It's less that a week till the Festival
starts and in 4 weeks time I will be at the Parade
and Party.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the issue of membership has not gone away (though rumour has it a certain person may have). So lets see if we can have an adult debate without calling each other names. I will restart the debate by posing some questions. Despite my stated opinions I will try to remain impartial and "chair" the debate. Troublemakers will be ejected.
On one side we hear that bisexuals should be excluded from SGLMG. What is the reason for the exclusion? Originally it seemed to be about party tickets. Is this still the reason?
On the other side bisexuals are claiming that they are part of the gay and lesbian community and should therefore be treated with as much respect as other members of our community. This brings up the question of what community is served by SGLMG. Discuss.
It's like that old joke about how you see someone across a bar (usually the newtown) and you think, now that's either a good looking guy or an ugly woman, and I'll only be attracted to them if they are male, makes the whole notion of sexuality very confusing.
Perhaps it's as lot of psych academics are saying. We place labels on ourselves and then shape our behaviour around in order to fit to that label (ie. I'm gay, therefore I'm only attracted to men).
Tue Feb 8 16:11:03 2000
We must assume that: a) David is placing his political career on the line by this move because if it is defeated there will be blood-letting: or b) David will take the 'fall' for the motion to be defeated if people like Richard and/or Larry speak against it.
Which will it be? Can someone ask Richard and/or Larry to publicly state where they stand on the proposed amendment? The current statement by the President has diffused the debate and avoided any ugly scenes at the Launch this Friday but is it a smoke-screen or real?
Most of all, congratulations to Ilana Kaplin for getting the debate to this progressive stage. Let's hope the President's speech writer doesn't miss the opportunity to make the point loud and clear on Friday night at the Opera House. What better place for Mardi Gras to show the world its own level of tolerance.
Tue Feb 8 17:15:18 2000
Thank you for describing the real situation so clearly. It is astonishing the number of "totally gay" men who have genuine feelings (sexually) towards women. Their desire to be accepted into their social scene (gay) for whatever reason means that often quite serious compromises are made - more than likely very unhealthy ones at that.
What is the difference between a 'straight' man allowing himself the pleasure of men after years of marraige, kids etc.; and a gay man finding the opposite after many years.
the relationship should be about the soul ans sensuality, not the gentalia
Tue Feb 8 17:20:12 2000
This is the opinion of the poster.
|InSanity| back to me
|InSanity| so anyhow
|InSanity| i found mardi gras tickets
|InSanity| $200 each
|InSanity| *sigh*
|puckme| lucky you
* phuckme has mardi gras tickets for sale
|puckme| i have 3 and a friend of mine has 6
|puckme| how much will u pay?
*** dude69 has joined #gaywogs
|Iotakis20| does it have to be in cash?
|InSanity| $150
|puckme| lotakis- how else will you pay?
|puckme| dont be silly insanity
|InSanity| i need 3 more
|puckme| i will mention it to my friend
|InSanity| okies will pay up to hmm
|InSanity| considering its not for me
|InSanity| $130
|InSanity| howz that
|puckme| Insanity ok
|puckme| wow
|puckme| lets have an auction
|InSanity| wow?
|InSanity| well anything less than 200 they will be happy cause thats what they are going to pay with this other guy
|InSanity| there is this guy at work and he is trying to sell 2 of this for $500 each :(
|puckme| guys --- if you cant get tickets just go to the party and by them there
*** Mathias has joined #gaywogs
|puckme| many people just sell them for face value
|InSanity| i have tix
|InSanity| but these others dont
|puckme| ok
|InSanity| i am making them all become members this year
|InSanity| i have signed all their application formsall their application forms
Does anyone know if motions can be brought up during or just before an AGM or EGM, so that the block proxy votes don't count?
So how many dance parties are they up to now?? MG party, Harbour Cruise, Arrivals... the list goes on. The only "party" that didn't go off was the Right Lobby party. How typical that the one party that'll make the most difference in our lives is the people didn't support because they "couldn't afford to go to another $50 party".
Community radio station my arse! Many of the female presenters are lesbophobic gay party boy fag hags pretending to be dykes.
I have said it time and again, we are facing a resurgence of the Christian right in Australia. We need to get together and fight this bigotry immediately, and what I mean about getting together is sorting out the membership mess we have, all they need is an issue like this to really attack us.
A straight friend of mine who watched the parade was really disappointed that their wasn't so many dancing boys this year, he likes them for visual reasons (I'm pretty sure). The parade is already the biggest event for Sydney, even bigger then NYE, so I think we have some room to present things the way we want, and if that means a few less marching boys and more images of us as we look in our place of work etc. then I say that's a good thing. Let's not loose focus on what the parade is all about, and it is not all about entertaining Sydney for free, the entertainment part is what we use to gain focus on our issues.
The parade evolved into a party at a time when the gay community needed to celebrate once a year because of all the great loss that was happening all year round. Thankfully those times have now subsided. Now it is also time for the parade to evolve again to fit the times. And let me tell you what these times are. This is not a time of prosperity, despite the millions that MG brings into the economy. We are in the middle of the reign of this conservative government, the churches have renewed their attacks on us, and things will get worse in that respect before they get better. That is why the parade needs to evolve, to meet the challenges of this time.
And no-one said anything about there being too many white guys. I said too many "marching boys" - doesn't matter what color they are, there are too many marching boy floats. It seems that being a "marching boy" is now a gayboy rite of passage, as stupid as any heterosexual rite of passage.
And you are right, it is up to us, the community, to change the focus of the parade. That is why you haven't seen anyone criticising the board for the direction that the parade has taken.
This Friday, 17/3/00, is the closing date for submissions to the Australian
Broadcasting Authority in relation to the granting of fulltime radio licenses to community radio stations. A license to a gay and lesbian station is not assured. It is hoped that the Authority will grant a license to a gay and lesbian alitionist radio station in Sydney and ask that you write a letter of support to the Authority to help guide their decision to award a license to your favourite gay and lesbian radio tation. It doesn't have to be a long letter but try to cover the following areas: * Community Statements going to the existence of a 'G&L Community' in Sydney. (ie. "In my opinion there is a large community of G & L, transgender and queer identifying people living and working in Sydney. Having been a resident of Darlinghurst/Newtown/Sydney/ innerwest/etc for xx years, I have personal experience with... etc.) * Community of Interest Statements going to the parameters of the interests of the Sydney 'G&L Community'. We must establish to the ABA's satisfaction that a Lesbian, Gay, queer transgender and Bisexual community exists and that it has specific and diverse needs in regards to health, support, quality,education, cultural community etc which legitimately need to be addressed. * Community Radio Station that services community interest. Discuss how community radio services the needs of our communities. * Viability of community radio as a permanent broadcaster. Discuss why you believe that a oalitionist gay and lesbian community radio is viable on a ermanent basis. Licensing Section Australian Broadcasting Authority PO Box Q500 Queen Victoria Building NSW 1230 Thanks GLRL Even though the email doesn't specifically say so, clearly the Lobby want us to back Out FM as most of the arguments don't apply to Free. The question is, as a permanent community radio station is so important to our community's growth and development, why doesn't Mardi Gras get behind the Lobby's campaign? After all Mardi Gras' emailing list much be much much larger than the Lobby's small list. It's time it was put to good use. Over to you, David McLachlan. Show us that your not only a jock, you're a radio jock.
urging me to make a submission to the
This part of someone's message explains exactly why the wall was deleted. No more discussion on this topic on this wall. You had your chance. - Panther
Key result 1. The best events of lesbian and gay cultural expression and celebration. Outcome 1.1 Integrated Mardi Gras Season of high standard is produced each year. Outcome 1.2 Produce an annual Parade which maintains historical integrity, contemporary relevance and high creative standards. Outcome 1.3 Create and maintain a high uality internationally renown gay & lesbian Festival. Outcome 1.4 Produce the best Party events of lesbian and gay elebration while maintaining core fundraising objectives. Key result 2. Events that culturally and financially support the Mardi Gras season. Outcome 2.1. Special events that promote the Mardi Gras season are produced. Outcome 2.2. Produce an annual Sleaze Ball Party as a high quality event of gay and lesbian celebration, while maintaining core fundraising objectives. Key result 3. The financial viability of Mardi Gras is consistent with our vision and commitments. Outcome 3.1 Financial viability is assured. Outcome 3.2 The economic base of the organisation is broadened to increase sustainability. Outcome 3.3 Intellectual Property rights on Mardi Gras events and merchandise are protected. Key result 4. Mardi Gras continues to represent the diverse lesbian and gay communities in its events and in the organisation. Outcome 4.1 The diverse lesbian and gay ommunities are active and valued in Mardi Gras. Key result 5. Governance structures and policies in place to ensure best practice events management and community participation. Outcome 5.1 An active and involved embership is nurtured and valued. Outcome 5.2 Efficient, effective and accountable management systems are established. Outcome 5.3 Proactive planning processes and information systems are established. Outcome 5.4 Efficient and fair management of human resources is established. Outcome 5.5 Appropriate physical infrastructure and premises are found. Outcome 5.6 Effective communications systems are established. Key result 6. Increased visibility, community pride and equality for lesbians and gay men. Outcome 6.1 Mardi Grasís resources and expertise are used effectively in developing the gay and lesbian communities. Outcome 6.2 Mardi Gras appropriately supports the political activity of the lesbian and gay communities.
Why no recognition for Transgender members, surely they could do with some visibility and community pride.
Rights rally, price free - 2,000 people
And just because we have a MG here and progressive laws as well doesn't mean that one caused the other. Don't confuse correlation with causality (1st yr science!). There are plenty of places in the world where they don't have parades with plenty of progressive laws and lots of places where they do have parades but the laws are up the creek. And lots of places where they have neither. The two things don't necessarily go together.
Rights rally, price free - 2,000 people
The facts speak for themselves - Wed Mar 22 21:41:48 2000
These facts still stand. Can you imagine what kind of progressive laws we'd have if those 18,000 missing people turned up to the rallies?? It's not about whether to party or not, it's about giving back to the community that supports you and your lifestyle. 18,000 people aren't giving back in ways that count.
If you don't like them, do what I do. Sell them fake drugs!!! They don't realise the difference and I get rich!!
You have no idea how f*cking insulting and bigoted your comment of 'make a decision' is! You cannot help being attracted to men, Bisexuals cannot help being attracted to both sexes! Do you think you have a right to tell people who they can be attracted to, but no one can tell you not to be attracted to men. Fred Nile tells you not to be attracted to men, so we all think he is evil and wrong, but when you say to Bisexuals that they are not allowed to be attracted to both sexes, you think that is perfectly fine.....I really hope you have enough brains to see how stupid and bigoted your comments are! Oh yes, I'm really sure you were berated by a straight couple in the RHI at a Mardi Gras party for kissing! Perhaps by 5am your brain was complete mush from all the drugs you had taken and it was all just an hallucination. And why wouldn't this be true, Bisexuals in your little dream world seem to be able to choose who they are attracted to, possibly you hallucinated this little 'fact' also.
You see how silly your separatist homosexual purity argument is! What next? a test to insure that no Gay men or Lesbians are having opposite sex attraction, we could show opposite sex porn and make sure that no gay boy has any sign of arousal, if they do they are permanently kicked out of Mardi Gras and the Gay and Lesbian community. Would you agree with this? Or do you only have problems with Bisexuals when they are out and proud? If they are closeted and oppressed then they are absolutely fine with you? How do you know that one of your Gay identifying friends is not a closeted Bisexual constantly hiding his opposite sex attraction?
Wed Feb 9 19:02:13 2000
Yeah, yeah, people are selling their tickets to the highest bidder, it's nothing we didn't already know.
Wed Feb 9 19:48:14 2000
Tue Feb 8 17:15:18 2000 - What makes you think the motion will be defeated if Larry and Richard speak against it? And what makes you think David doesn't write his own speeches?
