Love 6: Unrequited

In the chilly hours and minutes
Of uncertainty
I want to be
In the warm hold of your loving mind.

To feel you all around me
And to take your hand
Along the sand
Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

When sundown pales the sky
I wanna hide a while
Behind your smile
And everywhere I'd look, your eyes I'd find.

For me to love you now
Would be the sweetest thing,
T'would make me sing
Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.
Catch the Wind Donovan

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Love 5: Together
Love 7: Breaking Up

Well, Looks like I'm the first here......un-requited love huh??? I have no idea what that means......
PA - Fri Nov 12 0:29:32 1999

Then you're lucky!!!
nik - Fri Nov 12 8:49:31 1999

I envy you PA with not knowing unrequited. However I think that for most of us it's an experience that is altogether too common.
sigh - Fri Nov 12 9:21:06 1999

For all those out there who have been following the trials and tribulations of the BND and DB seperation here is an update. Things went through a real rough patch a couple of months ago and I was very sad, we wern't communicating like we used to. But we stayed in contact (at least once or twice week) and talked about the boys we were both seeing and the things we were doing. We both got stronger and more independant and this kind of worried my because I diddn't know if this growth would go too far and mean there was no longer any need in our lives for each other. Well he decided to come to Perth for PRIDE, it was a supprise to the rest of our friends and ex flamate. He arrived the day earlier and met me at the airport. It was great to see him standing there but for the first couple of hours I was scared of him. He was so familiar yet I knew he was now different but not how. We sat in the hotel and talked and soon the tension melted away, it was so nice to wake up with us in our old sleeping positions, some things hopefully will never change. We had a great time in Perth and discovered that we have both grown up but not changed that much. He was due to fly back to London on the Wednesday, the same day I came back to Sydney but on the Tuesday decided he was going to come and spend a week in Sydney with me. After spending a day at home "straighening things up" and putting his touch on the place he settled back in. We are doing Frisky tonight and he flies out on Tuesday. As I type this the sexiest boy in the whole wide world is curled up asleep in my bed. It hasn't all been plain sailing, we have discussed when we will be getting back together but for the moment we both have our individle focuses that we both respect. I am going to London to spend New Year with him which will be great as it will be his chance to show me some of the things he is doing and some of the things he has achieved. I sleep easier now knowing that there is a future perhaps not tomorrow but when things are right.
BND - Sat Nov 13 10:09:28 1999

Ill always love you poo!Good luck with your exams and remember that no matter how nasty you are to me I will forgive you.When you learn a little more about life you will understand that my love is truely unconditional,not obsessive,just pure love........grizz..xxxxx
Grizz - Sun Nov 14 19:52:44 1999

I mean that I don't understand what un-requited means....I know what love is......it's crazy!!!
PA - Mon Nov 15 23:24:41 1999

Main Entry: un·re·quit·ed
Pronunciation: "&n-ri-'kwI-t&d
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1542
: not requited : not reciprocated or returned in kind
unrequited love
Webster Dictionary Online
angelboy - Tue Nov 16 11:44:48 1999

Tue Nov 16 11:45:54 1999

Ditto: Oxford Dictionary Inhand:)
The very naughty boy - Tue Nov 16 17:48:25 1999

Out on the back porch I stood in the early pre dawn. Frozen in my dressing gown all ragged and torn. Not a Leonid in sight, my the cold, what bite. Then out you came, to be with me. Many stars, we could see. Then you turn around and look me in the eye, we hug and I let out a big sigh. Then the kiss, oh what bliss. A kiss under the stars, oh I think I'm now on Mars! It beats any meteor storm my love.
Shooting stars. - Thu Nov 18 11:38:38 1999

My beautiful shooting star. I loved what we did last night searching for something that was not to be seen, but at the same time knowing we have everything we have ever wanted. I am truly yours
Uranus - Thu Nov 18 23:56:38 1999

just close your eyes,
and turn the page,it was a big romance inside of him,
and every time you turn a page,
you'll feel what he felt,you'll see what he saw.

but where is he now?
there is no end on the last page,
so he's gone,just gone,
but there is still no final end.
maybe this is one of those thousands of stories,
that couldn't find an end,except a blank page.

life goes on,everything goes on,
but he's gone,
now tell me,was it worth it?
that he loved Ross so much..
said that "only Ross".
but noone understood him,
how much he loved him.
skywalker - Fri Nov 19 13:05:16 1999

Fri Nov 19 13:12:44 1999

tonstant weader frowed up
Fri Nov 19 16:48:14 1999

My boyfriend prefers to spend a lot of time with an ex lover on the gay scene (I'm told that to be there would cause "problems" ), out on romantic dinner nights and associates with the lover (who conveniently becomes someone else more legitimate when it suits) and people who are destructive to our relationship and against it (they have made it clear they want him for themselves). When I tell him I don't like that he calls me possesive and demanding and he should be able to do what he wants and then makes me feel guilty for getting down about this. I let him do what he wants and end up feeling very dejected and miserable and so alone. He doesn't work and doesn't want a job because that would cramp his lifestyle with these others who keep hours better suited to keeping him away from me (I work in a demanding and dedicated 9-5 job, when I take days off to be with him, he criticises me for doing that and can't be with me because he has commitments with these others). Everytime I do something wrong because I'm passionate about him, these others in his life hold that against me and won't forgive me and he won't either (he keeps bringing these things up). I offer him commitment, independence and a life together but he then tells me he has no security in the relationship because I don't approve him of continuing this lifestyle that he leads and his "friends" (who dissapprove of me) tell him I'm taking him away from them. I exhaust myself trying to keep him happy and when I feel bad and down, I get no understanding or sympathy. I feel he will leave me at any moment I do the wrong thing by him and I am criticies and never forgiven, he has absolutely nothing to miss or be sad about if he does so as these other people in his life want him for themselves. He promises commitment (it never happens despite me opening up my whole life to him) and change but only on the condition that these other people in his life are satisfied by taking him away from me. I exhaust myself trying to compete with these others and dislike the gay scene immensly because of this exclusion that I'm forced to feel. Regardless of this though, I love him very much (stupidly perhaps) and how unrequitted can you get on this level. I wish he would feel the same way but perhaps I should let him go to fly away. Perhaps I am being unrealistic in my expectations. He doesn't know how good he's got it.
Unreal Love - Tue Nov 23 19:44:49 1999

Unreal Love - Your boyfriennd should also be your friend, someone that you can spend time with that is enjoyable, someone you can talk to. You have put down a lot of negatives above, but no positives. Try writing down the positives for yourself. Then examine both and see if it the relationship you want. You may find it useful to talk to your local Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service.
Panther - Tue Nov 23 21:41:38 1999

Dear 'Unreal love' - it would be wrong to give you advice as I don't really know the situation. Nevertheless, what you describe sounds very dicey. If I were in the situation you describe I guess I would both think and feel this relationship is doomed. Following from this, I would be thinking how I will be feeling once it ends under varying scenarios. I kind of think I'd be feeling worse if I waited to get dumped by him, than if I acted myself to bring it to an end. This would probably lead me to looking for a way to end it. By trying so hard to make it work, I presume I would have surprise on my side by just ending it in cold blood. By this, I mean I'd save my breath rather than criticise him, or seem to be disapproving of anything he does. I would merely tell him that "I am not getting what I want - so I am ending the relationship. Have a nice life. Goodbye." If he asked me what I wanted - I'd tell me that "I've already told you that, now I am telling you I have not got what I want, and that I am now ending the relationship." I would try as hard as possible not to be angry or rancorous or blaming or anything other than calm and neutral. I'd keep it very short. I can do this by scheduling a hair appointment 5 for minutes after the time I get to speak to him or a movie or a coffee with a great and very supporting friend. Whatever I did, I would not argue with him or be seen to blame him for anything, because the chances are he will use that to rationalise the failure of the relationship and pin it on me. If anything, I would thank him for the experience and wish him a happy life. Finish. As for you, darling darling darling - you would then need to get your own house in order! You/I will need to realise that no guy no matter how apparently sexy and otherwise fabulous has the power to make you/me feel "dejected and miserable and so alone". True, "he doesn't know how good he's got it" - but I wouldn't waste my energy thinking about him even to this extent. Go and find someone who is decent, for goodness sakes there *are* really great guyz out there!!!! Why waste your precious precious precious life with no hopers?
Been there too! - Tue Nov 23 22:04:57 1999

Could I ask a really really really special favour of Panther? Panther dear, would it be possible to ditch your lovely hearts? The hearts, together with the blue writing, make reading the screen really difficult - at least for some of us! Plus, 'love' has a lot more in it than the pure emotion heart symbols signify. For example, to be in love with someone also involves brain activity - thinking I mean. Horror horror! I hear screamed at me! Yes, thinking, I say. The heart and the head come together to form love, I repeat. Please consider my genuine suggestion. Thanks.
Finding it hard to read the screen. - Tue Nov 23 22:12:47 1999

For example - self destructive behaviour, such as holding on to a love object which inflicts unreasonable pain and damages one's life chances, is not 'love', it's more like self hate. These issues need powerful thoughts, not powerful emotions.
Been there too! - Tue Nov 23 22:16:54 1999

Have a nice Christams day with your true lover "Rosie". You deserve each other you two timing bastard. It's such a pity you can't feel so empathetic towards your boyfriend. So what are you hiding on the scene with your lover of a Mother. You are a bastard and you should feel ashamed of yourself. Enjoy the Scene, It's all you've got!!!!
Disillusioned and dejected - Tue Nov 23 23:08:57 1999

I truley hate the scene now. It's so negative towards stable relationships. If your boyfriend likes the scene, then be very, very suspicious. It doesn't promote 1:1 relationships. Bascically he wants to f%%%%%ck around if he wants to tell you that. Trust me there, I don't bullshit. Your BF says he likes that then he's fuc****king around on you.
Burnt - Tue Nov 23 23:19:51 1999

Happy birthay Max,i love you so much and i wanna spend the rest of my love with you.
TX - Wed Nov 24 13:18:10 1999

Full moon last night.
Wed Nov 24 13:19:08 1999

All my love for you sweet Chris. You complete me.
Melissa - Wed Nov 24 13:20:27 1999

I'm young,cute,funny,I enyoy life and I just feel like scarlett from Gone With The Wind.I love some one so much.I also thought that he loved me too but i was wrong.He has a boyfriend and he loves him so much.he told me to forget him but i can't.It's been a long time now but i still love him and i get jealous when i see him with his boyfriend.Sometimes i just pretend like i'm over him.I have a lot of guys around me who like me,i talk to them,i have fun,i try to make him jealous but inside i just cry,he's the onlyone i can't get and he's the only one i want.I see a lot of guys around me who'd love to be with me but i still look at him and i miss him so much. now there is a guy who tells me that he loves me so much.He's funny,kind and he does everything that i ask him to do but i don't love him,i love the other one. I don't know what to do but i know that i'd go out with him to make the other one i love jealous. I'm confused and i need help plase.
little boy - Wed Nov 24 13:31:29 1999

Ouch, littel boy! That hurt! Surely you can't be serious!? You sound like a decent guy, but here you are proposing to let a guy believe you love him - even though you don't - just so that you can get someone else! Wow - I sure hope you aren't serious. Perhaps you would be better off letting go of the guy who doesn't love you and building a life for yourself first. Perhaps you aren't ready for a boyfriend at all right now. Get your feet back on the ground - and get on with your life. Later, you can think about getting a boyfriend.
little boy's time to grow up - Wed Nov 24 20:20:46 1999

I thought that I was having a bad day since my boyfriend broke up with me. He recently wrote me saying he is "doing me a favour" and it has turned the day from being depressed to one of non stop laughter. Does anyone else find this as amusing as I find it
John - Thu Nov 25 16:09:10 1999

Why are we content to search out in someone else what we lack, instead of searching for it within ourselves? Love is about denying our own abilities to be whole and independent. It grows in maturity when we strenghten our resolve to take care of ourselves, intead of expecting someone else to save us.
Earth - Sat Nov 27 0:26:07 1999

Dear Earth - interesting idea. Are you saying all love is like this? Please respond - as I would like to hear your opinion. Thanks.
Really? - Sat Nov 27 19:27:31 1999

What happens when one of your so-called close friends continually protects and takes the side of your ex. Especially when you have have been the wronged one in the relationship?
Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999

Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999 - Sit them down and have a good long talk with them. See if you can come to an understanding.
Panther - Mon Nov 29 20:05:59 1999

Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999 - Maybe your friend is playing devils advocate? maybe your friend relates to your ex and not u? guess panthers right, u r not going to know until u talk it thru
Wed Dec 1 4:35:02 1999

Earth (Sat Nov 27 0:26:07 1999) presents what seems to be a position of radical individualism. While I agree that love will not save us from what we lack inside, I see no reason why loving someone is incompatible with independence and being 'whole' (a rather vague term - seems to be a bit too finite for me). Just an opinion.
Stephen - Wed Dec 1 13:12:57 1999

So sorry Earth hasn't yet responded to my query about his/her posting. Stephen's is the usual (humanist?) view - I am inclined to think Earth may have a point about the completely unrealistic models of love that do the traps. I kind of think 'love' as most guys mean it is a heightened form of attraction - hardly any different to what you might feel for a great car or whatever other object turns you on. If so, then I would suggest a lot of us need to do some real thinking about what we are asking of each other when we fall in love or want to be in love or find that we are not loved, etc. To find that you are not adored in much the same way a car either is or isn't adored, is hardly cause for too much grief. If a believe in love at all, it would have to be more than this. Not sure that this is what other people are on about though - please let me know what you think!
Really? - Wed Dec 1 20:01:58 1999

Its a long time since I have been called a humanist. I am much too much of a non-relativist structuralist really (and if this is just babble to you, you are probably right). I agree with Really?'s point about unrealistic perspectives on love, but I feel that Earth's position throws out the good with the bad. But without greater explanation of meanings, it is not possible to really tell. I do believe that we humans are fundamentally social beings, and that this is not a shortcoming. Within this is a capacity and very possibly a need for love.
stephen - Thu Dec 2 17:12:16 1999

I have the belief that we as human beings are inately "relational beings". That is, by our very nature, we need relationships. I also believe that we have specific need for what some call "romantic love"--the typical Prince Charming thing. So, in a sense, to be whole (i.e., have all of our needs met) does require having love. However, I like to think that needing love to be whole does not mean that we can not also be independent? I think the concern lies in the place where we turn to "love" as the answer to all of our needs. Just as eating when you are tired does not fill the need for sleep, having "love" does not fill other needs such as a need for recognition through work, the need for achievement, etc.
Jeff - Thu Dec 2 18:45:31 1999

What a wonderful, philosophical and intellectually stimulating discussion going on here. Perhaps the "nirvana" that I can imagine is the scenario of two "whole and independent" people who are in love with each other. Now that would be a powerful relationship I reckon. I wonder if other animals that pair up experience these feelings of "love" for each other that we humans often feel? To feel these feelings (as social beings who need to relate to others) obviously has given us an evolutionary edge in the world. Personally, If I couldn't (or am not) be whole and independent then I'd rather be "in love" (and receive love from someone) than not in love at all. It's like saying that money may not buy happiness but it can sure make things more comfortable for you if you are miserable.
Vive Amour! - Fri Dec 3 9:43:31 1999

Just when I thought everything was fine in my 4 year relationship, love/lust for another has to come along and slap me in the face. Why oh why???
dazedandconfused - Tue Dec 7 2:50:35 1999

Because you allowed it to dear.
Tue Dec 7 21:00:19 1999

I think dazedandconfused has mixed the idea of love/lust when they are in factor totally different things. Love is understanding, care, companionship, friendship, deep interest. It takes time to grow and will only grow if both are willing for it to grow. However, lust, on the other hand is physical attraction. I have been in a relaitonship now for 5 years and I love my partner & he loves me, but we both lust over guys because we find other guys sexually attractive. We may have a threesome or play when we are at a dance party but we know that the "getting off" with someone else isn't love and can't replace love. Sure, we all fall in and fall out of love if we allow ourselves to do so. It is a decision, a commitment to love. I think as gay men we take our relationships far too seriously, rather, we should allow love to develop, allow our partners to be who they are and love them for their individuality without condition. Take each day as it comes and enjoy love each day.
Wed Dec 8 13:39:19 1999

I am a 25 yo muscle guy living in Sydney with a sexy 23 yo boyfriend who is toned and tanned. Last week we went to The Den on Oxford Street and met this 55 yo and took him him home. Anyway now this guy says he loves me and my boyfriend. Whats the problem? We are upset because he says this but we found out he has a 43 yo boyfriend who is a stud as we found out. To make matters worse our "friends" found out we had sex with someone over 30 which in our circle of friends is a criminal offence (I mean he is 55 for god's sake). Anyway if you lot read this I like these two guys and if we want to have a 4 way then its our business. Merry xmas
Bruce & David - Sun Dec 12 12:28:35 1999

Bruce and David; Good on you for asserting your attitudes there. I mean where is it written that you "Should" only do this or do that when it comes to this type of situation? People can be so judgemental at times and perhaps some elements of the gay community are the worst at it. If you all like each other and are comfortable about it then why not? It could be the perfect relationship for you all! Merry Xmas also and have a great year!
Attitude, schmattitude. - Sun Dec 12 12:51:48 1999

A song about unrequited love???? How about Donovan's "Catch the Wind"?
Scott - Sun Dec 12 17:01:03 1999

Ignore the above, I just realised from looking at the prior topics the name of the song should be 'unrequited love' - I can't help with that one!
Sun Dec 12 17:12:11 1999

Scott, that's fine thanks.
Panther - Sun Dec 12 18:15:36 1999

Its not unrequited, but the guy with whom I am starting a relationship is OS until the new year. I am missing him, and really want a warm hug. This seems like such a long 5 weeks. Its funny how we connect so easily and quickly to someone every now and then, and that when they leave, it seems like a bit if hole is left behind.
hugless - Tue Dec 14 17:32:06 1999

After the last broken heart took 2 years to heal I met a guy (through friends, not the scene thank god) and it all happens over again. Wonderful smile, makes me laugh, loves to hold my hand, we read to each other and I find myself spending so much time with him, talking to him and thinking about him. Waking up in the same position we fell asleep in, holding each other close and smiling at what a great thing we have. ... ... and then the distance, the forgotten calls and the eventual realisation that its all happening again. ... ... He wants to be friends but the last time I saw him I couldnt cope and had to leave. Saying "everything is OK" and "this is a good thing" just doesnt cut it when all you want to do is curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep. ... ... I have friends who are so in love it makes my heart sing for them but bleed for me, and all I can think is that true love does happen. I don't look for it or even wish for it as I know thats self defeating but to have that boy who shares the same feeling isnt too much to ask for... is it?
Tempest - Sat Dec 18 0:01:06 1999

my boyf and i have been together 10 years. we no longer have sex but have developed into a plutonic relationship - sorta like brothers. Is this normal?
Confused - Mon Dec 20 22:11:05 1999

