Love 7: Breaking Up

down dooby doo down down, comma comma
down dooby doo down down
breaking up is hard to do

Don't take your love away from me
Don't you leave my heart in misery
'Cause if you go then I'll be blue
'Cause breaking up is hard to do

Remember when you held me tight
And you kissed me all through the night
Think of all that we've been through
And breaking up is hard to do

They say that breaking up is hard to do
Now I know I know that it's true
Don't say that this is the end
Instead of breaking up I wish that we were making up again

I beg of you don't say goodbye
Can't we give our love just one more try?
Come on baby, let's start anew
Since breaking up is hard to do

They say that breaking up is hard to do
Now I know I know that it's true
Don't say that this is the end
Instead of breaking up I wish that we were making up again

Neil Sedaka & Howard Greenfield


Love 6: Unrequited
Love 8: Unconditional
Copyright (C) Pinkboard, 2000. Not to be reproduced without permission. The opinions expressed on this wall are not necessarily those of Pinkboard. Racism, sexism, libel and other offensiveness is not welcome. Pinkboard reserves the right to edit any contributions. Please use smileys to make sure your humour is understood. If you have any concerns about the content of this Graffiti Wall please email me (Panther).
I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation.....
it's a beautiful sight! - Mon Jun 19 23:42:21 2000

Love is the happiest emotion in the world. For those who have it, they are wholly blessed. Those who do not are forever lost. Love, as it is said, makes the world go 'round. Without it, we are a race that is doomed. How light and joyous is our heart when we are loved. How dark and desolate our life is when we are not. Look to the skies in your search for love, for love is on its way to you, my sisters and brothers. You are all loved by me! From now until the end of time.
For You. - Tue Jun 20 2:55:31 2000

Love is a stranger In an open car To tempt you in And drive you far away
nik - Tue Jun 20 13:28:41 2000

Look to the skies alright. Look up and you get crapped in the eye by a bird. Wow isn't that symbolic of love!
Tue Jun 20 15:51:40 2000

Please, please let this be what I have been hoping for for so long...
fingers crossed - Tue Jun 20 20:22:05 2000

My mother always taught me to keep my legs crossed for a long as possible. It'll make him respect you more.
Tue Jun 20 21:54:31 2000

yawn
Wed Jun 21 12:42:28 2000

yawn has not found love yet.
Wed Jun 21 15:14:13 2000

yawn wouldn't see love if it came up and bit him on his arse. he is the typical jaded queen who has lost all faith in the goodness of life and the world (either through some life shattering experience or more likely from doing too much drugs).
Wed Jun 21 18:44:33 2000

Love is ... holding the woman of your dreams in your arms, and telling her that she means the world to you and that you couldnt live without her and that you will love her all the days of your life. Euphoria/Bliss is ... that same woman telling you that she feels the same. Heartbreak is ... that same woman telling you that you are silly, she's only in for a little fun and that committing to you is the *last* thing she wants to do!
Been There. - Wed Jun 21 23:24:35 2000

Heartbreak is...being in love with a woman who says she wnats and needs your love but is not herself capable of love. Who asks you to be in a relationship with her, who goes through the motions and who dumps you and runs off with someone else.
Done that - Thu Jun 22 8:04:51 2000

Sweet mother of Jesus, look at all these hearts!
Noreen - Thu Jun 22 13:54:11 2000

Simon you bastard, I hope your happy hith Hedda Lettuce. Hedda don't come knockin on my door.
Foofy - Thu Jun 22 13:57:47 2000

Love is the ultimate adulterer, playing around with every persons heart.
scarred but not bitter - Thu Jun 22 13:58:07 2000

Love love load of crap. How oppressive it is to chase after something that can reduced to chocolates, flowers and blue skies, just so that we can feel empty when it's not realised. An oppressive ideal. Less talk and more action guys. Go out there and do it. You may think I'm jaded but I reckon I'm just realistic. BTW, I've been happily with my boyfriend for over a year.
Dome - Thu Jun 22 15:28:06 2000

Your wrong. I live in a very loving relationship with my boyfriend.Its all about love, respect,honesty, friendship and really enjoying each others company. It is not based on obsession, control, seperation or one of us not loving the other and feeling heartbroken and tragic as so many postings on this wall seem to be.Its a happening thing.
yawn - Thu Jun 22 18:13:16 2000

Is that why you are yawning?
Thu Jun 22 18:46:40 2000

Precisely, "Done That"!!! We either get the ones who say they just want a bit of fun and was not interested in anything longterm..or we get the ones who want to play along for a while, mess with your mind and your heart and then walk away when they are bored and seek a new 'plaything'!! These women have no hearts or souls and are just plain mean! Where are the ones who want the love and committment of a loving and complete relationship?!?!?!
Been There. - Fri Jun 23 0:34:24 2000

The ones who want the love and commitment of a loving and complete relationship are out there, waiting. Believe it and imagine yourself meeting them and you will. Carry on expecting to meet those who mess you around and you will.
For you Right on!
Free Spirit - Fri Jun 23 8:21:07 2000

Love is the most beautiful one human can give another and I count myself very lucky to have found "the one". I love you 'Fredrick', you really are my pot of gold.
Bubba (g.l.) x0xoxoxo - Fri Jun 23 18:56:22 2000

Thank you Free Spirit. I just wanted to post that to show everyone that you are *all* loved...and to never think that no one in this world loves you, you are *not* alone. *s*.
For you. - Sat Jun 24 0:19:24 2000

I still sit on the fence. I am jaded, bitter twisted so I agree with hating love. But at the same time I am free, happy, open and learning unconditiional love so I agree with Free Spirit. What is right? What is wrong? Neither. Its all how the person looks at it. I refuse to submit, no matter how idealistic this sounds, to the notion that gay (and lesbian of course) relationships are impossible, come with huge amounts of baggage, don't work because of society etc etc. At the same time I experience rage, depression and hatred and giving up thinking that men are all creeps and don't have committment. The thing is having two views at once is a transition and this board helps greatly. Please to those that put Yawn or boring I respect that what is written can be annoying or dumb but it is important and as others have said scroll past them.
Idealistic Pessimist - Sat Jun 24 10:42:12 2000

i have been in a relationship now for 6 yrs on july 1st, I don't have the exact answers on how to make all relationships survive and thrive forever but have learnt a few things over the years. don't ever let anyone make you feel like you have to be someone else alway BE yourself. *compromise* without denying yourself or partner so much it is painful. If they shit you tell them nothing like airing a few grieviences back and forth to clear the tension. you are in a relationship because you want to be no other reason. if you find yourself asking who this dickhead is should you be there too. you want monogomy then stick to your guns feeling sick about your partners sexual exploits does not make for a happy life. make your partner feel special go out of your way sometimes to do this they deserve it and so do you. giving and taking are equally important both fluctuate during a relationship. and finally be happy really happy or move on you are not responsible for another persons feelings look after no.1 first and foremost.
still loving and happy - Sat Jun 24 23:14:40 2000

Good posting above but let me ask you or someone else this. This posting is relevant to friendships as well. I think it is an empty person who does not want to see you. Sure if something happens you may want to move away from the person or place but the problem comes again in some other form. My friend treated me badly, I don't blame him or me but it hurt like hell and I don't have the guts (until now) to be assertive about it. Pessimist's posting makes the point as does Free Spirit that the baggage of gay/lesbian relationships can be overcome. I believe this too so its up to us not to be told by others love between people of the same sex is not possible because they do.
Yep - Sun Jun 25 12:18:37 2000

What a double edged sword Real Love is, How quickly Heaven can turn to Hell. Needless to say it's an exceptional educator if we listen and learn to over come bitterness and become wiser instead. Makes for a more fulfilling time if Love presents it's self again. Wish I had "still loving and happy"s insight 12 months ago.
mb - Sun Jun 25 14:49:30 2000

maybe it's not an empty person but a hurting person who doesn't want to see you again, i have agonised for love like most people and the easiest ( if there is an easy way ) way to deal with it was total cut off no being friends nothing. time is the only true healer i believe and in time things seem to become less painful and more tolerable until then plenty of milkshakes and a few good ears to dump in. remeber nothing and nobody is worth feeling worthless or useless or no good or hopeless over when the pain is gut deep and the head won't shut up hold a mirror in front of you and talk honest and frankly about how you feel and maybe why as well tell yourself the good things you are made of and why you are worthwhile and useful and good sounds stupid but it might help. there is no such thing as an ugly or stupid or unlovable person.
rm - Sun Jun 25 15:37:56 2000

These heart things make my eyes go funny when I scroll
nik - Sun Jun 25 19:31:36 2000

The problem rm with that is that whilst cutting off may work for some it does not work for all and we all "hang on" to something. The major lesson I learnt is whilst time heals and cutting off can be good the problems are with me. They come back but in another person or situation so therefore not seeing someone does not always solve the problem. Besides we have forever and are all going to the same place in the end so there going to be there.
Mon Jun 26 10:45:47 2000

nik, Look away when you scroll, personally, I have a small gambling problem , and these hearts look like my favourite poker machine. I've already pawned all the icons in our chapel, and substituted them for cheap immitations I made myself using tissue paper, cigarette ash and spit. Thankfully most of the other sisters are too drunk to notice
Sr Naphthalene - Mon Jun 26 15:53:23 2000

Oh dear who has been watching Dark Habits on SBS lately?
If I could melt your tart - Mon Jun 26 16:08:34 2000

I wasa seeing this girl about 18months ago and ended up being left and getting a broken heart. It took a long time to *forget* her and now I am happy with someone else but I still think of her a bit. Evertime I think I have forgotten about her I see her or have a dream about her and the old feelings come back. I feel like its God or the universe or someone playing a creul trick by not letting me get over her, why is this? happening
cheyne - Tue Jun 27 12:38:18 2000

