of the problems, and the reason why Mardi Gras is in the trouble it is in, is because it needs to be run by professionals, people who actually manage things for a living!

Volunteers and people who contribute to the community by giving their time, creativity and energy are needed and are the basis for being able run something like Mardi Gras, however it needs to be spearheaded by a business head. We've been paying Kelly Gardiner over AUD$100K and she has clearly dropped the ball!
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 23:04:19
This is the opinion of the poster.

Thanks for the summaries held in July. That'll help steer us in the right direction at the meeting.
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 23:10:13

I agree!
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 23:16:11

"Processes", in the context of a community of individuals, include respect for others people's differing views, including recognising that a bulletin board like Pinkboard is so successful, and vital to facilitating debate, precisely because it enables people to express themselves honestly and (should they choose) anonymously.

Your bullying attitude seems way out of touch with what one might have hoped to see in a visionary leader able to assist Mardi Gras out of its troubles.

Now Michael, let me see if I get this right -

You have never before this week done anything for the lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender communities of Sydney, other than succesfully manage to stay with your boyfriend for almost eight years (happy anniversary BTW).

You run a number of private companies which, one hopes for your sake, are profitable, so presumably making money for yourself has been a key focus of your life to this point.

According to your remarks in today's SSO, you have a spare $400,000 to assist Mardi Gras with, provided your company, Executive Marketing Pty Ltd (or was it one of the other ones?), gets to 'manage' the event, generously ploughing back profits into the event (which, if you succeed in your current push, you could then own - Gee Michael! thanks for the investment in your own future prosperity) after, of course, the expenses of running the event have been met from the revenues generated. (Presumably your company chooses the 'appropriate' level for your management fee.)

When Mardi Gras was desperately, and very publicly, seeking assistance just a few days ago, you somehow were still invisible in our community, or were unable to offer this money to them at that time, as a loan, so that all this crap could have been completely avoided. (Okay, so the Board may have made some questionable decisions from time to time, but one assumes a man of your business acumen and new found energy for the LGBT communities could have included suitable stipulations, or even sought a special resolution granting you a spot on the Board to protect your investment. At least in the past, members enjoyed the empowerment of a vote at the Annual General Meeting giving them a say in how the organisation was run). Now, when you can use that lovely available money to 'manage' Mardi Gras through one of your number of private companies, you have no problem accessing such funds to invest them in Mardi Gras' future for "all of us".

Your rhetoric is very inclusive: "us", "we", "our", and yet your private company is, as you said on this board: "wholly owned by me", and, as a private company, would never need to publicly disclose its books to the LGBT communities.

You have little time for "traditions", I assume because you are kept fairly busy running a number of private companies.

I think I read somewhere that Mardi Gras was based on tradition.

Does 1978 - as a year - represent anything specific to you?
-----
Wow! Saturday should be amazing, when people get the chance to hear what you have to say. Should be marvellously interesting.
Anonymous tits - Thu 22 Aug 2002 23:26:21

When Ansett went down I received a letter from the Creditors because I had points owing to me. All members are in the same boat. What I can't confirm, right now however is whether you are entitled to go to creditors meetings. I think in the back of my mind the Administrators have the power to select a cut off value otherwise the process would be unmanageable. I'll find out and post back.

The process is a mystery and we should all be better informed.
Michael Squire - Thu 22 Aug 2002 23:38:42

Perhaps you're now trying to make up for lost time. Perhaps you genuinely want to put something back into a community that has given you a good time and has enabled you to make your way in the world as a gay man. That should be welcomed. But sincerity and new-found community commitment is not enough to justify you starting right at the top. Let's not mince words about this. You propose to have yourself appointed Mardi Gras CEO and appoint the board, using nothing more than the power of money. I know you say it will be a "grassroots" board, but how will you select it? After all, you have admitted that you have no experience of the community's grassroots, except perhaps as a consumer.

Perhaps you have some good ideas. Your skills and experience might be useful in helping Mardi Gras recover. Yet some of your comments and your language suggest you have little understanding of what Mardi Gras is really about. Your unsympathetic dismissal of Ian Johnson's use of the word "magic" is a case in point. Mardi Gras is "magic" for many of the lesbians and gay men who put their time, effort, energy and creativity into their parade entries just for the thrill and excitement, pride and recognition that comes from being part of a Mardi Gras Parade. But you've never taken part in a Mardi Gras Parade so you wouldn't really understand this. Mardi Gras is magic for young queers, particularly young queers in the outer suburbs and regional areas, who are coming to terms with their sexuality and for whom the social and cultural space created by Mardi Gras represents hope and opportunity. Mardi Gras is magic for many older homosexuals who have experienced far worse oppression than you've probably ever known and for whom Mardi Gras and the new world which Mardi Gras has helped create represents the realisation of a dream which they never believed possible. But if all Mardi Gras has been to you is the dance parties, you wouldn't understand this.

You acknowledge that 2003 is Mardi Gras' 25th anniversary. Do you have any understanding what it is the 25th anniversary of? Where were you then? I wasn't there, but I will always acknowledge a profound debt to those who were. One thing we know, the first Mardi Gras didn't offer many sponsorship opportunities or involve any commercial deals. Sure, we've moved on from then. But without the activism and personal risk taking of the people who did take part in the first Mardi Gras, and without continued lesbian and gay activism since the first Mardi Gras (in which you have played no part) we would never have moved on. And I doubt that without the changes in attitudes brought about by that activism you would have ever been prepared to put your name to a full page ad in the SSO this week. Yet nothing you have said so far reveals you understand or recognise this.

Perhaps instead of planning to take over Mardi Gras you should do a crash course in what Mardi Gras and the gay and lesbian community is all about. As a starting point I suggest you get hold of Craig Johnston's excellent book, A Sydney Gaze, and read it from cover to cover before tomorrow afternoon. Perhaps you and your partner can read it to each other in bed.
Larry Galbraith - Fri 23 Aug 2002 09:27:30

There still on the board
- Fri 23 Aug 2002 10:02:51

= = = = = = = = = = = =

1. If a company is in financial difficulty, its Directors, a Secured Creditor or the company's Liquidator can put the company under the control of an independent person who is known as the Administrator. It is possible for a
company in Administration to also be placed in Receivership.

3. An Administrator is normally appointed by a company's directors, though sometimes a Liquidator or a Creditor holding security over the whole or substantially the whole of the assets of the company can also make an
appointment.

4. The Administrator is an agent of the company, with all the powers of the company and its directors. The powers of the directors and company officers are
suspended while a company is under Administration.