Well its certainly the norm for lesbians
Tue Dec 21 7:42:54 1999

says who?!?!
Lebian Sex life might slow down somewhat considerably but it doesn't cease to exist altogether!
And besides this is no different to any hetrosexual relationships - especially after kids and many years under the bridge.
Tue Dec 21 9:09:41 1999

Confused - It is common for people to have less sex after years together. What works best for you may not be right for others. If it bothers you then talk about it with your partner. If you are having problems talking about it with your partner then try talking to a counsellor, or maybe a couples counsellor.
Panther - Tue Dec 21 20:17:52 1999

Thanks Panther and others for their replies - We get on real well - still kiss and cuddle but we are not interested in having sex with each other. We have sorta ended up best mates and if either of us have or want sex we just have it outside the relationship. I was just wondering if this is what happens in a long term relationship?
Confused - Tue Dec 21 21:41:49 1999

Straights have sex with their children when they get sick of their wife.
Wed Dec 22 9:13:11 1999

i walked out on love cause he was loving his time on the computer.
watson - Thu Dec 23 7:13:14 1999

I love you so much honey, I ache to be without you and after 2 years it still feels like the honeymoon and I think it always will. You complete me on every level.....xoxoxoxo
tubber oxox - Thu Dec 23 18:50:57 1999

Dear Snugglepuss, you know I love you more and more as each day goes by....From your Cuddlepie.
Yes It's me. - Sat Dec 25 15:46:52 1999

To the twit who wrote on 22/12 "Straights have sex with thier children" You are a twisted person love, sure sexual abuse exists but no need to make it a "Hetrophobic" comment. It is not nice (or true) when staight people associate gay men with peodophilia etc so we shoudl not stoop to that level either. And if you are going to reply "Well it happened to me" I am really sorry for you, go and get therapy and get over it.
Anon - Mon Dec 27 15:25:42 1999

Even God is powerless against history, against the past, how could i ever begin to imagine i could change that
It hurts, it just hurts... - Tue Dec 28 17:35:19 1999

Right now I fear that there is no such thing as love! - we are all fooling ourselves.
lil' Ms - Tue Jan 4 14:48:48 2000

Of course there is such as thing as love. It's just harder for gays. As if we didn't have enough problems!
Melbcynic - Fri Jan 7 0:02:16 2000

Melbcynic - I know you are right.
lil' Ms - Fri Jan 7 9:53:05 2000

Tony C, Tony C, Tony C, will you ever notice me!
REN - Fri Jan 7 11:52:16 2000

Love is the refuge of one's soul. It is a pseudo-entity that two people create when they mix intimacy and vulnerability with sexual chemistry. It is a vunerable entity and it somtimes can be mortally wounded. It has a flavour, a feel, and a magic about it. And it will be the thing that humanity will forever be obsessed about capturing and worshipping for a long time to come.
D&Mboy... - Fri Jan 7 20:28:22 2000

Hi,I'm female and a bit confused about love. Hate to turn this into an agony column but maybe there are some older gay/bisexuals who can advise. I can't find anywhere else to ask. Athough I say I'm bisexual the thought of women is what I really love. I was in an intimate relationship with a girl for two years and it felt so natural, exciting, passionate, as I'm sure most first love does. This relationship ended badly because I did not love her mind, in fact I hated it most of the time. Recently I have become involved with a man who I do love the mind and body of but that spark I felt with my first lover just isn't there, I don't feel that warmth and comfort with him and I still think about women when I'm with him, or when I'm thinking of him. I have always felt that I could never love a man although I am attracted to men in some ways(sorry, but there are physical hang-ups as well as mental ones!), but I am considering entering a longterm relationship with him. I don't know if what I feel for him is real love or if I should wait to meet the right girl instead of stringing him along on something that in my heart I know won't work. This confusion over what love is is making me feel that 'love' doesn't exist, or that I'll never feel it. I like what 'D&Mboy' says on the subject and I thought I'd experienced it with my first girlfriend but how could I if I did not love her mind or behaviour? Should love not be friendship and respect as well as physical attraction? As I say, this is what I feel for my man but that spark isn't there. I've explained how I feel about women to him but I still feel for him. Can anybody help me?
huggabunny - Sat Jan 15 3:58:12 2000

huggabunny - don't they always say that you never forget your first? Well, unless it was a quick shag and a quick wave goodbye, that is. Believe me, love exists (it's more important than anything else in the universe!) It always means friendship and respect and not just physical attraction. I don't know for sure, of course, but it sounds like there was a very strong physical attraction in your first, but that it wasn't much more than that, and as it was your first, that heightened the feelings. But then it went on for two years?! Hmmmm...now I'm a bit confused.

I agree, D&M boy is about right. I'd say that love is a good combination of these three attributes: romance (meaning the physical stuff), commitment, and intimacy (meaning understanding, commonality and sharing). If you have those three in equal measure, then wow! You are in love, baby! As Panther says, the physical side (romance) can lessen, but the relationship can continue. But without either one of the other two, that is, without either commitment or mutual understanding, the relationship will fail.
free spirit - Sat Jan 15 9:49:51 2000

huggabunny - You seem a bit hung up on the gender of your partner. I am not sure whether this is because you are unsure of your own sexuality or because you are confused by your experiences. Or maybe you are just not ready for a committed relationship.
Panther - Sat Jan 15 10:53:54 2000

To my little one - what a fabulous holiday we had. Happy New Year - can't wait to spend the next 90 with you our kids and family - love you always xxxxxxxx
woodwark - Sat Jan 15 16:03:34 2000

Thanks a lot free spirit, you have helped a lot. And I do agree with you Panther, I think all three of those things are right, though I've always said a person's gender doesn't concern me, it's the person I see. I'll figure it out in time I guess, I'm glad I have this sight to visit when I'm feeling confused and isolated. Thanks again!
huggabunny - Tue Jan 18 0:54:02 2000

huggabunny, love is a wild plant that grows where it can. My experience has been that you can find yourself in love when your head is telling you its not right. Sometimes you are with someone who cares about you and you feel the situation should be right, but somehow something is missing. My advice would be to let your heart feel, listen to what it is saying, and let your head decide whether to go with your heart or not. In time I have learned to listen to my heart. In time I have learned that sometimes love requires sacrifices that are too great for that point in your life and your head needs to govern. Be gentle with yourself, examine your expectations. Tap into the treasure-trove of your experience. Be prepared to go out on a limb sometimes, you may get hurt, but you will learn a lot.
sideburns - Wed Jan 19 10:12:32 2000

BND, well the holiday has come to an end,and it's time to go back to our respective corners of the globe. Although I don't think a globe has corners. I had an amazing time, and am looking forward to you finally moving to London. Thanks for looking after me in Switzerland. And thanks for the wicked time in LA. My best holiday yet. See you at Mardi Gras BB, be good - or be good at it. Love you. Your SB
DB - Sat Jan 22 1:53:20 2000

What is Love, but a way to heal and destroy.....
Lukey - Sun Jan 23 14:07:20 2000

"...desolation" may have been the word you were looking for? :-)
free spirit - Sun Jan 23 21:57:17 2000

Already 7 months, away from home. From Sydney, Australia. A country I chose to be my home. Coming back on Saturday, my heart already pounding like I'm a bout to meet a boyfriend...that I don't have yet. Love it is, as stupid as some might think. Never forget you all live in such a nice land, a chance so many don't have. To all lonely hearts : smile to life, believe me it then smiles back at you! sydneyblue@hotmail.com
Blue- sleepless in freezing Amsterdam - Tue Jan 25 15:04:56 2000

:-))
Tue Jan 25 23:26:10 2000

Why didn't that bisexual man love me! I'm so pretty, smart and tolerant!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 27 2:23:09 2000

I have been in a long term relationship for a number of years. The problem is that although i love my boyfriend,we no longer have a very active sex life. Non-monogamy is definite no-no for us as well. I have been in the dating game and know how horrible it can be. My guy is a good man, and I certainly couldn't do better but the relationship is lacking that spark. I am still fairly young so i ahve a dilemma. Do I stay in my safe but bland relationship (because love don't come knockin all that much) or do I go out and try to find the "spark" (because you only live once)
chris - Thu Jan 27 15:10:25 2000

Chris, as you probably realise, there's only one person who can decide for you, and that's you. I reckon that you have to ask yourself a lot of questions, over a period of time, but that the answer will come from deep within you.

Is the relationship "bland" in ways other than sex? Do you still find your partner sexually attractive? If so, are you doing enough about that to make it happen between you? Are you staying with him only because you fear the alternative? Can you see yourself living without him? Love is sharing - have you discussed this with him? Are you - or is he - going through a bad time in something outside of the relationship, that is making it difficult for either of you to relax into it. Have the two of you moved in different directions since you got together? Are your friends telling you stories of non-stop sex that are getting you anxious for your own ends? :-) By the way, we each of us live many times more than once, but that's another story. :-)
free spirit - Thu Jan 27 21:43:50 2000

chris - If the only problem is lack of sex in the relationship then you should be able to find a solution. Some ways to get sex back into your relationship would be to try new sexual activities such as using other rooms or outdoors, new positions, massage, watching porn to get you going, exploring your fantasies or fetishes. If you decide that you can have others in your relationship there are also lots of options - you can each go out and get something on the side, or you could do it together as a threesome, partner swapping. Have a talk to him and see if you can work out something.
Panther - Fri Jan 28 9:31:17 2000

I just got back with my boyfriend after 12 months bein broken up. I am happy with him but i can't get this guy out of my head who i was seeing when we were broken up. I don't want to get back with him or anything but he hurt me & I can't get over being angry with hime even thought he doesnt know I exsist. I dont understand why i cant move on
Joboy - Thu Feb 3 8:52:28 2000

I'm 29, good looking, intelligent and came out over 10 years ago. Yet still I stand in a club and no one will approach me. I don't understand it.
I Don't Bite - Thu Feb 3 22:28:12 2000

I Don't Bite - Maybe they don't approach you because you don't approach them. "Should I go over and talk to him or wait till he comes and talks to me?" If everyone is standing around looking and no one approaching then nothing ever happens. I think fear of rejection is behind a lot of it.
Panther - Fri Feb 4 8:52:44 2000

Sounds very familiar to me!
Mon Feb 7 23:41:56 2000

Wow! My cat has had death threats made against him! He must be such a celebretity! Get over it J. Folks, this is what happens when love can go wrong. Protect your pussies folks.
FAB time on the scene with Mom - Tue Feb 8 0:48:19 2000

"Friendship not marriage" is how I heard one church leader recently say how the church can "ease" into the acceptance of gay relationships. Next I suppose they will be saying it's ok for gay people to "like" each other but not "love" each other.
Good Lord!! - Wed Feb 9 12:16:55 2000

I rang my so called boyfriend tonight to advise him that my cat had been killed. Do you know what this treasure of a man was more concerned with, telling me that he is breaking up with me. You are such a treasure Norman
John - Thu Feb 10 23:47:43 2000

Your words are in anger and bitterness John. I understand your feelings and hope you can move on and sort things out. I felt very sad for the cat when you told me what happened but you asked me if we were ending it and I told you we were. This was the only time you'd talked to me in the past week so what other way could I do it? I'll always love you and I always cared for you and breaking up is never an easy thing but you know why it had to be like this. Your anger will pass.
Heartybroken too. - Fri Feb 11 8:49:21 2000

Happy queer Valentine's Day to you all. Love and cuddles
cgb - Mon Feb 14 12:06:55 2000

Ahh, another lonely Valentines Day. What I thought was my true love is off with his real true love and here I sit wondering where my Valentine is also waiting. Sometime, in the near future I hope I will be enjoying a lovely evening with my Mr Right. In the meantime I dream, I watch and I hope for the ONE to come along.
Romantic Sucker 777 - Mon Feb 14 21:59:33 2000

I was involved in a very intense relationship where I let my heart rule and didn't really listen to my head most of the time despite the fact that it was registering "alarm bells" often. I ignored the reality for the fantasy of a romantic and lasting outcome. It ended in instability, anger, rejection, hostility and heartbreak, not a nice way to end things on the part of both parties. I suppose in a healthy relationship there is balance in all aspects of it. I had to learn a tough lesson there. Hopefully I can grow and learn from the experience and not make the same mistakes again and make the next relationship more sustainable.
New Balance - Thu Feb 17 11:17:48 2000

my man pushes me away. we're in love with each other, but i am not allowed to talk about it. he's happy the way things are. if i get "heavy" he claims i am spinning his head. well, i am cleansing myself of him little by little. i have dumped all photos, notes, etc., anything that reminds me of him. he will sow what he reaps. he will be sorry.
judy - Fri Feb 18 7:57:54 2000

New Balance I know exactly what you mean sounds exactly like me we just have to move on
Sat Feb 19 22:35:09 2000

I wish everyone on this board would use there real name so that we are more adapt to who people are
JOHN - Sun Feb 20 0:18:48 2000

One of the beautiful aspects of these Graffiti boards JOHN is the anonominity which allows people who use and browse them to express their deepest thoughts, trivial or intense, good or bad etc etc freely. If these boards were not anonymous then you probably wouldn't see too much written on them at all (and they probably wouldn't be here). I personally as a socially isolated person have found these boards very useful as a means to express myself and communicate my feelings at least in some way. The anonominity can also make the boards a "fun" thing also and I think Panther is a hero for making them available in the way they are. If you don't want to be anonymous JOHN, you don't have to. I'm glad that we have that option.
Anon. - Sun Feb 20 9:07:46 2000

I have been in a relationship for 14 months. The person who I was in it with is Manic Depressive and this week poured a bottle of alcohol over me called the police on me and refused to give my belongings back, this was after he invited me over to collect these things. I am really wanting to know if anyone else has been in a relationship with a manic depressive person and how they cope with it. I have tried writing to him but he won't reply back Call me an idiot, but I realize the person has problems and I am so much in love with him that even with all that happens I won't let go and want him back.
hb - Sun Feb 20 10:54:47 2000

Pity you are not mature enough to tell the full side of the story there hb and take some responsibility for yourself, your own actions and behaviours. I'm not going to stoop that low as I have morals and a conscience and some responsibility there now. It's a pity to also denigrate someone who does have problems and has been successfully dealing with those problems for several years, looking at himself and growing for that when you have some fairly severe difficulties yourself and are in denial about them. Pity you also can't express and declare your love and have some sense of nurturance, care, comittment and tolerance for someone you say you love so much instead of expressing the vile immature hatred, controlling manipulation, pseudo love and materialistic ideals that you have been raised with and still choose to give in to. I'm tired of being backed into corners there and then being put down by you and your partner in madness when I react under such impossible conditions. Tell everyone the full story if you wish to put me down like you do. The only one you are fooling is yourself. I accepted you for your limitations and I tried to give you the love and understanding I thought you needed because I did love you as unconditionally as anyone could. I am letting go of you and I never want you back. To be honest, you scare me more than anything now and that love that I thought would never die has. As for my own problems and limitations, I am dealing with those, learning, coping and leading a fairly normal independent and social existence. What gives you the authority to sit there and impose your diagnostic judgement on me like you do? You need help yourself there.
Insightfull - Sun Feb 20 14:19:25 2000

well at least answer your emails insightfull
hb - Sun Feb 20 14:31:34 2000

Insightfull just sent another email to you wasnt going to put anything here but you seem to read here more than your emails Take Care
HB - Sun Feb 20 18:34:15 2000

Guys, I'm puzzled. I'm in love. I'm not interested in anyone else. But friends say that it's just not feasible, that I should be prepared for the relationship to become open or an affair to eventually happen - for either of us. People say I'm 'aping a heterosexual ideal' by wishing to commit to one person. I'm not aping any culture. This is the way I feel. Anyone in similar boat?
SevenOfNine - Mon Feb 21 12:12:49 2000

SevenOfNine; Wishing to commit to one person is not neccessarily a heterosexual ideal and many theories abound re the old monogamy vs polygamy debate. They all have credence and yes we do have polygamous tendencies but that doesn't say we all want to sleep around or by any means should do so. Do what you want to do and if you feel right and comfortable with it and it's not hurting anyone or yourself then that's fine. At some stages in your relationships you may wish to explore other possibilities. There is no specific homosexual culture that you "have" to ape either and anyone that tells you that you are "aping" some or other culture may be trying to stereotype you into aping a culture that they feel comfortable themselves with. Be yourself and do what you feel is good for you. Ultimately that's what is important. Perhaps if your relationship isn't working you may need to explore the possibility of another relationship which is not easy but sometimes works out better longer term. I'm quite happy myself to commit to one person if I was in a relationship that worked so you are not alone or "weird" for your feelings.
Out and Proud and being Myself - Mon Feb 21 13:10:17 2000

SevenofNine - your friends are themselves probably missing being in love and having a touch of jealousy. Ignore them. If you want to commit to one person, then that's wonderful, enjoy it. There is no right and wrong in a relationship, it's what feels right for the two of you. Many would say this: that if you have sex with someone else, outside of the relationship, then you are giving yourself in a small way to the third party; that as soon as this happens, then a part of the closeness that you once had is prejudiced, no matter whether it was agreed between you that it would happen. Take it easy and share your thoughts completely with your partner.
Free Spirit - Mon Feb 21 19:08:14 2000

So well said Free Spirit. Perhaps one of the many (and I mean many) reasons that make (what seems to me anyway) the majority of same sex relationships so difficult to sustain long term in the GLBT community is that both partners involved are so reluctant to give their all to their relationships. This notion of free and polygamous love was tested in the 60's and 70's and I don't think it worked then and I believe the statistics show it doesn't really work now. I think many GLBT persons are fooling themselves that monogamy and commitment is a "heterosexual ideal" that shouldn't be applied to this community. Perhaps many heterosexual couples are now aspiring to these other alternative ideals which is also why the statistics point towards increased instability in these relationships (obviously there are other sound reasons for this too such as increased personal awareness, equality etc which are great things in relationships that are truly harmful). Perhaps true love and commitment is a scarce occurence with many in the community and there are elements of jealousy there towards those that do reach that state. As you said, there are no real rights and wrongs and sharing thoughts and emotions is so important. Good luck SevenOfNine and I hope things work well for you and your partner.
Me - Mon Feb 21 21:00:32 2000

Very kind words from you all. Thanks. I don't feel as alone in my thoughts as I believed I was. I love my Steve!!
SevenOfNine - Mon Feb 21 21:28:57 2000

"We are all but mere washing machines, operating on different cycles" An original quote inspired by Miss Balls. Do you think that the publishers of those little calendars would want to publish in next years run?
Iron Styne - Tue Feb 22 1:16:06 2000

How do you ever get over being dumped, is there any books to help you along
heartbroken - Tue Feb 22 14:31:02 2000