This is pure crap and illustrates my point. Cheyne this is normal, it does not mean you don't love your new person and its all part of the process. I work with the aged sometimes and some have been married for 50 years and they tell me they still think of their childhood or first love or first husband and they do so without regret. See Free Spirit all this "crap" about letting go. You don't have to let go of things or people it is the things in your mind, heart and spirit. Cheyne perhaps its just their is something unfinished, I mean although it is good not to judge your new partner by old standards it is normal and natural. It is not cruel. It proves that you are moving towards unconditional love where although you are with a new person in a new life the old will come back. It does not mean you don't love the old person its just you are with the new person. Please for f**k's sake people let go and move on is not cutting off or not seeing forever someone but when the old things come back treat them as harmless pets, pat them on the head and go "oh yes we did that or yes that hurt" but I am in the present. I love my man a lot and he is with someone else now and I love the man before that but importantly I love myself a lot more from these experiences. I wish you endless blessings Che, relax accept the old images as part of you like the repository that the mind and spirit is and be with your new partner. For god's sake all for all his ranting over the months I am convinced Free Spirit is more right than ever.
Learning - Tue Jun 27 15:21:37 2000

are you?
Tue Jun 27 16:15:59 2000

Love is........coming home and being greeted with a great big hug and lots of kisses and spending the night cuddled up together on the sofa just enjoying each other's company. Heartbreak is.......coming home to an empty house, being greeted by the sound of total silence and sitting alone wondering where she is and then going to bed with an empty space beside you.
Where is she??? - Wed Jun 28 1:08:02 2000

Love is...not feeling like anything is missing in your life.
Wed Jun 28 12:09:18 2000

Love is yourself first, he she second.
Wed Jun 28 15:55:38 2000

Love is .... a crock
Thu Jun 29 15:51:00 2000

Love is when you ignore the erection.
Footy Stud - Thu Jun 29 16:10:59 2000

Love is ... when you post after him...sigh
Foofy - Thu Jun 29 20:17:50 2000

Love is... making him do everything around the house and then some
Jabba the slut - Thu Jun 29 21:02:22 2000

to where is she, i don't mean this to sound funny but have you considered animals, i know they can't replace people but when their little eyes light up and the tail wags and the noises they make just because you are home can make coming home a better and easier thing to do. p,s also doubling as a bed warmer is nice too ...xx good luck xx
Thu Jun 29 22:16:54 2000

oh jabba , not nice, love is when they choose to do everything around the house because they love u and then you treat them to a night out, movie or theatre dinner a few wines a walk along your fav street with a coffee stop a beer at the local gay pub with friends a kiss and cuddle in the car park near the beach skinny dipping ( recommended warmer weather or can cause extreme shrinkage ) locking the animals outside, putting plastic sheets on the bed large amounts of oil or vaseline or some type of slippery substance candles favourite music incense letting your inhibitions off for the night and don't forgt to take the phone off the hook, now bet you'll sleep well after a shower of course where if things are going well could start another session.
Fri Jun 30 12:53:39 2000

I'd rather sit on my custom made divan, and watch pipsypops dust in his G-string
Jabba the slut - Fri Jun 30 13:31:08 2000

love is...my doona and my video
Fri Jun 30 14:48:17 2000

Love is going to a party (tomorrow night) and kicking my ex and his new boyfriend in the nuts and giving two fingers to karma.
Beyond Annoyed and Caring - Fri Jun 30 16:18:11 2000

Gee what am I supposed to do with these two fingers?- Yuck!!
Karma - Fri Jun 30 20:01:19 2000

Love is.....swapping habits with Sr Amonia-lee
Sr Naphthalene - Fri Jun 30 20:09:31 2000

Love is...strong feelings of attraction towards and affection for another adult, or general affection for a friend or family member.
Bleedin obvious - Fri Jun 30 20:26:18 2000

Love is....watching him hand wash my undies
Jabba the slut - Fri Jun 30 23:03:16 2000

to "anon": yes, thank you very much for that; I do indeed have a little pussy cat of my very own and love her to absolute bits!!! She is the most special thing in my life right now, but there is one thing that a pet cant do that a woman can -- say I Love You, and Want To Spend My Life With You. Yes, pets are lovely company, but sometimes we need that little extra from a 'mate'.
Where is she?? xxxx - Sat Jul 1 2:37:20 2000

Maybe try a Rotty.
Sat Jul 1 12:44:30 2000

Love is washing Jabba's underpants.
Sat Jul 1 13:11:52 2000

cheyne - As Learning says it is perfectly normal to still feel something for your ex after 18 months, or even 50 years. If you feel that you are stuck then (again as Andrew says) there may be something unfinished that you need to resolve. There are many ways to bring some closure, such as writing a letter explaining how you feel (no need to post it), symbolically burying the old relationship by, say, burying a picture of her in the garden, or even just talking about it with friends or with your current partner.
Panther - Sat Jul 1 15:32:31 2000

Love is...watching him loofa my butt
Jabba the slut - Sat Jul 1 17:47:46 2000

Panther I do agree but my experience of most things is the myth of letting go, moving on and closure. For example how many times have you visited somewhere and a childhood memory comes back. I don't think human's have closure as such, if you learn a trade or hobby it tends to stick with you and only gets built upon. My point is, I love two people from my past deeply but it is not stopping me from forming new relationships, in fact I have learnt from them so that the next person will be better. I know more and can apply it. I understand the need for people to move house, cut off contact or even move cities but basically the mind and spirit stay the same. I just don't see why we can't be comfortable with ourselves because trying to block out a past lover, job, city whatever does not always work. They are a part of the human experience and remembering history means the things that happened do not have to occur again. Cheyne if you read this you can do the symbolic gestures but again I would just go "ok I am thinking that but its the year 2000 and I am with this person." Letting go can be an unhealthy obsession unattainable because the bad feelings get attention; better to accept yourself and the things that happened and look at them like museum pieces.
Learning - Sun Jul 2 12:25:00 2000

by letting go i don't think it means completly forgetting but allowing yourself to heal the hurt, letting the unhealthy desire for this person to consume your life. I have many times when an ex will pop into my mind sometimes at the strangest times with my partner now but i don't cringe or wonder who their with etc but think hope their doing ok or laugh at sometime we had together and then just shrug and go oh well now what was i doing. i try not to form my new relatinships on the old either ( cant' be helped sometimes i know ) but rather let myself go and experience love all over again but it doesn't leave me open for more hurt breakups hurt anyway.
Sun Jul 2 18:02:37 2000

Someone who smiles when I walk into the room.
Maya - Sun Jul 2 21:25:03 2000

We met through a mutual friend..... Love at first sight when I met him ..... but he had a boyfriend. Heart almost burst when I heard they broke up - but sad to see him unhappy. Then, (months)later I bumped into him and he kissed me and wished me happy birthday. Haven't seen him since. "Mutual friend" back in the country ..... I will tell him how I feel this time.
Sun Jul 2 23:53:04 2000

My gf broke up with me because she said I was "too nice" for her. My friend tells me that everyone that meets me says I am a really nice person. The trouble is, I seem to be too nice. I don't know how to play games with people or be 'naughty', whatever that means! I can't do one-night stands and I can't flirt with people in a bar. I'm just nice nice nice. I don't want to change who I am just to get a partner, but at the same time my naivety and innocence is starting to depress me. Is it always like this in the lesbian world? I've only just come out 6 months ago.
jess - Mon Jul 3 8:01:51 2000

Don't worry Jess after a coupla years in the lesbian scene you'll turn bitter and twisted like the rest of us, and find out your moral fibre is a fragile thing.
nik - Mon Jul 3 10:17:29 2000

Amen!!!
Former Miss Goody 2 shoes - Mon Jul 3 11:19:29 2000

Jess hang in there be yourself. If your "too nice" its their problem. You are unique and to say you are too nice is nothing short of shallow and rude. Better a Saturday night in bed alone being the self rather than someone else. Good luck Jess.
Mike - Mon Jul 3 15:41:10 2000

Jess - If someone uses the excuse that you are "too nice" then this is just a way of saying you are not right for them. It is just a reason to break up. No need for you to try to stop being nice, as long as you are aware that people may take advantage of this. It is very rare that the first person we meet is the right one for us, and vice versa.
Panther - Mon Jul 3 20:27:14 2000

thankyou Mike and Panther very much... makes me feel better :)
jess - Tue Jul 4 7:46:20 2000

Disagree Panther in regards to Jess. Saying "too nice" as a way of saying "oh you are not right for me" is appalling. If someone said that to me they would get a slap in the face. I must use that line if I don't like someone; "oh you are too nice, too fat, too thin, too muscular, too ugly, too beautiful". Would not be surprised if I end up with a tooth missing from a king hit. What ever happened to the soul inside someone not their personality, looks or anything? Oh hang on I am being tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo "fill in the blank"
Be yourself, you can't be no one else - Tue Jul 4 15:44:37 2000

Disagree Panther in regards to Jess. Saying "too nice" as a way of saying "oh you are not right for me" is appalling. If someone said that to me they would get a slap in the face. I must use that line if I don't like someone; "oh you are too nice, too fat, too thin, too muscular, too ugly, too beautiful". Would not be surprised if I end up with a tooth missing from a king hit. What ever happened to the soul inside someone not their personality, looks or anything? Oh hang on I am being tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo "fill in the blank"
Be yourself, you can't be no one else - Tue Jul 4 15:44:50 2000

Jess, just carry on being who you are! There really isn't any point in becoming bitter and twisted. For everyone to say to you that you are a really nice person - wow! what a great situation to be in!
Free Spirit - Tue Jul 4 21:52:29 2000

All this stuff about letting go, and then We met through a mutual friend..... Hmmmm. Been there - unrequited love at first sight for someone who is already in a relationship - and I never want to return! (and never will) That was emotional torture, it started over two years ago and he still comes into my mind from time to time. I'm over him, well over him, I know he wouldn't have been right, but I'd still like to meet up just once and say 'thanks' for turning my life around (it needed it) and being the catalyst for where I am now. But that can't happen, which for me is a shame, and possibly for him too. I've done it now, but moving on is hard to do.
Free Spirit - Tue Jul 4 22:00:13 2000

Free Spirit; Some say that writing a letter (not neccessarily delivered, you can keep it to yourself) to say all those unsaid things that you wanted to say but couldn't can be a great help to get those feelings out in the letting go process. Sort of a transferance from your mind onto the paper in some ways of those difficult feelings. We tend to look at our lives and outcomes of decisions we make in such linear, negative and narrow ways. In reality, things twist and turn unexpectedly and the "dreaded breakup" (or acceptance of unrequited love) could in fact be a catalyst as you experienced that changes our lives in positive ways we never saw at the time. It's always darkest before dawn (I love metaphors!) and we should never overly pre-empt the future at times of a difficult crisis or decision point in our lives (it's normal to do that though). Moving on is hard but often opens up new windows that could be the best things to happen to us. Good on you for feeling some achievement there after the emotional pain and trying to change your life for the better.
Twist and turns of destiny - Wed Jul 5 10:02:53 2000

If I do a one line posting do I still get fourteen of those stupid hearts ?
Wed Jul 5 23:22:37 2000