5. The Administrator is required to hold a first meeting of Creditors within five business days of appointment. The main purpose of this meeting is to allow Creditors to determine whether to appoint a Committee of Creditors and who are to be its members. The primary function of the Committee is to consult with the Administrator about matters relating to the Administration and to receive and
consider reports from the Administrator.

6. Creditors may also at this first meeting, by resolution, remove the Administrator and appoint someone else. To do so, Creditors need to obtain written consent to act from an alternative Administrator, who, if possible, should notify the existing Administrator, at least 24 hours before the meeting, of his/her consent.

7. The initial period for an Administration may run for 28 days or if adjourned to a maximum period of a further 60 days. The Administrator will take control
of the company and its assets, impose a moratorium on the recovery rights of all Unsecured Creditors and certain Secured Creditors, and investigate the
company's situation.

8. If an Administrator decides to continue trading the company during the initial period he/she is personally liable for debts authorised by him/ her if
the debts are unable to be met from the company's assets. Prior to the end of the initial period, the Administrator will convene a "proposal" meeting and
report to creditors. The Report shall contain information about the company's business, property, affairs and financial circumstances and the following 3 options which are available to creditors:
1 End the Administration;
2 Approve a Deed of Company Arrangement through which the company will pay all or part of its debts in full satisfaction during the Administration of the Deed;
3 Wind up the company and appoint a Liquidator.

The Report shall contain the Administrator's opinion on each of the three options and which in his/her opinion is in the best interests of creditors. Creditors are then able to vote on the company's future at this meeting.

To pass one of the three options more than 50% in number of Creditors present at the meeting must vote in favour. Where a poll is demanded a majority in
number and more than 50% in value is requested to pass the Resolution.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Interesting .....

SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

It means, among other things:

If you control more than 50% of the debt owed by the company, then you control the outcome of the creditors meeting.

The Administrator may appoint or replace Directors. Repeat The Administrator may appoint or replace Directors.

The Directors can resign.

The report by the Administrator to the Creditors (due next week - watch the Australian newspaper for an announcement of the meeting) will recommend the best approach, but he can only recommend it the creditors will have to approve it.

A credible alternative to the current plan would need to be either submitted to the Administrator - or alternatively to the majority of creditors in time for the meeting next week to accept (or adjourn to allow more time for an alternative plan to be fleshed out).

Hope this helps.
- Fri 23 Aug 2002 10:03:16

Was Michael Squire, or any person associated with Michael Squire, the unidentified person who offered to lend Mardi Gras $400,000.00 and withdrew at the last minute because members of the Board (quite reasonably) were not prepared to personally guarantee the loan?
Larry Galbraith - Fri 23 Aug 2002 10:52:29

As you know, SGLMG was placed into Voluntary Administration by its Directors on 2 August 2002.

Since this time, we have been working to develop new strategies for ensuring that our events can still take place next year, and hopefully for many years into the future.

There is much to discuss including potential options for the future. We would like to invite our members and the community to come together this weekend for an update on the Administration process and a chance to share your thoughts on future directions.

There will be a Community Forum this Saturday at 2pm in the Everest Theatre at the Seymour Centre, City Road, Chippendale.

If you can't get to the forum, you can still provide your input by letter (PO BOX 557, Newtown, NSW, 2042) or e-mail feedback@mardigras.com.au

Regards
MEMBER SERVICES
Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras

PS - Sorry, we've been trying to send an email to members for days and have technical problems with our bulk email, so we're trying to get this notification out as widely as possible.
Volunteers & staff - Fri 23 Aug 2002 11:41:48

Those that were intending to come on to the Board (or make themselves available for election) should have been required to do their own due diligence on the business plan and provided personal guarantees themselves along with any Board Members who wished to continue. This would have been an interesting exercise as it would have ensured that there was a business plan in place that was workable.

As a consequence the Board would have to have the skills and capability to deliver the organisation back to a stable financial basis the incompetant ones would have gone, and the lender would be satisfied with the money was in good hands.

Oh and Larry - you let us all down by personal attacks and insinuations, not everyone buys in to activism or left wing or right wing politics and not all of us have the time to march and sign petitions and lobby and attend AGM's and public meeti
400
ngs.

But most of us feel very hurt by the way a precious and valued community asset has been flushed down the toilet by bad management (and a few unfortunate events as well!).

We all care for the future of Mardi Gras, Micheal Squires seems to care and Larry Galbraith cares along with the folks that post here. Some contribute and some sit on the sidelines shooting arrows, but the silent majority want a result that ensures the future of Mardi Gras.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day - I hear that handbags will be inspected for bricks at the entrance.
The Board should resign! - Fri 23 Aug 2002 12:17:08
This is the opinion of the poster.

IT's TIME TO GO ..... JULIE REGAN !

Woo hooo !!!
- Fri 23 Aug 2002 12:20:33
This is the opinion of the poster.

I remember another gay man who popped out of nowhere a few years ago to help set up a gay and lesbian media empire and development of a gay and lesbian nursing home to help the community......why does the word Satellite keep popping into my head? He didn't turn out to be such a great businessman despite HIS lack of community involvement
isn't getting burnt once enough - Fri 23 Aug 2002 13:50:04

And why bother doing it at all if it's just about partying and making money for businessmen?

For all the diversity of views, the number of passionate postings on this board suggests that people think it's about more than that.
Still magic - Fri 23 Aug 2002 15:09:16

Also. The constitution requires that at least three directors remain in office at all times, so the entire board is unable to resign.
- Fri 23 Aug 2002 17:12:06

Good points Larry, I tried to contact you today to discuss your ideas and am still waiting for your call! I'm glad you have identified yourself at last. I know who I am and am happy that you know who you are now.

Let me allay your fears.

I am NOT interested in taking over the whole of mardi gras and only believe in good management. My advertisement is a wake up call to everyone out there. If Mardi Gras gets sold off on a commercial basis then we can only blame ourselves.

Your questions were pretty pathetic I have to say and it is clear that you really don't understand where I am coming from.

I am not the $400,000 cash cow who pulled out at the last minute.

You outline in SSO "we first need to understand why we have come so close to losing it." Well that's obvious - the Board were incompetent on a collective basis!

You appear to be stuck in the past with magical notions that are all touchy-feely luvvy duvvy. Well get over it luv - it's 2002 and the struggles of the past are over thanks to all who contributed that. Like the Anzacs they will be remembered and I thank them for what they did.

I have never suggested that I would use the power of money - and I am certainly not using any of mine apart from placing strategic advertisements that have been very effective and have stirred up the whole discussion. What I am offering the community is the balls that are required to ensure that mardi gras continues - because at the moment it is swishing around in the bowl with the half button firmly pressed!