Heartbroken - Last night Tina C suggested that you buy one of her records and listen to it. Afterwards you will still feel rotten, but Tina C will have shared her love with you for that time. Also, crying is good, especially on shoulders of friends (always make sure you have friends - even in the heights of a relationship). Also, try to go out and do things you enjoy (or used to). You may surprise yourself and find you are enjoying them.
Panther - Wed Feb 23 9:15:54 2000

Who is tina c?
hb - Wed Feb 23 10:07:04 2000

It's difficult when there are few friends if any there to offer a shoulder to cry on. It's also hard to have to end a relationship that was full of hope and love because it hurt too much, seemed to have the whole world against it, became emotionally complex and created so much angst. It's worse also when the two broken hearts know they still want each other and love each other.
Heartbroken "dumper" - Wed Feb 23 10:56:45 2000

Heartbroken "dumper" "...when the two broken hearts know they still want each other and love each other." So why end it, then?
Free Spirit - Wed Feb 23 19:49:39 2000

www.tinac.net
Panther - Wed Feb 23 20:52:48 2000

Free Spirit; After finally talking to each other again face to face we have both come to that same conclusion. We have both realised just how much we do love each other and that through thick and thin what we feel for each other is incredibly strong and positive. We can work through the resistance, dissaproval (which we now realise stems from jealousy from others who see how strong that bond is between us), complexity and occassional angst together and attempt to deal with it positively. We are still on a big learning curve after 14 months of an incredibly complex (but wonderful) relationship. Together and every bit in love and happy together with each other as when it began after 14 months. We are both planning for long term but we both know we have some work ahead of us to achieve stability. We both feel we will get there and our broken hearts are beating together again. We never stopped loving each other the whole time.
True love; the glue that won't come unstuck. - Thu Feb 24 9:52:57 2000

As a postscript to above also, we both need to lighten up a bit and enjoy ourselves a bit more which I resolve to do. Things get so serious at times it becomes scary. I think this graffiti board has helped us a lot to try and stay in touch at times when we couldn't do it any other way and also vent some of our anger and just share with others. Thanks Panther for providing it. You don't know how valuable it's been. TinaC looks a real hoot too!
I love my man - Thu Feb 24 10:20:19 2000

I love you free fm.
Craig Payne (sarcasm) - Fri Feb 25 21:42:54 2000

How do you ever get over beeing rejected as a poss.regular `friend`for sex and more,if you are ok for sex on a quickie base(once only ) ? Newtown asks Redfern and the rest of the world !
Harry - Mon Feb 28 14:42:56 2000

2 wheels , I meant you !
Mon Feb 28 14:44:58 2000

Harry Some people are heartless bastards and therefore not worth it. But that shouldn't be the main reason to let go. What should be is that everyone is able and is free to make their own decisions, and should have those decisions respected. Put yourself in his position: if for some reason you didn't want someone you'd just had sex with to become a regular f**k buddy, even though the other man wanted that, you'd want to be able to say no, unimpeded. It's the same for him.
Also, what will happen if you face a situation of unrequited love? You'll think that what's happening now is a breeze!
Free Spirit - Mon Feb 28 17:26:56 2000

Well, Free Spirit, I'm one of those heartless bastards. Love is a commodity which none of us can afford. Sex is nothing but an ablution befitting that of a public lavatory. Once you're in you do your bussiness, then when you finish, yuo flush, andwash your hands of it. No names, no numbers, no mess!!
poolooluen - Mon Feb 28 22:05:52 2000

poolooluen - Love had been commoditized, but it is not a commodity. Neither is sex just a bodily function. I hope one day you get to find out the difference.
Panther - Tue Feb 29 9:27:24 2000

I second that Panther. One piece of advice: if you are in love with someone don't tell the gay community (or lesbian community in fact) because they will rip it down due to their so called sad experiences. Yeah right like we have not been hurt. So many on this wall have seen the hurt side of love. Ok yeah it sucks big time but to exhibit total rejection of future love, including the self, seems to me to negate us as human beings. So if you fall in love don't tell your friends or the Wickham/Oxford/Chapel Street/Mars Bar etc etc crowd because they will rip out your soul and try to stop you from getting one of the most important things in your life. Love and if they don't like it because they got hurt walk away from them and love the person you want to be with.
Mike - Tue Feb 29 22:44:09 2000

My experience of the various gay scenes in Australia has been a little different. I always seem to meet guys who want husbands, and the community hasn't really had a positive or negative effect on their resolve or mine to continue the relationship. Now, if only I could resolve my own internal uncertainties . . .
Devil's Felch - Tue Feb 29 22:52:41 2000

Poolooluen:you sound very jaded.
Wed Mar 1 16:48:21 2000

Have we all noticed the many letters to the editor(s) lately from people concerned at the shallowness of our scene. Beautiful city, ugly queens. Maybe if we all started giving a damn about each other, we may find happiness within as well. Go Sydney - you are rapidly disappearing up your own selfish little arseholes!
Wed Mar 1 19:47:17 2000

Hello good people. May I have some advice from you. I met this great guy last year and we became pretty close; I would say best friends. Sadly I feel in love with him, but I guess I also "love him" as in like a friend, if it was more it would be great but ok its not so why fret? Anyway he found out and we had a talk and I guess for a while I was a little obessed but that seemed to change. I love this guy a lot. But he went through a similiar experience the difference being the guy he had a crush on left Brisbane to live in Melbourne. Now he acts a bit strange like last night we were at a party and he firstly ignored me and then when I was dancing with his female best friend who is now my friend he stormed out of the room. When he left he said make sure you call me and come out with me next Saturday. He is a very busy person as I am now and I don't feel an overwhelming urge to call him every day. But I just don't understand his behaviour. We go from a civil conversation then he starts ranting about how he wants a husbane but then he got aggressive when I started talking about this guy who asked me out. All I want is this: I want my best friend back not necessarily at my expense but I know it will take time and patience to gain his trust back. Its crazy to be crucified for loving someone but it seems to be as these boards sound out you get in trouble for loving someone but its easy to hate. I love him, I want peace with him and I care about him. Any advice you all can give would be appreciated but I will tell you know I am not giving up on him but letting go of him is easy. In fact I think the letting go has caused problems. Anyway thanks in advance if anyone knows why he does not want a relationship which is fine yet gets wants to see me then please comment. Thanks
Paul - Sun Mar 5 19:22:56 2000

Paul - All I can suggest is that you find somewhere comfortable when you are both calm and sober and have a big talk. Maybe agree that you will both hear each other out. If he is a best friend then you should be able to talk. Maybe you will decide that you both need space for a while, or you will sort things out. Maybe you will have trouble telling each other what you are really feeling. Communication is hard, you both need to work at it.
Panther - Tue Mar 7 12:50:21 2000

Thanks the space idea is looking like the answer.
Paul - Tue Mar 7 18:26:16 2000

Paul - oo-eck! To add to what Panther wrote...a decent relationship with this guy is going to be tough if he gets jealous so easily and aggressive with it. Some people are naturally jealous, it's part of their make up, Taureans in particular. You come across as the opposite, just loving and open. He seems confused, basically - you said he ranted about wanting a husband, yet he doesn't want a relationship. Some people just don't know what to do when love comes into the picture. It's so foreign to them that they take months to allow into their hearts a feeling that others can accept in days or even hours. They feel it, they know they want it, yet it frightens them. They let their head rule. The only solution then is space, though the cynic in me who's been hurt by that sort might say don't bother, see someone else quickly! Think it all through, but listen to your heart, and when you have a good talk, try to suggest the same to him.
Free Spirit - Tue Mar 7 22:00:02 2000

Actually Free Spirit I am Taurus and can see I got jealous but could snap myself out of it very quickly. The problem is this getting rid of him or letting go if its kinder. I mean I am friends with his friends and one in particular this girl and I have a great friendship going. Secondly its the guilt factor: is this obsessive love? Is it unhealthy? Why can't we still be friends? Does he have power over me? Come on sure it goes around and round in my head therefore its obsessive but isn't it time to move on. What I mean is, ok I made a mistake telling him I love, yes I admit to clinger to mother for most of my life and attracting unavailable men, whoever they are. My point is I struggle because I have to use the cliche gotten a life and my days of obsession, unhealthy relationships are dwindling. This is like alcoholism you fall off the wagon but you get up quicker. For example I met up with a guy I was obsessed with in 1996 and we had sex and it was like oh this was really nice, good to see you bye. Simply put we acted like human beings something rare, for me once it was, in obsessive relationships. The other point is does this guy have power over me; yes and no. When I act what we term healthy, ie leave him to do what we has to do without controlling I suddenly cop the opposite problem. He starts wanting my attention. I thought when you let go and move on the thing gets better. I am also starting to see the meaness of the love affection's object. Has anyone read The Miller's Tale in the Canterbury Tales. She treats the love lorn knight like crap, he gets her years later and does not really want her. This whole thing is complex: I want his friendship but I am not willing to be manipulated. But am I being manipulted? I am obessive but isn't it time to let go of that? Anyway to Free Spirit and Panther thanks for the advice space seems to be the thing to do and at this stage I am going to do this. After reading some of the above postings I conclude that the amount of guilt placed on us because we love someone is stupid and unhealthiness is in the eye of the beholder. Delusion, denial? Idealism? Sure but if I can see someone or in fact a couple of guys I was once in love with and its like best mates years after the fact then there is hope here. Thanks for letting me rave on because I am getting sick of being blamed by self and society (generally) because I love. He doesn't want me? Oh well his loss. Thanks guys for the advice it helps to release all this stuff and get on with the "real" world.
Paul - Wed Mar 8 9:21:03 2000

All men are bastards
turning straight - Wed Mar 8 21:10:22 2000

I find it interesting that it was mentioned that if you tell the object of your unrequirted, unreturned love whatever it is that they will control you and dangle you on a string. Whilst not all guys are like that I suggest to anyone to be on the lookout for this. The guy I had an experience has a guy who he says is wrapped around his little finger. I only now notice how he enjoys toying with emotions. You know we cry over a guy or girl and yet later we find out what they are like. Does anyone think that unrequited love is really life's way of protecting us from total utter creeps? Based on what I have seen lately I say yes.
Control your Controller - Wed Mar 8 23:18:25 2000

Control your controller: What you say could be true but what of the scenario where your unrequited love maybe is not aware (or assertive or receptive or whatever) of your love and literally caves in to you on finding out (and they all lived happily ever after etc etc). I think it would be very difficult to generalise about this topic. There are too many reasons why love can be unrequited and as people we are all so different. Maybe "love" involves an element of being controlled and controlling in any relationship (as perhaps so many other emotional based traits). If it's lifes way of protecting us from utter creeps then wouldn't it much simpler for "life" to have us not fall in love with them at all? Love is an emotion in my mind so any "love" we have will involve some play or toying with emotions. We all "want" the love of our lives and will play games within reason to get what we want. It's the reason or commonsense factor that determines how much we get hurt in the end.
I can relate to what you say. - Thu Mar 9 12:07:14 2000

Re the last two postings tend to agree with both. I think this illustrates balance in life. For example, we end friendships or we move from Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Australia but I think its unreasonable to say oh this is forever. Control I had the same issues with my guy he lives in Brisbane and his friend now lives in Sydney. Yet this guy in Bris commands the guy in Sydney: he told me so. I had this enormous crush on this guy in 96 and I went ballistic: phone number changes, nervous breakdowns et al. I wanted him so badly. Anyway a week ago (and this proves my point to an extent that moving on and letting go is fine but life sometimes has other ideas), I met up with him. We had sex, we laughed, spent time and I went home happy and satisfied that I did not have to stay with him. I also agree with the reply I guess even in 50 to 60 year marriages there are elements of control and co-dependancy, enabling and all the so called evils and emotional baggage. (Does anyone think this is overrated or normal?) Nevertheless the advice of Panther, the owner of this site I presume, is right. Space. Now this is turning into a problem: I have to create some space so I can get over this, get the life whatever but his friends are my friends. These issues are very complex but I guess I have learnt things from this. I only hope I get past this stage, as I guess some of you on this board have. I just hope its sooner not later. Thanks.
Paul - Thu Mar 9 16:53:01 2000

I happened to find this today and am fascinated by all this rubbish. Now don't get me wrong you all have good points but here is mine. Unwanted love is crap. If he/she/it and/or job/possession/house is not meant to be yours too bad. Live with it. But like an above posting says forever is a long time and you might just end up with he/she et al. You may not want them after all, but, maybe you do. To Paul re baggage, I spent years on self-help books and I don't regret a thing but I am really really really tired of blaming myself for falling in love with those that don't want me. Yeah ok sure there are things in me that attract it but age does bring wisdom and personally I find they do take power over you. Paul you read the Miller's Tale too. There are many other examples in literature and the poor victim, you and I, shed tears whilst he is buried to the nuts in some 18 yo. Well I think its time we took back our power. Unrequited love be damned I ain't no fatal attraction. If anyone who is on the receiving end reads these walls and condems, controls or manipulated the one who loves you think twice. You may want Mr Perfect one day and he will flick you away with his finger whilst you sulk in the suburbs. Take back your power people, cut off or as suggested make "space" from your beloved, see and do other things and keep saying to yourself your lovable and its him that can't live without you. Viva revolution and catch the wind its more interesting than him (her it et al)
Fatal Non-Attraction - Thu Mar 9 18:53:48 2000

There's really only one kind of love worth having, and that's unconditional love. And that means having no control over your loved one, and therefore that means that if the one you love is exercising or trying to exercise control over you, then you have to do something about the situation. The best relationship of all will exist where neither party has any expectation about the relationship, none at all.

I was once in a situation of unrequited love, and it was unbelievably awful. I was completely heartbroken, even though I can now see very clearly that he wasn't right for me. But at the time: all my friends were telling me to forget him, but I couldn't, and so I wasted such a lot of time and made myself into an emotional wreck in the process. But I had to learn that it was allright to love and to lose that love, knowing that in the grand scheme of things that is life, it would all work out right in the end. It was an important lesson. Now, I do know and I do accept that it will all work out right, and that's giving me the freedom to be more relaxed about life, to enjoy the ride. It's great! I know that I'll meet the right one, and that when that happens, I'll *know*, probably straightaway. I think that that can be the same for everyone.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 10 7:23:18 2000

Sure Free Spirit but are you open to the possibilty that if this man was not right for me if suddenly he arrives again and oh goodness me he was Mr Right after all? Yes of course you are correct in all the above postings but what I am saying is I may let go of the love that does not want me but if he comes back (and yes one did and we are now fantastic friends and very close) then great. All I am saying is unconditional love is the best but it just that too many dramas are created over the ones we want. Fatal non-attraction is blunt and a little over the top but I too am tired of the worry and stress. If he does not want you then its their problem. This in all 12 step programmes and New Age madness seems to be forgotten. Sure its our responsibility to get over this but constant blaming of self over this is the real enemy not Mr Perfect who is so up himself he can't recognise real love. Also if unwanted love happens why not go after love later in life after the pain goes away? Please remember all perhaps it is all for the best but then again if he/she comes back or later in life they end up your friend or something don't shut the door. Fatal I think your correct: this is overrated, and it is time for positive depections of unrequited love where the one in love is seen simply as someone of value. So your in love with the unattainable. If he is unattainable then he (or she) is basically creating a barrier because they can't love. If they do this then get yourself someone else because falling in love with the so-called wrong person is getting boring. Personally I am glad people are writing on this wall showing another side because I too am tired of the unattainable he/she/it exercising power. Go Fatal.
Control your Controller - Fri Mar 10 17:02:27 2000

Wow people who have seen the light.
Sat Mar 11 20:48:10 2000

I absolutely agree. I got sick of getting my heart broken and read all those new age books, "you can heal your life", "women who love too much" etc etc. Who says it's your own fault if you 'attract' these people into your life??? I tell you, they all seem normal at first, and then once they have you hooked they turn into nighmares. Those books make you feel needy and inadequate on top of your feelings of hurt and rejection. I think sometimes they do more harm than good. And what's this crap about forgiveness? That you should forgive all the ones who hurt you, because they are only "doing the best way they know how". Bullsh*t! Some people are just plain bad, some people go out of their way to do horrible things just so they can get some power trip out of it. They're the sick ones, the crippled ones, not the people who already know how to love. Someone should write a book on "how to get over your inner bastard"
nik - Tue Mar 14 8:41:20 2000

That's spot on Nik. I do think forgiving is the key to happiness but having said that you are 100 percent correct in your statements. You see I believe that we do attract people including creeps into our life but not 100 percent all the time and we are not always to blame. These books whilst they did help me need to be questioned: simply put nik you are right: they foster self-blame. Sometimes it is the other person not always us. Thanks for stating a point of view that is balanced becuase new age people tend to be too obsessed with karma and its all your fault you asked for it. That may be true but not in every case. Being a victim is ok sometimes and whilst I followed quite a lot of these books and took responsibility for myself I now believe I did not attract every single thing. If a comet decided to hit earth how did I attract it? Did I need to have such an experience of annilation. No! I may not be a victim but I defend other's right to be if they want. Good points Nik
Mike - Tue Mar 14 12:59:10 2000

Well, I don't know about forgiveness being the key to happiness. I used to feel incredibly guilty and un-evolved for not being able to forgive those who 'done me wrong' but now I have reclaimed my unforgiving nature. It's who i am and it makes me strong - and it ensures that those people will never, ever find a chink in my armour again. I feel that if I forgive them, they have won. It's not that I spend all day seething about the past, because now I am in a very happy, wonderful relationship - and sometimes I do stop and think that it may not have happened, had I not met with these 'baddies' in the first place - but it allows me to walk along with my head held high, knowing that they will never know how much they hurt me, or what I think and feel, and they can never touch me again. The gay/lesbian community being what it is, I run into 'them' from time to time and now I look them in the eye, knowing that I have the moral high ground and I'm not going to lay like a dog at their feet waiting for them to throw me a bone!!
nik - Tue Mar 14 15:39:35 2000

Cool it, guys! You're trying to fight the Law of Attraction, and you just can't. It's real and it exists. It means that those of one energy level will attract into their lives those of a similar energy level. If you're going to set out to be unforgiving, then you have to expect to meet some bastards. Look at it this way: haven't you met, by "chance", people with very similar interests and views to you? There's no chance involved: it's the Law of Attraction at work, and there is *nothing* you can do to stop it. It's great, really: the nice guys get the nice guys. Nik, I don't understand. What makes you think that if you don't forgive, you have the moral high ground? :-)

The same can be said of karma. What goes around comes around. Again, there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. It should be welcomed, as once you realise it's strength, you can work with it and bring goodness back to you.