Well, that answered that one . . . now to solve world poverty and stop poo smelling.
Wed Jul 5 23:24:07 2000

Love is.....meeting lots and lots of new friends and finally having a full calendar!! :0)
Thu Jul 6 0:00:03 2000

Jess--If people are saying you are too nice, then what they are saying is that you are not the type to be 'breaking the rules' or into anything weird. Tuff Luck! I, too, am exactly like you. People have told me that I am too nice, too goodygoody and not worth 'being' with because of it. Hang in there grrl! Ms Right is just around the corner for you. She is the one who takes you as you are and loves what she sees. For her, nice is normal and just the way she wants it to be. She's out there honey, just you wait and see! [failing that, you can always hook up with me! ;)] All the best of luck and remember: "To thine ownself be true!"
Ms GoodyGoody - Thu Jul 6 0:06:03 2000

hehe thanks, Ms GoodyGoody :)
jess - Thu Jul 6 7:59:31 2000

ahh Ms GoodyGoody you've even inspired me to hang in there abit longer. :)
MsGuided - Thu Jul 6 9:19:31 2000

Oh dear I am toooooooooo nice oh the shame the shame, I will go out and yell "bum" in the street and I won't get a boyfriend. Give me the names and addresses of those that say you are all too nice and I will get my S & M boots into gear.
Thu Jul 6 18:05:42 2000

You're very welcome, Jess.xx Attagirl, MsGuided! Thats the way! All the best to both of you.
Ms GoodyGoody - Fri Jul 7 0:52:01 2000

We met through a mutual friend. Are you for real? What a joke.
Sat Jul 8 13:48:23 2000

lmao@Anon - thanks, whoever you are!
jess - Sat Jul 8 19:00:18 2000

Jess....I'm 22, gay (lesbian),nearly 'out' and I understand exactly where you're coming from! People are always saying how nice I am but when it comes to wanting a friendship, they seem to leave me behind. To tell you the truth, I think people are intimidated by 'kind' and 'generous' people because it is people like ourselves who have a sense of respect for humankind and obviously *they* envy this! People also hate it when 'good natured' people achieve well in life and all they want to do is 'pull' you down (tall poppy syndrome). One way they do this is to exclude you from things, espescially when it involves socialising with *their* friends. They do this because they're insecure about themselves and their ability to maintain a secure and lasting relationship with others. Just remember....it's *not* you, it's them. What ever you do - don't change who you are because deep inside of you is a very beautiful person. This outweighs any popularity contest!
understand fully! - Sat Jul 8 20:04:29 2000

personally when i was single i went for not so "nice" people for strictly sex, anonymous dirty (in the clean way ) uninhibited mattress thumping hot sex. But when i was looking for a lonterm partner i wanted someone "nice" because i wanted all the nice things in life, love , home, animals, holidays once a year etc etc and out there sex machines didn't seem to have the same idea i did meet nice people and have met one special one ok maybe the sex isn't earthshattering but it comes with true emotion and real love like our life outside the bedroom and i have total faith and trust in my lover something i never thought would come from some scene person whos interest never got above the belt ( sorry and apologies for those who do have the same interest )good fun and sowing my seeds was fun and i met some good people but i had to reach deep inside myself and reasses my own morals and wants and needs to find my true love and they maybe a little prudish, conservative but hey deep down so am i.
Nice is nice - Sat Jul 8 23:01:11 2000

Nice is nice, Who says a man/woman can't be 'nice', as well as 'mattress thumpingly hot'?. Why do you think it has to be a choice of one over the other, & how long do you think you could put up with dreary, unimaginative sex?
Sun Jul 9 10:12:14 2000

i'm nice is nice not the monkey posting idiots, i didn't say both could be one but never really found scene people or promiscuous people etc to be the settling down type i didn't say all were like that only my personal experience which is what these walls are all about don't attack me because i shared some of my life.
nice is nice ( the real one) - Sun Jul 9 13:52:41 2000

Nice is nice: I liked your posting. For years I was trapped, as many on this wall seem to be, in a cycle of "loving" and wanting people who did not respond in the way I wanted them to.I jusified this to myself by always thinking they had the problem. It was they that were frightened of commitment, unable to be intimate etc etc etc. After some deep soul searching and reality checking I came to the conclusion that it was actually me who had the problem and if I did not address it my life would continue to be a series of agonising though exciting relatioships destined to end in heartache. It was I who was frightened of commitment and scared of intimacy and consequently was attracted to people who deep down I knew would not threaten me as they were not totally available.Hiding behing the "soul mate" stategy and the "we really are meant to be together in the end" crap. When I accepted that I had the problem I was then in a position to deal with it. Now I have a great partner who I love and respect and trust. He is a really "nice" person. The first person who I've ever been involved with who treated me the way I wanted to be treated, with love and respect.i had to really work on changing the way I thought about things to achieve this and had to face a lot of things about myself that were not all that pleasant.Measuring a relationship on how hot the sex is is ridiculous.I measure my relationship by the ammount of enjoyment I find in my partners company and the time we share together.If the sex with your partner is the best you've ever had that thats great.But life is more than sex. To all the "nice" people out there. Please stay nice. There are enough arseholes out there.
Sun Jul 9 14:05:37 2000

i'm sorry, i'd like to retract my last posting, i was reaching deep inside myself as i usually do on a sunday and that sometimes makes me chafed and irritable. please disregard everything i've ever said about goat husbandry.
nice is nice (guess which one) - Sun Jul 9 14:13:56 2000

thankyou, understand fully and nice is nice!! I actually have just met a lovely girl who feels exactly the same way as I do! unfortunately, she's a backpacker who will only be in sydney for the next 3 months, but she's a real sweetie and thinks that me being nice is just swell.
so I still have faith!!!!
jess - Sun Jul 9 22:59:03 2000

how nice
Mon Jul 10 10:34:49 2000

That anon posting, the "soul mate" and looking inside oneself. I agree to a large extent on what you say. The only difference is that I cannot move on from that. I don't agree that it is always my fault or their fault, love in any form is not actually anyone's fault as such but by the time I get to the stage you are at I will be in a retirement home. Still I am so happy someone has reached the stage of realisation that I hope to find in this lifetime. I enjoy his company and the time I spend with him so much but he himself is scared and has another guy in love with him who my friend is not in love with. Regardless of the outcome I love this man unconditionally perhaps at my own expense but I guess that's learning isn't it? I hope one day I can move to the place where you are because it eats at me but it won't let go its like a pitbull with jaws clamped on my brain. Keeping busy, soul searching, positive self talk, talking to people have helped but I can't let go of the way I feel so why fight it. This love is a part of me and even if it goes to another person he is still someone I care and love. Anyway as it says in a good book I know "it is always darkest before the dawn, and my dawn is sure to come."
Mon Jul 10 12:05:22 2000

I would just like to know two things: how do you fall out of love with someone because keeping busy is not working I only end up more exhausted because I am fighting my being in love. Secondly what do you do when your friends start getting boyfriends and you are dumped? And then a few months later the same friends who dump you are ringing you up begging for you to go out. It depresses me when they get partners, ignore me and then I see them down on their knees at the sauna without the boyfriend and then they want to go out with me like the good old days.
What to Do - Mon Jul 10 17:54:45 2000

Ho hum. Here we go. We do not really know what love is. Too many think it is as they tend to portray it in the movies. Get real guys, wake upto yourself. All you can think of is a cute young thing hanging of yur arms. Wake up and get back to reality.
We need to get a life - Mon Jul 10 20:45:39 2000

Well love is something some of us find. How real is it then ?? Do we all look for Mr Right Away ?? All to often it is what happens.
Is there real love out here in western Sydney ?? - Mon Jul 10 20:47:41 2000

I like to read these comments but they always seem to have the same theme. Can't we chat abut other things ???
Big Yawn - Mon Jul 10 20:55:13 2000

What to Do - The only way I know to recover from love is to give it time and cry on friend's shoulders. With your supposed friends, if what they are doing coincides with what you are doing and you want company, then say yes.
Panther - Tue Jul 11 9:07:09 2000

Big Yawn, funnily enough this is called the 'love' graffitti wall and yes the recurring theme does appear to be 'love'
Tue Jul 11 9:15:22 2000

Unfortunately I think many of us have a concept of love that has been given to us by the media, television, movies, and popular music. life and love is not usually as it is portrayed in these media. It is as unrealistic as the body images that are given to us by the same industry. If these images of love are believed as real and "how things should be" then there is only dissapointment and heartbreak for 99.9% of the population. Although this is not too bad as heartache seems to be a necessity of poupular culture anyway. Why not look around in the real world to find examples of love. They are everywhere. they may not be as exciting and dramatic as the movies but they are real.
Tue Jul 11 11:31:47 2000

Big Yawn did you know the internet has millions of pages. Talk about something else? Let's see. Oh I know I want a dog.
No Yawn - Tue Jul 11 18:06:36 2000

wrong, you are a dog , so go sniff someone elses arsehole you are starting to make us yawn,
Tue Jul 11 21:21:26 2000

you're a funny guy!
Wed Jul 12 8:04:58 2000

Panther, your giving lost love 'time' and 'crying' on friends' shoulders says lots about you. This is not good advice. A person must get back out there asap after a good cry. The only way to rekindle feelings of love is to actually find it again. There are no substitutes. And besides, your friends will get tired of your weeping and tell you to snap out of it, anyway!
You Know Who - Wed Jul 12 8:41:08 2000

You Know Who - Getting back out there to look for a new love as a way to drown the old love means you are just going to repeat your "mistakes" and look desperate. If you have really fallen in love, then you do need time to recover from that and rediscover yourself. You need to heal from the hurt. That time is different for each of us and different each time we fall in love. (For some it may be just long enough for one good cry.) Go out and get your rocks off and meet people by all means. Spend time with strangers and friends. Don't necessarily stop yourself falling in love. Try to enjoy life.
Panther - Wed Jul 12 9:26:02 2000

Agree totally Panther. And anyway if your friends get tired of you crying on the shoulder then just remind them when they do the same about the time they could not deal with you. Friends I have found over the past few weeks are more valuable sometimes more than family members who don't understand. Getting out there, moving on, getting over it, letting go does not always work. I think to say these things to others masks issues inside yourself. If you can't help your friend who is hurting say so and refer them to someone else. Panther keep giving advice because I would rather a live lovesick whinger then someone six feet under because I would not listen.
No Yawn - Wed Jul 12 10:02:47 2000