What I am suggesting is that the whole organisation needs restructuring. The cyst needs lancing and we need to start again. However it should be done in such a way as to maximise what the community has to offer. I am part of the community and have certain skills which will assist such a Board. The whole event is now too big to have a bunch of volunteers managing it - that's why it is in the trouble it is in. If I was on the Board I would have looked at the sponsorhip deal and would have contractually secured it so that a sponsor could not pull his or her money out - simple! Of course a new Board would include people like you who have something to say and can articulate themselves in a constructive manner. A Board combined with a variety of talents would be able to achieve a great deal more. Activities such as legal and accounts/audits would be outsourced to professionals - they probably are now but the community doesn't have this information so I cannot confirm this. A shopfront would be opened in Oxford Street, where the centre of the gay community is - not Erskineville. Free warehouse space would be sourced. A number of other activities would be outsourced and a core management team would be maintained. Whether that management team was led by an individual or a company does not matter as long as they all had the skills to get the job done and could ensure that good corporate governance and periodical auditing was being undertaken and advice sought where needed such as in legal matters.

An now my question: You may be an activist but why have you never been President?

Ian Johnson's speil in the Sydney Morning Herald was a trip down memory lane, covered in cotton wool - all warm and touchy-feely. I know we are homosexuals but that doesn't make us all squishy sqashy.

No I wasn't there in 1978, many or most of us weren't. That doesn't mean that we don't care or don't thank those that did what they did. Far from it. I was 16 at the time and had just started my first job. What were you doing? Activism or no activism, I am not a wilting flower and will always put my name to something I believe in, in the papers on annual reports, etc. etc.

Here's a fact - I'll buy you a beer if you can prove me wrong. I'll take a guess that 50% of our gay population (which includes lesbians by the way, (why they have to be called a separate group I'll never know as lesbianism is gayness) transgendersexuals and others, couldn't give a toss about the politics you so cherish. They are out for a good night, to celebrate that we are free thanks to those who marched before us and are tuned into the excitement, the dance parties and having a bloody good time. The time for rhetoric is past. The year is 2002 - get over it, get into it, and get on with it or we'll continue to vacilate in the swamp like the Democrats.

Thank you for referring me to Craig Johnston's book "A Sydney Gaze" however I have not read it. I know exactly what Mardi Gras and the community is all about. That doesn't mean we have to act like a pack of dickheads and put employees rights at risk and mess around with creditors funds does it?
Michael Squire - Fri 23 Aug 2002 23:57:12
This is the opinion of the poster.

What you say about the Directors guarantees is entirely acceptable. There should have been some other appropriate mechanism to deal with this situation. All but one of the Board are volunteers (please correct me if I'm wrong)and it is ludricrous to think that any of them would feel comfortable in guaranteeing a loan of this size.
Michael Squire - Sat 24 Aug 2002 00:10:28
Every member of the board is a volunteer. - Panther

once the next generation sees what is about to happen to these three, you can bet your bottom dolloar that they will pick up thier skirts and head straight back to their utopia parties, gatecraher events or home night club

the next generation seem to have the right idea, forget the labels, forget the nastiness, love who you choose, and party with anyone.
- Sat 24 Aug 2002 08:16:23

Is there or isn't there going to be a Sleaze Ball this year and who will be DJing?
The time has come to live together and be as one... - Sat 24 Aug 2002 09:07:40

One thing to add. I think Louanne Lind has proven herself in her own right as a fine example of quality leadership for the next generation. I wouldn't put her in the same category as the Jones, Baraket, Quan mob but I see what your trying to say.

This is young person who has already proven she's up to the task. Let's hope she gets to enjoy many fruitful years in a leadership role and not be burnt out and cynical before she reaches her next birthday.
the next generation: what Legacy are we leaving them? - Sat 24 Aug 2002 09:14:37

Mardi Gras is about a lot more than money. If you want a job, apply to Mardi Gras. If you want to help, volunteer your services.
Arti - Sat 24 Aug 2002 09:19:19

As you are a complete unknown and the identity of the onanist lender has never been revealed, it was entirely reasonable to ask whether you and the lender were the same person, particularly as you have displayed some onanist tendencies yourself. I am satisfied by your unequivocal denial.

You response to my suggestion that we we need to understand why we have come so close to losing it is simplistic crude reductionism. Simply declaring that the Mardi Gras Board is "incompetent on a collective basis" reveals nothing. If indeed the incompetence of the board is a factor - and it could be - we need to understand the roots of this incompetence. At the community meeting in early June (were you there?) I rejected suggestions that the fault for the crisis rests entirely with the current Board and suggested the causes go back many year and were deep seated, structural and cultural. The formal and informal structures of Mardi Gras determine how the board is selected, Mardi Gras culture has a strong influence on the decisions it makes. If we are to avoid future crises we need to understand and change both structures and culture. You appear to partially acknowledge this by your statement: "What I am suggesting is that the whole organisation needs restructuring." but because you have little understanding of Mardi Gras (for example you appear to be unsure whether board members are volunteers or paid) you can't possibly appreciate the form such restructuring should take.

You question why I have never been Mardi Gras President. There are two reasons:

1. If you know anything about my involvement in the gay and lesbian community you would be aware that my primary role has been as "a simple chronicler of events". From 1980 until the mid-1990s I worked for the gay and lesbian press, partly freelance, with stints as editor/news editor of the SSO, Campaign and OutRage. It would have been a conflict of interest for me to write about/report on boards/committees of which I was a member.

2. I have never been part of the groupings which determine who occupies such positions. You may be aware that I sought election to the Mardi Gras Board in 1999 as part of the "New Magic for Mardi Gras" team. We were unsuccessful. Ironically, some of the policies we campaigned on - eg the establishment of an audit committee, greater openess, transparency and accountability - may have helped avoid the current crisis if they had been implemented.

If you believe "the struggles of the past are over" I suggest that you and your partner walk hand in hand down the main street or through the main shopping mall of Blacktown, Wagga, Penrith, Mount Isa, Whyalla, Cobar, Wilcannia, Moree, Essonden, etc etc and if you make it without experiencing any anti-gay reaction whatsoever, you pause and give each other an affectionate hug and kiss. In fact, I challenge you to do so.

Ok. So you were only 16 in 1978. That means you were in your late teens early 20s in the early 1980s - old enough to take part in the law reform rallies outside parliament house. And if you were still young then, you were in your early/mid-30s in the 1990s - certainly old enough to take part in the rallies and campaigns in support of same sex relationship rights - campaigns which have resulted in rights that you and your partner now enjoy.