If you read a new age or self-help book and you think that it's demeaning you or fostering self-blame, then you're reading the wrong one or maybe your attitude towards it is wrong. If a book is *making* you feel guilty, then put it away or chuck it out, as it's no good for you or anyone. Guilt - leave it out. But please don't leave spirituality aside just because at this moment or with this book it doesn't seem to fit.
Free Spirit - Tue Mar 14 22:30:01 2000

Karma is rubbish. There are plenty of good people who have had bad things happen to them, and plenty of bad people who have had so many good things happen to them. "Karma" is just a defense mechanism that we use to kid ourselves that everything will turn out alright in the end.
Tue Mar 14 22:48:24 2000

i agree
Wed Mar 15 8:18:29 2000

So Free spirit, what you're saying is that we should forgive those that are bastards to us? Isn't that kind of like endorsing their behaviour? So if I go up to one of the bastards and say "Hi how are you? how's life?" etc. Am I not really saying "you treated me like sh*t but that's ok i forgive you, it's OK to treat people like sh*t"? I consider myself a nice person and definitely did not, I feel, deserve to "attract" these negative poeple in my life, the unforgiving nature came afterwards. The forgiving and moral high ground have nothing to do with each other. I feel I have the moral high ground because I DO - they were bastards and I was not - end of story. Believe me, I have tried the forgiving approach, have tried to make overtures at friendship with varying results. The most common being that the person in question believes that you still have feelings for them, and treats you with disdain or ignores you so you don't 'get the wrong idea'. Chrrrrrriiissssstttt!!! How humiliated do you want to be?? The Louise Hays of the world have a lot to answer for. One of her pieces of advice is to send out vibes of lurve to the ones who hurt you. Now why would anyone want to do that if: a) you're trying to get over them; b) Likely to have that love used as a weapon against you? I don't think sooooooooooo.
nik - Wed Mar 15 8:32:24 2000

Perhaps instead of trying to consciously "forgive or not forgive" someone for hurting us, we could truly say we are "over them" or the experience when we reach indifference about it. Time and moving on, finding someone else, getting out and living your own life etc seems to help us to do that. Holding grudges, inner hatred, wanting revenge, and even submission to me says we are still affected by a bad experience and haven't really let go or perhaps moved on. These feelings only lead to emotional problems for the holder of these feelings long term. As for Karma, I think that concept (along with spritual intervention or justice) is a bit of a defence mechanism that I'm not really into. I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions and destiny and I respect others views on these spiritual matters but I don't personally go with them. There are bastards in this world and there are nice people too (as are many in between). The world is full of all types, that's what makes it interesting. Not all bastards will get their come uppance but I don't want to become a bastard myself just to make the bastards out there feel miserable. Deep down, they are people with problems and feelings too.
Sated - Wed Mar 15 9:43:56 2000

Ad deleted.

yes girls don't do that sort of thing do they
Wed Mar 15 10:16:11 2000

Free Spirit I am not actually saying that you are totally incorrect. There is a Law of Attraction and Karma but what people don't realise is that it is not always the case. How can you say I attract a truck to run me over and then turn around and say "oh he/she/it had to have that expereience". What about AIDS: sorry but I don't believe most if not all have to have that happen to spiritually grow. Another thing that does not always work is to run around saying "oh I am beautiful, I am rich I am healthy" and suddenly your in debt, broken up or lying in hospital and you new ages say "oh its your subconscious". My point and this does relate to love is that sure we attract: I don't doubt that but Free Spirit it is not always our fault. It may be my responsibility for most things and I am quite happy to take that but to say everything is my creation, doing etc and its always karma to me is wrong. Sometimes other people and the government, landlord, other person are at fault. Finally this crap about being jealous. Its all good and well to run around looking at happy gay or hetro couples or North shore houses and say "oh I can have that" and then you are still in debt and poor. You can think all you like about meeting Mr Right or living in a mansion by saying affirmations for years but FS do you? I doubt it. I have met Louise Hay I don't doubt she is mostly right but to say blanket statements like its karma, you asked for it (what Free Spirit are you saying people ask for Aids?) and don't be jealous even if your boss is sailing the harbour while you slave at work (these are just examples) or when the hetro couple in front of you at the movies have their tongues down each other's throats and you can't even hold hands with your male date. My whole point in all this is balance and frankly Nik has the right idea in reclaiming a right to be non-forgiving. New Age is ok but that everything is our fault is not. Finally I must state this is not bitterness just my views and I am just glad others are sensible about life and not always going on spritually trips that can't be quantified.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 11:10:23 2000

Free Spirit, Looks like you've made the connection. You GO girl :)))
oprah(surname witheld) - Wed Mar 15 14:04:27 2000

Yes Mike, I agree. i don't really think you attract bad things into your life. 'Sometimes bad things happen to good people' is phrase that seems to be in vogue at the moment. I think you can look back at a bad experiences and think 'Wow I lived through that'. It can give you a sense of pride in your survival skills and a yardstick by which you can measure your progress. Experience is valuable, and events that happen to you - good or bad - teach you about life and your abilities. You can be attracted to a certain type of person which is probably why repeat opffenders may seem to recur in one's life - but I don't think its because bad people purposely seek you. I'm not looking at these 'bastards' in a purely negative way, after all, it was all the bad experiences which pushed me into the arms of the kind, loving, giving, individual that I am with now. It would be nice to believe that if you put your trust in the universe, it will all turn out to be all right. I think this a purely western luxury, as I think people living in starvation and disease in 3rd world countries may beg to differ. Those books can be useful but they seem to encourage you to walk arouind in a self-induced state of euphoric ignorance. I can see where they're coming from with forgiveness but in all truth, doesn't everybody get that stab of annoyance and the 'I've been f*cked over' feeling when faced with an ex? Maybe the new agers haven't met with the same type of people, or their 'everything's cool' trance makes them shut their eyes to it. It's new age-ism, not religion that is the new panacea of the masses. Also, I don't doubt that the 'bastards' have feeling and problems as well, but I won't be crying into my beer for them any time soon, as their feelings and problems are probably of a very egocentric nature. The difference between us and them is: we do our best to solve our problems without hurting other human beings and they make themselves feel in control by taking it out on the rest of the world.
nik - Wed Mar 15 14:07:03 2000

Exactly nik these are the sort of things I believe too.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 17:31:45 2000

Exactly Nik I agree with the above.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 17:50:31 2000

By forgiving someone you're not condoning their behaviour. You don't have to say anything or even be in the same city or even continent to send out love vibes to someone.

Briefly, Mike said "You can think all you like about meeting Mr Right or living in a mansion by saying affirmations for years but FS do you? I doubt it." No? OK, in the past few weeks I've made (a) the closest of friends, who started off as a love interest, who I share a great deal of things with, and (b) a wonderful man, who I share even more in common with. We're very much in love. Sorry, I'm a bit pushed for time - he's gonna call. But as you can tell, both of these are the sweetest of men. I've made a lot of friends in the past few months who are both spiritual and gay, and lesbian too. Oh, and thanks, Oprah! :-)
Free Spirit - Wed Mar 15 21:40:55 2000

Well FS thats great good on you. You do sound like a great guy from your cyber postings and I don't doubt that affirmations or whatever work for you. But they don't for everyone. There are lots on this board who have been hurt and I do agree with Nik about attraction. My point is that it works for you FS and that's great you have found men. But it does not work for everyone and although (for example in 12 step programs) we have a desire to share our knowledge that has brought us happiness if its god or going to the gym or just simple affirmations. But part of that to me is accepting others have a different path and beliefs and part of that is that they don't believe in karma or they believe, with our without being a "victim" (an overused term if ever there was one) and they attract wrong people or get beaten up. Like Nik said you meet them and they are fine but it starts, the crap. For someone to say oh its the law of attraction your subconscious mind attracted it is wrong to me, but not necessarily false. We want partners and we deserve them, there is enough learning from the wrong ones. Anyway Free Spirit I hope you are happy, I really do because I am not attacking you just saying that people like Nik or Fatal or Sated or whoever have a different view and life is unfair sometimes or all the time and we have the right to feel sorry for ourselves without condeming. That's why people write on this wall, to understand why they feel bad over a broken love affair. Anyway I would like to thank all for contributing on this time for me to change channel and give others a chance at posting because their are people out there hurting over love. If you are just don't be hard on yourselfs and clog yourselves up with self-blame from others who have seen the light. Good luck and love to all.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 22:49:24 2000

How refreshing to come back to this wall and see people with non love sick views. Being in love is great but all the baggage: no thanks.
Paul - Thu Mar 16 9:44:35 2000

Free Spirit:Re your comment that Taureans are jealous.Not so darling.You have been reading to many glossy mag star guides.In fact Taureans are often very possesive.They like to own things.Possesiveness and jealousy are two quite distinct things.
Thu Mar 16 9:52:01 2000

If anything Taureans are the least jealous people I have met.
Thu Mar 16 17:22:47 2000

Well thanks, guys, that's good news if correct. I'm expecting to meet one, "the big one", one day. It does say that (jealous) about them in many different character guides, but three have said it aint so I'll defer! Although - aren't possessiveness and jealousy very closely related?
This *isn't* a personal, but if anyone wants to continue the kind of discussions that we've been having here by email or whatever, then that'd be cool. innerpeace@one.net.au.
Free - Thu Mar 16 20:20:28 2000

I don't feel FS that I am jealous or possessive all the time but I do admit that it is a Taurus trait. I have been that way but these days tend not to be. The universe apparently does not like jealous humans which is of course society's way of saying "oh look you can't have that job, guy, money etc etc but you have to be happy for them or else here's a car crash for you." Which is fair but has anyone had their face rubbed in it by the person who got the guy or the job you want? Still again FS I can't always say everything about karma and stuff is wrong. Sometimes if you are in love with someone its best not to tell too many people: I have noticed how many gay guys and some lesbians try to interfere and break up couples. I have also seen this succeed and its not good. Good luck FS with your guys thats great.
Mike - Fri Mar 17 10:09:10 2000

Well I've got a bit of a confession. I'm a taurus too. LOL
nik - Fri Mar 17 10:33:52 2000

maybe the universe just has it in for the bulls!!
nik - Fri Mar 17 10:34:31 2000

It depends what you mean by Jealousy.In relationships I would think it is around not wanting your partner to persue other friendships or not wanting your partner spending time with other people.I am a Taurean and not only do I not mind but I encourage my partner to have friendships with others.I am not jealous of these relationships or the time he spends with other friends. I feel secure with my partner and trust that he feels the same with me so there is no need for jealousy. If however someone tries to "move in" on my partner my possesiveness would be quickly activated.This does seem to happen on occaisions when I am out with him as some people seem to have no respect for the fact that two people might be in a relationship with one another and can quite blatantly make a pass at one of them My reaction in these situations may stem from possesiveness but not from jealousy. Does this make sense?
Non Jealous Taurean - Fri Mar 17 11:36:33 2000

I think that Taurenas are more likely to go out and get what they want rather then wasting time being envious of others.
Fri Mar 17 12:28:34 2000

non-jealous, you hit the nail on the head there!
nik - Fri Mar 17 12:52:54 2000

Ohmigod! We're surrounded by Taureans! :-)
Non-jealous, you do make sense. Mike, all the best to you too. And to Nik, with your love.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 17 18:35:21 2000

Thanx FS, all the best 2U2!
nik - Fri Mar 17 20:00:48 2000

Hmmmm - I've just been thinking about this and the penny has dropped. Not about Taureans and jealousy or possessiveness, but this: you two guys who've been throwing out doubts about new age stuff are Taureans, right? Taureans being those most bemused by, yes, new age stuff. Thinking about my future, er...do I really need to be *that* grounded? :-))) There's no need to answer... :-) Have fun, everyone.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 17 21:41:01 2000

Astrology has absolutely no scientific basis. The surgeon who delivered you has more gravitational pull than where any of the planets are at that time. I can't believe that it is the year 2000 and people are still believing hocus-pocus like this.
Sat Mar 18 8:36:03 2000

The fact that astrology has no scientific basis *under known science* is irrelevant. Fifty years ago the internet had no scientific basis. Yet someone could have put the wires and everything else together and it would have worked *even then*. The technical facts about it *already existed*, they were waiting to be found. Australia wasn't *discovered* by Cook or whoever, it was waiting to be found. Outside of the rubbish that is the daily forecasts in the papers, astrology works. Our scientists are unable to explain why - yet.
There is a well-known survey conducted by a French team, that set out to prove what anonymous wanted us to believe. They looked at the birthdates and occupations of over a million people, found strong correlations all over the place and had to eat their words.
The science we have on this planet is very very basic in comparison to that elsewhere, as is the way we treat our fellow beings. But with ever-increasing rapidity we are advancing and more of us are coming round to the idea that love is always the answer. These are wonderful times. Peace.
Free Spirit - Sat Mar 18 9:23:01 2000

The surgeon who delivered me is unable to make the oceans of the world rise and fall.This is done by the pull of the moon.Perhaps the surgeon who delivered you was the man in the moon!The world wasn't flat until it was discovered to be round.It was always round.It is extremely arrogant to belive that nothing exists unless humans know about it or to belive that at this point of time human knowledge is absolute.If everyone believed this there would never have been a quest for knowledge.
Moonbaby - Sat Mar 18 12:47:21 2000

Its not so much doubts that karma or things are real its just that I don't always believe Karma is responsible for everything. What concerns me is explanation: why bad things happen to those who serve and care whilst evil people live on. Maybe one day we will be told. Also why do we want love yet it alludes us? I think as good as astrology is to sit around going I can't date him he is a Leo, Virgo or whatever is self-defeating and limiting. FS let us know how your friends are going!
Mike - Sat Mar 18 13:53:38 2000

Mike, the thing about karma is that knowing that it happens, it's unnecessary to think that evil people live on. Everyone lives on, but karma happens, and even if you can't see someone getting back what they've just given out, it really does happen. The universal mind sorts it out.
I don't know why bad things just seem to happen either, although maybe I've just answered that question! Just recently, I had a good pushbike stolen. I've no idea why this bad thing happened. Strangely, getting on for a year ago, I had a reading in which the loss of my bike was forecast. For months after, I was really careful with it, then in the last few months I'd forgotten all about what I had been told.
Why do we all want to love and be loved? That's why we're here, to learn to love.
I know several instances of real solid love affairs where in theory the two shouldn't match, if star signs are taken into account. The guy I'm in love with - he's an Aquarian and I'm a Piscean. Theoretically, he should be scared of my intensity, but in reality he's *very* loving as well and it's happened very quickly. I've no doubt that in the great scheme of things, we were meant to meet. Life's good.
Free Spirit - Sat Mar 18 14:51:14 2000

To do a chart comparison between two people it is necessary to have a complete and accurate chart for both people. There are ten planets or luminaries and twelve houses that they can be in and this is just the beginning. A huge emphasis has been put on Sun Signs in popular astrology. It is not enough to just say I'm a taurus and your an Aries so we cant relate. The purpose of astrology and looking at charts is to help with understanding others, their energies and oneself. Two people may have sun signs that are not completly compatable but may have other factors in their charts (moon signs or placements of venus, mars and saturn in particular) That will overide non compatable sun signs.Using sun signs to not relate to people is a missuse of astrological analysis.All people of all sunsigns may have valuable things to teach us.
Moonbaby - Sat Mar 18 15:11:32 2000

Free Spirit I am sorry about your bike. Ok Louise says that if we steal even in time from others we get karma but again could it be it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time? As much as I scoff at some things yes I do see that we are here to learn love, especially self-love.
Mike - Sat Mar 18 19:29:46 2000

I think we are getting off topic.
Panther - Sat Mar 18 20:12:49 2000

More like getting off the planet.
Sat Mar 18 20:55:29 2000

Move this rubbish to the Off Topic Wall
Sat Mar 18 20:56:58 2000

The Off Topic Wall is the home of snide remarks. This one is the Love Graffiti Wall.
Sat Mar 18 22:49:41 2000

And hocus-pocus trying to get everyone to fit into a little box determined by the date of your birth. This is as bad as the Churches condemnation of homosexuals based on the writings from a bunch of repressed homophobes from two millenia ago.
This wall has gone to crap - Sun Mar 19 11:30:03 2000

Oh like sorry for trying to tell people that love does not need to be a battlefield Panther and self-esteem issues and self-love are important. Back to "oh he doesn't love me, where's the pills"
Mike - Sun Mar 19 17:47:59 2000

He meant all the off-topic stuff about starsigns
Sun Mar 19 18:32:07 2000

There have been periods of a week or more when no-one has put anything on this wall.
Apologies if this piece *seems* off topic to some (thought it's about love), but it wouldn't be right to let "This wall has gone to crap"'s remarks sit there unanswered. Christ did not condemn homosexuals in any way. Christ's teachings were edited and edited and re-interpretted again and again, mixed in with some homophobia from well before his time, with the aim of controlling people through religion. Christ teachings were not in line with the religious elders of the time. Christ spoke of love.
I'm not trying to make this wall into something that it hasn't been. Apologies if the star sign stuff appeared off-topic, although to many, it is very relevant, as it's about characters, which inter-relate in relationships, and tend towards love. Love is always the answer, even for anonymous beings. [Probably a fire sign! :-) ]
Free Spirit - Sun Mar 19 22:14:30 2000

Actually I am a fire sign but I know people who share my birthday who wouldn't fit your crazy scheme. And if you knew anything about the bible you would know that Jesus didn't right any of it. His disciples (supposedly) wrote it after he'd stopped teachin/preaching and gone off and had kids with Mary.
Mon Mar 20 1:40:41 2000

My boyfriend of three years has just moved to London. He was planning to move there when we met but then just never got around to it. He has gone to learn some of those important lessons of life that you can only learn by yourself when your travelling. I sent him with my best wishes and all the love and strength in the universe but now I want him back. Being single sux. I know he will be back when the time is right and I don't want him till he has learnt those lessons but I am very lonely now. I want someone to cuddle at night, someone to look after and someone to look after me. I have had to ask for a month of no contact because every time I talk to him it emotionally takes me back to him walking through the departures gate. There is no set date for his return but it will be at least a year. I need to know how to cope in the meantime and learn to live as a single again and not wait by the door. He is staying with friends so i know he is safe and because everything is new around him it is exciting. Everything around me is a memory and while I am slowly making some changes it is not easy, it is almost like someone has died. Has anybody been through anything similar and do you have any suggestions of how to cope? BND - Tue Apr 13 9:20:11 1999 They say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That was what I wrote last year and he has been gone 12 months now. It hasn't been easy but we are still in love and that love is stronger. We have had to negotiate many things along the way but I think thats an important part of any relationship. At one stage we thought we had grown apart (see top of this wall) but seeing each other again proved that wrong. He was here for Mardi Gras and while it will always be difficult to say goodbye the growth he has made as a person and how happy that growth has made him makes the goodbyes a little easier. Perhaps I will move to London early next year, maybe it's time for me to get out of my "rut" and experiance someplace new. One thing I do know is that he is the only boy in the world for me be it here or in London. Love you DB
BND - Mon Mar 20 17:05:50 2000

Astrology, which someone was able to "right" as being *my* crazy scheme (I'd be honoured if I didn't know that it was impossible to invent it) is indeed so crazy that I was able to guess the righter's starsign correctly from two lines. End of discussion.