Thu Feb 10 11:33:43 2000
Very few constitutional changes pass when the establishment doesn't support the changes. Just look at the Republic/Howard affair last year. Now I'm not saying that Larry or Richard are the ones really in charge of MG (I didn't post the original post btw) but it has been rumored for a long, long time that this is the case, and if it is true then what they think will count for alot - and possibly decide the outcome.
Thu Feb 10 13:04:45 2000
How are the proxies that will be handed to the Secretary before the meeting going to vote? One person claims he has a up to 200 of them each time around. 200 people voting in a block will effect any outcome as 75% of membership need to vote for change, for it to occur. The best chance we have for change will be by organising an EGM, and not voting on it during the AGM. My thinking behind this is that it will be harder for these individuals with block votes to actually organise for an EGM, as their proxy voters may start getting annoyed if bothered more then 1 time a year. Then again, if these individuals use their block to vote for bi inclusion it could help push a yes vote over the line, but I'm not holding my breath for this to occur.
Fri Feb 11 12:24:39 2000
Do proxy's count with EGMs? And if so how much notice is needed before an EGM is held? I too think that it will be a tough battle to get this motion passed despite the President's support of it.
Fri Feb 11 12:30:00 2000
I think Larry might actual be for inclusions, or at the very least indifferent. As for Richard, I don't have a clue, and would be quite interested in hearing his opinion. Congratulations to David for taking a stand on the issue, if successful, history will remember him in a positive light. After all no one is celebrated because they enforced the current rules, it is those that are brave enough to stand up and fight for what they believe is right.
Fri Feb 11 12:32:08 2000
Their are 2 different types of proxy votes are there not? There is the regular one in which a person can bring one proxy with them on the day, they then vote for them selves and the proxy, giving them 2 votes all up. Then there are the proxies that the secretary holds, these are usually given to the secretary before the AGM/EGM starts, they already have voted on the motions that have been published. It is the second ones, I would consider to hold more weight, as they have usually been organised by a couple of individuals, i.e. an individual may have many votes, and up to 200 if the previous poster is correct. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing :-)
democracy hypocrisy - Fri Feb 11 12:43:32 2000
Fri Feb 11 12:32:08 2000 - What makes you think that Larry might be for inclusion?
Sat Feb 12 10:37:33 2000
We all now Larry reads this board, so how about we let him speak for him self. Larry?????????
Sat Feb 12 12:46:52 2000
Larry may be more motivated by taking the opposite position to David then actually spending energy forming an opinion. Kind of how Beazley always takes the opposite stand to Howard, with out a second thought on the issue. Personally I find this party politics way of doing things in a community organisation rather sad. I hope to be proven wrong.
Sat Feb 12 13:13:56 2000
Sat Feb 12 13:13:56 2000 - I can see how larry and beazley might be similar, but you're not suggesting david's like john howard are you?
Sat Feb 12 16:46:52 2000
nah, Dickie is though!!
Sat Feb 12 16:57:46 2000
Well deflected shots at the launch don't you think. Yes David, we already knew that MG value should be measured by more than just economic impact.
Sat Feb 12 20:45:58 2000
Here`s an idea that you will hate - Pro rata representation on a new board - This would probably give at least one seat to a bisexual, one to a tranny. And return several seats back to men.
Future options can be reality! - Sun Feb 13 10:07:42 2000
who cares what richard and larry think.Its up to us the members to decide if bis will be above the line and by now most people think of richard and larry as a bit of a sideshow to spice up the otherwise boring meetings.Cant really imagine anyone publicly speaking against bis being accepted into mardi gras
stan - Mon Feb 14 3:11:53 2000
As it has been said again and again, what the "establishment" think (whether it be the Federal Government, the church, your family or the MG board) counts for alot. They aren't the "establishment" because only a few people agree with them ie. They got there because alot of people see them as best representing their interests, so they will vote/support the ideas of the establishment in order to keep them in power and so do the best job for them, it's a two way street.
Mon Feb 14 12:29:58 2000
Pro rata representation would be great! Hopefully this'll mean we only get one or two party boys on the board this time.
Mon Feb 14 12:36:37 2000
Isn't it interesting this debate seems to be dominated by men?
JC - Mon Feb 14 14:06:28 2000
...Then join in...
MG - Mon Feb 14 18:00:29 2000
What does pro-rata mean in this case? Representation on the board according to how many members there are of each sexual orientation?
Mon Feb 14 23:32:36 2000
If that is the case, then Gay men would likely end up with 3/4 of the board positions and Lesbians would end up with 1/4. Pro-rata would mean no Bisexual or Transgender people would get a board position, as Bisexual membership is low due to the fact that in recent years those who identify as such have been refused membership, and obviously there is not all that many Transgender people in comparison to Gay men and Lesbians. Pro-rata board representation does nothing to correct inequalities, in fact it helps enforce them.
Tue Feb 15 0:05:28 2000
Yep. Sounds like more party-boy misogyny to me. Happy Mardi Gras.
Tue Feb 15 2:55:38 2000
Tue Feb 15 0:05:28 2000 - There's an obvious answer to your paranoia. Get more dykes to join Mardi Gras, so there is gender parity within the membership, and not just on the Board.
Tue Feb 15 11:34:42 2000
May be more Dykes will join since Mardi Gras is looking after them this year with the "Celebration of the Female Voice"
Tue Feb 15 12:04:42 2000
Which is the point....if 3/4 of the board were men, then you can imagine there would be no chance of this event being staged by Mardi Gras, which would further lead to even less Dyke members, which under pro-rata would give even more board positions to men, which would cause even less events for women, which would cause less Dyke members and so on and so on.......
Tue Feb 15 12:09:14 2000
Frankly, I'm quite suprised that this analysis of power dynamics and equality has to be explained to you boys........then again I shouldn't be, look at how bisexuals are treated.
Tue Feb 15 12:15:20 2000
But is there a reason why lesbians aren't wanting to become a part of MG despite all the effort to increase their numbers? Maybe they just don't want to be a part of MG.
Tue Feb 15 14:43:55 2000
Or maybe there are less lesbians than gay men in the world. So what. It's not as if the Mardi Gras festival, and certainly the parties, are weighted in their favour or anything.
Tue Feb 15 14:53:48 2000
What efforts? This year does seem to be different, so I think it will be a wait and see, previous years attempts did not contain a great deal of thought about what dykes actually want.
Tue Feb 15 15:00:57 2000
What about the women only spaces at the parties that have been around for alot longer than the men only spaces. I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but trying to look at the reality without any bias. Look at the number of dance parties put on during the festival, I'm no party boy and yet somehow these events are supposedly aimed at me. All the gay boys have been generalised as party boys despite the reality of the situation.
Tue Feb 15 15:32:48 2000
Most/Many dykes are not into dance parties, so setting up a women's only tent is not really going to do much at all. The new event "celebration of the female voice" is what many dykes are into, this should increase lesbian membership in the next few years. I agree also that many gay men are not party boys or don't enjoy dance parties, but there is a very large number that do.
Tue Feb 15 15:52:57 2000
Maybe if MG stopped putting so many bl**dy stupid dance parties on then the proportions of partyboys vs the rest of us would change.
Tue Feb 15 16:15:43 2000
there were no pecs, arses or big dicks in the ad for the Rights Lobby party. what do you expect?
Tue Feb 15 17:53:28 2000
People to go simply because it is a good cause that'll help us all out in the long run. Is that too much to ask from this community?
Wed Feb 16 6:54:39 2000
yes
Wed Feb 16 8:04:34 2000
So much for solidarity.
Wed Feb 16 8:32:30 2000
$50 is too much when there is so much else to do during the festival.
Wed Feb 16 9:11:33 2000
Don't you pay $90 for the MG party? And don't you pay $50 for Arrivals? and $50 for the Harbour Party??? Or is the Right Lobby party just not popular enough? Weren't there enough people in line for the rude and inconsiderate people jump in front of?? And don't most people pay well more than $50 for their extra-ciricular recreational enhancers throughout the festival?
I'm glad our community has it's priorities sorted - (sarcasm, for people not quick on the uptake) - Wed Feb 16 15:52:29 2000
My opinion is that each event takes time to develop, Rights Lobby should of started small with the post launch party then got bigger as it became more popular.
Wed Feb 16 16:50:03 2000
Maybe people don't want to support the losers that run the rights lobby!
part - e boy - Thu Feb 17 12:56:49 2000
At least Free fm wanted to give us a free (excuse the pun) dance party at fair day.
part - e boy - Thu Feb 17 12:58:18 2000
Free to be.....a misogynist, moron, hypocrite, self interested user and abuser of the Gay and Lesbian community.
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 13:26:46 2000
Let me see, how many times have I heard an announcer/dj/stupid drag queen on Free FM say the word Fish to describe women.......hmmmm at 4 times......I don't listen any more.
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 13:34:58 2000
communit - e boy has a show on Out (of it) FM - nice to bitch about the opposition !
part - e boy - Thu Feb 17 15:04:34 2000
I don't have a show on Out FM, I just realise that their is more to our community then dance parties, drugs and drag queens. Not that I'm against any of these things, in fact I love partying on e, and watching a quality drag show with some political commentary. I just think it is the height of arrogance and stupidity for Free FM to say they represent the Gay and Lesbian community, they only represent one small part of it. And just because I am a part of this small section, doesn't mean that I should support the exclusion or use of everyone else for my selfish agenda.
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 15:15:51 2000
and what is Free's selfish agenda?
Thu Feb 17 15:22:18 2000
Free FM's Agenda: To continue to promote one small groups social and economic agenda, at the expense of all other groups within the same community (that they pretent to represent). i.e. To insure those with power (anglo men) stay in power.......and to help them and their friends feed their egos and make a buck out of all of us.
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 15:41:11 2000
To put it simply, I have female friends, both straight and dykes, so to support Free would be an insult to every one of them.
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 15:54:56 2000
I thought it was to support sales of Euro-trance and hi nrg dance fluff licensed to Central Station Records.
Thu Feb 17 15:56:17 2000
so no women (dykes or str8) or non anglo men work at free then...are you really saying this communit-e boy.
Thu Feb 17 15:58:49 2000
surely they are volunteers anyway? If there's no women or non anglos maybe they just don't get involved. Isn't this the same problem with Mardi Gras - that only white anglo (aka party) boys get off their arse. Just a thought.
Thu Feb 17 16:02:58 2000
Go on show your ignorance and lack of understanding of minority groups and oppression. Sorry being Gay alone doesn't necessarily teach you a thing about these issues.
Thu Feb 17 16:09:19 2000
Of course there are women and non-Anglo men volunteering at Free, and they do it for different reasons, such as a chance to gain experience etc. The questions are:- who is in charge, who benefits from Free, what is Free's agenda, why are they pretending to represent a community they do not? And anyway, some Asians have been known to be involved with One Nation, that doesn't mean One Nation is any less racist, does it? (no, I'm not saying that Free FM is like One Nation, this is just a comparison to explain my point that having women working at Free does not make them any less misogynist, nor does having Asian's make them any less Anglo-centric).
communit - e boy - Thu Feb 17 16:20:08 2000
Over to you Free - we're waiting.
Thu Feb 17 16:24:13 2000
and that was a sponsorship advert from out fm
Thu Feb 17 16:26:48 2000
Is that the best you can do Free?
Thu Feb 17 16:37:01 2000
why not just name the directors alphabetically?
Thu Feb 17 18:47:35 2000
That's a little better, but you might do better by actually presenting an argument.
Thu Feb 17 23:42:28 2000
We're all over stupid dance music. Please move on.