Everything you've posted so far reveals a profound lack of understanding of the gay and lesbian community (your failure to understand the need for the word "lesbian" is just one example) and hence your profound unfitness to take control of Mardi Gras.

As for talking to you or meeting you, I would be prepared to do that once you have demonstrated you have begun to acquire this understanding. And a good start would be to have read the book I recommended.
Larry Galbraith - Sat 24 Aug 2002 10:00:35

I agree with other posters, let the next generation make the decisions. As others have said Lou-Anne is a perfect example of someone who can ensure our future growth and success.
- Sat 24 Aug 2002 11:15:52
This is the opinion of the poster.

"I'll take a guess that 50% of our gay population (which includes lesbians by the way, (why they have to be called a separate group I'll never know as lesbianism is gayness) transgendersexuals and others, couldn't give a toss about the politics you so cherish. They are out for a good night, to celebrate that we are free thanks to those who marched before us ..."

you are really assuming far too much, and it's a huge put down to all the people who have worked bloody hard to get those freedoms (and are still working to get more). And as for the lesbian remark, that's showing a remarkable lack of Clue.

See you all at the meeting today ;-)
Evil Twin - Sat 24 Aug 2002 11:22:51

I accept that other groups may feel they have been rendered invisible by this process. I'm not sure however that adopting the word "queer" as an all-inclusive term has achieved a level of acceptance beyond academic and inner-city cultural elites.

I note, incidently, that you have praised Lou-Ann Lind. It is questionable whether we would have the benefit of Lou-Ann's obvious talent and commitment (and for that matter the talent and commitment of Susan Harben, Cath Phillips or Robyn Laverack for example) if we were not prepared to acknowledge the legitimate claims for lesbian visibility.
Larry Galbraith - Sat 24 Aug 2002 12:14:33

Julie Regan stated by giving "sincere and heartfelt apologies" and admitting that "we were wrong" with forecasts made and actions taken. To the people who have been calling for her resignation she said it would be "cowardly to resign" and she had to make sure there was some resolution from the current situation.

Jennifer Wilson then presented some details of the administration. After much prompting the contents of a "Deed of Arrangement" that is being presented to the creditors on the 29th was read out. Basically this involves creating a new company (referred to as XYZ at the meeting) to do essentially what Mardi Gras has been doing and to pay off the debts totalling about $480,000 over the next 3 years at approximately 50c in the dollar.

Many questions were asked of both Jennifer and Julie. Some of the responses were: a McDonalds Mardi Gras parade is unlikely; members have no rights while the company is under administration; a large corporation has offered to sponsor Mardi Gras to the tune of $400,000 over the next 3 years.

Next 2 plans were presented for where we can go now. Pride, ACON, GLRL and Queer Screen had a draft proposal which created an interim organisation to take on the Deed of Arrangement and to run next years parade, etc. There are lots of details of this that still need to be sorted out. Michael Squire then presented his proposal as detailed in the SSO and above.

Discussion on these proposals and other posible actions then proceeded. Richard Cobden proposed that there be no commercial or private purchase of Mardi Gras. If there were then the community should boycott any events by that organisation and effectively destroy the value of the trademarks. Many other speakers agreed with this.

It was also suggested that we abandon the existing company and the debts and start again with a clean slate. We should, however, fund the staff wages and debts owed to any other community enterprise.

The meeting was unable to reach any real resolution on the way forward in the time, but requested that the creditors agree to an adjournement of 1 month so that the community can meet again and see if any consensus can be reached.

Another meeting was called to take place next Saturday at 2pm at MCC in Crystal St Petersham.
Panther - Sat 24 Aug 2002 19:26:11

And following on from your logic, we are missing out on a whole group of talented people who come from the transgendered, bisexual, queer and intersexed communities because they are currently invisible in this "Gay & Lesbian" phase in australian history.
You can't stop progress!! - Sat 24 Aug 2002 20:28:52

Loved Richard Cobden's suggestion that we all boycott any commercially run mardi gras type entity in the event of a liquidation- although I feel such an event would not have had the support of the community anyway. Has anyone considered that we go further on this and, instead of just boycotting whomever buys the trademarks, mermership list etc if the worst happens, there should be a petition/open letter to whomever might be considering purchasing them assuring that they cannot buy the goodwill of the community, and that any property of the mardi gras is worthless in private hands? It was reaffirmed several times at the meeting today that in the event of liquidation, all property will be sold off to the highest bidder. If we can convince commercial interests that it would not be in their best interests to bid, Pride or another appropriate organisation could then swoop in and pay about $5 for the lot. Just a thought.
fountofknowledge - Sat 24 Aug 2002 22:20:33

Michael Squire - I'm torn between embarassment and admiration for the breathtaking combination of naievity, audacity and self belief. Ultimately, however to waste time, so precious a commodity as precious in the context of events as it was at 4.00PM yesterday afternoon borders on criminal. Also, your isolation yesterday was striking, inevitably I'm curious about the visibity of your supporters, friends, sponsors,supporters,partner at an event of such significance. Please find the good grace and realism to recognise defeat and withdraw from further debate.
Active (but low key) Community Member - Lilyfield - Sun 25 Aug 2002 09:13:34

The range of views and quality of the debate was amazing, John Marsden was excellent as was Richard Cobden and all the reps from the community groups and the rank and file membership.

We have asked for more space to examine the situation and come out with the right solution. I hope the momentum continues and we are able to come out of this stronger and prouder and more visible and unified.

There is life in the (25year) ol bitch yet huh!
Is that a community I saw? - Sun 25 Aug 2002 10:29:10

I would have thought that as they could possibly be found legally responsible for this mess, board members could have detailed their proposals for “XYZ” better. Without adequate details of the new proposal it just looks like they are trying to save their own necks.

Also, I just don’t believe that there is this mysterious donator of $400 000 over three years. The Board’s response to questions on why this amount seemed so large compared to other sponsors was evasive and leads me to suspect the worse.

For next week’s meeting I would like to see solid proposals (you know, with dollar figures in it) - perhaps someone could take the trouble to run-up some handouts? It might be worth the board’s, rather than possibly facing prosecution when the company is liquidated.
dave, newtown, - Sun 25 Aug 2002 11:01:27

"Has anyone considered that we go further on this and, instead of just boycotting whomever buys the trademarks, mermership list etc if the worst happens, there should be a petition/open letter to whomever might be considering purchasing them assuring that they cannot buy the goodwill of the community, and that any property of the mardi gras is worthless in private hands?"