Mike, in answer to your request, this one is...! It's almost indescribably wonderful being in love with someone that you just can't imagine arguing with.
Free Spirit - Mon Mar 20 23:33:59 2000

If the consenses is that astrology is crap and you would rather whine on about your tragic relationships ,so be it.A better name for this wall however would be the "love addicts" wall. Wallow in it all darlings.....wallow!
Tue Mar 21 9:13:51 2000

"might as well face it, we're addicted to lllllllloooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee!" :)
nik - Tue Mar 21 18:59:17 2000

Sometimes I wish I could have a cold heartless attitude about love and affection like Tue Mar 21 9:13:51 2000 above. Sometimes I also wish I couldn't give a damn about other people and use them and abuse them without any conscience at all. Sometimes I wish I lacked any empathy and was just out for a good time in any way I could get it. Thank heavens I can't and thank heavens I've felt that indescribable touch of warmth for other peoples feelings and the arrow of cupid. Addiction maybe, but then again don't all real cold heartless queens take drugs anyway darling?
Try it someday, you may like it. - Tue Mar 21 23:36:47 2000

I don't know darling. Do they?
Wed Mar 22 21:45:56 2000

BND... strange i havent been on this board for ages, and well i come her and read your comment and think.. hey have i not read this before??? Yes well, Good luck to you both, I am half way through my LDR with my partner..... and we are doing the best that we can. u know its not easy... but i have learnt through friends and lovers of past.... You have to fly in your direction and do whats best for you, if it is meant to be, your paths will once again cross and at this point you will both know if it is "right"... It is healthy.... there is nothing productive or secure about clipping a birds wings....
The happy poof - Thu Mar 23 6:39:55 2000

LDR = long-distance relationship
Thu Mar 23 19:28:06 2000

Don't people choose a LDR so they have to avoid the reality of a real relationship. Its like the "theres only one person in the whole world for me ie. my soulmate. and I havn't found him yet or if I have he doesn't realise it or he lives on the moon so its like so hard" line of thought.Its all a way of avoiding real intimate relationships cause in reality you don't really want one but don't want to take responsibility for this fact.
Sat Mar 25 12:13:58 2000

Play it again Sam.
Ditto - Sun Mar 26 17:16:54 2000

To Sat 25 12:13:58 2000. This has not been the case for us. My BF and I were living together for 3 years before he moved to London. Since he left we have both seen other people for short periods of time (and had things been right with these people the time may have been longer). I don't feel that I am avoiding the reality of a real relationship I think we are dealing with a reality of life and that is respect for each others needs (in his case discovering himself). DB is my soulmate and I really do want an intimate relationship again but only when it is the right time for both of us.
BND - Sun Mar 26 20:52:15 2000

If thats the case BND then tell anyone who tries to tell you otherwise to p*** off. This is another example of how others try to stop you from being with the person you want.
Mon Mar 27 18:08:58 2000

But the person you want to be seems to be an unhappy person. Is this what you want? My point is that there are many many people who one can have a wonderful fulfilling relationship with. The whole "soul mate" number is a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo. Its so narrow and limiting. Surely love is not narrow and limiting.
Mon Mar 27 21:08:19 2000

Being in a LDR, I can tell anonymous that it is anything but something that is done "to avoid the reality of a real relationship." Why be down on people who love each other and only want to love each other? If you had been in a *very* close relationship, I don't think you would say that there are many other people bla di bla - in other words give up on the one you love just because s/he is a long way away. You would know and understand. Yes, some people like to be in something other than a very deep relationship. That's there choice, just as it is my choice to be in a relationship with a soul mate.
I know that my lover and I have been together before, in other times, in other lives, and that may well be the reason why we have grown so close so quickly. Please don't limit your knowledge and your understanding, anonymous. I expect some others will dismiss my beliefs, but I don't know whether they can explain this "coincidence" - why there was a rainbow at the end of the runway, that formed just as the plane was taxiing towards takeoff, this morning. My lover saw the plane I was on fly through the rainbow, after the most wonderful weekend imaginable. Our love is complete.
Free Spirit - Mon Mar 27 22:09:05 2000

No FS its like everything else people crush your dreams no matter if its work, relationships or anything in life. Its all because people can't take difference. If my partner lived in Sydney and I lived in Brisbane and we were happy then thats fine let alone London, LA or Sydney. In some new age books and in fact some "real world" management books one of the principles is keep silent about your goals. Whilst I don't think that is true always (I mean in work we should let others know for networking) but with loving someone absolutely. Don't tell and don't ask, if you get approached at a venue say yeah i'm single but sorry I am not interested. I have seen the Brisbane/Sydney scene boys destroy each other over partnerships out of being jealous. Another posting on one of the other walls tells about in Brisbane a marriage between a 19 and 32 year old couple. I listened in at a venue the other day and the abuse the queens handed out to them by just on the picture was shocking. One joke was "has the 32 yo seen american beauty?" and "filthy old man" but the young brainless ones "oh he's wasting his life with an old old man".
Mike - Tue Mar 28 10:41:11 2000

Whatever.
Wed Mar 29 22:11:25 2000

Others may crush your dreams, but this will only happen if you let them, and for that to happen, in truth you have to go along with their sentiments. If you don't allow yourself to submit to their negativity, if you hang on to and try to live your dreams, believing in them, then of course they can become reality. Be serene and love life.
Free Spirit - Thu Mar 30 20:11:38 2000

Free Spirit - We don't always realise that this is happening until too late. We have to be prepared to move on when things aren't working and can't be made to work. Moving from certainty can be very scary though.
Panther - Fri Mar 31 8:58:55 2000

Agree Panther. Free Sprit I don't dispute your truth but no matter how hard we try sometimes things never work. I believe that if we are in love perhaps its a good idea not to flaunt your partner anywhere because knives come out quickly.
Mike - Fri Mar 31 16:13:23 2000

Panther, yes, I agree that if things aren't working and can't be made to work, then it's time to move on. And also that moving away from a long-term relationship that is comfortable - in that the domestic and legal arrangements are all almost set in stone and would be difficult to change - is scary (if that is what you meant). I had years of living with that fear and doing nothing about it. But what I had in mind was the dream that we all have - or should I say most of us have - of the fairytale love affair, that lasts. These dreams can and are made into reality. And to allow others to spoil those dreams.....surely if both are aware that that can happen and take the steps necessary to avoid it, which means remaining steadfast and confident in feelings towards one another, then all's well.
There's no way that I'm not going to be out and about with my lover. Why should we hide? That's as good as thinking and accepting that our love isn't strong enough.
Friends who try to split lovers up by petty bickering or serious bickering and stirring and doing their damnedest etc., due to their jealousy, which in reality means that they can't handle seeing people very happy when they're not (it's their own fears that are speaking) - maybe they aren't true friends. There really are plenty of good people around.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 31 20:48:28 2000

So that's it, then.
Mon Apr 10 20:12:52 2000

Thu Apr 13 0:12:23 2000

Wher have all the love addicts gone? Long time passing Where have all the love addicts gone? Long time ago Where have all the love addicts gone? To their therapists, every one When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn.
Mon Apr 17 15:18:04 2000

Well we certainly know where the people with Tourette's syndrome are
Tue Apr 18 13:30:41 2000

Jeez new relationships are hard!!
Tue Apr 18 13:34:36 2000

Relationships are easy. You must be making them hard.
Tue Apr 18 16:23:56 2000

I agree with the comment made that "relationships are easy. You must be making them hard." It takes two equally committed persons to make a relationship work. Nobody said it would be the easiest thing in the world to accomplish. Most of you I hear commitments from one person when there's suppose to be two of you equally sharing the same responsibility, faith and trust with & in one another. In a relationship, if only one of you has these qualities and are willing to commit but your partner does not, then you deserve what you get which is a one sided relationship eventually ending in no relationship at all. Yeah, I've heard it before " well, just maybe he'll come around to his senses and we will then live happily ever after". Thats like debating the difference between fact and fantasy. Don't worry I've been there and done that ! Real relationships do work, I should know, I've been in one with the same person for the past 17 years now and I live in Canada to boot!! HOW DOES THAT GRAB YA!
Wed Apr 19 3:58:37 2000

by the balls I guess.
Wed Apr 19 8:41:49 2000

what's canada got to do with anything?
Wed Apr 19 10:58:08 2000

Blame Canada!! Blame Canada!!
nik - Wed Apr 19 11:19:03 2000

Wed Apr 19 3:58:37. Your posting is spot on. This wall is full of whinging people obsessed with people who dont seem to have very deep feelings for them and whenever this is pointed out they dont want to face the truth as this may mean doing some real work on themselves and how they relate to others. its easy to find a soul mate who for some reason or another is "working through stuff" and not able to commit at this time and then wallow in all this self pity.That is not love. It is an avoidance of love.
Wed Apr 19 13:07:17 2000

And it's not a soul mate either.
Wed Apr 19 16:54:33 2000

Love, such a simple word with a powerful meaning....does anyone know the true meaning of it??? probably not....I myself am deeply in love with someone, yet he is now starting to go with someone else, but I still love him more and more....What do you do when you know the person who steals the love of your dreams by telling him he loves him, but uses the word like confetti at a wedding..... My suggestion is for those who have never felt love only lust, wait till you do, then you realise the people on here that some say "complain" about others not loving them will soon realise what it is like..
SB - Wed Apr 19 17:29:31 2000

Love, what is the true meaning of it? I can't say. But when you are in love with someone, you know it. I've been deeply, deeply in love with someone who didn't return the feeling, and it hurt like hell. Letting go is a simple concept to grasp, so very difficult to carry through. But if the other one doesn't return the love, then you just have to let go. There is no alternative, and you're letting your life slip through your fingers if you don't. It's hard, but it has to be done. I learned what for me was a very difficult lesson, that it's allright to love someone and to lose that love - everything would work out right in the end. And it has, wonderfully so.
Free Spirit - Wed Apr 19 19:43:54 2000

What love is not: being obsessed (and mistaking this for love) with someone who does not care or love you.Stop living your lives like some heroine in a tragic B Grade movie and go see a therapist.
Thu Apr 20 12:01:10 2000

Wow - it looks to me like there is 'holier than thou' attitude from many who write on this wall toward those who experience relationship difficulties. I wonder what some of these people call 'hard' in relationships. Working through stuff with a new partner I find hard due to it being draining emotionally, scary, sometimes incompatible needs or desires not being easily accomodated. I am not saying this stuff is not worth doing - of course it has to be for the relationship to grow and become stronger. And I know they generally become easier over time. But to say "Relationships are easy. You must be making them hard." (Tue Apr 18 16:23:56 2000) suggests to me that either this person has had a dream run, or they do not go very deep in the relationship. Even if this is not the case, thanks for your enlightening words of wisdom!!!
Thu Apr 20 15:03:34 2000

Welcome back Free Spirit! I tend to think everyone on this wall is right. Yes it is hard to face the truth that he/she does not love you, yes therapy can be positive, yes it is hard to work though stuff and yes Canada is not to blame but Southpark is. (come on its a fab show!). I think it is harsh one of the postings above in that when I was going through the love thing; people don't want to hear (generally not everyone) if you are love struck and yes I have done that too. But now if I meet someone who is facing this love sickness I listen. I may not always give them my phone number and listen for ages but I do like to give something back to those that supported me while I was working though wanting someone badly. To criticise as whinging seems to indicate you who posted it are fed up with the issue but what if one day you find yourself attracted to someone and they are not to you? You may be stronger but others are not. Panther has recognised that and built this site with this topic and it helped me. Free Spirit it seems to contridict the notion we have choice: you state we must accept the person's lack of love and not let life slip though but those that are feeling this at the moment of course can't always handle it. Funny though this letting go: well I can see in retrospect FS you are correct it does work out. But also if you do let go be prepared that he may come back anyway and if not as a lover than as a friend. That is the most important thing: his friendship. Letting go is simple to grasp but it does for most take time and it is scary facing that he is not the one but then again who said even after facing the "truth" that he isn't in the future or in fact the one in the future is better. I don't know but FS is mostly right though of course this is not a matter of suffering FS; it may be hard but after its over its easier in the future that's what I have found. Maybe we are all taking relationships far too seriously; I know I did. Still if you have sadness talk to people and also Free Spirit I don't think it should be the person's total responsibilty in that the person who doesn't want you must of for some reason attracted you and they have a lesson to learn too. Anyway Free Spirit look forward to more postings from you.
Mike - Thu Apr 20 15:20:21 2000

I disagree that there is a holier than thou attitude towards those that have relationship problems. The objective of my posting was to be precise, short and to the point. In fact I did point out that trying to build or make a relationship, or even beginning a long term relationship was not somthing that was going to be easily accomplished by any means whatsoever. I can safely say and freely admit to everyone that in the beginning of my 17 year relationship, me and my partner almost broke up twice. Once involving interference by someone else and the other incident by both of us not devoting enough time and attention one another. To overcome this we both sat down and gave each other undivided attention, communicating our feelings, needs, and expectations as well as our comittment to change things for the better and enforcing those changes on ourselves for a successful growing relationship. Communication with a partner is not about being a dictator or pointing a finger at him and making demands for whatever reasons they maybe. It's about communicating with the intent of giving respect and concern, conveying to your partner honestly & truthfully your feelings and expectations, your hopes and fears ect.. but most of all letting him know that you deeply care, love and trust him completely. On the other hand you also have to consider & carefully listen and understand what your partner is telling or conveying to you equally. If your looking to have a relationship with someone and want it to be short term or long term or whatever the case maybe, then letting each other know where each of you stand and being fully aware, knowing what to expect saves and softens alot of emotional stress and strife for when things do go wrong. In knowing that, you both have communicated with one another and are fully aware of where each other stands in the relationship, after if your partner strays or whatever happens to go wrong, then you should be confident in knowing that you have said and done all of what you could say or do for the relationship, for yourself, and for your partner. In order to have a relationship where both partners want to spend the rest of their lives with each other, both persons should be equally commited to one another with the same goals in mind for the happiness and success of a relationship. Anything else is a matter of individual choice and preference. No.... there is no holier than thou attitude here only experience through trial and error. Deal with it !
Fri Apr 21 4:36:48 2000

Okey dokey
Fri Apr 21 20:57:02 2000

His love is everlasting
A friend once said please don't cry cos it makes me sad?
That Friend replied I will always cry after the one I love and hope to have!
A friend once said you will find someone one day?
That friend replied I have, but now I must wait!
A friend once said Why did you move here?
That friend replied Obstacle or Distance will not stand in my way, for the one who has caught my heart every day!
A friend once said you can find someone better?
That friend replied I have found who I seek, no more can be said, for my love will always be deep!
A friend once said I may love you one day!
That friend replied A loving light will be burnt for that day or night!
A friend once said You need to move on!
That friend replied Maybe so but I pray you will come along!
That friend again replied No words can describe the feelings I feel inside. My friendship will remain through sunshine and rain. My dreams will burn bright for I know they are right. I will always be there when you are in dispare, but I know what is true my love is eternal for you.
sb - Sat Apr 22 16:59:29 2000

Ahhh, the mystery of love, I don't know if it's my pain killres talking (I recently underwent a rather nasty hernia repair) but I feel as though many of the people who have submitted their views to this wall have missed the bulls eye. I fell head over heels on love in Oct' 99, i managed to hold a long distance relationship (me in Sydney, him in Adelaide) for 3 & 1/2 months. When my man moved to Sydney to live with me, we only lasted 2 weeks. I later found out that he moved here to make it, or break it...oops!. The breakup was rather messy, I died of a broken heart and he fell into the supporting arms of another. But... Due to financial reasons we agreed to split the rent and other expences 50/50, and remain living together untill we managed to get back on our (individual) feet. 2 & 1/2 months after the break up, (madi gras!!!) I broke down at work in front of my colleagues, I then realised that I loved him more than ever. It hit me like a freight train, (not that a passenger train would feel any different, ha ha!) I thought that i had left it too late and that I would never have him again. However, with the help of friends we have begun the rehabilitation of our relationship. I would have to be the luckiest person in the world, not to mention the happiest. We are now inseperable, the trust and love that we share has a power that can be felt in our home by friends that visit. An interesting fact with this story is that neither of us are openly gay. of course we dont deny the fact, yet we both feel that given my occupation (Aust' Army) our homosexuality is still a private matter. What I am trying to portray is that love is much more that an emotion, or a word that you say to an individual to make him/her (delete as necessary!!) feel good. A loving relationship must show faith, trust, flexibility, monogomy, and above all devotion. I have one more thing to add, and that is that there is someone out there for everyone. This person may not be the first one that you meet, in most cases it isn't. But when you do find that someone, Talk, for gods sake talk, even if that's something that you have to write on a piece of paper and stick to the fridge....DO IT. If you don't then the other person wont be able to know if they are doing something that is pissing you off, this creates friction which wears away the foundations of your relationship, this is what happened between me and my man in the first round. Also if you have a arguement or you are pissed at each other, which is bound to happen from time to time!!! (even if it's one sided and the other person is unaware) Do not go to bed angry.... this gives you time to stew on things and they can become blown out and twisted in your mind. Discuss the issue, even if it means that you sit in silence for 3 hours before you can break the ice, believe me it works. I hope that I havent bored you, but i'm sure that if I have then you won't be reading this bit. If you are, thank you, I hope that I have shed some light on things. I have felt the pain of love lost, however I have also felt the joy of regaining that love. It Happens, Good Luck.
MB - Sat Apr 22 21:38:18 2000

Thank god MB someone who sees with wise eyes and dispenses advice with wisdom. As for the poem above its great but please be careful as the gay mafia will jump on you and say you are being: a)neurotic b) unrealistic c) you have no life. All the above don't apply to you and as far as I am concerned (with respect to Free Spirit who tends to be mostly correct) if you fret after what you can't have its your business not theirs. Well done guys above, good advice and let's accept that we are good enough for someone because we are!
Mike - Sun Apr 23 13:12:21 2000

sb, your poem was beautiful.
Jack - Sun Apr 23 17:54:08 2000

Mike, Thanks!!
MB - Sun Apr 23 18:04:46 2000

Thank you Jack, it was written from the heart. Mike it may be neurotic, unrealistic, have I no life, for that I am guilty, but at least I have found something that has meaning in my life even if it is one sided, more than just meaningless meetings and one nighters.....
sb - Sun Apr 23 18:13:07 2000

MB, my partner and I have been together for fifteen wonderful years, and much of your posting reflects our own thoughts/sentiments etc on relationships. Never going to bed angry, is so important. The bed should be a symbol of your unity and love for each other. Another thing I learned, quite early in our relationship was to *never* say anything hurtful in anger. It can never be taken back. Bite your tongue (till it bleeds) if you have to :))
Jack - Sun Apr 23 19:30:30 2000