Fri Feb 18 8:41:41 2000
The only way diversity is going to be reflected on radio is to have more than one 'gay and lesbian' oriented station. Stop pulling each other down and work to your already small but defined markets
Fri Feb 18 10:15:02 2000
Diversity is reflected on Out FM. Dykes, party boys, queer news, sport and music music music - loads of different music. plus all the goings on for Mardi Gras. Whereas Free: well its 24 hours Central Staion Records with the occasional drag queen thrown in. That's not diverse its boring.
Radio head - Fri Feb 18 10:50:19 2000
out, isn't is Bev Lange FM?
Fri Feb 18 11:27:40 2000
There can be only one.....and may be neither. Given a choice Out covers a lot more ground then Free.....those are the facts.
Fri Feb 18 13:23:10 2000
Fri Feb 18 10:15:02 2000 - Small but defined markets??? What are you talking about, Out and Free are going for a community licence not a commercial one, which means that the winner will need to include the true diversity of the community they say they represent. Out is the only station that attempts to include all parts of our wonderfully diverse community. The use of the word 'markets' is quiet appropriate when it comes to Free, as their model is based around offering 'products' that are aimed square at a 'niche market', which 'advertisers' find desirable. Free and Wild are pretty much the same when it comes to this commercial/advertiser based model. What any of this has to do with a community radio station is anyone's guess.
communit - e boy - Fri Feb 18 14:31:37 2000
aren't free/wild/groove fm are the same thing anyway? Same discs just different robots.
Mr ABA - Fri Feb 18 15:21:45 2000
Free fm best represent the community. they have the best shows, presenters (male & women), great Cds and wicked parties. Out (of It) FM has no members. Free has the most.
part - e boy - Fri Feb 18 15:31:44 2000
I hope all you supporters of whichever station have shown your support by actually becoming a member. Both stations need members and financial support if they are to have any chance of getting a license. P.S. I love Alex and Jack.
Fri Feb 18 18:18:52 2000
To but in (this is the first time I have ever read this board) and bring this conversation back to the direct issue at hand re: radio stations (Fair Day, for those of you who forgot)...
Would someone explain to me why it is that aside the Festival of the Female Voice concert tomorrow night (which is, as we all know - a first!), you want a dance/party element to *every* *single* *minute* aspect of the festival? There is, in fact, (if you forget your ego and look about our community) a very large portion of our community who do not want to party all day & all night for a month during Mardi Gras - and why should we? Not all of us 'enhance' ourselves that much.
Why can we not keep Fair Day as it was always intended? A day to relax & spend with your family & friends; check out some stalls & find out what is about in our community, watch some live performances from bands & other performers, maybe go for a swim, and just have a casual, laid back, relaxed day. **Without** the constant & repetitive thudding of a dance tent nearby!
I'll admit, I am a young dyke who enjoys the occassional all nighter & I love dance music - in the right place at the right time. Fair Day 2000 this Sunday is **not** the right place, nor the right time.
I am looking forward to a Fair Day without a dance tent from either Free or Out.
I wish you all a Happy & Safe Mardi Gras 2000!
L'Dyke - Fri Feb 18 22:53:02 2000
P.S.
This whole "Your message was rejected because there was too much yelling" is crap.
L'Dyke - Fri Feb 18 22:53:56 2000
I think the young dyke has a valid point
Fri Feb 18 23:11:49 2000
And her post reflects what alot of people are thinking. There are enough dance parties happening to keep all the party boys and girls happy. How about leaving Fair Day for the rest of us.
Sat Feb 19 0:18:38 2000
i understand the fair day/free FM issue was decided by the fair day committee which consists of a diverse representative group from our community and as a representative group they have the right to decide what sort of event fair day is and this right should not be taken over by a self interested group which has by its own admission no concept of what fair day means to so many of the 60000 people from our community that attend this unique event
when they show the same committment to our community that this committee has i might start to take them seriously
cowboy - Sat Feb 19 1:46:51 2000
Offensive message deleted.
This is not the first time that Free FM and Mardi Gras have had disargeed. In the past there have been dance tents. Why did MG choose this year to reject the application. Why has MG rejected other applications by Free? Is it really on the merits, or is it something else? This is not about a dance tent, it is about politics.
Sat Feb 19 8:53:59 2000
Everything is political if you want to go that far.
Sat Feb 19 15:06:33 2000
Speaking Politically - Will Mardi-gras ever take a strong stand while disregarding political correctness?
Sat Feb 19 16:41:37 2000
a stong stand on WHAT while disregarding political correctness?
Sat Feb 19 17:52:37 2000
How many issues do gay and lesbians HAVE!
Sat Feb 19 19:08:26 2000
Can we please move on from stupid Free FM. They only represent the dance party members of our community which by the way MG also greatly support with all dance parties that are held during the Festival. Free FM get over it.
Sun Feb 20 2:24:19 2000
Lots. We're an issues based economy.
Sun Feb 20 11:29:25 2000
Well, I just got home from a dance tent free Fair Day, and I hope you all had as fantastic a day as I had!
I am afriad to say, I don't recall there ever having being a dance tent at Fair Day, The Telstra tent last year was not a dance tent. I know a whole lot of people keep refering to it as a dance tent, but it was a tent with promotional things inside which just happened to have loud, dance-ish music. By the way, that tent was apparently very expensive to do & I hope Free FM wouldn't be stupid enough to waste so much of their members money on something like that. I personally thought today was ab-so-loot-lee fantastic. What did you all think?
L'Dyke - Sun Feb 20 23:00:03 2000
Fair day was as always a real community event and I loved it
Ran into eveybody I know and a few I would like to know.
And its free.Congratulations to Ms Kaplin and her committee who were everywhere on the day and despite looking tired and exhausted were pleasant and efficient.It has to be the biggest fair day ever.
Sun Feb 20 23:40:49 2000
80,0000 at Fair Day say Out FM News.
Mon Feb 21 23:22:56 2000
Mon Feb 21 23:22:56 2000 - If that's what they're claiming, Out are not just Out, they are way out!
Tue Feb 22 8:30:37 2000
Out FM News quoted Ilana - its news doll not gossip.
Big Bert - Tue Feb 22 8:43:33 2000
At any large events, police tend to underestimate crowds and organisers tend to over estimate. The truth usually lies somewhere in between. I think that 50,000 people at Fair Day is a fair estimation. But that would include straight people who just wondered in not knowing it was a GLBT event. One of the problems with the events being held at Victoria Park (along with the traffic noise). Maybe a change of venue is in order for Fair Day as well. Centennial Park maybe?
Tue Feb 22 9:02:10 2000
What happened to the rides at Fair Day? I missed them. Was it just that there was no room with all the product-selling stalls or am I the only one that thinks Fair Day is more than having products marketed to you and people waving buckets in your face asking for change?
Tue Feb 22 11:06:24 2000
I knew there was something missing from Fair Day. But I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I completely forgot that there used to be rides.
Tue Feb 22 11:25:07 2000
Keep Fair Day in the inner west - there's enough going on in the eastern burbs already.
Tue Feb 22 11:55:19 2000
Move it back to Glebe I reckon. At least we had the water there for abit of a cool down instead of parramatta road smog.
Tue Feb 22 12:14:16 2000
Tue Feb 22 12:14:16 2000 - Great idea, then all the yachties can bring in their boats again, and have their exclusive on board parties.
Tue Feb 22 14:10:20 2000
what about the North Shore - how about a Mardi Gras beach day at Balmoral?
Is the north really a Mardi Gras free zone?
Shore Boy - Tue Feb 22 19:50:24 2000
hey wasn't fair day great and no free fm dance tent either - even better.
Tue Feb 22 20:12:26 2000
Bronte would be a great place for a beach day.
Tue Feb 22 20:14:40 2000
Bronte, yes what a buzz. And perhaps Leo could M.C. the whole day.
Tue Feb 22 22:33:25 2000
I think there was a problem with the rides with the hole construction thing going on right now. Where the hell would the rides go at Victoria Park without the cement grounding now? They'd ruin the park!
I think maybe it needs to be moved to a bigger area, but it would be great to keep it out west a little.
I don't think that 80 000 was an underestimation at all! Last year police were saying 60 at any one time with about 80 actually going thru the park. I think that 80 is more than reasonable! The park was packed!
L'Dyke! - Wed Feb 23 0:51:13 2000
How about Bondi Beach. I heard that Gay Games are planning a party there for 2002 so it would be good preparation.
Bondi Boy - Wed Feb 23 15:38:18 2000
Actually Bondi Beach would be great for the launch - more room than at the Opera House but just as much an icon.
Bondi Boy - Wed Feb 23 15:39:38 2000
Would the Fair Day/Free-FM debacle have anything to do with the fact that the former president of MG is now Pres of Out-FM compteting for the same community licences?
Cynic - Wed Feb 23 19:27:54 2000
Cynic - Wed Feb 23 19:27:54 2000 - Nah! How could you suggest such a thing. That's virtually suggesting our great community organisations are being run by a mates club, and that couldn't possibly be true.
Wed Feb 23 20:12:12 2000
Maybe we are all just sick of stupid dance music being everything the gay community is about.
Wed Feb 23 20:50:45 2000
Well said. I for one sure am. I know that there is a hell of alot more than dance music to myself, my friends & our community! It's not all we are, and it doesn't need to be everywhere we are.
L'Dyke! - Wed Feb 23 23:33:13 2000
Wed Feb 23 20:50:45 2000 - But isn't it??
Thu Feb 24 7:16:54 2000
I've just seen the front page article in the Sydney Morning Herald, so I'm trying to pre-empt those who will link the condemnation by the Bishops of Mardi Gras with belief in God generally. You *don't* have to go along with what the Bishops say if you believe. God does not judge, Christ does not judge. As Gays and Lesbians, we are all wonderful beings in God's eyes, made just the way we should be. We are who we are, and that's fine. Ignore the Bishops and ignore their critics, as they are two sides of the same coin. Let's just get on with the celebration, with joy in our hearts.
Free Spirit - Thu Feb 24 9:40:33 2000
Cynic - we're sick of Free representing us as just a bunch of dance party queens that's the point. I love dance music & Im a queen but there is more to our communities than this. Fair Day is an alternative to the many dance events on during Mardi Gras. Listen to the alternative _ Out FM - yeh they have dance music too but also other types of music (scarey I know!) but also queer news, sport, tranny shows, quizzes, talkback. Out FM is part of the community, Free is out of touch.
Out Fan - Thu Feb 24 10:44:00 2000
Ignore the Bishops don't react. They are entitled to their opinion. I think religion sux and they think we queers sux. Live and let live, no one is forced to agree. Show them tolerance and compassion. Ignore them. Enjoy Mardi Gras and celebrate our strength in diversity.
Not Bothered - Thu Feb 24 11:30:20 2000
Not bothered - You should be. These people are the ones who help shape the nation's law and morality. This is a backward step for us all. Watch how not a single politician will speak out against the bishops' statement and label it for what it is - archaic and completely out of place with the laws of our nation. They will stay silent because deep down they still think that we "aren't worth it". I feel most sorry for all our younger brothers and sisters who are still in school and still have to face the taunts and lies of homophobes without any help from the people who should be protecting them.
Outraged - Thu Feb 24 13:47:32 2000
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0002/24/pageone/pageone3.html - here is the link.
Atheist Left - Thu Feb 24 15:38:43 2000
Yeah, right. Christians are the defenders of the bisexuals .....
Thu Feb 24 16:43:46 2000
The Christians sort out their own membership messes by creating new Churches (not the buildings). Let's show we are better than that!
Panther - Thu Feb 24 21:15:30 2000
Thu Feb 24 16:43:46 2000 - No. Christians are just looking for any excuse to treat us as second class citizens. And until this membership issue (along with the general gay and lesbian community's attitude) is cleared up, I for one, will think that they will have a valid excuse to deny us the rights we are asking for.