Obviously there is much discussion about how to crystallise what happened yesterday and work out how next week's follow-up at the MCC at Petersham can be productive. I assume that the 4 community organizations (what Craig Johnston called "the club") who put out their short discussion paper will take the lead on that, but one thing that I propose to do is to convey what fountofknowledge sets out above in clear terms to the administrator. I think the administrator would then be bound to communicate this to a prospective commercial or private buyer or risk being in breach of the Trade Practices Act.

Perhaps three simple things were particularly irritating (and revealing) about yesterday's meeting.

First, that there was no representative of the Administrator there to hear all this directly. The meeting's views were likely to have (and did have) a profound effect on the value of assets the Administrator is dealing with.

Secondly, that most of the current Board had not read the Administrator’s report. Thanks to Kathy Pavlich, who brought hers along gave it to me at about 2.10 pm, I had a fair grasp of it by 2.30 pm. You can't tell me that sometime between Friday afternoon and Saturday 2.00 pm the Directors couldn’t have at least have had a go at understanding what it said.

Thirdly that the Board/Kelly Gardiner did not have the courtesy – or simple political good sense – to make copies of the outgoing Board’s/Kelly Gardiner’s XYZ Ltd proposal for us all. It was only three pages long. This point is a good illustration why, while having increased respect for Julie for the reasons a number of people articulated (especially staying on to face the music), I have grave doubts about the XYZ proposal. If all the Board members are resigning, who will be the Board of XYZ? Who will run it? Who has done the alleged deals with sponsors and donors (all anonymous again, rather troublingly) that will deliver (a) the $250,000 payable within a matter of a couple of weeks and (b) some working capital? Who will provide the expertise to trade in the way the XYZ proposal asserts will happen - ie supplying further instalments to pay back 50 cents in the dollar of debts that we now know are $900,000+? Inexplicably, the Administrator endorsed this proposal, without knowing these details, in the space of a couple of hours of receiving it - his report says he got it at 12.30 pm on the day of the report.

I hope that the Star will give all these issues intelligent and thorough coverage. They are difficult questions and people have a right to make informed choices.
Richard Cobden - Sun 25 Aug 2002 11:20:41

I have a question which I don't know if was asked nor answered at yesterday's meeting. Should XYZ company get up and running, what will it's constitution be? Will it be the same as the old company or will a new one be drawn up? If so who decides what the new constitution will be? Will it be the members of the old org?

What if the group of community organisations becomes the interim company ie. Pride, QUEERscreen, ACON etc. Will their "consumer groups" be included in the new constitution? eg. Pride is a GLBT org, "QUEER"screen - self explanatory, and ACON caters to bisexual and transgendered people as per their mission statement.

How will all this fit into the new org? ...and probably more importantly will the pple who want a "G+L" only constitution block the new company because it's become inclusive of more than what they can handle.
questions questions questions - Sun 25 Aug 2002 12:16:10

It seems most likely that the creditors' meeting will go ahead on Thursday and the deed will be accepted. It is 50% in number that must accept the deed or if a poll is called then it becomes 50% in value. As the deed gives creditors a "better return" than liquidation and given that the administrator has endorsed the deed, it is most likely that creditors like the ATO will accept it.

So guess MG will at least avoid liquidation.

The new XYZ will however be lumbered with honouring the deed and making future payments to MG's creditors. In certain scenarios (albeit the new organisation being very profitable - but I thought it was meant to be a non-profit organisation !!) the creditors will get full payment of the amounts owing. If I heard right the new organisation would have to come up with $50000 in any case next April.

I wonder who would be willing to act as a director of XYZ. I sure wouldn't !!!
Interesting times ahead - Sun 25 Aug 2002 12:45:31

I agree there are many more questions re this proposed deed of arrangement than there are answers....and it sounds like at least some of the community orgs that put up their hands may have even more questions for the folk that designed the agreement. Why does a new organisation have to start with all those debts hanging over its head? Why can't a new org start with no debts and chase those mysterious sponsors and start a whole new MG event? Isn't this proposal heading down the same path as the old MG
confused and suspicious - Sun 25 Aug 2002 15:45:22

I am sure that many who were at the meeting yesterday would stand behind you in this (even those that find it a unique experience agreeing with you). I for one would be glad sit sit across the table from the Administrators (and anyone else) to achieve a community outcome that matches the expectations of the majority as expressed yesterday.

If so, then how - I firmly believe that the time has come for the responsibilities currently carried by Jennifer Wilson , Kelly Gardiner et al to be handed over to a fresh set of community hands and not necessarily 'the Club'.
Nick - Sun 25 Aug 2002 15:53:36

The advantage of this proposal is mainly for creditors (which include staff members and community businesses and groups) but it also keeps not only Mardi Gras the phenomena but the name/logo and other assets like props in community hands. However, I understand that Board members feel bad about the debts and want these obligations fulfilled but must confess I remain to be convinced that any new org should take on liabilities of this magnitude.

Another big concern is that this assumes sponsorship is in place to make at least the initial payments but it is troubling that the biggest sponsor is not in place yet although discussions are apparently promising.
Kathy Sant - Sun 25 Aug 2002 16:00:28

What commitments have been made to these sponsors and potential sponsors by Mardi Gras but effectively on behalf of XYZ?

What is the real market value of the name and logo?

What should any new org be prepared to pay for name/logo, taking into account its market value but also its much greater value to the community and whatever assets/capital the new org has at its disposal?

How much cheaper might the name and logo be picked up by the coalition of community orgs if the company was liquidated rather than the XYZ option pursued?

Does the XYZ option set in concrete what is being proposed initially as only an interim solution ie will the Board of the new organisation continue to be made up of representatives of the four organisations rather than evolving to an independent membership based org which directly elects the leadership? I don’t know that this has broad support as a long term option.

I don’t think the name and logo have much value outside our community and given a commercial purchaser is likely to be boycotted (and I would extend the boycott to any and every sponsor and any venue that accommodated its events), its hard to see why you would pay good money for it. You may as well try and sell the name Qintex I reckon (but then I’m not a businessperson).

It’s sad to lose MG the org but a tragedy if we lose Mardi Gras the phenomena (Ok I confess I’m ‘still magic’ and I know I should’ve been out getting a life instead of going to yesterday’s meeting). I’m not sure this proposal ensures we don’t lose it again in the next few years due to the level of liabilities carried over and the fact that it seems to leave the new org with insufficient flexibility and may commit the new organisation to doing things much as in the past depending on what commitments have been made to sponsors etc. Worse it may even endanger other important organisations especially the Lobby and Queerscreen that have few resources (although I’m sure they won’t agree unless they can avoid this danger).