MB; It is your opinion that a loving relationship must be monogamous. This may be so for you however it feels like you are saying this is a fact for all loving relationships rather than for yours. Are you saying that all relationships that are not monogamous are not loving. If so this is not only a little paternalistic but is simply not true and is a judgement on all loving relationships that do not meet your narrow criteria.
Sun Apr 23 20:34:17 2000

MB, I too must take issue with you :), Why do you feel that "people who have submitted have missed the bulls eye"? Aren't they simply dealing with their emotions in the way they know how, in their time?. You yourself have gone on to explain that you broke down at work and etc. What may have been your feelings, when you were going through your worst heartache, had you submitted them to this wall?.(confusion?, pain?) Is it not the benefit of time and (and naturally,the love and devotion for your man) that has enabled you to reach the place you are now at? What makes your experience more 'valid' than anyone elses? . It's great that you are both happy now. I agree with what the above postee has said about the monogamy/loving relationship issue, There are all kinds of loving relatioships, including three parties. It isn't up to any of us to draw up a plan.(do what feels right for you) Monogamy is certainly one option :). Sadly tho' there is also evidence to suggest that there *isn't* someone for everyone. But that is too depressing to contemplate.
Sun Apr 23 22:51:41 2000

To all those people that really know what it's like to have Unrequited Love. I was in love with a much younger guy (hmm, was that wise?) for over two years. Desperately, completely. Oblivious to all his faults. He simultaneously liked and was annoyed by my attentions. To cut a long story short (insert "cry me a river" here) I finally got over him. We are friends now and I have allowed myself to be happy. My, my, how you see the faults once the clouds of passion have cleared! Apart from the odd twinge which I suspect will never go away we are just mates. It is possible to get over it, though there were times I never thought it was possible. Wishing you all the luck in the world. One note of caution though, what you think you want and what you actually need are rarely the same :)
happynow - Mon Apr 24 11:59:14 2000

To thoes who conveniently forgot to sign their submission when they responded to mine. (dated sat Apr 22nd)....You are obviously to insecure to see that there are people out there, like myself, that submit messages to these walls as advice only. I have no idea where the first responce (dated Apr 23 @ 20:34:17) gained the thought that I was narrow minded or that I was suggesting that my opinions should be law and that every one has to follow them. I was, however, trying to show that even though I had lost everything, (loving that is), I was lucky to get it back. I am aware of how close I had come to loosing the most remarkable man I have ever had the pleasure of knowing, (If that then shuts my eyes to the rest of society, then that's a small price to pay as far as I am concearned) I then gave some tips as to how I keep MY relationship alive. If you feel as though you are able to root around on your boyfriend, then by all means 'do' as many people as you like, It will make no difference to me, subsequently I don't give a flying fat rat's crack about what you do behind your boyfriends back. You will be the only one to blame for the hurt that you cause youself and your partner if the news should cross your partners ears. However, before you start clacking away as you type the responce to this (that I think will be rather amusing) ....... If you and your partner are doing this together, or he at least know's about your activities, and he has no worries about that, then I that is fine. Don't, however, assume that I do not know how to keep a relationship alive, as you can gather from other submissions in regards to mine that there are some that appreciated my views. They didn't rip into me accusing me of narrow mindedness. Get over it!!! How does that grab you Mr anonymous!!!
MB - Mon Apr 24 16:42:01 2000

Sb no way its fine a great poem. Its amazing that the films that are coming out at the moment (American Beauty, Me Myself I) all have these themes of how to love the self. Your poem is amazing just don't let others attack it. Happynow great posting too. I think loving or accepting others "faults" is good too. When the clouds do disperse you do see more clealy. Anyway sb my point is your poem is great post another one if you can. Thanks.
Mike - Mon Apr 24 17:57:02 2000

MB: what a strange response. If you would reflect on your posting you stated " a loving relationship must show trust, flexibility monogomy......." I find this narrow. Whats this "rooting around on your boyfriend" stuff, also "when the news crosses your partners ears" and "behind your boyfriends back". Well my relationship does include most of your little recipe, but not monogamy.It includes honesty as all my relationships do.I never questioned the fact that you are able to keep your relationship alive. I questioned your statement about monogamy.You were the one who immediately reacted with what seemed to come across as anger. maybe next time you could stick to your relationship rather than telling us what a loving relationship must have or be.What possible difference does leaving a signature make other than giving someone like you a more direct target to aim your bile at?
Mon Apr 24 20:21:18 2000

Oh dear, monogamy versus polygamy, isolation versus socialisation, love versus hate, therapy versus naivity and self doubt, self discovery versus closeting etc etc. If it works for you and you are happy with it then fine. Be what you are. Love if you want to experience that, hate if you must. Be who you are. That's what individiuality is all about. Just don't expect others to be dragged into your self expressionalism and ideals and remember we are all different and that's what makes us all so interesting and wonderful people. Regardless of our ideals.
I am what I am and stuff you if you don't like that. - Mon Apr 24 22:53:40 2000

Genie full of wishes A genie appeared before me one day Three wishes I will grant thee so take it away With thought in his mind only one thing was clear I wish the one I love would love me as near Now that was one, only two to go Choose your wishes wisely for they will all go With thought in his mind only one thing was clear I wish the one I love would love me as near Now that was two, only one to go Choose your last wish wisely for they now will all go With thought in his mind only one thing was clear His love for me may never appear, so give my last wish to the one that is so dear,. As a gift from my heart grant him that wish, for his dreams are his life that must not be missed. Let it be known that I want him here, for I care too much to let him not be near Now that was all three no more to go Your last wish was granted and mow I must go With thought in the mind only one thing was clear I hope my love that I care for so dear, will find his wish bring him happiness and cheer For that is all I pray to be, in his arms held close without fear If I could grant a fourth I would for thee As your love for him over powers even me…I wish you well in your dreams As love is the greatest power in thee.
sb - Mon Apr 24 23:43:08 2000

Mike Thanks for your kind words!
Mon Apr 24 20:21:18 2000 It is much more difficult to reply and be understood to reply in response to someone in particular if there is no name or acronym. I don't think that MB was being bilious. He was arguing his opinion forcefully, but there was no aggression towards anyone else. If you re-read his and then your submissions in the cold light of day, then I think you will see who was being bilious.
I know it's each to their own, but in my opinion, I feel that to sleep with someone outside of the relationship is to give to that someone else. I wouldn't want to do that to my partner, as I love him far too much. I would never risk hurting him in any way, so I would never stray. If you f**k with someone else because of their muscles or some other physical attribute, then what does that say about your view of your partner? And worse, what if it's for a mental or - worse still - emotional reason? If I did that, I may as well leave my partner right now, as in my heart I would have done so already. I think that if you f**k with someone else and then chat about it with your partner as if you've merely caught a different bus, then that would be rather like living with the closest of a group of friends. But that's my opinion! :-)
Free Spirit - Mon Apr 24 23:43:10 2000

Thanks Mike, I hope you didnt take my post as a direct attack it was not meant that way, but now I read it it seems like it...please find the other poem I came up with...these are feelings I am feeling right now and emotions I have to deal with...I am in limbo at the moment and decision to move on from the one that has my heart is the hardest thing, as some might agree...Free spirit I agree, the physical is not what makes a happy relationship, it is what comes from the heart that is worth everything. Even though my current "Best friend" is seeing someone else whilst he is aware of how deeply I feel for him, I still love him and could not think of hurting him in anyway verbally or emotionally, and will always be there for him...to those who think they know what love is, how do you feel in the heart when you say you love the person....
sb - Mon Apr 24 23:52:18 2000

No sb not at all I apologise if anything posted seems like an attack. Most forms of Internet bodiless communication can seem like attacks or bitching but the intention is not always the case. My point sb was just that I am at this strange level were for about 14 years I went after the so called "guys I could not have". Your poems are a way of expressing things and they are great lyrically and I am glad no one has attacked you for them. I just believe myself that the process of falling in love with mr wrong or going after someone that does not want you seems to result in a level of self-punishment which when combined with disclosure to inappropriate people (ie your friends and family especially other gay men) results in an almost intangible but very real force where everyone and circumstances seem not only to seperate you from who you want but also seek to punish you for feelings. Feeling anything for anyone is natural and it is going to happen again but if the other person does not want you then why punish the self. My only "advice" to anyone undergoing this unrequited stuff is to be selective in who you tell. When I went though this ten years ago with Robert quite a few found out and it climaxed with at a party being told to stay away from "him" or else. With my last guy, the difference of course is he and I are friends, the same thing happened only different people. Free Spirit puts credibilty to the repeat lessons treadmill doesn't it :))). I have come to see faults in the person I love and that's healthy, I have not had an urge to ring him all the time and whilst I won't exactly be jumping for joy if he decides to live in England for 3 years I am happy if he gets the contract. Sb my dealing with this was posting to this wall and many replied with their own experiences which helped greatly. Please if you want continue to post because again the universial nature of the experience is a key to getting past this very real hurdle. Crys of "get over it" are cliches that don't work. Finally I have to agree with quite a bit of the I'm Am What I am" posting. Sb again please don't take anything as cyber attack it is fine what you post and if anyone, like they did to me, says "get over it" et al then perhaps they are going though or did go though the same thing and are touchy about it. Thanks again all.
Mike - Tue Apr 25 9:13:51 2000

What is all this talk of Anonymous??? I don't get it
krncd567 - Tue Apr 25 13:41:22 2000

Annon- and to anyone else who is not in a monogamous relationship-i am not knocking it nor judging but rather curious about a few things - what is it that makes you feel like being with another person sexually ?? And while your with this other person, even though your boyfriend might know do you have certain rules of just how far you can go?? How do you feel when your doing it?? Is there any emotion attached to the deed or is it pure sex and nothing else? And if this is the case, how do you find it so easy to just switch off - F!@#* - and then go back to your loved one like nothing has happened?? The only reason I ask is because my partner wants to experience a sexual encounter with another partner and says it will only be a one off-but i'm afraid that if we do it once i may not be able to cope with the repercussions if he wants to do it again. I am in in love with everything about this person, i don't feel the need to look outside of our relationship for sex, we have an adventourous sex life as it is and a healthy one at that. Although we have talked about it at lengths i still don't understand exactly what it is that i can't give him that he is going to find from a complete stranger. Please give me some advice
Dean - Tue Apr 25 19:45:11 2000

I met this guy about 4 weeks ago that just makes me smile and feel great. I've never had a proper relationship with another guy mainly due to the fact that I haven't come across a decent, genuine guy that I have wanted a proper relationship with. Now I finally have met this guy that seems just perfect. However with every story there is a 'but' and the 'but' is, he has a boyfriend. I could never do anything to interfere with his current relationship but I have such strong feelings for him and I know he has some feelings for me too. It's not like we have done anything so it's not just a physical attraction. I've made it clear that nothing can happen while he is in a relationship and that he has to concentrate on that at the moment. He asks me if I am okay with that and I tell him I am... but I'm not. I am so knotted up inside and think about him all the time! I'm just so confused and don't know what to do about it.
Pete - Tue Apr 25 20:01:16 2000

Hi Dean, maybe I can share with you some facets of our open relationship. It didn't start that way of course, it was totally monogamous. In the beginning we only desired each other, in fact, for three years we were completely monogamous, and had built up our trust and love for each other. The change to an open relationship was very gradual for us, first talking about it, then, experimenting with fantasies of a third whilst we made love etc, till the day arrived when it was all systems go:). It was such a turn-on to see my lover with someone right there in front of me, (as well as feeling a twinge of jealousy). We talked about our feelings endlessly for days afterwards, I learned that he too felt a little anxious, but the overriding fact for both of us, was the excitement and the adrenaline rush. We decided that we would make it a part of our sex life . We feel it has strenghened our relationship in ways we couldn't have imagined, and quite the opposite to the way *some* people view open rel's( as no more than flatmates who f**k) we are still deeply in love and committed to each other. I hope this may have been of some help to you.
M & F - Tue Apr 25 22:30:49 2000

Dean, after reading back my posting, it may convey the impression that we only have threesomes (big deal), but that was only in the beginning. Gradually after working through our fears etc, (a lot of talking) and feeling totally secure, we were able to feel at ease with others sexually, without any guilt/jealousy. To be able to accept that my man desires other men and sometimes acts on those desires (the way I do) is now a completely natural and fullfilling part of our relationship. Again, I hope this helps you. Good luck
M & F - Tue Apr 25 23:01:39 2000

M & F make good sense but what seems to be missing with couples is the effect they have on the one's they go out with or have sex with. Dean if you don't want an open relationship don't do it, say no. Its all good and well not to interfere with the development of your partner but if it brings you misery ask is it worth it? M & F are fine in their views but what if the person you go out with tells you on date number 3 "oh by the way I have a partner." What is worse is the degradation of being told "he" comes first and when you are alone on Saturday night wanting their company they are "too busy" usually at the Sauna using more people. Having said that if you are overjoyed at the prospect of screwing more than your beloved then fine. John and John in Brisbane have been together for 25 years and they shag others by the bucketful. I guess it comes down to this: I want monogamy but I respect couples and others to have an open relationship. But Dean if you are annoyed or upset when he comes home the next day because you were alone that night tell him immediatly. It took me a long time to come to terms with open relationships and it seems that when I get a new partner it is going to have to be this way as gay men want it all without responsiblity. Still that is not to say open relationships don't work because to be morally heavy handed either way (anti or pro) seems pointless. But Dean if he does it and you don't like it talk immediatly and think of the person he leaves behind. What if that person falls in love with your partner? What if he goes into stalking mode? I have seen it and experienced it and all I am saying is think twice its not always that simple.
Mike - Wed Apr 26 9:44:33 2000

Mike, what if, what if,.... what if I was killed tomorrow in a car crash, or maybe what if I got cancer, or multiple sclerosis, or maybe what if, what if.............
Wed Apr 26 13:27:35 2000

Mike, with all due respect, you sound like a harbinger of doom. :) Earlier you were telling someone their poem was great *but* the gay mafia would say such and such. What gay mafia??, you were the one who said it all. Now you're going on about 'date no:3'- as if open relationships are about dating!?. They're about *no-strings attatched, mutual sexual gratification*. Many people advertise for just this kind of thing. There are no innocent *victims*. You are absolutely right though, about saying *no* to something you feel uncomfortable doing, or going along with, but that has more to do with communication with your partner than open relationships, or bestiality, or whatever the heck turns you on. Another thing is this question: What if he falls in love with your partner? (or vice-versa). Let me ask you something: Do you think a monogamous rel automatically protects you from the same thing? Of course it doesn't, right?. But we deal with things as they happen, and we all take *responsibility* for our own actions. I've discovered supposed monogamous relationships to be nothing more than a veneer, with both parties doing beats, saunas, etc and never talking about it. Now, if I was husband hunting, and I met some guy I fancied, I would ask him if he was single etc without sounding like I've already bought the wedding dress :). If he told me that he was in an open relationship, I wouldn't make any plans to see him again. What's difficult about that?. M & F sound like they have their act together, and are doing what's best for them. If I were Dean, I guess I'd tell my man how uncomfortable I was with the idea, and maybe ask him to hold off till I got my head around the idea. But the fact that Dean's partner is being honest with him, says to me that they have a strong relationship. OK I'll quit yammering now. Mike , I take back what I said about you :). It was the unresolved angst talking.
Malook Hubcap - Wed Apr 26 15:41:44 2000

You guys, go back and read Dean and Pete's postings carefully. I think he's (the same person) having you on :)
Crystal Balls - Wed Apr 26 18:58:53 2000

Thanks M&F for your advice, and Mike aswell - i'm still not 100% about it. As i said, I don't feel the need to look outside of our relationship for sex, and yes, I understand a relationship is a two way thing & just because I feel this way doesn't mean he will too, but I can't help but think that it would be the start of a breakdown in other areas of what we have if I agree for us to involve others into our love making. Call me old fashion. Sometimes though, don't you think that some people are just never quite happy enough with what they have?? That they are always constantly looking for more or better?? Why is it so hard to just enjoy, love and grow within the relationship without outside influences?? Females don't have this premiscuity problem so why gay men ?? Is it because we think with our dicks and our dicks only?? Your lucky M&F that things have worked for you both. I hope things do for me. And no..i'm not Pete too.
Dean - Wed Apr 26 19:08:57 2000

That's cool Malook everyone's entitled to their own view. Dean I don't think you are old fashioned at all. Again its if guys are in relationships and what extra partners that's ok for them but not for me. If you really want monogamy that's ok; if you change your mind in years to come that's ok too. As much as I dispise Savage Garden their song Affirmation boasts "i believe trust is more important than monogamy." Maybe they are right.
Mike - Wed Apr 26 19:51:50 2000

Dean: you are old fashioned but there is nothing wrong with that. Sorry to tell you that girls do have these sorts of problems in their relationships as well.
Thu Apr 27 11:17:02 2000

Dean, everything changes, nothing stays the same. You must believe that. It is tough to accept, but you must for your own emotional growth. Trust (and love of course) will build the strongest foundations in a relationship, whether you choose monogamy/polygamy or anything else. It sounds like you have a great deal of soul-searching to do, because what I'm hearing is: not just that you're not ready for this, but you are opposed to the very idea of a non-monogamous state (for yourself). This is bound to cause tension and a rift between you, if neither one is willing to compromise. I was lucky, in that my partner and I shared similar ideologies to begin with. Only you can make the decision, and yes it will change things, and I can empathise with you, for the fear that holds for you . But my advice would still be to say no to something you are ideologically opposed to, unless of course you change your stance :) You must always be true to yourself Dean.
M & F - Thu Apr 27 17:09:34 2000

Advice please. I can't let go of my best friend who I love. He is very restless and wants to move to Sydney. I don't I lived there once and I don't want to go back. But what I am having trouble dealing with is part of me is devastated and sad but another part of me is very very happy and wants him to go. I know its his decision either way but I need to get over the fact that our friendship is, not over so much, but it has changed. I accept his going but the pain is sometimes great yet at the same time I am relieved that he may go. I don't understand can you be happy and sad at the same time because that's how I feel. I just want to move past this but I can't.
Spilt Feelings - Sat Apr 29 13:36:46 2000

Spilt feelings, welcome to my part of the world, I am living with a best friend and I love him very much, however he is seeing another guy which I feel is only after one thing, as from what has been told to me, and the things he has done....however I also feel what you are feeling, happiness for him, as well as deep sadness not in the way of not being able to have him myself but in the way his love he shows others ends up being wasted because he ends up being hurt....so someone else is feeling what you are at this moment, I wish I could move on past this as well, and I am not going to say it will get easier, it may but in the moment it hurts....
Sat Apr 29 16:15:20 2000

Spilt Feelings - It sounds as if you are working through these feelings yourself. You are accepting the new situation, but you are grieving for the relationship you had, even if it was only in your imagination. Talking about it is the best way to work through the grief. If that isn't enough then a counsellor may be able to help.
Panther - Mon May 1 8:55:30 2000

Not Love

Your kiss

like death

upon glazen breath

Wind dry thy eyes

from her lasting quip...