Thu Feb 24 23:53:12 2000
Has anyone see The Eye - "Exposed: Where the Mardi Gras Millions Have Gone"?
Fri Feb 25 0:11:30 2000
What ya talkin' about Willis?
Fri Feb 25 0:28:01 2000
I think everyone is missing the obvious....If our enemies are joining forces in an attempt to defeat/harm us, then why are we not trying to increase our numbers by joining forces with our allies, and what better allies then bisexuals? After all they do f*ck and love people of the same sex also.
yes, this is like war. - Fri Feb 25 0:58:21 2000
Mardi Gras should reveal which politicians, celebrities and other public figures have accepted the invitation to watch the parade in the VIP viewing room. They should also release the names of all those politicians etc who actually turn up. Clearly, if they do so, they are ignoring the Bishops' call to boycott Mardi Gras, and that in itself should speak volumes.
Fri Feb 25 7:14:58 2000
Doing this would also show which politicians have the guts to go against the Bishops, and which ones are wusses. All that's needed are two media releases, one stating "As of 24 February, the following had accepted Mardi Gras' invitation to watch the parade from the VIP viewing room ...", then another one issued straight after the parade, listing who turned up and who didn't.
Fri Feb 25 7:18:08 2000
Alternatively, we should revive an idea Richard Cobden had some years ago, but was never actioned. All the VIPs should be conveyed to the viewing room in open cars which are slowly driven up Oxford St. There may be some practical considerations, but it's worth thinking about.
Fri Feb 25 7:20:24 2000
Loved David McLachlan's comments on the news on Out FM. These bishops really are taking us back to the homophobia of the 1950s & sixties.
Altar Boy - Fri Feb 25 11:54:35 2000
Well we know how Catholic the ALP right are, ask Bob Carr for HIS opinion.
Fri Feb 25 16:14:00 2000
If you look back over all the Mardi Gras we've had you'll see the church & god fearing folk do this every year, it's the same shit, just another year, as I've said before theres no such thing as bad press
Tiger - Fri Feb 25 18:34:54 2000
The Out/Free FM debate has been moved to it's own wall.
Tiger - In the past we've only had religious fringes and loons (ie. Fred Nile) that have condemned MG. But now these two are from more mainstream churches who have alot of say in the policies of both State and Federal governments (on both sides). Their condemnation will have major repercussions as politicians try to keep voters satisfied. We should be extremely worried about this turn of events. You can bet that this isn't the end of the matter from the churches point of view. Don't forget that we are still in the middle of the reign of a very conservative federal government. Things will get worse before they get better.
Sat Feb 26 22:08:00 2000
The Catholic and Anglican Churches are starting to feel confident in expressing their hate, I feel this is due to Howard and his government, don't forget both these Churches were give a large some of the money for employment services, that have publically stated that they will hire Christians only. Yes, things are only going to get worse, and I feel it is a real mistake to think this is just another Fred Nile situation.
Sat Feb 26 23:15:42 2000
Fot the most part the Anglican Church does not hate. Archbishop Peter Carnley, now the head of the church in Oz, hails from Perth and has openly supported law reform and anti-discrimination legislation in WA. The Catholic bastards are quite another matter and the best way to kick them in the balls is to constantly bring up the fact that they not only harbour but protect paedophiles. Hope we see some real satire from the Sisters in this parade, instead of the ridiculous drag they've adopted in recent years.
Sun Feb 27 0:45:39 2000
Anyone see Sally Loane's article in the Herald this morning. She's the third journo to write about Mardi Gras being over commercialised. The other two are Alex Mitchell in the Sun-Herald last weekend, and that guy in The Eye. Is it just possible that the straights are seeing something that we can't?
Mon Feb 28 8:22:35 2000
Maybe we are seeing something that she's not! You don't have to go to everything that's on and you don't have to spend big money either. You have t remember - she's a journalist and she is being used as a marketing tool by sponsors. Of course she's going to be over it. Maybe it takes more than one journo to cover Mardi Gras - do they have more than one journo for the Sydney Festival?
angelboy - Mon Feb 28 10:39:12 2000
As a queer, bisexual boi who used to identify as a 'Gay Man" I must say I feel sad that those of who choose to love all genders are constantly told 'If you could only make up your mind as to whether you like boys or girls...'
My answer - "I love people, not genitals"
gogoBOy - Mon Feb 28 12:09:29 2000
My reply to the Churches comes from their own mouths; "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone".
SevenOfNine - Mon Feb 28 21:33:05 2000
And their reply to us is the usual - "We don't condone violence against homosexuals (but we don't try to stop it either)". Taking a passive stance such as "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone" is not the way to go. Let there be no mistake - these people mean us harm. Don't try to sweep this over thinking that it is just a passing phase. It is only the begining of what the churches have in store for us.
Tue Feb 29 0:07:03 2000
Recently I attendend a training session for Mardi Gras Parade Officials. The team behind this training need to be congratulated for thier efforts. Not only was it lots of fun, but the material presented was of a very high quality. I now feel ready to face the masses this Saturday. Full marks to the cute presenter and his lesbian side kick.
Tue Feb 29 9:00:51 2000
Getting back to the issue about bi's. I was born female, had sex with guys, gave birth to a child, fell in love with a woman, changed my gender to male, continued to love women, became very attracted to men. Where does that put me ?
mzt - Fri Mar 3 0:17:44 2000
You have all the right credentials to be the next MG Prez.
Fri Mar 3 10:33:04 2000
How many timed do I have to say post your messages on one wall only?
Mardi Gras O N C E was a protest - 22 years ago - it is now a celebration of our achievements of our diversity and of our community. While we shall never forget the past - we should stop living in it and move on. Yes there is still along way to go in achieving equality and while I don't condone 2day FM for their ignorance, or the police for their actions 2 decades ago, I believe the Mardi Gras parade to be much more than a protest.
Lil MsG - Fri Mar 3 11:51:08 2000
Happy Mardi Gras Everyone. Perhaps, just perhaps, like the world did for one short day recently, we can put our differences aside and show love, warmth and faith in each other.
Fri Mar 3 14:07:50 2000
I don't like Mardi Gars. It fails to represent who I am. I hate it when regular people assume that because I'm a homo I am necessarily a flag waving, gay pride (whatever that is), steroid taking, leg waxing fairy. Which is the way MG is perceived generally. It is also thought to be a cheaply produces community event which condones promiscuity and drug consumption. I am very comfortably "out" to all my friends, family and work colleagues. As a 24yo (actually I turn 25 on 4 March) professionally employed and good looking homo, MG is progressivle losing significance and meaning in my life, and in the lives of many other homos I know. I have no problem being a homo. But as for me this weekend, my boyfriend and I are spending the weekend with his parents on the Northern Beaches. G&Ts on the balcony, good home cooked food with the inlaws, lazy walks on the beach together. Now that's living!
PS. I'm not 100% bitter - to all those who love Mardi Gras - have a great weekend and be safe. Be careful of e's that are not stamped. A toxicologist friend of mine is seeing some scary drugs where she works. Play it safe and have stacks of fun :)
Acker24 - Fri Mar 3 17:14:22 2000
Acker24 - great to hear you can spend time with your partner and his family this weekend, many of us don't have such luck, so I hope you don't mind if I spend this weekend celebrating with my boyfriend and my adopted alternative family. Anyway, have a wonderful weekend also, be careful not to drink too many G&T's, I hear there are many alcohol related deaths every weekend.
Fri Mar 3 18:13:04 2000
Whatever the weekend means to you, make the most of it!
You2 - Fri Mar 3 18:46:29 2000
Treating the parade like a party is the reason that we continue to not be taken seriously by the Australian community.
Fri Mar 3 19:07:38 2000
The MG parade is seen as a freak show.
Fri Mar 3 19:09:26 2000
Better a freak show, then silenced and closeted!
Fri Mar 3 19:12:28 2000
Oh of course because they are our only choices aren't they. Either freaks or closeted, there's no other option.
Sarcasm - Fri Mar 3 19:35:52 2000
If you dont feel the parade represents you than organize an entry that does. Be visible, thats what its all about.
Zakalwe - Fri Mar 3 20:23:18 2000
Plenty of people have organised floats that represent them ie. the community floats. But the media always focuses on the sleaze. They only focus on the marching boys in their little shorts. And that is to all our detrement.
Enough of the mindless marching boys - Fri Mar 3 22:36:12 2000
Hopefuly this year the media will spend more than just a few seconds showing some of the more significant floats ie: trannies and other more diverse community groups rather than the marching boys, drag queens etc. as they do every year.
As pretty as these people are I for one would like to see a little divesity in my viewing instead of the cursory let's have a quick look at the others then flash straight back to the common vision for far too many minutes.Nonetheless hope everyone has a happy & safe weekend whatever you do & wherever go.
mzt - Fri Mar 3 23:24:33 2000
There are 600,000+ people who actually see the parade with eyes not filtered through the media. To these people you can present the alternatives to the stereotypes. It is a long process to educate the whole of Sydney, Australia and the world, generational even, but we have to persevere.
Fri Mar 3 23:29:17 2000
You have got to be kidding yourself if you think the media will change it's tactics this year. They always go for the lowest common denominator ie. spectacle. It costs them so much to put on the telecast that they will never take a risk and show the "real" gay community.
Marching boys win out again - Sat Mar 4 0:16:06 2000
Fri Mar 3 23:29:17 2000 - Try walking thru Hyde Park after the parade in your marching boy outfit and see how much more "educated" the people who see the parade in it's entirety are. Or maybe you could ride the trains before and after the parade and listen the comments people make about the parade and us fags in general. You're kidding yourself if you think that the parade does anything except reinforce stereotypes whilst drag queens and marching boys dominate the parade.
Sat Mar 4 0:20:25 2000
I saw the Parade from start to finish and the highlights for me were the marching boys. Those Qtasses - wow! Yes, there are political statements, but yes, we're here to have fun! More marching boys!
Sun Mar 5 19:18:57 2000
The pay-per-view coverage of Mardi Gras was pathetic? Who was that awful American drag queen? They promised uncensored coverage but we saw the two giant penises on Channel Ten as well. They actually ignored several of the floats for example the Melissa Etheridge display. The Scottish actor who joined the hosts near the start was a homophobe - you could tell he hated every minute of it. In contrast Channel Ten's coverage was far superior in both the camerawork and the commentary.
P.S. - I do not work for Channel Ten.
Ripped Off Severely - Mon Mar 6 14:12:04 2000
The pay-per-view coverage of Mardi Gras was pathetic. Who was that awful American drag queen? They promised uncensored coverage but we saw the two giant penises on Channel Ten as well. They actually ignored several of the floats for example the Melissa Etheridge display. The Scottish actor who joined the hosts near the start was a homophobe - you could tell he hated every minute of it. In contrast Channel Ten's coverage was far superior in both the camerawork and the commentary.
P.S. - I do not work for Channel Ten.
Ripped Off Severely - Mon Mar 6 14:13:10 2000
Kyle's spam (post to multiple walls) has been deleted.
Please see it here.
kyle - Mon Mar 6 15:19:18 2000 - Kyle, I totally believe you and feel for you. What also concerns me is that you're probably not the only gay teenager who's had the same experience today. The trouble is, your voices aren't heard too often enough. What you're telling us is that there is a dark side to mardi gras which a lot of us ignore all too easily.
Mon Mar 6 16:56:35 2000
I would like to pass on my best wishes to the lady that had the misfortune of falling from one of the speaker boxes in the RHI aound 8am. I witnessed the whole thing until you were stretchered away. Just to let you know, your friends were very quick to jump in and help you. If you or someone that knows you could keep me up-to-date, it would be appreciated. Hugs to you...