Having been in a monogamous relationship going on 15 years Panther, I believe I understand 'true' love more than you. My relationships before this one were long term. I am going on 40, and it is a fact the human mind must be continually stimulated in a forward direction. By all means cry Panther, but do not lament as your posts suggest.
You Know Who - Wed Jul 12 11:10:25 2000

You know who - if you have been in relationship for 15 years then its been a very long time since you had a broken heart. I disagree about 'getting out there' again. I made the mistake of trying to cover the hurt of lost relationships by getting into new ones, none of which worked, because in my haste to make the pain go away I was not choosing my partners wisely. After about half a dozen broken hearts, all the hurts all came crashing down and I had to grieve for them all at once. I would have to say that this would have to have the been the singlemost painful and desolate period of my life, which thankfully i survived through lots of lamenting, wailing and gnashing of teeth and through the patience of good friends. I would not reccommend this method of recovering from a broken heart.
finally worked it out. - Wed Jul 12 13:18:19 2000

You know who, have you forgotten what it was like to be broken hearted? :). I too am in a rel of 15 wonderful years but still remember the pain of unrequited love, and love gone sour (being told it was *over* in the cab-ride home!). It was truly an awful (though educational) experience. I believe you have to resolve issues first before you can move forward. How you accomplish that is *purely* an individual thing {personally I prefer the 'wallowing in my grief' method:)} but definitely the wrong thing to do IMO would be to jump straight into another relationship. Incidentally, it taught me who my fairweather friends were, and subsequently how to choose them wisely:)
At last my love is here to stay - Wed Jul 12 14:54:13 2000

You know who: Why does being in a monogamous relationship for fifteen years give you the idea that you know more about true love than someone who hasn't. What an arrogant arsehole you must be.You obviously know nothing.
Wed Jul 12 16:17:23 2000

Your posting says a lot about you, You Knoe Who. like your superficial amongst other things.
Wed Jul 12 16:37:23 2000

I don't think you should all be too hard on You Know Who. I know he is mostly wrong and again the swift responses indicate that unrequited love, break ups and all the issues are widespread in all of society. I love my friend so much it is awful when I know it seems he will be with another yet he still wants my friendship and I have to live with it. This wall has over the past few months provided a relief from the "living hell" including killing myself. I don't think he is being mean as such although you do have to question why read this wall go bitch on Gays or Off Topic or Party. But the fact remains: getting over it, moving on and cheer up don't work. Consistant examination of issues, positive self talk, talking to friends or gay & lesbian line and being kind to yourself work. Sometimes its a choice sometimes it isn't, sometimes its them sometimes its us who knows its different for all. The bottome line is I would rather see my friend happy with me or someone else then break up with somone I love. But love and break ups contribute to depression, suicide and violence so please You Know Who realise that this wall provides shared experiences and the comfort we are not alone and we are human and worth loving. So again Panther I urge you to dispense advice because Agony Aunt can save you from the pills, the gun or the rope. It did for me.
Wed Jul 12 18:06:17 2000

I think this wall is great to be able to share common experiences and know that you are not alone.
Wed Jul 12 20:34:09 2000

So many 'motherhoods' and so little detail. Is it any comfort to know that there is someone out there and love will find a way? Is it my problem or is it their problem? Is it about the length of time or is it about the quality of the relationship? Is it about monogamy or is it about something else? Is it physical and sexual or is it intimate and respectful? So many questions...so much to do to find the answers. And I am sooo tired of the turning wheel. Now, be brave. And don't look back. Don't look back.
moongod - Wed Jul 12 23:32:25 2000

the key to a finding 'the one' is lots of chocolate, doing what you like to do and (i know this is a huge cliche) but when you're least expecting it you'll find them. God, this even makes me gag!!! but it does have a grain of truth. I have been in a relationship for 3 years and that's how it happened for me....Reading this wall, i really hope that all of you who are in pain find alittle comfort in knowing your soulmates are out there...don't give up. xoxoxx
----->----->@ - Thu Jul 13 0:03:35 2000

moongod - When someone only writes a few sentences it is very hard to understand exactly where they are coming from, so I guess and suggest a solution that may or may not be appropriate. This is advice, not counselling. When I was counselling with the GLCS of NSW I found calls often went for an hour. For some people this is only a beginning and they need a series of counselling sessions.

The rest of your message was asking "What works?" The only answer I can give is that you and your partner are the only ones who can work that out. I read a book years ago (can't remember what it was called) which from a series of interviews with gay couples. It interviewed them separately and together and asked all your questions. There were no answers, only differing points of view. The powerful thing about the book is you could read it and suddenly say Aha! when you read the one you feel is right for you. (To whoever has my copy, please return it.)
Panther - Thu Jul 13 9:23:26 2000


Yes I remember that book, It was called: Feeling out way and was co authored/compiled by Danny Vadasz (and?). It showed the diversity within gay relationships. Interviewees were asked questions ranging from: whether they had sex on the first date, to who takes out the garbage etc.
Thu Jul 13 11:19:14 2000

That should read: 'Feeling our way'
Thu Jul 13 11:21:30 2000

I believe that it is very subjective to state that break ups, unwanted love and other issues are our fault or their fault or God's fault or Society et al. This again is why this forum is vital because if it helps with people getting rid of blame, especially with themselves, then that is great. I read today that God breaks up relationships for our highest good. Well yes that can be true but it may also not be true. Again its just another way of dealing with the things we carry. As for saying love is overused on this board or in society yeah sure of course that is true, however, most if not all humans want it in some form or another. Maybe we should not make such a big deal about it and that may solve some things.
A Person - Thu Jul 13 19:02:44 2000

why not make a big deal about love, its wonderful and exciting. make looking for love an adventure sometimes your the hunter sometimes the prey , if it works great if not "next". sounds very simplistic i know but after a good ripping of the heart out of my chest i found i could fall in love within five minutes of seeing or talking to someone but 9 times out of ten it never went more than one or two dates. but that was ok i didn't give the impression i was desperate to find love or a lover but was capable of deep emotional, sensual and uninhibited sex which to a lot of people translates into love, once we throw away the chains of desperation, and feel without another we are only half the better off we are.
Thu Jul 13 21:26:09 2000

huh?
Thu Jul 13 22:18:10 2000

Hello again...yes Panther that is true about this particular medium and how it isn't suited to going into things in depth. And I guess, most if not all of us, are taking at least a lifetime to work out the love thing - whether or not we are in or out of a relationship. And i agree with A Person - maybe we are making too big a deal of this love thing. What I mean is that ... the love which we make such a big deal of is *often* circumscribed by that 'riding off into the sunset' scenario, the monogamy and white wedding fantasy (tho' some of us are into love but not into this fantasy). And maybe we forget other expressions and channels of love - family, friends, the kindness of strangers even. Or even the channel just expressed. I guess that sometimes - not always - we (I) think that only that *one* person will do the trick, that there is a happily ever after with a Prince, yeah? And it's all an endless swinging from one to the other. Someone once said: "you don't love me enough" and the person he said it to replied: "when will it ever be enough". Which I guess sums it all really.
moongod - Thu Jul 13 22:28:34 2000

my god book the service and hand me the razor blades, now come on why is it such a big deal this love thing, don't wear you heart on your sleeve ( don't be a iceberg either ) and people won't be able to rip it up whenever they feel you are i assume adults so start acting like it my god if you are weak enough to let people ( i can accept once or twice ) continually fu## you over then basically you deserve all the pain you get after all you are in control of your own emotions not anyone else, get a backbone start taking control of your own life.
tough love - Fri Jul 14 13:10:33 2000

Crap Tough Love. No one deserves pain. With a nick like that perhaps you have experienced too much pain. No we all deserve happiness and love not pain. Pain may "teach" but it is not needed to show us love. The backbone is individual; love is a minefield sometimes, wonderful another time. Anyone who risks love and hurt has a backbone.
Fri Jul 14 15:17:18 2000

Love is an action
Fri Jul 14 20:54:36 2000

tough love, you are a very shallow person
Fri Jul 14 23:44:25 2000

This wall is about love. The subject has - by and large - had sufficient influence on those reading and posting to pre-empt any name-calling. Please lets keep it that way. There's no need for it.

Moongod... Maybe we do make too much of the 'riding off into the sunset, hand in hand...' scenario. It is extraordinarily wonderful when it happens, believe me. When you know that you'll still be deeply in love with that same person for decades to come, when the level of trust is complete. But I agree, it's not what everyone wants, and even if most people do at some time, it's not necessarily what everyone wants at every stage in their life. There's much more to life than being in a relationship. In many cases, other things have to happen first anyway to bring us to the stage or state where we are well-rounded enough to carry a full-on relationship through and to get the best out of it.
Free Spirit - Sat Jul 15 19:37:22 2000


i don't suppose that anyone will really bother to get to the end of this post but i would just like to take the time out to thank panther/pinkboard for providing the forum to finally find my soul's lost brother. It's been almost 18 months now of crazy ups and downs but the bond between us only seems to get stronger over time. Lord knows i've been given some pretty brutal kicks up the arse for my optimisim in the past, but i truly believe this love to be life long. To all out there, don't lose sight of yr essential connectedness with all of humanity. It seems to work most often that an individual love affair awakens this sense of connectedness, but (and trust me on this folks), it speeds things up so much by approaching it the other way around. (Sorry if that's kinda badly expressed) Too roo kiddies and take care....
ross - Sat Jul 15 20:50:44 2000

Exactly Ross. And if your object of love doesn't not love you, love them anyway.
Sun Jul 16 14:19:37 2000

Ross... Was this what you were saying: that instead of waiting to love someone and consequently love - be connected with - everyone else, try loving everyone else first, and then your true love will find you? Great stuff.
Free Spirit - Sun Jul 16 17:28:05 2000

Does anyone here like to big game fish? My family back home has always had a sports fishing boat, but it has been years since I have done any kind of serious fishing. I miss it. The sound and smell of the engines, the waves breaking against the hull, the sunshine and seagulls. I miss the exciting sound of the line flying off the reel when a fish is on. Oh!:(
You Know Who - Mon Jul 17 1:15:47 2000

I like to fish, YKW. What kind of fish and tackle are you into?
SunGod - Mon Jul 17 7:09:40 2000

flatheads
Mon Jul 17 21:38:40 2000

Way to go, Jess!!! Congratulations on finding a new love. See? I told you she is out there...now go get 'em!!! (now, if only there was one out there for *me*! ;0)). All the best for the future sweetie!
Ms GoodyGoody - Tue Jul 18 0:48:51 2000