We should not support the proposal unless we’re persuaded it’s the best way forward. At this stage I have not been persuaded it would not be better for MG to go into liquidation; the four orgs to buy the name and logo if they can go be got at an affordable price, put on next year’s events regardless, and then probably help set up a new membership based org and donate the name and logo if they own them. I’m still listening though.
Kathy Sant - Sun 25 Aug 2002 16:02:15

MG will live on and the gay community will go on, so lets stop the fighting and let nature take its course.
One Who Cares.. - Sun 25 Aug 2002 17:33:06

1. Mardi Gras has had its day, it's tired, no longer relevant, lost its magic (if it had any) so let it die, and give it the chance to be reborn as something new.

2. If something is to replace/carry on Mardi Gras, why should that something be burdened with the responsibility of paying the debts which MGL incurred.

3. If Mardi Gras is liquidated, a new community organisation could buy MGL's assets, including the name, trademark, goodwill and all the intangibles that go with it, thus keeping Mardi Gras in the community. Moreover it would not be saddled with MGL's debts. This idea appears to be predicated on:

(a) MGL's assets are only of value to the community;

(b) even if there are commercial operators interested in buying Mardi Gras they will pull out once they realise they cannot purchase the community's goodwill and support.

4. If, however, the community is outbid by a commercial operator, we'll boycott the commercial operator and do our own thing under another name anyway.

MGL's liquidation may open up opportunities for the community. While these opportunities may be attractive on the face of it, we also should consider the implications of liquidation.

1. Liquidation may expose individual members of the board to legal action from creditors (including staff) and ASIC. Such a risk cannot be ignored, particularly given the passage of the Administrator's report read by John Marsden at yesterday's meeting. (It is unfortunate that Julie did not disclose the administrator's adverse finding in her speech). While the board may have made mistakes - very serious mistakes - two things must be acknowledged:

(a) The decision making processes which resulted in these mistakes are strongly shaped by the culture and practices of the organisation which has developed over many years. Any recent board could have found itself in this position, and could have easily made the same mistakes.

(b) The board members are all volunteers. They are not paid. They derive no financial benefit from board membership. They were all, I believe, primarily motivated by a commitment to the community and a desire to serve the community. Sure, ego, personal satisfaction etc may also be factors, but their motives are primarily altruistic rather than self-interested.

While legal action against Board members ultimately may be unsuccessful, they (and their partners and families - broadly defined) would nonetheless have to deal with the financial and emotional stress of dealing with such legal action. Their lives (and those of their partners and families) could well be adversely affected for months or more. Is this something that the rest of us could easily dismiss?

We also need to consider whether this eventuality could deter and discourage others from volunteering to serve on community boards.

2. If MCL is liquidated how do we ensure that the staff receive their entitlements? Richard Cobden acknowledged this matter yesterday and suggested a mechanism needed to be found.

3. If MGL is liquidated, MGL's assets are sold to the highest bidder. It is still possible that the highest bidder could be a commercial outfit. Such an outfit may not be deterred by threats of boycotts and community hostility. A commercial outfit may be prepared to protect its purchase by taking legal action against attempts at "passing off", which could include attempts to carry on the Mardi Gras tradition under another name. Such actions may not succeed (especially if the defendants were represented by Mr Cobden of Counsel - pro bono of course), but it could involve those accused of "passing off" being caught up in unwanted litigation for months or more.

4. At the 1995 AGM forum I opposed the then board's draft membership proposal with the statement "A name on a list is on a list forever."

MGL's assets arguably include the membership lists. If this is the case, the lists could be sold and the purchaser could use them for commercial purposes eg renting the lists to businesses wanting to market their products specifically to lesbians and gay men. It is questionable whether privacy legislation could be used to prevent this. It could be argued that individuals freely and voluntarily joined Mardi Gras, and equally freely and voluntarily provided information about their sexuality. While Mardi Gras may not permanently record this information, constitutionally at least, all but a handful of MGL members are gay, lesbian or persons of transgender. Those MGL members who are not gay, lesbian or persons of transgender lied on their membership application/renewal forms. They may yet experience an untintended consequence of their lies.

MGL's liquidation may indeed open up opportunities. It may also lead to minefields which we as a community may have to deal with. I hope I am wrong about what I have suggested above and I would welcome (and indeed be very relieved) if others can prove me wrong.
Larry Galbraith - Sun 25 Aug 2002 22:47:12

I may have for the first time in my life agreed with the sentiment of Richard Cobden on Saturday. But I do not believe he and many like him are going to be too happy about changing the constitutional model from G&L coalitionism to a more inclusive GLBT.

I notice in last weeks SSO that both the bisexuals and trannies have letters which relate to Mardi Gras' future as an inclusive one.

I notice Richard has posted to this board, perhaps he can answer this burning question for all of us now?
nh - Mon 26 Aug 2002 03:22:02

Let's put an end to this nonsense that we can walk away from our debts - we either pay now or we pay later - but we still pay one way or the other.

But i really disagree with your point:
"Those MGL members who are not gay, lesbian or persons of transgender lied on their membership application/renewal forms."

That is NOT the case.

Heterosexual and bisexual people ARE allowed to become members of MGL - they just had to jump through a whole bunch of hoops in order to get there - you were at the EGM - surely you know that.
No liquidation - we need to pay what we owe to others - Mon 26 Aug 2002 07:30:18

There might be some people in our community who think that a business taking over MG is actually good sense, after all that would ensure it's financial viability because it would have professional people doing professional jobs instead of volunteers putting in lots of hard work only to get fried because partygoers didn't like the DJs music or some other insignificant thing like that - not to mention all the infighting in our community!!!

I also can't see a whole bunch of queens not buying tickets to a party that the commercial company might put on. I'm sure they would make the prices much cheaper and have a whole bunch more entertainment and value for money (at least the first couple of years to ensure a reputation of a good party).

The thing we need to think about is: Can you honestly see a significant proportion of our community NOT going to a fabulous party and potentially missing out on being "THERE"??? (especially if you are a younger queer and have never been to a MG party before) Trends are built on what people think that others value, and businesses know this - they are professionals in getting people to do something they might not otherwise do.

I honestly believe that certain segments of our community wouldn't boycott a commercial MG because we are too fickle to give up what might be a good time
just being realistic - Mon 26 Aug 2002 08:38:48

I hate that there a debts owing but for the 'greater good' of the community and the long term survival of MG the event, it may be that we have to let it go and have these communit orgs instead focus on a new org. I agree with Larry G that the liquidation proposes risks, but the greater risk to the community may be in committing to the debt.