Toucan - Mon Mar 6 18:08:06 2000
Kyle - It doesn't surprise me that this happened to you. So many of us are trying to tell others in our community that MG has lost it's way. It is no longer a political demonstration, it's just turned into a stupid party that people like yourself have to pay the consequences for. Hopefully in a few weeks when this bisexual issue goes to the vote and fails miserably alot of people will get pissed off enough to make sure that MG is held accountable for what it does.
The party's over - Mon Mar 6 22:52:03 2000
I think you will be suprised about how the vote goes regarding the bisexual issue. With the board publically supporting bisexual inclusion, I would suspect 75% members should vote for it also. If not, why did over 75% of the voting members choose the current board last AGM? Has the board some how changed so much, that their opinions are no longer made in the interest of benefiting Mardi Gras? Are they no longer representing the membership? My opinion is that by this time next year bisexuals will be able to become equal members of Mardi Gras.
Tue Mar 7 0:36:49 2000
I seriously hope that you are right. But I don't think that this will pass very easily just because the outgoing president supports it. That loony who was on here weeks ago isn't the only one to hold such extreme views. Most people who hold his views aren't as public about them as him. But they don't need to be public about it, all they have to do is vote it down. Unfortunately it takes alot more to make a change than it does to keep the status quo.
Tue Mar 7 1:20:33 2000
I would just like to make a clarification that the "loony" I just referred to wasn't the President. I meant the loony known as "Gay & Proud" who posted to this wall a few weeks ago. I'm sure he must be so disappointed that there was no blockade of the parade as he kept on raving on about.
Tue Mar 7 1:23:30 2000
Toucan - Mon Mar 6 18:08:06 2000 - Dontcha know that the word "lady" is politically incorrect and possibly reveals that you are a latent sexist and anti-coalitionist. I suggest you seek immediate "re-education", otherwise you might find yourself losing (or being denied) mardi gras membership.
Tue Mar 7 8:08:04 2000
I know that lady is considered quite offensive for Australian dykes, but it's quite funny that in the USA many lesbian nights at clubs and bars are called ladies nights. Don't know if this says anything, other then different cultures have different emphasis on words.
Tue Mar 7 10:21:36 2000
Who's idea was it to block the entrance to the party with the end of the parade and then tell all the crowds that wanted to get in that there was an entrance either 'just around the corner' or 'down the road'. I didn't want to have to wait for an hour to get into the party (I didn't even want to see the parade) but nobody seemed to know how to get in. Put the turnstiles somewhere else next time.
Tue Mar 7 11:19:31 2000
Re: Tue Mar 7 0:36:49 2000: The current board only got approximately 66% of the votes cast last AGM.
Facts & figures - Tue Mar 7 12:44:19 2000
Toucan The girl who fell off of the speaker stand in the RHI: she was worked on for quite a while in the Medical Centre, but she wasn't *seriously* injured. There was loss of blood: maybe that made it looked worse than it really was. I'm not playing down her injuries, but she'll be fine.
Tue Mar 7 18:41:17 2000
First of all, "sorry" I should have used a better description other than typing what I did... my heart races every time I think of what i saw... even now.. and thank you for letting me know of her out come.. 3 days past I still can't stop thinking of it. has put me off dancing on podiums above 3ft for life!
Toucan - Wed Mar 8 0:35:09 2000
And if your going to have the gaul to criticize and threaten me... have the guts to sign your name!!! My comments were sent in concern, not as an insult.
Angry Toucan - Wed Mar 8 0:41:30 2000
I can't believe that people are getting upspet over stupid things like somone using the word "lady" when there are so many more important things to get pissed off about. ie. the parade degeranating into a party with no substance.
Get your priorities sorted - Wed Mar 8 7:28:04 2000
Get your priorities sorted - Wed Mar 8 7:28:04 2000 - language can wound and hurt, as well as being offensive. There are many women, including most lesbians who find the word "lady" offensive. How can we build a strong caring united community when we offend each other?
Wed Mar 8 10:34:37 2000
Context seems to be missing on the 'lady' diatribe. It may be valid to say that there are other words that could have been used but the vitriol spat out towards somebody who was expressing concern (and it wasn't even to 'ladies' in general - it was towards one person) astounds me. Get a grip 'ladies' and work out exactly what you want to change and the best possible means of doing it. Your expression of anger was misdirected.
Wed Mar 8 11:44:30 2000
Tue Mar 7 1:23:30 2000 - The loonY "Gay & Proud" was a hoax!
Hoaxer - Wed Mar 8 15:27:16 2000
Thanks to all concerned for a great weekend. No whinging from me.
Jeff - Wed Mar 8 17:22:29 2000
Hoaxer - G&P wasn't a hoaxer, he just realised that he had gotten himself in too deep with what he started and the only way out was to pretend he was a hoax. And even if he was a hoax, do you really think that he was the only one who thinks like that?? I'm sorry to tell you, but there are plenty of pple who are bigoted against bisexuals - otherwise we wouldn't be in the situation that we are currently in.
Wed Mar 8 17:48:04 2000
Please don't call me a gentleman. I am not gentle.
Sarcasm - Wed Mar 8 17:54:00 2000
Alf Garnett was intended to be a joke. The problem is, a lot of people agreed with him.
Wed Mar 8 18:09:10 2000
I don't think all the dykes, sorry gay womyn, should get annoyed at Toucan. His comment of "lady" was obviously meant to mean a heterosexual female as no dyke would've been able to get her fat arse up on the speaker. And even if a butch dyke could've, I'm sure that when she hit the ground that it would've measured on the ricther scale and so been reported on the daily news!!!!!
Keep calm girls, it's just a joke! - Wed Mar 8 20:36:44 2000
Alf Garnet is very funny!
Yiddo - Wed Mar 8 21:49:01 2000
To Keep Calm...you've obviously got a limp dick and can't suck anyone off you F*cking loser!!
ohhh thats a joke too! - Thu Mar 9 12:12:55 2000
Oh dear.
Thu Mar 9 14:25:46 2000
See girls, now your getting into the spirit of things!
The joker - Thu Mar 9 19:34:16 2000
Seriously girls, sorry womyn, you have much more important things to get upset over. Toucan was just showing concern over another fellow human being and you jump down his throat. No wonder all your clubs keep on closing down after a few months, if that's how you treat people who are just trying to be nice.
Thu Mar 9 19:43:10 2000
G&P was not a hoax. I know I invented him.
Hoaxer - Thu Mar 9 19:56:21 2000
Are you disappointed that there was no blockade the parade?? I bet that really spoiled your night, didn't it. Oh and did you have trouble filling out the forms in order to get a stall at fair day?? The first thing you had to do was fill out your name. I guess that was just too hard for you. And I was so looking forward to meeting you.
Thu Mar 9 20:10:18 2000
Did everyone see the Bisexual float on the telecast? Not quite sure if this is what G&L meant about a bisexual blockade of the parade. The Fred Nile Christians were there again, I just love how they stay to watch the whole parade, I'm sure some of the younger ones want to join the parade.
Fri Mar 10 0:05:12 2000
I note that the SGLMG Wall is hardly addressing any major issues. Seems we are all happy with everything at the moment and obviously should be giving the Board a big round of applause instead of the usual brickbats. MG2000 rocked!
Fri Mar 10 1:21:19 2000
MG2000 sucked. Boring launch, boring festival and boring parade. Who cares if the party drugs were good. The board was hardly responsible for them.
Fri Mar 10 8:20:58 2000
"Boring Parade!" Some people are never pleased. Take your negative comments and bite them. This years parade was one of the best in many years. Our community should be proud. Special thanks to all those who volunteered their time to make this a wonderful Mardi Gras.
Fri Mar 10 8:50:50 2000
Congratulations to the Board and Committees, MG2000 was excellent! I want to especially thank David for leading the organisation to a place the 78ers could of been proud of, MG is finally heading in a direction that recognises it's roots. To those of you who are shouting boring, to bad! we have so much to do politically and socilally......do you know our youth is still killing them selves because of their same-sex attraction? Do you know we don't have equal rights to heterosexuals? Do you know our brothers and sisters are still being bashed?
this year I'm happier - Fri Mar 10 9:32:19 2000
I note that you didn't take offence to "boring launch" or to "boring festival". Shows were your priorities ly. The parade is just a freak show. It needs to evolve from mindless marching boys. Over the past few years it has become stagnant and not just very boring, but mundane. Everything in the parade this year we have seen in some form or other in previous years. Where was the creativity (and I don't just mean being able to come up with a colorful float)??? But I don't knock the volunteers, they did a good job. It's the rest of us that let them down.
Fri Mar 10 9:36:52 2000
this year I'm happier - This is my point exactly. How can we be taken seriously on all these issues when marching boys are our representatives in the eyes of the mainstream community??
Fri Mar 10 9:38:29 2000
Does David have to abdicate? Or can he go one more term? He has to be the most popular prez in a long long time.
Baby do it to me one more time - Fri Mar 10 12:24:34 2000
I just believe things have move into a more positive direction this year, and a step in the right direction is a great thing. To expect it to change over night would be ridiculous, too many people have too much invested in the way things are now. That's why I'm thanking David, he made an effort to point them in the direction they need to go, now we just need to insure it keeps going that way.
this year I'm happier - Fri Mar 10 13:15:30 2000
Fri Mar 10 8:20:58 2000 - Do you have any constructive suggestions on how to make things less "boring"?
Panther - Fri Mar 10 13:20:47 2000
Gee, I think David is just soooooo terrific, we should deify him!
Fri Mar 10 13:26:33 2000
That is going a little far, but as a leader he has done a good job, and should be recognised for it.
Fri Mar 10 13:32:35 2000
I'm sick of the prejudice shown to the marching boys and other gay men on this board. Grow up pinkboarders, isn't Mardi Gras all inclusive? So why the prejudice to these gay guys cos they have good bods! Are you jealous? Btw ....thanks Mardi Gras board for a entertaining festival, a fun but provoking parade and a fabby party :)
Hotspur Boy - Fri Mar 10 13:38:08 2000
I think the point that those who dislike marching boys are trying to make, is that they over represent what our community is about, so help re-enforce stereotypes and create body image issues.
this year I'm happier - Fri Mar 10 15:24:16 2000
Hotspur Boy - actually Mardi Gras is not all inclusive, unless you are a Marching Boy, that is the problem.
Fri Mar 10 15:45:16 2000
........the the parade is inclusive though......I guess.
Fri Mar 10 15:46:11 2000
Hotspur Boy - Fri Mar 10 13:38:08 2000 - It's not that we don't like marching boys. It's that alot of people are begining to see that the parade has stagnated. It needs to move away from the "party" atmosphere and move back to what it was initially - a political protest. Note that I said that the "parade" needs to stop being a party, not that we should stop having parties altogether.
We must evolve - Fri Mar 10 16:09:01 2000
Question: Are the guys from the Footy show taken seriously?
Fri Mar 10 16:32:57 2000
Fri Mar 10 13:32:35 2000 - Oooh no. David has all the qualifications for sainthood except one. And perhaps we should help him fulfill that one last qualification.
Sat Mar 11 10:25:31 2000
What is the last qualification he is missing?
Sat Mar 11 12:28:03 2000
He is still alive and kicking!
Sat Mar 11 12:49:09 2000
Dear 'We must evolve',
The parade only evolves to the extent that each of us involves.
Join the parade. Make your statement. That is what the parade is there for.
If the parade appeared to have a party atmosphere this year, its because that is what the participants turned it into.
Of course no two people's impression of the parade will ever be the same. Where one person remembers a party-parade full of marching boys, another will recall a complex, colourful parade which featured, up front, koori dykes and poofs, the gay and lesbian rights lobby, a mob of asian boys marching to raise their community profile and esteem, and lesbians and gay men from various religious backgrounds putting their issues and struggles out on the street. And each one of these groups numbered in the hundreds. That doesn't even include the thousand or so people who comprised the HIV/AIDS section of the parade.