Shaking myself out of the eclipse two nights later ... I think that it is great too to love everyone else first. And at the risk of sounding like a vapid pollyanna, love does make the world go round after all. (Is that how the saying goes?) However. I feel that it is imperative to add ... ***love yourself first*** Love everyone too often turns into a farce. Because in the end all that we are really doing is to attempt to win love for ourselves. And do so out of a perceived lack. I love you so you must love me too and everything will be fabulous. Reducing love into pure contract and economics. And I don't think that it works that way at all. And how to love oneself first? Now how's that as a topic for a board discussion? Luv youz all ...
moongod in a mood - Wed Jul 19 1:29:22 2000

Pollyanna :))))
Footy Stud - Wed Jul 19 10:19:00 2000

Love is an action
Wed Jul 19 18:58:49 2000

sex is an action - love is a state of mind.
MsGuided - Thu Jul 20 8:20:07 2000

No your wrong. Love is an action. It is obvious from many of the postings here that the objects of your desire do not love you as their actions show.
Fri Jul 21 12:17:29 2000

love is a state of mind expressed through action, I think. Love without action is meaningless as are actions without love.
moongod - Fri Jul 21 15:27:31 2000

Love is a verb. A verb is a doing word.
Fri Jul 21 19:47:50 2000

I'd love a bit of action!
Otis Sledding - Fri Jul 21 21:24:06 2000

Love is also a noun.
Sat Jul 22 0:40:40 2000

i long for a deep passionate sesual mind blowing kiss, you know the ones , their arms holding u carressing u , heads moving in sync, a mind frying uncontrollable explosion of lust, the warm glow of the after kisses slowly on the cheek the neck the eyes the forehead the ears mmmmmmmm oh well you never know whats around the corner.
my - Sat Jul 22 0:40:55 2000

then they look at you deeply, searchingly and say..."I'm not looking for a relationship right now" :(
Sat Jul 22 8:11:00 2000

......"but I wouldn't mind a threesome"
Sat Jul 22 16:17:13 2000

Love is most commonly used as a verb Ie. "I love you... him ...ice cream... etc". It can be a noun at times but people always get into trouble in thinking that love is only a noun because they never wind up "doing" love and so their loved one eventually takes a walk.
best just to remember it is a "doing" word - Sat Jul 22 16:47:45 2000

love is an obsessive compulsive disorder with seratonin transport thrown in as anaesthetic.
Sat Jul 22 23:47:26 2000

i just wanted the kiss, forget the relationship i can live without that, but the kiss mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm , sure you all know what i mean the first meeting the innocent brushing up against one another, the coy looks and smirks of lust, holding pinkies gently feeling the warmth and shape of their hand, pretending to whisper to accidently rub cheeks and smell their scent, admiring their neckware just as an excuse to put your hand on their upper body, placing your hand on their back pretending not to hear what they said now who knows what i mean,
own - Sun Jul 23 18:54:49 2000

I think you're talking about that much healthier obsession/compulsion called 'lust' & everybody here knows exactly what you mean. But isn't love often just lust with a future? Neither lasts that long as a rule, but lust always pretends to be temporary, while love always hopes it's forever.
Hard 'n Chillin - Sun Jul 23 23:38:43 2000

That aint lust, its intoxication (not the alcoholic type), and it has to be The nicest part of the whole ritual.
nik - Mon Jul 24 11:11:19 2000

exactly nik, spot on , who cares how long it lasts, ok in some corner of our being we wish it forever but in reality sometimes its as good as it gets, the lifelong fantasy can often be over and done with in a night, or an hour. But a memory can last forever.
memories - Mon Jul 24 21:27:35 2000

yeah just like we wish we could live in a constant state of orgasm!
huh! - Wed Jul 26 17:48:45 2000

Can't we?
Wed Jul 26 18:47:39 2000

I have found the best love, supportive friends. People you want to start a commune with, that every moment of live is worthwhile with. And they f**k like bunnies. I can't see greener grasses, Eden is mine.
bboy - Wed Jul 26 21:25:55 2000

moongod:i think you are right.
Thu Jul 27 11:21:01 2000

b boy I think you are righter, success is getting what you love, happiness is loving what you get.
Hard 'n Chillin - Thu Jul 27 21:54:08 2000

anyone heard the song from Fiddler on the Roof when Tevye asks his wife if she loves him? And remember the answer that she gives about what she's done for him etc. which means that she loves him and that's how the song ends? I love that song! Forget Matchmaker, Matchmaker!
moongod - Thu Jul 27 23:28:52 2000

My partner hardly ever tells me he loves me. But every day he does something to make me feel special, if i'm sick, he looks after me, if I'm down he cheers me up, when I'm happy he shares in my happiness, if i need help he gives it to me. It doesn't worry me that he is not a person who vocalises his love. He shows it. I know what I'd rather have , a partner who told me they loved me, or a partner who showed me he loved me. Love is an action.
Fri Jul 28 12:41:31 2000

absolutely, love is action. Saying I love you, is just a series of noices grouped together to make a common sound, which we call words. It doesn't mean anything unless you mean it, and the only way you can show you mean it, is by doing exactly that. Showing love, like U said, if your sick, he looks after you, if your down, he cheers you up. The whole "I love you" thing is extremely superficial, and people really should think of this when being told that someone loves them.
ben - Fri Jul 28 14:17:54 2000

This love thing is starting to sound like a really tricky cross between a job you never finish and a promise you never keep. Love is a wilful delusion between consenting deluders.
Marx Brother - Fri Jul 28 18:18:27 2000

Yes, of course love is in action. But it's also great to be told "I love you" by the man you love, knowing that he means it. Some people - and I'm one of them - need to hear those words.
Deep down, if someone says that they love you, you'll know how true that is.
Free Spirit - Fri Jul 28 20:13:44 2000

to be told and shown you are loved is truly an amazing experience, i love the words, i love the action i just love love. i had a partner many years ago who said i show you how i love u why do i need to say it, well its like this i have friends and family who in their own way show their love for me and visa versa its all nice and we are all happy but i need for that someone special to look me in the eyes and say i love you why i don't know maybe its a childish reassuring thing, maybe there words i never hear or have heard, maybe it makes me feel special who cares i need to hear it and all the excuses for not saying it only makes me want to hear it more.
i love and am loved - Fri Jul 28 22:34:58 2000

Well i guess if you need to hear it , you need to hear it. But how often?
Sat Jul 29 14:25:32 2000

Too often probably!
Sat Jul 29 14:29:07 2000

And,after putting words in someones mouth wouldn't you doubt their authenticity? I can think of better things to put in a lovers mouth than the words I have scripted him to say...
Marx Brother - Sat Jul 29 15:57:42 2000

who said you have to put the words in their mouths maybe they like saying it too and hearing it too, and as far as how often god its not a high school exam its life why put limits on things or should everything be in little boxes all labelled and cataloged perfectly or should it all be spontaneous and fun, stop questioning everything and enjoy it.
i loves ya all - Sat Jul 29 17:36:35 2000

I think 20 times a day is a reasonable amount, spaced at proper intervals of course...
Sat Jul 29 22:08:12 2000

20 times a day are you talking about sex, boy you must be tired and sore,
Sun Jul 30 0:40:20 2000

And, un-prompted,but kinda psychically atuned to when I'm having an emotionally needy quarter-hour. And I also so agree with the need for these "I love you!"s to be really spontaneous & fun, and like surprises that are occaisionally accompanied by like a gift, or a card,flowers perhaps,or chocolates.Actually cash would be a nice surprise every now & again. But, it's the spontaneous outpouring of "declared"love at regular intervals throughout the day - that's the main thing. Thanks, honey.
!@#$%^ - Sun Jul 30 0:43:16 2000

oh i want to fall in love with someone so that i can have an excuse to write int to this wall...
Shaerin Magoodies - Sun Jul 30 10:09:08 2000

thats being a whore !@#$%^ , true love is unconditional , maybe you should find a walking wallet to marry.
say it with honesty - Sun Jul 30 14:34:28 2000

Love is a lot of things - one of which is the wish to marry to celebrate and honour the commitments to each other. Anyody out there got a recommendation on which of the more liberal minded nations on this earth would bless a couple of foreigners like this Aussie and his mate, or who to ask, or where to look (a specific URL, but please no lobby groups or sites dedicated to changing the status quo - I want to marry now)
bride2B - Sun Jul 30 21:04:27 2000

Since love is an action, surely saying I love you constitutes an act which shows love. And it's not putting words in someone's mouth, Marx Brother. If he knows that I like to hear the words, and even if he isn't comfortable saying them, it is an act of love to say it. And as for bride2B ... Holland or Denmark have legal same sex marriages. If you're looking for that kind of thing. I reckon that it would be something to have a marriage in a foreign country and then go for a High Court case based on Australian recognition of such marriages. Challenge the dominant paradigm!!!
moongod - Sun Jul 30 23:04:57 2000

can i be flower girl ** :>
Bob - Mon Jul 31 22:07:51 2000

"I like to hear the words, even if he isn't comfortable saying them" Right. You run with that moongod and,if you need to,you tell yourself that those words "he isn't comfortable saying" are true. Or his. Act of love? More like act-out-love according to the script of your director/lover.While love may well be an action,actions such as these are hardly loving.They're demanding, and obedient, respectively. Don't kid yourself. You're just a needy emotional bully.
Marx Brother - Tue Aug 1 0:27:50 2000

I don't wanna be in love anymore. It hurts too much.
Tue Aug 1 11:41:17 2000

love is a word it cannot hurt you, your emotions dictate how u feel your path in life the one most of us choose sets us up to deal with emotional pain, people hurt not love , love is a description of an emotional response to a person or situation or whatever, to be deeply emotional about something which if it doesn't reach the standards we set ourselves will cause pain is not being in love.
k - Tue Aug 1 21:40:19 2000

Marx brother: you have said it all my darling. one needs to accept that showing love is the important thing. Love does not have to be spoken, it only has to be shown.
Tue Aug 1 22:29:49 2000

your opinion good hope you are happy living that way but some of us need , want and like to hear it why is that such a crime.
Wed Aug 2 14:09:28 2000

i think i may have found a boyfriend, i did not think it was possible in sydney. so far he seems perfect! oh my god i'm a gonner...
Shaerin Magoodies - Wed Aug 2 15:34:14 2000

Because it is really boring and tedious having someone demanding to be told that you love them. Love can not be demanded.
Wed Aug 2 17:34:54 2000

Love is pulling his shorts off and finding over 5 inches.
Wed Aug 2 18:23:35 2000