Broken all of me

that she did touch

My heart not hers

nor hers be mine

oh curse of love

wind dry thine eyes...

Heavy...

sinking...

hollow

My heart beat not

dark depths I wallow

Is she to you

what she was to me

if that she is

forever...she be.
tish - Fri May 5 20:37:25 2000

woh! that was a bit long sorry, does ayone Know how to paragraph properly??
tish - Fri May 5 20:39:38 2000

Something most special is the ability to face the realisation that, despite all attempts, your relationship, as lovers, is over. The extra special bonus is if you can quickly and painlessly covert that into a very special friendship. After all, the two of you have spent much time together and become very close as soul mates. Perhaps you may need a dear mutual friend to 'supervise' the discussion to reach this point. As much as it hurts like hell, this is the most rewarding end result of a break-up. Your former partner will always be thre for you as a special friend who knows more about you than most people. Try it. It beats the vitriole and viciousness so characteristic of gay and lesbian "divorces". Good luck.
Tue May 9 21:27:11 2000

it does work - and we didn't even need a dear mutual friend to mediate...we got there by being two rational adults.
MsGuided - Wed May 10 8:35:45 2000

We all talk of 5 common words "deal with it, move on" but how hard do these 5 words hit everyone..... 10 years ago yesterday, someone that is loved so very much died of cystic fibrosis, "deal with it, move on" three weeks tommorrow 5 years ago, yet again someone that is loved so very much died of an accident "deal with it, move on" June 2 years ago someone loved ends up leaving no thanks "deal with it, move on" Someone loved now and will always be the strongest love ever, and the love that keeps growing, even though he is seeing another guy, "deal with it, move on".....how many times can one person "deal with it, move on" how many times can one suffer and be upset of the thought having to go through the same thing over and over again.....will there ever be an end to the "deal with it, move on" syndrome.....
me - Wed May 10 21:49:32 2000

Me - The long term choices are "deal with it, move on" or to get stuck in the grief. Dealing with it doesn't mean forgetting about the person, it means remembering them but being able to carry on living and even being happy. No one should have to deal with it on their own, that's what friends are for. If you aren't dealing with it well then maybe you should seek professional help. Depression is a common disease these days.
Panther - Thu May 11 9:19:48 2000

Yes but the term get over it and move on are such cliches that don't work with everyone. But the important thing is letting go and moving on is not about getting rid of a person, place, thing or thought. To me it is just going ok this happened grant some serenity and think about other things. If its hard take Panther's advice but don't feel guilt if you can't move on. Some take years and this society is obsessed to an extent with newness in the form of someone or something. It all takes time for some.
A Person - Fri May 12 15:03:32 2000

i love blackbear xxxxxx
brownbear:) - Sat May 13 0:48:51 2000

I love you lala with all my heart xxoxoxoxo
Sat May 13 1:56:18 2000

Hello. Here is a sad story for you all...I have never had a girlfriend (yes, i am gay!)....and have been out for over 5 years....but no one has been interested enough to want to have a relationship with me! :( I have had more rejections than i have had hot dinners...and my heart is now starting to break into iddy biddy pieces!! :( ....I have posted personals everywhere, but no luck yet! Where are all the lesbians who are non smokers, non druggies, love cats not dogs and dont only want one night stands????? I hope i meet someone b4 i turn 50! Well, that is my story of UN-love!!! Thanx for letting me share!! Have a nice day! xxx
BrokenHearted :( - Sat May 13 23:59:24 2000

Broken Hearted, get over it girl, why do you need someone in your life so badly? You just sound very lonely and this can seem rather desperate. Maybe you need to make some new friends and learn to have fun with them (and your self) stop hunting, when it is meant to happen it will happen. That is what happens!!! Live your life and when the timer is right someone will come along. Stop focussing being single as a bad thing and relish it, your happiness will attract people, sadness and needyness will just deflect them.
telling it how it is - Mon May 15 18:03:49 2000

Broken Hearted, what _telling it how it is_ was trying to say is that you have to love yourself before you can be loved. From the little you wrote, you sound like a nice person, but even the sweetest people can be low on self-esteem. Once you've conquered that problem, it'll all be fine. Believe me! Let life take its course, go with the flow, take every day as it comes, and all that. When the time is right, then it'll happen for you. It will.
Free Spirit - Mon May 15 19:17:47 2000

Broken Hearted - One reason you are single might be you are expecting the wrong things from a relationship and those expectations are scaring others away. Life isn't a romance novel. Relationships are difficult and you need to constantly work at them. Try reading about some successful *real* relationships. Or even discussing your expectations with some friends or a counsellor.
Panther - Mon May 15 20:38:50 2000

To: Tell It Like It Is and Free Spirit. Thank you so much for that piece of advice! I do love myself (no, not up myself :) ), and have friends to confide in. They have basically said the same thing. Its just that this waiting is sooo haaard!! I am happy being single...i guess i just would love someone else to share life with me! But yes, i will try and stop looking and see what happens. I will take one day at a time! :) Thank u both so much! xxxxxx To Panther: I have read about *real* relationships hun, thats why i guess i want one so much...just to be involved with someone is enough for me! :) I know that a relationship takes hard work and life is not just a big romantic story...i just would like *one* woman to not say to me: "sorry babe but you are just not attractive, see ya!"...or: "maybe if you lost weight i would date you"..instead, i would love to hear...just once..."hello. wanna dance/go out?"..(sigh) i dont know...maybe i *am* expecting too much eh?? Oh well! Lifes a bitch...then you die. But thanx again! xxx :) :)
BrokenHearted - Wed May 17 1:41:19 2000

Yeah Life is a bitch...but you don't die - you just slap it and move along!!
Bitchslap life - Wed May 17 16:42:32 2000

BrokenHearted - I hope I didn't upset you with my wrong guess about your situation. How about trying other ways of meeting people. You mentioned you have used the personals. How abpout trying social groups, sporting groups, special interest groups, networking with friends and acquaintances, volunteering, or even the scene.
Panther - Wed May 17 18:50:59 2000

Maybe I'll lose weight and I'll date you? Anyone who says that should be strung up. Sydney people are so body image fascist typical of them to say something like that.
Thu May 18 8:32:11 2000

Broken Hearted, any one who has said that you need to look a different way to date you, would never have made you happy any way, Panther is right, join a club doing something you like, and meet others with similar interests. ie maybe you want to learn how to speak another language? Or Learn to cook? The people in your class will need some where to practice thier home work....
Telling it how it is! - Thu May 18 17:30:25 2000

Hi Panther...no you didnt upset me...like i said, it had all been said to me before! Yes, i have joined a few social groups and am very part of the scene (although there arent many lesbian clubs to go to are there??)...but, where do you think those comments came from??? Yup! The groups (which, i might add are Very Very cliquey!!)and the scene! (sigh!) I just cant win! To Tell It Like It Is:: Yes i agree, they would not have made me happy...i know that now! And funny you should say that about cooking....guess what i almost did the other day?? Yup! Almost burned the house down with my very very failed attempt at so-called cooking...:) .....oh well, at least the cockies got roasted!! :) PS:: If there are any cute lesbians under 35 here who are looking for a g/f...please contact me via this page ok?? Thanx to you all for your wonderful words!! xxxxxxxxxxxxx (some daaay my princess will come..la la la la la la la la la la laaa....:))xxxxxxxxxxxx
BrokenHearted - Sat May 20 0:48:53 2000

Broken hearted: you moan cause no one wnats you yet the only attribute you mention in your request for a g/f is thats she is cute. It makes me wonder!
Sun May 21 14:59:45 2000

Anonymous, probably the reasons that Broken Hearted only mentioned the word 'cute' are (a) this is not a personals area, and (b) her 'personal' was tongue in cheek.

Before I met my partner, if I was at Ken's, say, and tired of wandering round and round, as one does, I used to sit down and instead of just giving the eye to everyone passing by, do some creative visualisation - that a hunk would be making love to me. It usually worked, amazing though it may seem, although of course it didn't happen the next minute. Patience always helps.
I didn't try something like that when I was in the state of not being in a relationship but wanting one, but there's nothing to say it wouldn't have a good effect (I'm sure it would.) Broken Hearted, visualise being in a loving, caring relationship, and feel happy that this *will* come to you, at the right time. Thoughts *do* create reality.
Free Spirit - Sun May 21 21:15:32 2000

Dream on.
Mon May 22 14:00:44 2000

I recently met this wonderful guy who I am quickly falling in love with. I really enjoy his company and spending time with him. I don't know why, but I keep feeling paranoid that he doesn't feel the same way and I sometimes take things he says the wrong way. I know he cares alot about me but for whatever reason, I start feeling down when I'm away from him and begin to think too much!! He really is the first person I have ever felt so strongly about and I am wondering if it is normal to get so continuously worried about things.
Ben - Mon May 22 19:37:19 2000

Two people together, whether they are in love or otherwise, are always two individuals. That is, neither should be dependent upon the other. Leaning, depending on the other for emotional support can (and is likely to be) the end of a good relationship.
It's said that the best relationships are those where neither party has any expectations about the future. That doesn't mean that you don't make plans or whatever, you just don't expect, to the exclusion of all else, things to be this way or that way. You just love and you just understand.
But the most important person to love is always yourself. That doesn't mean acting selfishly, it just means that you hold yourself in high esteem. Hopefully, one of the prime reasons for this will be because you love.
Free Spirit - Mon May 22 20:19:15 2000

Hi Free Spirit...and thank you so much for those lovely words! Yes i do indeed visualise...a lot...so much so that i seem to be walking into poles these days! :) Oh and by the way...you were right....it was (b)!!xxxxxxkissesxxxxxxxxx Anon....stop taking things so seriously!! When i say cute, im basically saying ANY lesbian!! Because to me, all women are cute!! And guess what??? A woman actually came up and said Hi to me today!! Yaaaay!! Now i think i'm on cloud 9!! (i reckon that some more hellos and i should just about be able to rope someone in, eh?) PS: Free Spirit, you sound like a very soulful, special person...i really wish i could meet you! Ciao for now!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
BrokenHearted - Tue May 23 1:11:11 2000

Again Free S I don't totally agree with everything but that thing about visualising at the Sauna. Yep it has worked a couple of times that for sure. To Ben it is an art not to take things the wrong way with the actions and words of the person we love. Just keep practicing when he does say this or do this that you say to yourself I am ok. It helped me greatly. Perhaps FS could enlighten a bit more on that.
Discourse - Tue May 23 22:02:42 2000

{blushes} Thanks for your kind words, NotBrokenHearted and Discourse!
The best kind of love is unconditional love, which is just what it says - it's unconditional. People who love in that way can be put upon, it's true, but if that happens, then maybe the whole situation needs to be re-examined. If *both* love unconditionally, then *wow!* If you love unconditionally, then you accept the other's foibles and...well, everything, basically. You might prefer something to be another way, but that's not really important, and it can't be essential.

But...if you feel that your love isn't being returned, then it's best to talk to the other one about that. And if it isn't and won't be, then try to accept that that's the best thing for both. It really is. Something better *will* come up.
innerpeace@one.net.au
Free Spirit - Wed May 24 20:38:54 2000

Hi FreeSpirit! Yes, exactly! i was interested in this girl once who i thought loved me....but, after a while of "dont hold my hand, dont hold me, dont stand too close(someone might see us), dont look at me like that....but i love you and want you", i couldnt take it anymore!! I was prepared to love her *unconditionally*, but realised that although she wanted me for herself, *those* were her conditions!!! So i told her...forget it!! Love is being happy when we touch, hold hands, walk together and everything like that, but she wanted me *without* those things...so i told her im not for her... :( I mean, how can you love someone who doesnt even want you to touch her??? Weird.
BrokenHearted(still) - Thu May 25 0:14:54 2000

FS have you heard of a book by Florence Shovel Shinn? Brillant, especially the bit about overcoming the laws of karma.
Thu May 25 15:19:31 2000

Yes, I've read it (I think you mean "The Writings of Florence Scovel Shinn." - no shovels!) and I agree - it's brilliant. Very easily read, very practical, very positive, very fresh. In case anyone here thinks that this is off topic, a lot of the book is about people who have problems with love.

BrokenHearted no longer, Yes. Er...if you keep on considering yourself to be BrokenHearted, that's the way you're likely to stay?
Free Spirit - Thu May 25 23:55:00 2000

That's my whole point she was a believer in the law of karma being overcome and I believe that this is possible. Take all the debates over love on this wall especially the falling in love with the one that does not want you. We put too much emphasis on them, the so called god figures that we believe we will be incomplete if they don't love us. Yes a counter arguement is he/she is at the sauna or nightclub with another and you are in bed alone on Saturday night. Well yes but we need to constantly re-enforce that we are ok. Personally if someone doesn't want you "They" are not worthy of you.
Discourse - Fri May 26 9:12:02 2000

Love sucks.
Fri May 26 15:22:08 2000

I know this doesnt have anything to do with love, but would anyone of you gorgeous ladies like to make a new and very loyal friend?? I am really looking for a girlfriend, but i am looking for friends too! Basically, ive been going out by myself, come home by myself (after being rejected) and crying into my pillow. What i really need is someone to go places with, like nightclubs, movies, anything like that, and having a friend to do these with with would be absolutely great!! So anyway, if you would love to meet up and go out on the town then let me know ok?? Thanx! xxxxx. Bye for now!
YourFriendForLife :) - Sat May 27 1:15:28 2000

Dear Friend for Life. Before you make such promises think about this. Many people (including teenages and children) make such statements then don't follow through. Being a friend means you call them regularly not just one date and that's it. How many on these walls have had the "new friend" only to find 3 or 4 weeks later no call and the usual lie "i have been busy". Busy in a sauna bath more like it. Friendship takes committment not just nights out on the town and laugh and then "who was that". And you never say "oh I feel so guilty for not calling" because the reality is they don't. Get real, friendship is very very valuable: so above don't use anyone because you will regret it eventually.
Sat May 27 13:05:54 2000

One things for sure friends are beyond valuable.
Marilyn Hanson - Sat May 27 18:33:28 2000

Thats right Anon! I wholeheartedly agree with you! And I am that very person...one who is very loyal and very much worth being called a friend!! I have met women in my time who tell me "yes i am interested in being your friend" only to *never* again hear from them after one night on the tiles! I call them only to be told "oh, well i just havent gotten around to you again yet!" whats that supposed to mean??? I believe that a friend is someone you call either every day or at least once a week, and invite each other out on weekends...be it a movie, concert, clubbing..whatever, and to share lots of laughs and tears with! I have a 'friend' that i only seem to speak to on the phone, but whenever it comes to going out anywhere, she has invited *all* her other friends..But Me!!! And i have *never* been invited to her place!! So, dont judge me b4 you have gotten to know me first!! I am the one who will call every day or week and invite you out to anything you want to do! Like i said, I am very loyal...maybe you should check me out first ok??? You may be pleasantly surprised!! :)
YourFriendForLife :) - Sun May 28 1:07:44 2000

Dear friend for life, maybe you are placing more wieght of the concept of 'friendship'than other people andas a result they begin to feel trapped by you and therefore stop ringing. Icertainly don't ring my friends daily and ifind th true test of friendship is one where you may not see the person for days or weeks or moths yet still be able to have the same rapport with them when you do get to see them. Are you diving in 'boots and all' straight away when you meet a new friend and expecting them to call you daily and spend every weekend with them? If so, it's probably scaring them off. It would haveto be a very close frienship to be on those terms and not really something you could expect to find straight off.I see my mates very week or two and that's fine, granted, we all have partners and that makes the ball game a bit diferent, butmy advice is to try and relax a little and not become too possessive of your new friends.
nik - Sun May 28 13:09:13 2000

scuse all the typos..doh!
nik - Sun May 28 13:10:25 2000

LOL welcome back Nik! How's the Love Yourself or Else book reading going. Opps I hope Free Spirit is on holidays :)). To the friend person I apologise if the posting was bit rich on the view. I am sure you are a great person and if I lived in your city I would love to meet you. Nik I agree with you on the friend thing, although there is nothing wrong with ringing everyday if both want it. The main point here is sure Friend you may be a bit pushy and they run but if they do the so called "friend" has the problem. Its all part of the dual nature of people: we want someone running after us but at the same time we bolt. So Friend don't worry get a couple of friends and share the load with them, by that I mean ring them once a week and arrange for a day out. If one is not there the other one or ones may be. I wish you lots of love, friendship and success in your relationships. As for you Nik I am sending you a copy of "How to Take Out New Age Gurus: a guide what is your fault (which is new age speak for everything)" Sorry Free S just joking :))) love all.
Sun May 28 16:20:47 2000

How do you save a fly from a spider without the fly ending up hating u...sound weird well lets say someone u love so very much is attracted to the spider and not u, but u know things and seen things that the spider has done and is doing and u know in your heart that the spider is only using your loved one for its own gratification, and using persuasive and underhanded tactics on the fly to reach its goal when the fly is not ready to go all the way...how does one prevent the fly from being hurt without ending up being hated because the fly thinks u are wanting him and just jelous....
In turmoil - Sun May 28 23:27:03 2000

Thanks Anon and Nik. But like i said, i would just be happy with *one* person being my friend. No i am not pushy, as i dont get to meet anyone again after just that once!! I wouldnt mind the occasional call (once a week or once a month, i dont care!) just so long as i *Get One*!! All i'm after is someone to go out with and have fun...To make a friend you have to Be a friend....well i'm here waiting to Be that friend if only someone would give me a chance. *Remember:* I cant be possessive over something i *dont* have yet!! But thanx for the advice. :)
FriendForLife - Mon May 29 0:43:13 2000

In Turmoil:you are a control freak. Let Go.
Mon May 29 18:12:40 2000

Don't oversimplify things it takes effort to Let go, get over it, move on blah blah blah. Its overated. In Turmoil talk to someone on a gay help line to get perspective. Always watch who you tell things to as like last night I let slip the guy I like is going away and one of my friends came down on me like a ton of bricks. Sure they are his issues but I let it get to me. To the Friend person again best of luck, the secret is get his or her phone number wait about a week and show an interest in their life and activities (but of course not only at your expense). Good luck, friends are frustrating but worth it.:)
Mon May 29 18:42:48 2000

In turmoil... as you're witnessing, attraction can over-rule what should be self-evident. Everyone has to learn lessons in life. As you realise, you can't say too much, as otherwise, you could easily to drive the fly further into the web. You can probably hint at what you're getting at to the fly and you can make it clear that you're there. Remember, though, that the fly you're talking about is human and will live to see another day. Everyone has to learn lessons in life. If you love someone, set them free...