It's an awesome, complex, and celebratory manifestation of and by US - gays and lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders. And it will become more what you want it to be , the more you get involved.
Sun Mar 12 14:04:37 2000
Maybe I didn't see the same parade? I'm sure I saw indigenous groups, youth groups, women - lots and lots :) - Asian marching boys, trannies, bisexuals, bears, heteros, people living with HIV and AIDS, older queers. So why the constant prejudice against white gay guys? They make up just one color of the rainbow. And ok so these guys are white, but don't assume they're all Aussie. Many are from multicultural communities too. Look beyond the obvious, that's a good mesage for Mardi Gras. The parade is the most inclusive event in the world. The parade is politcial but it is also a time to celebrate and party too (remember not everyone can afford nearly $100 for a party ticket). And the political issues this year, well errr ... Im sure there were tampons protesting the GST, 2 boys who got married, queers for reconciliation, and paraodies of Piers Ackerman and the homophobe archbishops. Did anybody else see this or am I still partying too hard?
Hotspur Boy - Sun Mar 12 15:44:19 2000
You may have seen a diversity of floats but the gawkers don't remember the diversity, they just remember the glitter and the marching boys. Hardly something that'll help GLBT youth, still in the midst of homophobic society, need.
Sun Mar 12 20:51:40 2000
The reference to "boys" in the expression "marching boys" is derogatory and offensive. None of them are boys, they are all adult men. They should be referred to as "marching men" or "marching male persons".
Mon Mar 13 7:04:02 2000
I am currently preparing Pinkboard's Parade Gallery and I am reminded of all the floats that were there, about 200 of them. When it is finished please have a look again at the variery of floats that participated.
Panther - Mon Mar 13 9:10:39 2000
Sorry you missed the boys! Glad I didn't :) So being a marching boy is not for everyone, but live and let live. Let others have their fun. As Panther says there were about 200 floats, so I'm sure there must be something for everyone. If not, get involved next year.
Hotspur Boy - Mon Mar 13 11:37:33 2000
Mon Mar 13 7:04:02 2000 - Why don't you leave that up to every individual, if someone wants to call them selves a boy or girl for that matter, let them!
Boy Power! - Mon Mar 13 12:18:35 2000
Boy Power! - Mon Mar 13 12:18:35 2000 - If people are calling themselves "boys", they are either ignorant or suffering from internalised self-hatred, which means they're also probably suffering from internalised homophobia.
Mon Mar 13 15:08:14 2000
Oh really! Well I'm quite happy for my Daddy to call me boy, and I think this has more to do with my right for self definition then homophobia.
boy power! - Mon Mar 13 15:19:01 2000
Ignorant! Internalised hatred or homphobia!! You'd better explain that one. If people can call themselves bears, or dykes, or fags or poofs, or wogs or niggers, or white trash, or rice queens, or sugar daddies or fag hags, or fish I see nothing wrong about boys!
Hotspur Boy (yes I said Boy!) - Mon Mar 13 16:15:47 2000
Has homophobic society been so good to us lately that we have been reduced to arguing about stupid words like "boy" and "lady" at alleviate boredom??
Mon Mar 13 17:48:37 2000
Now, now, boys and girls. Behave!
Mon Mar 13 18:02:13 2000
Funny how there are so many saying that there were too many marching boys in the Parade. I was talking to someone over the weekend who was moaning about the Parade being too political... :-)
Free Spirit - Mon Mar 13 20:53:44 2000
Bet he wasn't there in '78
Mon Mar 13 21:13:24 2000
78 78 78 - lesbian and gay pride started a lot before that!
Mon Mar 13 21:53:03 2000
and you can bet that nothing got achieved by just wearing little shorts and prancing around to some disco number.
Mon Mar 13 22:06:22 2000
ever heard of the Stonewall honey ? (no not the Oxford St one).
Mon Mar 13 22:08:39 2000
It was the party boys and drag queens of the Stonewall in New York who rioted in 1969, leading to Gay Liberation movements throughout the world in the 1970's.
part e boy - Mon Mar 13 22:32:14 2000
Yeah but they didn't do it by having a party.
Mon Mar 13 23:17:59 2000
That's the part you boys are missing. Sure have a party, but make sure you've got something to celebrate first.
Mon Mar 13 23:19:54 2000
Mon Mar 13 17:48:37 2000 - Arguing about words is not trivial. Words oppress. That's why we have anti-vilification legislation to protect us. If we were more concerned about the words we use, and didn't use words that were offensive, hurtful and oppressive, we'd be in a much better world.
Mon Mar 13 23:41:46 2000
Actually the Trannies not just the dragqueens were the ones responsible for Stonewall riots.
Tue Mar 14 8:38:21 2000
The first lesbian and gay movemets were in Germany in the 1920s to 30s not the USA. All were crushed by the Nazis and most organisers killed or put in concentration camps.
Tue Mar 14 19:12:08 2000
But this could never happen to us, we have such a cool Mardi Gras party......could it? There were a few out gay men who were quite high ranking members of the Nazi party, that was until they were all assassinated, and homosexuals were treated the same as Jews, Gypsies and communists. Oh by the way, it is kind of inaccurate to call it the Gay and Lesbian movement, homosexual movement would be more appropriate.
Tue Mar 14 20:42:55 2000
Mon Mar 13 23:41:46 2000 - I agree that words can hurt however the criticism that was directed was at Toucan for his "lady" comment was trivial.
Tue Mar 14 22:36:06 2000
Tue Mar 14 20:42:55 2000 - Homosexual and bisexual movement.
Tue Mar 14 22:42:31 2000
Oh yes, bisexual movement also. As people got to together because of their sexual desires not sexual identity.
Wed Mar 15 0:36:09 2000
Well, is mardi gras going to show the same positive community spirit as the Gay & Lesbian Rights Lobby? This morning I received the following email from the Lobby:
Wed Mar 15 8:03:57 2000
The Out vs Free Argument has been basically taken off Pinkboard and is not appropriate for the Mardi Gras Wall
Wed Mar 15 20:43:30 2000
Wed Mar 15 20:43:30 2000 - This is not an Out v Free argument. It is about mardi gras' willingness to become actively involved in supporting and helping another community organisation. So it's entirely relevant to this wall.
Wed Mar 15 22:04:50 2000
All further postings about aspirant broadcasters will be removed.
Tue Mar 14 20:42:55 2000 - no I called it the lesbian and gay movement! They were quite seperate.
Thu Mar 16 13:51:45 2000
The Free versus Out wall was bitter and twisted, obviously a reflection on those writing it and, unfortunately, far too many people (like those immediately above) who really don't deserve a right of speech.
Let's try to make this a happier place. One way would be to show some respect for the views of others, even if we disagree with them. I think that goes for anyone disagreeing with Panther. Do we really need to scratch each others' eyes out?
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 17 18:51:26 2000
Fri Mar 17 14:27:24 2000 - There is no way that anyone outside our community watches this space. The whole mess with G&P and his threatened blockade proved that.
Fri Mar 17 19:56:17 2000
Can I take this moment to thank everyone for a fantastic Mardi Gras season. I know there are always things we could have done better and we try to be open to suggestions and criticisms and take them on board.I truly believe (in my totally biased view) we had one of our best Mardi Gras seasons ever and we are starting now to try and make next year is even better. Just remember only 358 sleeps to Mardi Gras 2001 ( more or less)
David McLachlan - Fri Mar 17 21:20:23 2000
Hang on a minute, 358 sleeps to Mardi Gras 2001? That takes us to 10th March 2001, which is a Saturday. Is that right?
Diary-Di - Fri Mar 17 21:49:26 2000
Depends how often you sleep i suppose
Fri Mar 17 22:19:30 2000
I came right after David McLachlan!
It was wonderful, David.
Sleeps well.
Diary-Di - Sat Mar 18 9:25:47 2000
David McLachlan - Fri Mar 17 21:20:23 2000 - OK David, so you had a wunnerful wunnerful mardi gras that was so faaabulously successful. But just remember the great success of mardi gras was due much more to the hundreds (nay thousands) of volunteers who gave of their time, effort and energy to make it so successful. As for you, the hard work should just be beginning - and that hard work includes implementing all those grand objectives of the strategic plan.
Sun Mar 19 8:50:06 2000
Please list here the grand objectives of the strategic plan.
Thanks.
Sun Mar 19 8:58:50 2000
Let the real festivities begin
Sun Mar 19 11:20:54 2000
Sun Mar 19 8:58:50 2000 - OK, you asked for them. Here goes.
Sun Mar 19 14:59:55 2000
so how many are expected to actually be achieved? (realistically)
Sun Mar 19 18:34:33 2000
Key result 6. Increased visibility, community pride and equality for lesbians and gay men.
Sun Mar 19 18:40:10 2000
Sun Mar 19 18:34:33 2000 - Nil. Nix. None. Nada. Nought. Zero. Zilch. 0000.
Sun Mar 19 21:51:36 2000
But I'm sure we'll be able to find some party boys to dress it all up with bright colors and some glitter. Then everything will be alright. Glitter always makes things better.
Mon Mar 20 1:43:44 2000
MC for PM (?)
Mon Mar 20 2:01:38 2000
Stop knocking the party boys. Its their $$$ that provides the bulk of the funding for the festival & parade. Take them & their money out & we would have to rely more on sponsorship.
Mon Mar 20 9:00:00 2000
Party boys are as much a part of Mardi Gras as any other group. Get over your prejudice towards them and contribute something positive. How about getting involved instead of bitching? It works you know!
Hotspur Boy - Mon Mar 20 11:15:06 2000
MC for PM (?) Mon Mar 20 2:01:38 2000: No - and its not me - try someone else.
MC - Mon Mar 20 13:25:24 2000
Mon Mar 20 9:00:00 2000 - Or we could do the parade the old fashion way ie. substance over style.
Mon Mar 20 20:12:28 2000
Yes, party boys are the most oppressed and marginilised group in our community. There are no events, ad campaigns, safe sex campaigns aimed at them at all. They must feel so marginilised.
Mon Mar 20 20:21:35 2000
They get all these services because they are the ones with the money, and as the saying goes, money makes the world go around. Let's not look into the reasons why white males have all the money, it starts to get too complicated for most.
Mon Mar 20 21:46:54 2000
Yes, let's just ignore things, hopefully they'll get better on their own.
Mon Mar 20 21:57:47 2000
Mon Mar 20 21:46:54 2000 - Racism and hompophobia is alive and kicking!
Mon Mar 20 22:21:56 2000
And racism within the homosexual community too
Mon Mar 20 23:15:41 2000
"Key result 1. The best events of lesbian and gay cultural expression and celebration." Of course, unless you like to dress up and have a lot of fun with it. In which case you're just a party boy bla di bla di bla. Give over bitching.
Mon Mar 20 23:38:29 2000
The Mardi Gras Parade and Party 2001 is on 3rd March 2001.
This year's Sleaze Ball Party is on 11th November 2000.
Diary-Di - Mon Mar 20 23:43:08 2000
People aren't saying that party boys should be shot. People are saying that there should be diversity within the community and the events. ie inclusion and diversity
Tue Mar 21 0:45:08 2000
Hotspur Boy - Mon Mar 20 11:15:06 2000 - Party boys don't buy party tickets because they want to support the festival or the parade or help the less fortunate in the community. They buy party tickets because they are totally self-indulgent, self-centred, self-obsessed, selfish individuals who don't care about anybody else and just want a good time. and remember, the money they spend on party tickets is just a fraction of what they spend on the party. what about the money they waste on their outfits, drugs, recoveries etc etc. how much of that money comes back to the community?
Tue Mar 21 9:35:01 2000
Does the reason why Party boys buy tickets to the MArdi Gras really matter? They are getting what they want & subsidising the festival as well. Very generous of them I think. Imagine what the party would be like if all of the income from it was put back into the party.