Love is shaking her hand and finding over 3 inches
Wed Aug 2 20:35:22 2000

if u find it hard to tell someone u love them maybe its your issues not theirs, and the 3 inch finger person that was a little tongue in cheek " :) ".
I - Wed Aug 2 22:08:10 2000

Love doesn't have to be anything spoken, or shown, to be true. The more we define it, and script it, and demand of it - the less we are able to recognise its profligate unpredictability. Love is a gift, and its givers are gifted. It isn't a bargain, or a deal, or a job. It's a gift, like a smile, that enriches its giver, as well as its gifted recipient.
Marx Brother - Thu Aug 3 1:09:04 2000

If you find it hard to tell someome you love them perhaps you don't have an issue. If you have to be told your loved and your with someone who finds it hard to or maybe does not want to and that bothers you then perhaps its your issue.
Thu Aug 3 17:30:15 2000

Yes,yes, yes,yes,yes,yes yes ,
Fri Aug 4 12:14:11 2000

I want you to tell me you love me, I want you to say that you love me, do you love me, tell me you love me, why won't you tell me, why cant you say you love me, you've got a problem, tell me you love me, say it, nag , nag , nag, nag , nag, nag , nag, nag, nag , nag , nag , nag , nag
Fri Aug 4 12:17:50 2000

Shut up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fri Aug 4 12:19:31 2000

maybe you were hassled to say you love someone, many of us wernt many of us have been in healthy mature relationships that showing, saying and other forms of expressing love was just that expressing love for one another, marx bro comments about love is this and that etc sounds a little too deep and hippy when in actual fact most people dont pull love apart like a lab rat and try to understand it , just let love guide you if u want to say it say it if you dont then be with someone who doesnt, does not saying it give you a feeling of staying safe and not opening yourself to hurt, have u said it b4 and gotten bitten, maybe another icon could be added to the personals those who say i love u and those who don't.
it a nice four letter word - Fri Aug 4 22:56:13 2000

Its both people's issue. I love my friend so much but I think he wants to live in the United States. I don't. It hurts. It doesn't hurt. Its too grey and complex. I told him I love him and he accepted it but we are not together. On the other hand its fine I can accept that. On the other hand it is sad. On the other hand it is great I have a friend I love. Perhaps this won't happen if I start using my other hand more often :)). Love people.
Sort of Unrequited Love But not exactly - Sun Aug 6 11:33:46 2000

Personal abuse deleted.

'Its a nice 4 letter word', sorry to talk about what love is or isn't ,but that actually is the topic of this board, and if discussing it strikes you as being too deep or hippy or laboratory-rat-ish then maybe you're in the wrong place.Try Mix 104, easy listening favourite hits, with none of the offensive stuff so you can keep it on all day...Savage garden, celine Dion, Air Supply...you'd like it, I think...
Marx Brother - Mon Aug 7 21:25:21 2000

On the topic of love and radio stations, to myself I knew I was affected by that four letter word when I started to relate and understand all those "love" songs played on the radio. Having fallen into love (and quite happilly still there) I am so glad I have had the fortune in my life to experience this powerful emotion. It sure as hell has twisted my life in many ways (good and bad) but I am so glad I've felt it, been able to give it and receive it.
Tuned in. - Tue Aug 8 9:00:14 2000

hey marx brother you sound a little groucho.
Tue Aug 8 21:25:01 2000

Was a little on the groucho side, which is dumb, but only in response, which is even dumber, but I admit it -which is less dumb.Everyone has a right to their expectations,and descriptions of love, and none of us are any righter than any others about its properties and pitfalls and potential. For me it is best when it least resembles a job, or ownership. But thats a prejudice like any other...
Marx Brother - Tue Aug 8 23:00:28 2000

Aah me! One would think that with the whole paragraph available the chances of quotes out of context would be slim. And there you have it - Context. Love is an action - to speak is an action. Speak the words in context and sure, I'd believe the words he says were true. Tell me you love me everyday and I'd probably start thinking there's something mechanical there and begin to question the sincerity of his words. Takes two to tango as the saying goes, no? I'd probably start to question my own sanity if I required him to tell me he loves me everyday nag nag nag. (I love that, by the way!, the posting I mean)Yes, to speak the words and say I love you when I know it is difficult for him to do is itself a gift. A gift to be treasured. Love can be expressed in many different ways, the question though is whether we recognise and appreciate the expressions of love. Including, **grin**, saying I love you. Far be it from me, who would choke on the thought of saying I love you, to limit the multifarious expressions of love. ps. Does posting messages on love on a love message board count as an expression of love?
moongod - Tue Aug 8 23:14:55 2000

Marx Brother: Keep posting. I like your thoughts.
Wed Aug 9 17:31:27 2000

i've felt love three times in my life and thats three times more than I expected. Its worth everything. If I were to die tomorrow I'd have lived a complete life, thanks to these three people. They gave to me that part of me which I couldnt give myself.
bwian - Wed Aug 9 19:59:33 2000

i love my dogs and they make me feel worthwhile when all else seems hopeless, sounds a bit weird but when they come to me and express in their own way how much they love me it is no replacement for a lover , partner or whatever they are called these days but i wouldnt give them up for all the false i love u's in the world.
R and S's dad - Wed Aug 9 21:27:22 2000

And, as they used to say in British comedy, "There's always my pussy to consider..."
Thu Aug 10 14:15:34 2000

your right, dogs are not a replacement for whatever.
Thu Aug 10 21:06:27 2000

Marx Brother , why the personal attack on it's a nice four letter word ? Is there really any need for that? If you *really* want to analyse Sydney radio stations....Mix106 (not Mix104) is easy on the ear. Triple J is full of bad attitude, Triple M - maybe you need a ute to enjoy it, etc. But that's my opinion, and in spite of the above, I can enjoy a bit of each of them at different times. It's each to their own, surely?

Moondog love is an action, yes, but much more importantly, it's a feeling, one that is all-pervading, one that once discovered, is a joy for life. And it needn't just be given only to one's loved one....I don't mean get your dick out with everyone else too, what I mean is, be loving to everyone that you can. Love is a way of life, being loving is a way of being.
Free Spirit - Thu Aug 10 22:00:09 2000


uh oh, my "new" friend has not called me for four days, i don't think that is a positive sign. i have left him two messages, but no answer, but i know he is really busy at work. am i just a wishin' and a hopin'... what should i do?
Shaerin Magoodies - Thu Aug 10 22:18:31 2000

Free spirit, I agree. Love is action, feeling, being. Seriously, I've been thinking about love and the postings on this board ... and honestly, I began to get a headache. Then I said to myself: darl, love is to be felt and experienced not thought through. And so, this is the last cerebral contortion from me on Love. And Shaerin, I empathise. Been there. I ranged from wishin' and hopin' to just completely spitting the dummy (in private) cutting my losses and move on (sometimes easier said than done). I guess it depends on how much stamina I have to sustain me through wishin' and hopin'. Sometimes it dries up faster than others. My well wishes go out to you...
moongod - Fri Aug 11 0:08:48 2000

Shaerin just get on with life , whatever is to become of this encounter will happen wether you stay at home by the phone or go out and get on with life, sure you want to know but is it worth missing out on life to find out , i think not, when they do or if they do contact u be flippant and tell them all u have been up to and dont let them feel like they have been making you stew over them ,
Fri Aug 11 0:24:00 2000

Shaerin' You should do what they do in the movies: ring constantly, send emails and send flowers. evrybody knows that persistance always pays off, and no amount of harassment can be considered stalking
Fri Aug 11 8:21:10 2000

Shaerin Magoodies - "Prepare for the worst but hope for the best" is my advice. Get on with the rest of your life, but don't give up hope quite yet. Personally I hate waiting so I always find something else to do. Sometimes I even forget I'm waiting. But patience can be very useful too.
Panther - Fri Aug 11 8:47:32 2000

Crikey, I sort of disagree with Panther (a bit). First time, I think. In more or less anything, if you prepare for the worst, then it's *far* more likely to happen than if you refuse to believe that it can happen. Thoughts are very powerful, seriously. Do more than hope for the best - expect it. We, meaning all of us, deserve nothing less. If you're intent or belief that something will happen is strong, and it does not involve the free will of another, then that intent or belief vastly increases the chances of that event happening. In the circumstances of Shaerin's question, what should s/he do, then about whether or not s/he'll call back, do nothing, Shaerin, baby! Just send out good thoughts, but after that, think of something else. And even if it doesn't happen, just send out good thoughts, as there's no point in doing the opposite.
Don't leave us, Moongod!
Free Spirit - Fri Aug 11 10:20:27 2000

oooh moondoggy is so dreamy
Gidget - Fri Aug 11 14:17:52 2000

I wanna see a full on man on man session with Jughead and Archie oh yeah baby
Fri Aug 11 14:19:13 2000

thank you for all the good wishes, i will find out tonight whether or not i am newly single... but i have planned a very big weekend to help get over the pain and desperation :) although it can all be cancelled if the news is good!!! you will all be the first to know...
Shaerin Magoodies - Fri Aug 11 15:35:17 2000

Shaerin Magoodies: You must stay at home by the phone for at least six months just in case they call. Fill up your time by posting here about how you two were really meant to be together, mention lots of soulmate stuff too, and how lonely you are and stuff like that. Then you'll really be accepted and fit in with the spirit of this wall.
Fri Aug 11 16:07:30 2000

being jilted is not the end of the world... no one will come knocking at ytour door... get out and do precicely what you want. Be that going to clubs, horticultural societies or political conferences.. What ever is Y0U. Mr Right will show up there and you will be perfect!
bwian - Fri Aug 11 19:51:00 2000

well it is now official- i am newly single and not sure of how i am feeling about that. i guess all there is to do now is what my name suggests. once again thank you to all of you supportive posters, i appreciate it :)))
Shaerin Magoodies - Fri Aug 11 21:00:02 2000

sorry , but hey just think of all the lovely people you will now have the opportunity to meet, small consellation but always look on the bright side of life, monty python script writers were geniuses.
Fri Aug 11 23:43:41 2000

Shaerin last night the man I have loved for such a long time has got someone else. The only thoughts I am sending out are how the f***** am I gonna get through this.
Sat Aug 12 14:03:27 2000