Is it possible for the community orgs to re negotiate the XYZ deal ie not to offer such large repayments, perhaps only a fraction of them. Is that option open to negotiation?
ordinary jo - Mon 26 Aug 2002 10:58:32

DEED OF COMPANY ARRANGEMENT

We hereby put forward this letter as the substandard issues of a Deed of Company Arrangement, which I and my fellow board members would like to be submitted to the second meeting of creditors.

Proposed Deed of Company Arrangement

(i) We propose to incorporated a new company (referred to herein as XYZ Limited) which will be a non profit organisation and will ultimately have as its members the same membership of the existing company.

(ii) XYZ Limited has secured promises of funding and based upon these, wishes to purchase the business as a going concern for a total sum $300,000. The sale price is as follows:

§ $204,999 plant and equipment, theatrical supplies, all other items located at 23 Erskinville Road, Erskinville,
§ $ 75,000 Trade Mark for Mardi Gras and Sleaze,
§ $ 20,000 the right to register the business name, Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, and
§ $ 1 Goodwill

As part of the sale price we acknowledge that the balance of the proposal to be detailed below provide for installments over the next thirty six months to ensure a minimum of 50c in the dollar for all creditors which prove in the administration, with the possibility of achieving 100 cents in the dollar return depending on the future profits of the company. Accordingly we propose that until the Deed of Company Arrangement is wholly effectuated i.e. the administrator has received sufficient monies to discharge all creditor liabilities, that the Sale Agreement will provide that the trademark for Mardi Gras and Sleaze will be licensed to XYZ Limited. Accordingly, the dollar value ascribed to the trademarks in the sale document will be paid in conjunction with the final payment to the Deed Administrator.

(iii) The amount of the purchase price to be paid within fourteen days after the creditors resolve to approve the Deed of Company Arrangement: $225,000 (i.e. the purchase price as above, less for the trademarks). In conjunction with this payment we will also pay a first instalment of $25,000 in respect of the Deed of Company Arrangement.

(iv) The amount being offered in satisfaction of creditors claims and the cost of the Deed Administrator (i.e. including trading expenses) will be in the vicinity of $480,000. After the payment of the part purchase price and the first contribution of $25,000 this will leave an estimated $230,000 to be paid to the Deed?s Administrator. We set out hereunder the schedule dates and amounts of the repayments:

§ 15 April 2003 $30,000
§ 15 November 2003 $30,000
§ 15 April 2004 $50,000
§ 15 April 2005 $45,000
§ 15 April 2005 Trade Mark Purchase Price $75,000

In addition to the above payments, we propose to offer additional payment based on the following:
· In 2003, 50% of the profits of the company in excess of $200,000 profit, to a maximum payment of $150,000. Eg: if XYZ returns a profit of $180,000, no additional payment would be made; if XYZ returned a profit of $550,000, then ($550,000 - $200,000 = $350,000 * 50% = $175,000. Therefore the maximum payment of $150,000) would be paid as an additional payment. This amount would be paid on 15 November, 2003.
· In 2004, 50% of the profits of the company in excess of $350,000 calculated in the same manner as above also to a maximum payment of $150,000. This amount would be paid on 15 November, 2004.
· In 2005, 50% of the profits of the profits of the company in excess of $400,000 calculated in the same manner as above, with the maximum amount paid being that sufficient to return 100c in the dollar to all creditors in the company. This amount would be paid on 15 November, 2005.

The Board commits to running the XYZ Ltd in a manner likely to increase the profits and confirms a strong desire to achieve a payment of 100c in the dollar to creditors over the next four years.

(v) The above repayment schedule is based on our forward projections of cash flow and we would like the Deed to incorporate a provision that the above repayment dates have a rectification period of 45 days.

(vi) The directors of XYZ will provide to the Deed Administrator forward cash flows for the next year on 30 September 2002, 15 April 2003, 15 November 2003 and 13 July 2005. The directors will also have the obligation to inform the administrator if there are any material changes to the cash flow that might impact on XYZ?s ability to meet the repayment plan within 10 business days of determining any such material change.

(vii) The Deed Administrator will not have any management function or personal liability during the operation of the Deed of Company Arrangement.

(viii) The order of priority of payments to be made from the Deed of Company Arrangement will be as follows:

(i) The cost and expenses of the Voluntary and Deed Administrator
(ii) The remuneration of the Voluntary Administrator and Deed Administrator
(iii) The order of priorities in accordance of Section 556 of the Corporations Act of if the company was in liquidation and the Deed Administrator was the liquidator.

(ix) Within one month of the Deed of Company Arrangement being signed the Deed Administrator will issue notices to creditors for those creditors to provide Proofs of Debts to admitted as part of the Deed of Company Arrangement.

(x) The above estimate of creditors in the administration assumes that the Sleaze Ball for the 2002 and Mardi Gras in the 2003 year will continue. If the Sleaze Ball for 2002 is not held, the contingent claims will become actual claims with regard to Sydney Gay+Lesbian Mardi Gras. XYZ Ltd undertakes to assume the contingent liabilities related to the presold tickets to the Mardi Gras 2003 party and acknowledges that these specific contingent claims will become actual claims either to the persons who have paid money directly the company or Ticketek in the event that XYZ does not produce a Mardi Gras 2003 party. The estimated contingent claims are Sleaze $73,269.50 and Mardi Gras $85,900.00. The Deed Administrator shall include a provision in any interim distribution for the above amount for Sleaze Ball 2002 and XYZ undertakes responsibility for the contingent liabilities for Mardi Gras 2003.

(xi) The termination date of the Deed will be 30 September 2005.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ends~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jennifer Wilson - Mon 26 Aug 2002 11:08:01

When an enquiry was held in to super reform, everyone said we could not compete with the churches and other anti G/L groups in organising submissions and the time frame was too short to organise people top send stuff in (a couple of weeks as I recall but again my memory is dim....the enquiry received 5 submissions in favour of the bad guys and 1500 from G/L supporters.

So don't doubt your power everyone. MG means more to us than anyone else in the outside world. A boycott is possible and can definitely work..it has before and it will again.

I will now go back to the nursing home and have a nap.
an elephant never forget (But the detail gets murky at my age) - Mon 26 Aug 2002 11:10:41

I fear that if we take the baggage of the old organisation with us we will be stuck with the same old same old. I am not saying that the current situation is all bad, but rather that starting with a clean slate will give us the opportunity to create something better and more relevant.