As for the money they spend on clothes & recoveries, well i',m sure there are alot of gay & lesbian businesses that are very happy that they are spending.
Its time to realise that we are a diverse community & that without actually knowing it we support each other in various ways. The bitchy, comments aimed at various groups within our community and also at Mardi Gras as an organisation can only do us harm. Its our Mardi Gras. Its our community. It is what we make it.
5:55 - Tue Mar 21 13:20:27 2000
5:55 - Tue Mar 21 13:20:27 2000 - The party boys only buy party tickets to get what they want. They are only ever interested in getting what they want. That doesn't mean they're generous at all. if they didnt like the parties, or some other party became more attractive or fashionable, they'd go there.
Tue Mar 21 17:10:14 2000
Anonymous. There seems to be an awful lot of judgement going on. You're judging "party boys" as being of one mind. Do "they" all think the way you say "they" do? Have you talked to each and every one of "them"? Do *any* of "them" think that way? Let "them" make up their own minds. Would you like to be condemned as you have condemned "them"?
Breathe deeply. Life's good.
Free Spirit - Tue Mar 21 18:50:23 2000
As a 'party boy' who has put untold volunteer hours into all sorts of community activities from law reform to hiv/aids, and who attends lots of festival events that have nothing to do with partying, I think at least one person here ought to be examining their own outlook on life and attitude. just what is it you resent?
Tue Mar 21 23:14:16 2000
Tue Mar 21 23:14:16 2000 - If you do all the things that you say you do, then you're not a party boy. You're a valued community member.
Wed Mar 22 10:09:00 2000
A valued community member who identifies as a party boy. Well if there is one, I'm sure there is more.
Wed Mar 22 10:38:53 2000
But you can only be one or the other, it is like being Gay or Straight, you cannot be both or do what both of them do......yes I'm trying to be sarcastic
Wed Mar 22 17:59:14 2000
Wed Mar 22 10:38:53 2000 - is a valued community member who identifies as a party boy the same as a bisexual who also identifies as gay?
Wed Mar 22 19:52:05 2000
I'll address the comments from Mon Mar 20 11:15:06 2000 - Your attitude really is quite sad. Your views are full of assumptions and prejudices. But I can get over it - you see Im very active in the community and party hard too! Maybe you should party hard once in a while - you sure need to lighten up. Instead of bitching and criticising what suggestions do you have for making Mardi Gras better? Try and be constructive, it isn't hard!
Hotspur Boy - Wed Mar 22 20:43:15 2000
A party boy is (by definition) a gay boy who only goes to dance parties and never turns up to the rallies. ie. they take but never give anything back (money doesn't count because our community was built on more than just finances).
Wed Mar 22 21:10:52 2000
People aren't saying there should be parties. Only that the parade should go back to being political because that is what it originally was. And it just reinforces stereotypes when it (the parade) is just a party. No-one is saying that all the parties shouldn't happen. Only that there should be balance.
Wed Mar 22 21:19:29 2000
how ridiculous - whose definition? Not mine. Move on and be positive.
Wed Mar 22 21:20:17 2000
Sorry that should read "People aren't saying that there shouldn't be parties".
Wed Mar 22 21:21:17 2000
The parade should be a unique combination of partying and politics. This years did this perfectly. For example we had the Bloody Mary's protesting against GST and the sexy Asian marching boys. Just two examples that show how we do this so well and very diverse too! Also not everyone can afford the price of a party ticket - for many the parade is their time to party.
All up Mardi Gras is what each individual or group makes it. So what's your suggestions for next year?
Hotspur Boy - Wed Mar 22 21:26:55 2000
Wed Mar 22 21:20:17 2000 - The people who are critisizing party boys. They aren't saying that going to parties makes you a party boy. They are saying that if you only care about parties soley, without any consideration for the rest of the community, then you are a party boy. Just like the word "fagget" is defined by the people who say it to you.
Wed Mar 22 21:30:08 2000
people aren't passive sponges just soaking up evrything. People define themselves. To some words like "faggot" are the words they choose to describe themselves. And are there really people who care about nothing but parties? Sounds like a massive assumption to me. Can you offer anything positive?
Hotspur Boy - Wed Mar 22 21:38:06 2000
But what does the average Australian remember of this year's parade?? Boys in little shorts. That is hardly a political act. The parade can't be both political and a party. The party side negates the political message.
Wed Mar 22 21:39:22 2000
MG parties, price $90 - 20,000 people.
The facts speak for themselves - Wed Mar 22 21:41:48 2000
I disagree my friend. Party and politics so easily mixed in the 2000 parade. Get out your video tape or borrow one and it may jog your memory - marching boys, drag queens, dykes on bikes all partying but also politics with the GST, the environment, the unions. This is a small example off the top of my head. It seems you repeat your arguement every week but have few constructive comments to make. I guess you are happy in your prejudice. So be it!
Hotspur Boy - Wed Mar 22 21:46:16 2000
and none of the 2,000 people have ever partied have they?
Wed Mar 22 21:49:09 2000
Hotspur - You're talking with more than one person. My point is that the party, spectacle, freak show aspect of the parade completely negates the politicle message because the freak show is all people remember.
Wed Mar 22 22:02:41 2000
Wed Mar 22 21:49:09 2000 - Noone is saying that "partying" is wrong. Only that there needs to be balance. If 20thousand people turned up to the rallies I don't think that we would be having this conversation (nor would we have unequal age of consent, etc)
Wed Mar 22 22:06:36 2000
Wed Mar 22 21:30:08 2000 "The people who are critisizing party boys." I think there is only one, as the same highly-embittered attitude is coming through in every post. It reminds me of the G&P brick wall. Bless whoever it is. A lot of us have been bitter at some stage in our lives. Most of us get over it and start to enjoy life *as well as* still trying to improve things around us.
Wed Mar 22 22:38:19 2000
It's not just on this forum that this conversation has been happening. This has been discussed for a long time now. It's just coming to a head now because of the churches attacks on us.
Wed Mar 22 23:31:18 2000
Isnt the whole point of MardiGras about being visible?
Isnt it also part of the point having fun and celebrating ourselves and our lives? Not only this but its also a way of thanking all those who contribute to community organizations.
MG being one big party is a political act in itself, the fact that we cant be ignored, that every homophobe has to acknowledge our existance, that we dont live the hidden and oppressed lives that they would want our lives to be, as it used to be. MG is one big announcement to the world, here we are deal with it! If you have a problem its yours!
If the parde wasnt a party, who would come?
Zakalwe - Wed Mar 22 23:39:26 2000
If the parade wasn't a party, who would come? - Do we need others in order to celebrate?
Wed Mar 22 23:45:19 2000
If only ten people and not 500,000 people turned up to watch the parade would it be any less valid?
Wed Mar 22 23:46:42 2000
Zakalwe - Wed Mar 22 23:39:26 2000 - I think that we have moved beyond the point of just being visible. And even if it still was a question of being visible, there are other ways (and more effective ways ) of being visible which don't need to revolve around reinforcing stereotypes.
Wed Mar 22 23:51:20 2000
Wed Mar 22 23:45:19 2000, Wed Mar 22 23:46:42 2000 and Wed Mar 22 23:51:20 2000 - you're one person, I think. What exactly are you suggesting? That the Parade be cancelled?
Taking your points one by one, do we need others? We can all celebrate internally, by feeling good about ourselves, yes. And this *would* have a good affect. One excellent way of helping us all to feel good about ourselves is to have a wonderful collective celebration, such as the Mardi Gras Parade.
If only 10 people turned up to watch and not 500000, would it be any less valid? There have been huge mistakes in history that were "popular" for a while, such as World War I. But these needed huge propaganda barrages to be get their support. Not many thought "Oh great, let's go along and - oh wow, it's fun here, isn't it?". People do that at Mardi Gras. Enjoy it. Let's get this into perspective. 499990 being wrong out of 500000, come on, it's not very likely, is it? And the negative connertations of just 10 turning up - just imagine. It would be the end of Mardi Gras. You can't seriously suggest that a Parade in front of a much lower number of people would be a *celebration*, can you? The fact that such a large number of people turn up to watch, it does make people think, and I'm not talking about others thinking "those f******g gays and lezzies, they're all f******g *******" or words to that effect.
Stereotypes. This comes up again and again. But to me, there was so much variety in the Parade, that I really can't understand why. There were people having fun, there own kind of fun, which is great, people protesting, loads of different points being made. Isn't all that OK?
Rather than just post negative comments about the Parade, why not suggest what you want there to be? Be constructive. Alternatively - why not go along with a positive attitude and enjoy it, like everyone else?
Free Spirit - Thu Mar 23 5:15:48 2000
The attacks on the "parties boys" are absolutely deplorable, negative, unhelpful, unconstructive and unfair. yet there only seems to be one or two self-identifying party boys who are prepared to defend being party boys. Surely that must speak volumes, and suggest that even though the attacks on the parties boys are absolutely deplorable, negative, unhelpful, unconstructive and unfair, they might just be a teensy weensy little bit .... accurate?
Thu Mar 23 8:04:11 2000
Lets not forget that there is something very political about 7000 particapants, marching up oxford street, no matter what they were. This years parade was exremely political. Look at the lead float...Noahs Ark calling for two by two of every kind...very timely...The sodomite entry, the bloody marys & of course the marching girls dressed as melissa Etheridge, complete with turkey baster. Also there were the 1400 parade officials all wearing t-shirts with the slogan "Full Equility For Lesbians & Gays". Just because our parade doesn't look like it did in 78 doesn't make it any less political.The colour, the glitter, the sex and the party atmosphere portrayed in this civil rights demonstration make it very unique indeed.I suggest that if you were unable to find any political messages in this years parade, take a closer look next year, but this time have your eyes open.
5:55 - Thu Mar 23 13:30:46 2000
Thu Mar 23 8:04:11 2000 ...... in response to your comment that the fact that there is only perhaps two self-identifying party boys in this argument, sorry, debate probably does speak volumes.
Like maybe some of the party boys are out there contributing to our community while you sit there and bitch and moan in a boring and repetitive, unhelpful debate?
Just a thought.
Thu Mar 23 13:59:25 2000
Over 20,000 people attend the Mardi Gras Party. At most 20 percent of those people are active community volunteers. The other 80 percent can't all be overseas/interstate visitors can they?
Thu Mar 23 14:21:19 2000
The Party Boys are the basis for all 'dance' orientated events in Sydney. How dare the purists critise their love of music and their qualified comments? They are the one's that support your beloved organisations and their fundraising parties. Get a life you little whingers who are probably far too scared to show your little faces (and, no doubt, bodies) in public. You sit at home and attack from the safety of your computer and bedroom - that, it would seem, given your immense amount of spare time to be vile, no one else shares with you! Get out and smell the roses, even if they come in lines and bullets. :)
Thu Mar 23 18:38:31 2000
Jeez! 6 months down track & the same "party boy" blathering from embittered, dateless-loser, self-assessed, Gay 101 failures.
"The Party Boy", (like "The Darlinghurst Queen"), is a stereotypical myth, constructed out of self-loathing.
Exit shaking head slowly..................
Thu Mar 23 18:38:57 2000
Why is it that we are being called upon to aspire to mediocrity?! Cancel the costumes for next year kids! Jeans and t-shirts all round so everyone can see that we're "normal"!
Zakalwe - Thu Mar 23 19:33:11 2000
Larry turn off your computer and go out for a walk and smell the flowers. It'll do you a world of good and perhaps you wont need to "live" through these "characters" of yours.