Living well is the best revenge, and the best therapy.Go to the gym,or start swimming,learn a language, concentrate on getting a promotion,start or finish a project, volunteer, get a new haircut and have fun with friends. Don't seek oblivion, theres never enough, don't ever call him,it never goes well,if you see him be friendly, but distracted, happy to see him but just too busy right now . Promise to call. Don't. Share your unhappiness with friends or family , never with him, he doesn't deserve to be trusted with your vulnerability.Practice knocking him back in the future,in your mind.(After he sees this happy gorgeous new you.) You might never have to,but it works well as an antidote.It's gradual,it gets better, and you get better at it.
Gail Force - Sat Aug 12 15:23:10 2000

i'm with gail force, right on yeah show the bastard what hes missing, also if it helps send a friend into a bar first to see if hes there lol i did and i feel like an idiot but i dont know how i wouldve reacted if i saw him there, reading your post anon made me cringe and feel strange in my stomach man i relate but only you can go thru it and you will but you can either do it real hard or real hard without the extra shit i wish you all the best , small tip dont try to outdo him by sleeping around youll only feel worse.
stay strong - Sat Aug 12 22:14:45 2000

Excellent advice Gail, I've just come home from the Shift where i ran into the ex with his new man. It wasn't easy to act real casual,mate, but having his new boyfriend openly checking me out, and flirting with me, made for a certain vengeful satisfaction, unkind as it was.I waved, to no-one, across the room &,sorry,just had to dash,secretly stronger...It does get better.Get a trainer to make it happen even sooner. I did. Best money i ever spent...
Buffy - Sun Aug 13 2:18:17 2000

you won't believe this, after getting dumped on friday night, my friends dragged me (kicking and screaming) to go dancing on saturday night. while there a v. good looking guy came up to me and asked me if i was having a good time, because i didn't look as though i was. when i said i wasn't he said that he would like to be my offficial good time person because he thought i was beautiful (his actual words) when i got up off the floor i asked him what that would involve and he told me in very descriptive and frank terms. we are now having a date on monday night. it is good to feel the lust hormones hard at work while the love hormones are having a disco nap. wahoo!!!
Shaerin Magoodies - Sun Aug 13 15:51:56 2000

onya shaerin have one for me , : ) ,
Sun Aug 13 18:02:17 2000

Good luck Shaerin and Sat Aug 12 14:03:27 2000 - hope you guys prosper brilliantly. Lately two of mine friends split up - and anyone would think the break up happened to me, it feels so awful - but you just have to move on and up.
Really? - Sun Aug 13 18:26:24 2000

Shairin: Gee it doesn't take much to get you in a better mood. Maybe thats the problem with so many on this wall. Feeling good about yourselves is so dependent on one other person.
Mon Aug 14 9:35:20 2000

Wonderful advice from all there but I can't move on and although writing such stuff may expose me to abuse on this wall its me. I love him I know that I am the only one that wants this and everyone and everything is against this. On the other hand that by no means indicates I won't try the advice given on the wall re doing other stuff etc.
Mon Aug 14 15:40:29 2000

even though i don't need others to make me feel good, i am sure everyone agrees that attention from others is a great mood enhancer. but rest assured, the pain of a breakup does not go away that easily.
Shaerin Magoodies - Mon Aug 14 16:03:56 2000

anything that distracts u from the pain of a breakup is good unless it causes more pain later, sometimes after a breakup we feel unwanted unloved and undesirable to have someone want us makes us feel good there is nothing wrong with that go for it shaerin : )
Mon Aug 14 23:07:11 2000

yes but what if you get rejected by the new person? then you feel twice as bad
Tue Aug 15 8:08:31 2000

Mon Aug 14 9:35:20 2000, how do you feel good about yourself when your slagging off so many on this wall?

Mon Aug 14 15:40:29 2000. As you may or may not know, we're all here to learn things, to learn to be, to find ourselves and above all to learn to love (ourselves and everyone else). I'm sure that at the moment you only want to hear one thing - that he loves you. But can I say that you're putting yourself down by saying that things will only be good if/when he does? You're better than that. What you're going through is very painful, I know. I've been there, for longer than you might imagine. Later, I found that what I was learning was this: it was all right to love someone and to lose that love, that things would be all right afterwards. And they are - much much better than allright. Looking back, I realise that if we had got together, it would have been disastrous.
If the love is true, then he'll come back, if he doesn't, then it isn't meant to be. It's tough, but in your heart of hearts you must know this to be true. Take care - you *will* make it.
Free Spirit - Tue Aug 15 9:01:31 2000


Free Spirit: I feel fabulous. Why? How do you feel.
Tue Aug 15 13:30:26 2000

i'm in a situation that i know is bad for me but i can't seem to stop....
i'm seeing an older woman - i'm 27 and she's 33 - not that age is supposed to matter but it does in this case.
we met recently and have an incredibly strong physical attraction, even though she's advised me that i'm really not what she's looking for (she's been hurt by younger women in the past).
she doesn't know where this is headed and doesn't know if she can make a committment to me. i want a relationship with her - and if i stop now it will be torture... but i can't seem to stop. i know that eventually i'll become too emotionally involved to sustain seeing her, and i'll either have to pull away or she will find someone she's more in tune with....
i can't seem to decide which road to take - on the one hand i made the decision recently never to deny myself the pleasures of living life, as pleasure comes with pain and that's just something we all have to deal with; and on the other hand, the longer i stay in it, the more it will hurt in the long run.
we've talked about this and she keeps saying she doesn't want to hurt me, and she will never intentionally hurt me; but it will happen..... she's not strong enough to pull away either; as what we have physically is very very intense.
any guidance is greatly appreciated.
tania - Tue Aug 15 17:45:14 2000

Tania.. I would say to you to hang in there and see what develops between the both of you. Its obvious there is a mutual attraction and this may well lead to true love. I am in the same situation myself with a girl I find so hard to get my off my mind. My problem is that she has a g/f although she is in another country. We both are physically intune with each other to the point we could not bear to be apart for more than two days.. I know that someone will end up hurt in this and perhaps it might be me, I dont want to break away from her, I really think the world of her, and she insists she wants to keep seeing me. I know I need to sit down and speak to her, but it is always a touchy subject. Any suggestions please ?? Has anyone been in the same situation and what did you do.
dee - Tue Aug 15 20:24:41 2000

dee it the same for Chris and me. He told me he is dating someone else. It was awful. The thing is people will keep telling you to get over it, move on etc etc. Whilst the suggestions on this wall are excellent in doing so if you really can't let go of someone and you are not Glenn Close or some similair obsessive stereotype then don't let go. Free Sprit tends to state so much wisdom on this wall but there is a point where we go past karma as an excuse for awful things especially the relationship unrequited et al dramas. Dee the burdon of hurt is awful; but at the same time it is ok to love, it is ok to be nice, it is ok to let the rest of the world play its silly games with love, work, backstabbing, bitchy, murder and other stuff that seperates us from what most (if not all) living beings want: love. Is this too in the clouds. Sure it is, but bottom line is dee love her; yep she may go overseas as my mate will, but I can't let go. If someone else comes along that's ok, but then again if they don't see you as offering love then its their problem. Good luck Tanya and Dee and from a male wimp who sees the world though rose coloured glasses I hope love comes to all. Now Free Spirit care for a dual?
Regular Poster But Not Saying Who - Tue Aug 15 21:46:11 2000

i like older guys, when i first came out i met a guy 20 yrs older, he kept saying he'd been hurt etc, he didnt want to commit etc, but kept me interested sometimes we'd break away but he'd see me out and come over and well me the love sick puppy would follow him out tail waggin all the way , eventually i grew stronger and wiser ( 2 yrs on mind you ) and realised this fella wanted his cake and a nibble of every other pastry in the shop, i thought i would eventually show him my ability to be faithful, loving and capable of having a long term relationship but either he never wanted nor bought it, pity i have someone today who loves me for those things and more, anyway i had to be really strong and distanced myself from him and trust me i'm glad i was in another city when it happened because i was tragic, i took out revenge (ithought it was) by sleeping around, got drunk alot, was a total abusive pig to anyone and everyone, eventually i stopped drinking, worked hard and got myself busy with friends , met new men socially etc about six months late i was in a bar by myself when guess who walks in well at first i cased the place for the nearest exit, second i thought how hot he looked, third i put my drink (water) down and walk straight past him said how you doing then went to a guy i knew near the wall near the door, after about 5 minutes ( long long 5 minutes ) i turned looked around the room went to the bar ( he was talking to the barman ) put my drink down and left walking down the street anybody would've thought i had won lottery i had a huge grin i felt great , not because i ditched him but because i had been kind to myself and felt enough self worth to not allow myself to go thru any rekindling of that ( as i see it now ) tragic relationship, dont get me wrong i only am the person i am today because of that first time relationship, i can only have mature relationships today because of it but man i wouldn't wish that shit on anyone, sorry my post is so long but when i read of people in situations that I see as being hopeless my heart sinks i get butterflies in my stomach and thank god it's not me, my heart goes out to you tania and dee, look after you ,
once bitten - Tue Aug 15 21:56:46 2000

Hey Tania - if you think it's doomed-it is. Trust your instincts. They are smart. So are you. Stop telling yourself you can't control this. You can.You are choosing to be 'out of control'."The longer i stay in this the more it will hurt in the long run" -You said this, you know this.Stop telling yourself that what you know doesn't count,or can't be acted upon. It can. Read the previous post from 'once bitten'.You are the person writing this script, this is not a dress rehearsal.If you are wondering how much it hurts,toying with the idea of pain, don't.You don't want to know. Good luck.
thrice bitten - Wed Aug 16 2:14:42 2000

don't demonise the 'older woman' either. Having been the older person in many relationships I can honestly say that the younger ones will always hurt you. They say they're in love, they think they're in love, but 30 seconds later, suddenly they're out of love with you and in love with someone else. The 'older woman' (33 is 'older'?????) has probably been caught in this trap before and is justifiably scared and confused too. She is probably really torn between her attraction and her fear - and is only trying to protect herself.
Wed Aug 16 8:08:31 2000

Tania: this woman has told you that you are not what she is looking for. Believe her.
Wed Aug 16 12:07:35 2000

Tania; base your decision on what you want in life for yourself. If you enjoy pain and torture ( and many who post here seem to ) Then go for it. If you don't then get out before you are caught up in it all. Its not as if you don't know whats ahead. You laid it all out............
Wed Aug 16 16:21:59 2000