I fear that the sponsors will require something substantially the same as the current events. I fear that the debts will tie us into making certain amounts of money in the next few years.

I fear that if it doesn't change now it may never change.
Arti - Mon 26 Aug 2002 11:12:15

My post was not meant to suggest I opposed liquidation. It may prove to be the only possible outcome. It may well be that entering into a Deed of Company Arrangement may impose unreasonable and oppressive conditions upon our community infrastructure and organisations. My post was intended to point out some possible adverse consequences of MGL being liquidated. Whatever decision the creditors make (and it is their decision) is going to have undesirable consequences. The community may or may not be able influence that decision by its willingness or refusal to support the Deed proposal. Ultimately this may mean choosing between the lesser of two evils. We cannot possibly decide which is the lesser of two evils without first thinking through the consequences of each.

With regard to your comments on the MGL membership issue, I acknowledge bisexuals and heterosexuals if the MGL board agrees. I am not aware of how many members fall into this group. It has however long been suspected that people who were not gay, lesbian or transgender ticked one of those boxes to join and thus be able to buy party tickets. Those members lied.

Nigel (MGL member) - Mon 26 Aug 2002 09:35:11 -

1. Most boards have been shy about giving information. It is one of the more unfortunate aspects of the MGL organisational culture.

2. I acknowledge that the MGL board incurred the debts. If they acted irresponsibly (and that is yet to be determined) we need to ask ourselves whether such actions were entirely autonomous, or whether their actions were shaped by the MGL organisational culture and their attempts to meet community expectations - a culture and set of expectations which has developed over several years. If it's the latter, then we as a community should accept some responsibility for this.

3. Your post suggests ways in which potential litigation could be dealt with. It doesn't suggest ways potential litigation may be avoided. Litigation costs money, time and energy and creates stress, anxiety and tension. The longer it's drawn out, the more money, time and energy. Knowing you will eventually win (or believing you will) doesn't necessarily help you avoid or deal with the stress and anxiety. Just ask John Marsden. We need to ask ourselves whether we are prepared to risk subjecting community members (MGL board members and potential defendants in a "passing off" action) to this. If we can do this, and our consciences are clear, fine. But we need to be sure that they will be.

4. The issue around the potential commercial use of the membership lists cannot be reduced to junk mail in letterboxes. Many people joined MGL believing (perhaps naively) that their membership details would be kept confidential, and MGL has done very little to disabuse members of that belief. New Magic discovered this when we used the membership lists quite legitimately to contact MGL members to seek their support. I still recall a conversation with one member who was quite vehement about his privacy being compromised. You may not be concerned about the potential use of the MGL lists. But can you be sure about the other 6,000 MGL members?

I agree that it is essential that we need to be sure that the board (and other parties) are providing us with all the information. At a minimum, the following should be available ASAP on the Mardi Gras website and at next Saturday's meeting:

1. The Sims-Lockwood Report to creditors

2. The Board's proposal for a Deed of Company Arrangement

3. An outline of how the schedule of payments is to be met ie revenue sources, proposed budgeting etc

4. The names of organisations prepared to enter into the formation of XYZ, together with the financial commitments they are prepared/able to make and how they propose funding those financial commitments.

5. The number (and where possible the names) of commercial organisations who have so far expressed interest in purchasing MGL in the event that it is liquidated. We need this information to be sure that the threat of a commercial takeover is real and not simply a boggart.

6. The price that such commercial organisations are likely to pay for MGL and/or its assets.

It would also be helpful if we had some indication from legal practitioners whether they are prepared to at pro bono for community members who may be subject to litigation resulting directly or indirectly from MGL being liquidated and/or the community seeking to continue the Mardi Gras tradition.
Larry Galbraith - Mon 26 Aug 2002 12:14:15

(a) first, the costs, charges and expenses of the winding up, including
the taxed costs of an applicant payable under section 466, the
remuneration of the liquidator and the costs of any audit carried out
under section 539;

(b) if the winding up was preceded by the appointment of a provisional
liquidator-next, the costs, charges and expenses properly and
reasonably incurred by the provisional liquidator during the period of
his or her appointment and the remuneration of the provisional
liquidator;

(c) where the winding up commences within 2 months after the end of a
period of official management of the company-next, the costs, charges
and expenses of and incidental to the official management properly and
reasonably incurred by the official manager during the period of
official management, including the remuneration of the official
manager, of any deputy official manager and of any auditor appointed
in accordance with Part 3.7;

(d) where the winding up commences within 2 months after the end of a
period of official management of the company-next, debts of the
company properly and reasonably incurred by the official manager in
the conduct by him or her of the business of the company during the
period of official management;

(e) next, wages in respect of services rendered to the company by
employees before the relevant date, but not exceeding $2,000 in
respect of an excluded employee of the company;

(f) next, all amounts due in respect of injury compensation, being
compensation the liability for which arose before the relevant date;

(g) next, all amounts due:

(i) on or before the relevant date;

(ii) by virtue of an industrial instrument;

(iii) to, or in respect of, employees of the company; and

(iv) in respect of leave of absence;
but not exceeding $1,500 in respect of an excluded employee of the company;

(h) next, retrenchment payments payable to employees of the company (other
than excluded employees of the company);

(j) next, any amount that, pursuant to an order under section 91 of the
Commission Act, the company was at the relevant date under an
obligation to pay.

It should be noted that the administrator is the first cab off the rank. Perhaps we should be told what he is charging.
- Mon 26 Aug 2002 12:25:11

I wonder if their stand has changed? Or do they support what other NO voters were saying at the time? The below is quoted from the SGLMG Graffiti Wall 12 - http://www.pinkboard.com.au/graffitiarchive/sglmg/SGLMG12.html

"complain complain complain !!!!......If you feel MG hasnt done all it should for you ....dont support it...dont renew membership or better still cancel it...dont attend any MG function...including MG dance parties..Boycott make a stand.. But some how i feel that the majority of those who are pissed off with MG wont be willing to make that sort of sacrifice..... Will you?????....
Choice Made (Voted no and ratified) - Thu May 11 23:39:39 2000"

Choice Made, guess what!! Many did make the "sacrifice", many bisexuals and queers boycotted Mardi Gras events, while many community connected heterosexuals felt no longer welcome, after all if bisexuals are not welcome heterosexuals certainly are not. It can be argued that if it were not for the NO voters Mardi Gras may not be in this situation.
I hope history isn't repeated - Mon 26 Aug 2002 12:28:25

panther@pinkboard.com.au