Bound & Gagged - Thu Mar 23 19:47:37 2000
I think that people aren't understanding what is being said. No-one is saying that all parties should be cancelled. People are saying that the parade should go back to being solely political. For the people who can't understand that that is constructive criticism let me spell it out for you. One year we have a MG parade in which there is no color whatsoever. Just one sign with 7000 people marching behind it. That would make such an impact in the media because they would have nothing else to report. The next year we have color again, with lots of streamers and glitter and everything goes back to normal just like other MG parades of the past, with one exception - we don't march down Oxford St because this isn't conquering any new ground. Instead we have the parade through parramatta (yes i know that you people don't go past george st - but that is where all our younger brothers and sisters are). Constructive enough for you?
Thu Mar 23 22:06:10 2000
Give it a rest. The facts of life are that most people never get off their arses and do a single thing for their community, whether they're straight, gay or from the planet Venus. The evil 'party boys' are not the only people in the gay and lesbian community not doing anything pro-active (apart from funding the festival and parade). Why keep carrying on about them? It seems to me this is about some sort of fun-envy or body-envy.
Thu Mar 23 23:03:52 2000
Did anyone read the article by the Jewish mother in today's Herald. How interesting it is that a straight woman seems to understand what mardi gras is really about, when so many dykes and poofs don't.
Fri Mar 24 8:06:43 2000
I was chatting with a work mate the other day about the parade and what is in it. She was saying that the parade is now something that families come to, including children. We have sympathy with a lot of these families and these children are going to be brought up in an accepting atmosphere. We are making very real gains with these people. Her point is that we should not alienate this family audience because they are the future and our messages are getting through to them. This is not the only audience though. How to ensure the message(s) of Mardi Gras gets through is very complicated, but we have to be aware af all the audiences of the parade.
Panther - Fri Mar 24 9:20:24 2000
What messages are getting through to them? That we all look good in little shorts and know how to do a dance routine?
Fri Mar 24 9:22:45 2000
Please let it be Happy and not IK or JW.
Fri Mar 24 11:58:53 2000
I don't think it's any coincidence that this country hosts the world's largest queer parade and party and has some of the most progressive queer legislation in the world. That's the success of all the so called glitter, color and party boys being ridiculed on this board. Mardi Gras has made all our lives easier.
Hotspur Boy - Fri Mar 24 13:19:54 2000
What the F are you talking about. There are other countries that have legalised gay marriages. We continue to have a legal defense for murder known as "homsexual panic defense".
Fri Mar 24 13:51:18 2000
Hotspur - I think you continue not to hear what people are saying. It's not party boys that we want to change. It is the focus of the parade (and only the parade).
Fri Mar 24 14:11:06 2000
It's legal to have sex here in all States; you won't get kicked out of the armed services here for being queer; the immigration dept recognise interdependent relationships; there are state based anti discrimination/vilification laws, there are state based laws recognising same sex couples as de-facto etc etc. We also reacted early and with strength to force the Government in the 1980s to act on HIV and AIDS much quicker than governments overseas. We were a world leader in this, the pandemic would be much worse if brave people hadn't been so strong. In the scheme of things in the rest of the queer world all this is big news and progressive. This is my opinion (no need to swear at me!). The political strength and success of Mardi Gras has made this possible. Yes we also have a lot to do (equal age of consent, superannaution, tranny rights, bisexual inclusion etc) but don't brush off what Mardi Gras has fought to achieve. Enjoy what we have achieved - party hard but fight hard too. This is what the parade in 2000 showed the world... partying and politics gets you places.
Hotspur Boy - Fri Mar 24 14:35:23 2000
Thu Mar 23 18:38:57 2000 - You're probably right. The "party boy" is largely a stereotype, but like all stereotypes, it's based on selective perceptions of reality - the result of observing lots of gay men dressing much the same way, working on their pecs at the gym, getting their bodies waxed, listening and liking the same music, using the same drugs, talking about the same things, having the same tastes, desires and prejudices. The problem is we don't recognise that every single one of these gay men is an *individual* with their own personalities, ideas, dreams, hopes, careers, lives etc and if you looked at them a little more closely, they wouldn't fit the stereoptype at all! But if none of them fit the cardboard stereotype, why do they feel they are being attacked, and why are they so defensive?
Fri Mar 24 14:47:02 2000
Good point
Fri Mar 24 14:58:46 2000
Hotspur - You forgot to add that we have unequal ages of consent here in NSW where we hold MG, while Vic, Tas, SA etc. have equal ages of consent
Fri Mar 24 15:00:46 2000
I realise that everyone is starting to get really pissed off here, so I hope my question isn't the final straw, but when will the EGM to include bisexual people into memembership going to be on?
Fri Mar 24 15:09:13 2000
Gee Fri Mar 24 14:47:02 2000 , I wonder — if you were Jewish or black or disabled and were being attacked on a level of mindless bigotry, would you defend yourself? If you defended yourself, would it mean there was some truth to the 'cardboard stereotype'? Hm? After all, if you're getting so defensive ...
Fri Mar 24 15:17:24 2000
We are going around in circles here. Try and focus on discussing what the focus of the parade should be. That is what we are discussing
Fri Mar 24 15:25:18 2000
What's all this nonsense about the parade being "purely political". If that means tired old Trotskyists shuffling down the street then MG never was that. It was intended to confront with humour. Now if we were to bring a lot more of the wit and satire back that would be fine. I suspect some people have never had a good time in their lives otherwise the bitchy attacks on so-called party boys whatever they may be defined as, would not be so vitriolic. Whoever mentioned "self-loathing" hit the nail on the head. Isn't the point that we are all different, and that diversity is out strength? Why not have a good time being vocal, visible and viewed. Cut the vile and vindictive crap puh-lease.
Live and let live - Fri Mar 24 15:30:38 2000
I'd hardly compare what is being said aboutthe partyboys on this wall (ie. they should take some time out from partying to go to the rallies) with what Jewish, black and disabled people have to go through. It's hardly the same thing.
Fri Mar 24 15:33:26 2000
Live and let live - Fri Mar 24 15:30:38 2000 - I'd hardly call the first few parades humorous (especially the first one where people got the crap beaten out of them).
Fri Mar 24 15:37:02 2000
MG parties, price $90 - 20,000 people.
Fri Mar 24 15:42:12 2000
For the anonymous misanthrope,
I was there. People were dressed up for a "mardi gras". They went with a joy for life and to make a difference to their and other lives, not to winge, backbite and complain about everyone else. It's called 'pride'.
Please. Lighten up a little
Live and let live - Fri Mar 24 16:04:24 2000
Anyone watch Dawson's Creek last nite ?
Fri Mar 24 16:13:32 2000
The parade is still seen as a freak show.
Fri Mar 24 16:27:13 2000
The focus of the Parade was and still is as a civil rights demonstration. There are many varied messages that are conveyed on the night. Most are done colourfully but thats not to say the message gets lost behind the glitter. Look at the Jewish float, The Stars of David Come Out. This was a vary camp entry, full of colour, skin, glitter etc. None of its message was lost behind the glitz. In fact, it has drawn a very strong reaction with not only the local Jewish Community but in teh wider community as well. If they marched behind one banner in thier jeans & a t-shirt, I wonder where the opportunity for this group to convey their message would be? I wonder if anyone would have known that they were a Jewish group of Gays & Lesbains marching or would they be just another gay or lesbian in jeans & a T-shirt. This colourful entry hightlights the focus of the parade very clearly. It is a cival rights march. The way in which the parade has evolved, with colour, flesh, sex etc has not masked any of the political messages that we are trying to convey.
5:55 - Fri Mar 24 17:04:59 2000
Live and let live - Fri Mar 24 15:30:38 2000 - If we are all different, and diversity is our strength, why do so many gay men feel the need to dress the same, go to the same gyms, listen to the same music, trash the people they don't like (usually the same people) parrot the same opinions and live identikit lifestyles. Where's there diversity in that?
Fri Mar 24 17:20:46 2000
Oh look, let's just form a politically correct collective with gender parity and sit around talking (in turn of course) about all of this for the next 20 years, achieving nothing but feeling very nurtured, while the evil patriarchal misogynist racist capitalist party boys go do their thing and get on with living ... shall we?
Fri Mar 24 18:58:00 2000
Ah...hate to drop this onya babe but gay men dressed the same in 78 as well - cept it was all taches/checked shirts/jeans and runners. They'd started gymming, they dished the same people and they all went to the same places and danced to the same music. I think it may have had something to do with finding the same attractiveness in each other's persona.
Fri Mar 24 22:22:30 2000
and could we stop talking of the 78'rs as if they were a bunch of dateless, politically-committed, social workers? They lived, laughed, f*cked, drank, did drugs, were bad, good, outrageous, camp, butch, boring much like dykes and poofs today. Well...not quite as f*ckin boring......................
Fri Mar 24 22:32:13 2000
Can everyone please leave the party boys alone. It is their right to spend all their time in the gym, wearing fantastic little shorts on very cold days and take enough drugs to completely re-arrange their brain chemistry for the next hundred years and then dance for days till they keel over.
Sat Mar 25 0:52:06 2000
From what i've read, in '78 there were Political Demonstrations during the day and a festive carnival like march (with sound system on a truck even!) in the evening. Its interesting to see what the authorities found more threatening!
Zakalwe - Sat Mar 25 9:22:42 2000
Let's try to answer this question first: What message(s) should the parade be sending?
Panther - Sat Mar 25 9:36:45 2000
And additional question that should be answered is "what message is being recieved?" There have been many cases in history where the message being sent and the message being received have been two completely different things.
Sat Mar 25 20:35:09 2000
Before I answer, could I observe that the sad little person who continually posts, pretending to be his/her idea of a clearly personally-unattainable mythical gay stereotype is unlikely to enhance his/her chances of inclusion by pretending to be a drug dealer? Thanks.
Sat Mar 25 21:06:44 2000
Before I answer, could I observe that the sad little person who continually posts, pretending to be his/her idea of a clearly personally-unattainable mythical gay stereotype is unlikely to enhance his/her chances of inclusion by pretending to be a drug dealer? Thanks.
Sat Mar 25 21:16:20 2000
You shouldn't presume to know who is posting to this board. Nor how many people are posting.
Sat Mar 25 21:29:32 2000
What's happening with the bisexual issue? Mardi Gras?
Sun Mar 26 23:56:14 2000
My opinion. I felt this years parade was less colourful. I was impressed by the Jewish part of it though. I have since heard about the backlash in the Aust Jewish News though. Gee, am trying hard not to uspset anyone here by typing this, but I am not Jewish. Applauded the police sector. Who wouldn't? To be honest, I was unsure about the bi's and I do not understand that part of sexuality I guess. Friends and I just 'watched' them go by and our feelings were one of, 'make a decision'. So if that was our reaction, just wonder what the reaction was from the 'straights' watching the parade? Am open minded but kinda feel that it is a Gay and Lesbian event. Everyone to their own thing I guess. Still, back to basics, pissed me off that I was berated by a guy dancing with his ? girlfriend for kissing my boyfriend on the dance floor of the RHI at 5am! I thought it was a gay and lesbian dance party?
Mon Mar 27 1:11:09 2000
Wow. So you mean to tell me that right after the parade you were a victim of homophobia. And I thought the parade had cured homophobia.
Mon Mar 27 8:32:06 2000
Mon Mar 27 1:11:09 2000 - Why don't you make up your mind, will you continue to identify as a bigot or will you attempt to understand that sexuality is a little more complicated then your narrow definition of a Gay/Straight dichotomy? And for your information most straights believe bisexuals are already a part Mardi Gras, if you had any friends other then gay males you might actually know this, my recommendation is for you to get out of the ghetto and ask a few people.
Mon Mar 27 17:33:44 2000
Mon Mar 27 1:11:09 2000 - Is Mardi Gras a Transgender event in your opinion? If not you should lobby to have them removed, as they are equal members to Gays and Lesbians, and many identify as having a straight sexuality, also to use your argument "those silly trannies should choose whether they are a man or a women".
Mon Mar 27 17:49:22 2000
In answer to the questio