On a lighter note,having a huge,playful,impossible crush on someone you know you can never be with,but just joyfully adore,and having them kinda know it too,& be flattered by it,and neither of you being intimidated by it,can be so much fun,on both ends,and I've been on both,that it makes the usually painful subject of this board(it says unrequited...) into something that doesn't have to do any damage.It can happen with straight guys,if they're really cool, like your sisters husband,or a guy at work who knows you're gay & knows you think he's gorgeous,and is flattered.Or with your best friends boyfriend,(I never ever sleep with those-even after the r'ship goes belly-up)or your lovers brother, whatever. The important point about these potentially painless exercises in unrequited love is that they always remain in your mind as completely absoloutely impossible dreams, no matter how fun the flirtatiion gets...As the song says ' It's just a little crush'
Gail Force - Wed Aug 16 19:41:05 2000

better to leave with good loving thoughts than become bitter and resentful towards each other.
Wed Aug 16 21:26:44 2000

unless they deserve it...
Thu Aug 17 10:32:46 2000

LOL , they only deserve it if you allow them to rule your feelings and allow them to hurt you, sounds more like revenge anon aug 17 10.32.46
Thu Aug 17 13:36:17 2000

Next time someone tells you he isn't looking for a relationship - Believe him.
Thu Aug 17 19:54:35 2000

ahmen to the above]
Thu Aug 17 21:46:16 2000

thanks everyone for your help
tania - Fri Aug 18 7:36:11 2000

I don't want a relationship with you.
Fri Aug 18 13:51:01 2000

Yes you do.
Fri Aug 18 13:51:22 2000

Yes I know you're only saying that and that secretly you are in love with me. A love so powerful you fear it and are trying to drive me away. But fear not my love, i will stay right here by your side no matter what.....
Fri Aug 18 14:54:51 2000

can someone please tell me how long these feelings of sadness and anger continue after you have been dumped by the f#%*ing creep???
Shaerin Magoodies - Fri Aug 18 15:41:21 2000

As long as you strongly identify yourself as the person who was dumped it will be hard to feel differently about 1) the situation 2) yourself.Find another way to think about what happened - for instance, a really nice guy,that you met and had some fun with wasn't ready for a relationship with you, which is good because,you really weren't ready either.Now that you've had a chance to reassesss the non-relationship you also realise that your self esteem,emotional maturity, and self-awareness all deserve a lot more attention than any relationship,at the moment,and the guy with whom things didn't work out actually did you a favour by refusing to commit to a you that really isn't ready yet. Use the time you now find yourself with to effect positive change in your life.Go to the gym. Take up classes.Stop defining your life in terms of who wants you, and start figuring out what you want of yourself.Become the person you want instead of looking for him in someone else.You are an unfinished miracle with boundless potential...
Hard 'n Chillin - Fri Aug 18 16:41:53 2000

thank you...
Shaerin - Fri Aug 18 17:31:07 2000

of course sugar in his gas tank is a lot quicker
Fri Aug 18 17:38:33 2000

lol @ the sugar comment , but seriously hard n chillin has hit the nail on the head, so long as you werent seen getting dragged along the road as you clung to his ankles ,
oh dear - Sun Aug 20 21:17:58 2000

Sharin: It really depends on you. I think its a good idea to aknowledge the feelings but don't let the feelings become the centre of your life.
Sun Aug 20 21:34:49 2000

Is it wrong to be sleeping with her when you really want a relationship with her but she's "not ready"? And am I kidding myself to think that the more she spends time with me the more she'll want me in her life and not just for some lovemaking and a cuddle?? Am I compromising my self respect or should I just make the most of the good times while I can and until I can find someone more suitable for me??
bad timing - Mon Aug 21 7:48:57 2000

Bad timing, I've been there once or twice and I think its better to cut your losses and p*ss off before she does it for you. The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave; and the more it'll hurt when she finally pulls the pin. Also, how are you going to find someone 'more suitable' if she is taking up your time and thoughts? It's a tough call, but it takes a tough person to walk away. I never was really good at knowing when it's time to go.
nik - Mon Aug 21 8:37:39 2000

Hard 'n Chillin... Not sure about your name (implies bad energy), but great words from you.
Mon Aug 21 8:47:48 2000

dont walk away , bad timing, RUN run like hell unless your strong enough to just enjoy casual sex with this person, because if you think the longer you are with them they will change well sorry but i'm yet to see it happen. there are plenty of available people , i used to do it too stick with the ones who least want what i wanted?????, go find one who will appreciate you for who you are and what u want.
Mon Aug 21 14:05:27 2000

Bad Timing: Not wrong but stupid.
Mon Aug 21 14:34:24 2000

Oh and BTW if she tries any of the "i've been so hurt in my life stuff" and makes you feel bad about about leaving her (and therefore hurting her one more time) - ignore it - its a control mechanism! In this situation its every woman for herself. She may not have any qualms about leaving you
nik - Mon Aug 21 15:47:44 2000

Bad timing, In light of new information, ignore my last post
n - Mon Aug 21 18:15:13 2000

a friend of mine woke up next to his partner to find him passed away, that was two years ago i gave lots of support , emotional, financial etc but still find him saying he cannot get it together because of the death, i'm not a horrible person i would be shattered too i'm sure, but find it very frustrating to see him just wasting his life away when he could be so much more and do so much more, i no longer offer and rarely give financial support as i cannot afford it and try to avoid any emotional scenes am i selfish or as i like to think am being tough so as to toughen up him, i want to do things for him but also feel enough is enough, i dont know can u help?
rob - Mon Aug 21 21:34:23 2000

Rob, you're not being selfish. Not once in your post did you mention 'your' feelings. There's only so much a person can take and it sounds like your friend has pushed you to the limit. Stick to your guns and look after your own self....maybe the distancing will eventually draw this friend closer to you.
L - Tue Aug 22 7:18:37 2000

Yes Rob eventually you have to say "enough is enough". It would surely be a traumatic experience to find your lover dead beside you but after 2 years, I would think you should be seeing some improvement. Is your friend getting any sort of professional counselling? The sad thing is, that in some situations where a person is giving someone a lot of support, they become reliant on it and do not get better. I think you can be there for the person but you must encourage him to stand on his own 2 feet. Its 'tough love', or 'being cruel to be kind' - pick your cliche - but in this case I think you are doing the right thing. You are bound to feel guilty and your friend may play on this, or get angry at you, but ultimately you are not doing him any favours by enabling him to remain dependent and hence stay unwell.
nik - Tue Aug 22 8:20:35 2000

Rob - I agree with both the above. If your friend is not getting counselling then you can probably help by insisting very strongly that he does. If he is getting counselling then maybe you can talk with his counsellor and see if they can give you any advice on how to proceed.
Panther - Tue Aug 22 8:39:26 2000

I am heartened by the postings of Twice Bitten et al and the story that poster gave. I too am in this particular sitution and have done things to distract. My area of disagreement is about we are writing the script. I don't buy that because although it is up to us to change the program in the heads it takes time, lots and lots of time and going though bitter emotions are part of it. To just say let go, get over, suicide is coward et al does not work, in fact when others (except bless them gayline phone councellers) say that you tend to go after the person anyway. Victims are treated like crap in this society: most of you don't like victims because you believe in the cliche "laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone." I did not, repeat, did not choose the torture of being in love with someone. I accept responsibility for it and I have now seen the power to change my attitude and do other things. This is why I find twice bitten's statement about walking out the bar happy to be a miricle. This creep who did this to you will pay in some form; if anyone reads these pages and they are on the receiving end of someone you don't love it is your fault, it is not just their fault. My so called friend is trying to use me for other things and is annoyed with me because he wants to work on a project with me. But it involves Saturday night work and his new boyfriend wants to come over. It was made clear to me that I was to spend 25 dollars on cabfare over to the other side of Brisbane but when they wanted to make out it was time for me to go. I feel used, angry and I want to tell him he is a user. I can't love someone like that, I thought I did but it makes me ill to think he is abusing me. But the bottom line is I did not choose torture as another poster put up here. I thought he was the one, I was wrong and I am paying the price. Well no more.
m - Tue Aug 22 10:48:08 2000

Really?
Tue Aug 22 16:25:43 2000

tks l,nik and panther he has had counselling and it is something i did not think of doing , talking to his or another counsellor about it, but will. I do feel guilty to a point because he has no family and very few friends here, hes from another city and his family is not close anyway, and i have eventually seen the light and realised being his crutch is only making him more reliant, we'll have to see how it works out tks it was nice to unload anyway and for your advice.
rob - Tue Aug 22 21:54:16 2000

'Fixing' him is outside the scope of your abilities.He is a lucky person to have such a good friend.
nik - Wed Aug 23 7:15:44 2000

Im so in long with you, hurts the soul, make love your goal ! Give it a listen guys/girls..
frankie goes to hollywood - Fri Aug 25 17:22:37 2000

love...hmmm...it's all a bit much, but i think it's about learning and laughing and playing and feeling okay. i know that, with my current partner, the word nearly slipped out a few times when i wasn't watching, and really, why did i want to keep it hidden - i've lost too much by keeping quiet
Wed Aug 30 20:21:50 2000

i just phoned my father for fathers day and for the first time in my life i had an actual conversation with him. we spoke about the olympics, sydney, family, health, politics, and he even said he was worried about my safety while the plympics were on (!) i think i am still in shock. i feel as though i have been given the fathers day gift. i hope this opens new avenues for our relationship...
Shaerin Magoodies - Sun Sep 3 17:12:25 2000

parents are like lovers, you think you have them worked out then wham they chuck you for a six, my father has moments too when i feel close and able to stand being in the same room as him and actually holding grown up conversations for more than 2 minutes of weather forecasting, then he'll stuff it all up one time with his nasty redneck bullshit and i'll shake my head in disgust and promise to avoid any contact outside of family duty, but i suppose we are all getting on and one day they wont be here and yes i will miss them so i can give some of myself and time to them even if it isnt comfortable at times because i know when times have been tough or i have needed somewhere to crash the doors always been open, so i gave my dad a hug today and nearly gave him and my family a heart attack but uck it why not i feel good today.
their people too - Sun Sep 3 18:05:28 2000

The above posting was really touching. Good on you for that. Parents, like lovers are rarely perfect all the time and sometimes I think we get unreal expectations of how our Parents should behave. When they are gone we may very much regret things from the past and wish they were still around to resolve these conflicts. This type of relationship is very analagous to our lovers I think and rejecting a lover on the basis that they are not ideal in some area or because we can't tolerate the good with the bad is something that could be regretted long term also. True, many Parents and lovers deserve to be forgotten or rejected but sometimes are we the ones who have demanded too much from them in the first instance?
Perfectly imperfect - Wed Sep 6 13:19:09 2000

It depends very much on what your parents have done and how they have acted.It is often necessary to let go of ones parents in order to survive.
Thu Sep 7 11:57:11 2000