Sun May 28 16:20:47 2000 Trés amusent! :-)
Free Spirit - Mon May 29 21:37:10 2000

Setting someone free is the ultimate act of love. It may sound corny but its true. Its better to be alone than deluded by that which is not completely true. When it is true it makes every second a year... when its not or no longer true.. every second seems like a year.... strive for honesty.. not monogamy..... honesty is because you want to... monogamy is bacause you have to.
bwian - Mon May 29 22:22:39 2000

In turmoil - You may be able to tell him how you feel once, but any more than that will seem like jealousy. Also you have to be absolutely sure that you are correct. So many times I hear the story that some couple stayed together despite all their friends telling them they were wrong for each other or the partner was something or other undesirable. As Free Spirit said, he has to make his own mistake. If it is a mistake be there to support him. If it isn't a mistake then be happy for him.
Panther - Tue May 30 8:01:09 2000

Although the above postings are right for the Turmoil person again the realisation does not seem to be coming though which has been posted on this board previously: too much power is being given to the object of affection. I know it seems to difficult to let go as an act of love but don't just assume that letting go equals you are not going to see that person again or in fact be with that person. This is the grand mistake of the new age movement: letting go, closure et al is not about not seeing someone, getting rid of your clothes or items if you can't even if they are taking up space and closing off your life. You can say I let the past go but even if you are in another country its your past and stuff still comes up. So Turmoil if you do read this I am saying what the others post is good but part of getting over "unrequited love" is seeing it is not, I repeat, not your fault that you feel this way. It does take effort to "get over it" but do it slowly. Perhaps go out with some others, go on a trip or chat to others who have been though the experience. Above all don't be hard on yourself. Free Spirit again I concur with a lot of what you say, however, it always seems the person you love has this power sanctioned by society that they are the victims. You can't just say to someone let go every three seconds and then walk away assuming all is ok. Getting over someone who may not love you takes time and patience and the only ones that seem to have this is the Gay & Lesbian Switchboards. Unrequited love is a lesson for both parties: never be fooled anyone that if you are in love you are to blame.
Annoyed New Age Person - Tue May 30 15:23:59 2000

ANAP, yes, you're right - it is so easy to say let go and give the impression that whoever one is hankering after, or whatever else one should be moving on from has the power, and that the self is at fault. We're all human, it's easy to blame one or another, even though neither is. We're each of us who we are, striving to be more in tune with life, to learn it's lessons.
I spent more than a year in a state of unrequited love, and it wasn't fun. Except that for some of that time - short spells - it was, for there was the joy of loving someone. In the end, I realised, or rather came to accept, that I was kidding myself, ignoring all the negative signs and living with and for those positive ones, most of which were mere memories. I learnt a lot, though, in that time.
Free Spirit - Tue May 30 22:28:39 2000

Again its all conjecture any new age answers to life. I just believe two things: karma can be good and the person you love has a reason or lesson involved in why you and him/her met. They must not be put on a pedistal as godlike and don't allow others to convince you that you are in the wrong for feeling this way.
Wed May 31 17:40:15 2000

Wed May 31 22:35:36 2000

Well, yet again i arranged to meet up with ppl...and yet again i was disappointed! They either didnt turn up, or just didnt bother to look out for me! I dont know what to do anymore. I cant get a girlfriend and i also cant even make a friend!!! I Dont Get It!!! What am i doing wrong?? All i want to do is meet friends for a night out...but even *That* is too hard to do!! I hate this world......:( :( :( :(
BrokenHearted(morethaneverbefore) :( - Wed May 31 22:56:17 2000

NotBrokenHearted - hug hug *hug*. You've had a lot of suggestions on here. Why not try going to a social group of some sort? The group is hardly going to disappear spontaneously, and the idea that people do when you appear isn't right. I think you're doing yourself down, dear one. Keep on smiling.
Free Spirit - Thu Jun 1 7:04:57 2000

Broken hearted, try to lighten up! If you read the other wall that you write on, you will see that it was because you and the other party missed each other, not a deliberate attempt to hurt you. Try not to put all your eggs in one basket and depend so much on other people for your happiness. people are only human and are bound to disappoint simply by living their own lives. Learn to be a bit more flexible, and try not to pin all your hopes on one thing. I will be very blunt here, and don't get me wrong but neediness scares people. Sad but true, the poeple that need love and affection the most ar the ones society steers clear of. TRy to find an interest, as people have suggested. It will allow you to meet people, build an interest in something and by learning something new and even becoming good at it, will help build self-confidence. People love confidence.
nik - Thu Jun 1 8:28:47 2000

In regard to the previous discussion "love is four letter word". Yes I have noticed this strange phenomenon. I was a sixties baby, and grew up in the seventies which was all "love is beautiful, love makes the world go round etc" and grew up believing that love was the most important thing in the world. The attitude in the nineties and noughties is that love is a weakness, even contemptible. Why?
nik - Thu Jun 1 8:33:20 2000

Perhaps nik, in the nineties and noughties love gets in the way of materialism, money and the me culture which we tend to promote as a society these days. There is just too little room in a lifestyle designed around a culture of a mobile workforce, electronic media, freedom of self expression, pursuit of solitary interests and of course greed. The many attributes of "love" and loving relationships don't fit into the modern stereotyped (and misinterpreted as "free") lifestyles, especially those promoted in gay circles, and to have strong feelings such as love for someone else is often considered a weakness. My experience (and seemingly those of some on this board also) is to publicly say or admit one is in love these days can almost be as traumatic as coming out. Sad isn't it that increasingly our society and so called non attitudinal cultures within society reject love as a valid human emotion and form of expression. One day (soon I hope), society may start to realise that love is a very valid and neccessary part of life and doesn't reflect a weakness or impairment with a person. Instead I think it reflects a creative intelligence in people and an ability to think and feel and get in touch with those feelings. I wouldn't like to see us evolve into a "loveless" society. We'd be brain dead robots I'm sure if we did.
60's love child also. - Thu Jun 1 14:07:27 2000

My god sixties you are the first person to articulate thoughtfully and correctly the problem. Well done. It is not surprising that we will see a conflict more and more between the choice of the career and love. Why can't we have both? Technically there is no reason but then the monogamy issue kicks in. I mean if your partner is a traveller it is not surprising if he/she stops at the sauna or bar. It is not surprising also that the bigger the city the more this is common (especially the three major East Coast capitals) though sometimes the country can be worse. I think Sixties and I hope that the advice you give, that people will change, will occur. Good luck to all.
Maybe Turning Straight Who Knows - Thu Jun 1 16:18:09 2000

It can happen! I have recently met the most wonderful man and he has made me so happy!! I was almost to the point of believing I was never going to find someone when out of no where he appears!! It's true what they say... that person will appear when you're least expecting it!!
Finally!! - Thu Jun 1 19:49:36 2000

Maybe Turning Straight, why should your partner if s/he is a traveller stop off at the sauna for whatever? Isn't the fact that that does happen part of the me thinking that dominates materialism? It's going to be left behind in times to come, that's for sure (the materialism). I live over 500k from my lover, but there's no way that I'd bother with anyone else, even though there are often breaks of twelve days between seeing each other. What would be the point? To cause an upset? Give a reason to bring lies and deceit into it all? Disregard his feelings? Demonstrate that I'm selfish? Prove that I'm such a foward-thinking guy that I can wander round darkened passageways looking for a quick shag and not think anything of it? I love him.
Free Spirit - Thu Jun 1 22:09:53 2000

I know Nik...i realised that now. I guess its just that with my experience of so many no-shows and rejections, im just that little bit wary and quite a lot sadder for it these days. Free Spirit: Hug Hug back..and thanx i needed that. Yes, i guess i have come off as too needy, but thats what comes from not having that before and wanting it sooo much! Yes, i am a member of some groups, which, in my opinion, these days seem so *cliquey*!! Each person in the group has their own special friend, and anyone else is just an intruder. THats why i try to find friends outside of them, just in case there is someone out there who is not cliquey and is just looking...just like me! :) :) xxxxxxxxxxx
BrokenHearted - Fri Jun 2 0:21:28 2000

BrokenHearted - Try not to expect too much from people, even those who are friends. Partly, each of us have our own priorities and at times these may seem to be at odds with maintaining friendships. Partly also, when something becomes duty rather than pleasure, its attraction quickly pales.
Panther - Fri Jun 2 9:27:15 2000

Panther is a killjoy.
annoyed - Fri Jun 2 12:47:50 2000

Panther is a very wise person
nik - Fri Jun 2 13:55:44 2000

Panther is right! I really dont want to be anyone's *duty*. I would much rather be thought of as a real friend than someone whom they *have* to be with to satisfy me! I guess im just a really outgoing friendly person who seeks the same from someone else. But Panther it is quite disheartening when people Really Arent interested in getting to know you unless you *fit in* to their group or population. :( . But dont worry. I havent given up yet! Im gonna find someone even if it kills me!(and it probably would too!) :)
BrokenHearted - Sat Jun 3 0:08:37 2000

Broken Hearted, you are posting one every wall just about, whining about being alone, go out and meet some friends, with this desperate "I have to find a partner thing" you will just push people away, and of course you have to fit in to a group to be a part of it, that is how you will become friends (by that I do not mean to conform and sucumb to peer pressure) I just mean finding people you can relate to and have things in common with. And that will happen for you, just give it time.
Sat Jun 3 12:27:57 2000

Yeah Broken Hearted is a S A D person ....in the the teary boo hoo way and the looser way. Stop looking for sympathy you pathetic twit. You are thriving on everyone going "Oh do this cheer up and all that" and then you go, "Oh no-one turned up...everyone hates me, I am single" With that attitude, no wonder!!!! You probably do have nothing to offer and that is why you have no friends and no partner..(I think you are a girl...so girlfriend) Let it go, you are obviously very boring....all you talk about is your self. And obviously that topic bites!!! Do you have cancer? Are you missing a limb? Is all your hair falling out???? Well see whiner??/It could be alot worse than...no girlfriend...alot worse...I think you are self centered and selfish.....there is so much more to think about than you....even for you Any way I know I have been harsh everyone, but really, has she taken your advise? Are you over the complaining? I just said what you were all thinking....oh yeah and boys can be just that bit crueller....or can they
Sat Jun 3 16:54:09 2000

Harsh? Not really, you said what I was thinking! Whinge, whinge, poor me, the world owes me something. BrokenHearted needs to get a life, not a girlfriend.
Sat Jun 3 17:30:15 2000

And you above hypocrites need to have some empathy. I am sure you at some stage have been alone and hated it. Frankly why are you indeed posting on the Internet. Boyfriends too busy at the sauna with better company. Broken Hearted you pay for your internet service so you whinge all you like. These fools don't know the words "scroll bar" obviously. Oh but then again the world owes them something: a personality transplant.
Sat Jun 3 17:41:56 2000

Thank you, Anon #3!! At least there is someone out there who has just a little bit sympathy for very lonely people. Obviously the other Anons have had people *swarming* around them from the moment their mothers ejected them into this world...and therefore have no concept of "lonely". Those people have too much social life and less "me" time, only because of the *masses* of friends and partners around them constantly!! Have a heart you people, and show others a little sympathy for not easily having something that comes quite obviously naturally and often to people like You!!!!!!!!!!!!
BrokenHearted - Sun Jun 4 0:14:25 2000

NotBrokenHearted, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everyone creates their own reality. You're doing this now, by calling yourself lonely, by naming yourself BrokenHearted, and so on. There's only one person who can stop you going round in circles, and that's you. You can ignore those who slag you off - they're probably jealous of you invoking sympathy. But you can have bucket loads of sympathy, and if you don't make the conscious effort *yourself* to be happy and to be yourself as you want to be and to put the everybody hates me syndrome behind you, then things will stay the way they are. You're clever, I'm sure of that, so please do some long hard thinking. Think "outside of the box". Try some fresh mental stimulation by doing something radically different. This world really isn't that bad and it's going to get a whole lot better for everyone, including you.
Free Spirit - Sun Jun 4 12:45:09 2000

No Free Spirit we don't reality every single piece of our reality. That is the myth of the New Age. It is empowering to know one creates one's own reality and certainly taking responsiblity for it is a step to solving some, if not all, of your "challenges" (not I did not use the word problem after all the universe does not like it). But that this for example FS: what if a big comet is heading towards earth and I want to create the reality of not being crushed under it even though the scientists say it will blow us up. Did I create this reality? How can I uncreate this reality? No I will not accept that we are creaters of external reality. As for the Broken Hearted again I don't care if you whinge till the end of the world (which Free Spirit will create, or is that not create?). Obviously the advice dispensed on this board makes sense but again just like unrequited love issues it is if the posters are putting the friend, lover, other on some platform as if to say you have to jump hoops to get them. No one is worth such rubbish. Stop giving power to those around you. Expect something from them, namely manners (which some of the above posters don't have) and persist. This is a cyberboard and its views should not be taken as law Broken Hearted. Keep plugging away joining groups, taking phone numbers of two or more people and show an interest in others. But don't pay attention to things like "don't expect too much" or you are at fault. I am tired of protocols we have to have to obtain friendships and love. I think you are sensible BH so again keep trying but ignore some of the rot posted: friendship is a two way street and those we prize so highly are not perfect and holier than thou that we have to sacrific who we are to fit in with these others who this board perpuates as gods/goddesses we have to crawl to be with. Good luck B.
Sun Jun 4 13:22:37 2000

Well for a start to change your reality, change your name from "Broken Hearted" to something positive??? Besides, you have not had you heart broken, you said you have never been in a relationship, Maybe you could get a pet? (I am being serious, it may help!!!)
Sun Jun 4 13:34:44 2000

I agree, I think a name change is good start. With such a powerless and negative name, you are bound to feel powerless and negative. I don't hink giving someone sympathy is necessarily a good step eithre because by saying "yes poor you", it is reinforcing the negativity. (god I'm starting to sound ne aged!) I think we can empathise with you, BH and offer advice, and that basically is all we can do. It is up to you to do the rest. It's going to take a big effort to haul your self up by the bootstraps, but if you want friends, girlfriends and all the rest of it then you need to do it so that you can have all these things. You mentioned in one of your posts that you wanted to meet friends because they led to meeting girlfriends. Well I think this is the wrong attitude to have too. Friends are friends because you share common interests and like each other and have fun together. They are not there to be used to find someone. You are bemoaning the apparent heartlessness of people when what you say sounds pretty self-serving and heartless too. Being depressed and down is a very nasty thing, each rejection (real or perceived) compound previous hurts. You have to make a stand and say "the buck stops here". Be happy in yourself.
nik - Sun Jun 4 15:47:09 2000

I don't get the "if you love someone set them free" line. Do you guys take hostages? Do you really know what love is. Reading through some of these postings it seems a lot of people are confusing love with a whole lot of other things ie obsession, control, self pity and tradgedy.
Mon Jun 5 10:38:12 2000

Sure the above posting is right but the aim of this wall is to assist in getting past obsession, control, self pity and tragedy. Obviously if all your family and friends disappeared you would hit the person who said "get over it" "move on" and with unrequited love it does take time. What is love? Too abstract but what I think it could be is not being hard on yourself if unwanted love happens. Would you, the above poster, pefer it if those in distress (albiet sure they may not have grown up yet) kill themselves or beat others (or worse their pets) up! No if you don't like the "whining" of those on the board use the scroll bar. Everyone needs advice sometimes. Don't resort to pathetic cliches (ie the wonderful get over it) and keep giving advice. Even if Broken Hearted does not take it up someone will. Good on you Panther for providing this topic.
Power to the House - Mon Jun 5 15:56:50 2000

Inspired by 'power to the house's call for advice to Broken Hearted: How about bringing on some positive changes about yourself to make you feel better,and hence improving your chances of finding a soul-mate? Approaching 50 and you're hopeless at cooking [quote: maybe the roaches got burnt] gulp.. that's not a joke,that's tragic!Bit of a slob? Discipline yourself,girl! Make your bed every morning,get into a rhythm of tidyness,clean up the friggin house! Have a good look in the mirror.. do you like what you see? Where could you make changes? You write you love yourself.. there is such a thing as loving yourself too much..and that comes out as self-indulgence. Don't put up with your vices,if you can improve on them. Self-respect is required before anyone can respect you. A few quick changes as of today will make you feel so much better about yourself and get you out of the rut.Of course - if i got the wrong end of the stick- please disregard this advice!! It's just a hint.. it's up to you.
respectfully yours - Tue Jun 6 10:00:42 2000

If the aim of this wall is to help people get past obsession, self pity, control and tradgedy its not working.I'm not at all sure thats what the posters want anyway.
Tue Jun 6 11:57:27 2000

the feeling I get from posters on this wall is they are seeking advice and help in the areas of their problems.... where some of the comments have been helpful (free spirit, Panther to name a couple) some are purely heartless and ignorant, this to the poster can be more hurtful than the problem at hand... I found the words "I love you" are thrown around with people like confetti at a wedding, and when someone genuine comes along it is all messed up in this confetti.... I myself have posted on this wall a couple of times but have found only a small amount of advice helpful the rest well waste of space.... I love someone very much but he is mixed up with someone that is only after one thing... and uses the words "I love you" like confetti...Until people stop falling into lust and find the true meaning of love (and that is not only sex) then I suggest you stand back and look into the mirror and see what kind of picture u are painting "against" the ones that love with their heart...
disgruntled - Tue Jun 6 19:45:41 2000

Six gold pennies drop from Heaven Five roll to the feet of five chosen The Sixth rolls into a drain Five have found happiness in someone's hand The Sixth is never to be seen again.
Wed Jun 7 0:59:48 2000

lust is human instinct....and so is loving - they go hand in hand no matter how much you try to deny it.
MsG - Wed Jun 7 8:43:24 2000

Mmmmmmmm........llllluuuuuuuuuusssssstttttttt
nik - Wed Jun 7 18:10:39 2000

My thing is I spend so much time with my unrequited love that it seems to of grown healthier. Why? Well its just that when I am with him I feel good. When I am away from him I am starting to feel more independent, stronger, cultivating new interests, looking after myself. I am scratching my head asking where did those Saturday nights crying on the pillow go? I can't find them. I find disgruntled interesting (respect there. Free Spirit too mostly except of course my reality arguement. In fact Free Spirit and I hope you read this you know yesterday I for the first time saw my issues from the third eye (you probably know what I mean. I got roasted because I broke down when one of my friends said I was a stalker. When I told my Unrequited Love person this he told me that I was being unreasonable and seeking validation for not being a stalker. Now FS that hit me like nothing else; here I was convincing myself I was one and the 'stalked' thought I was being unreasonable hard on myself and he said he thought he was stalking me! Now my point which I am sorry to labour is this: this is the first time in my life I felt I was creating my reality and was responsible for something. FS its amazing. Sorry to rant I shall leave this wall to others for now but FS if you do read this I could love a comment. It is "mindblowing" to see the creation of reality in the mind and stopping it. Sorry posters I sign off now and look forward to more postings over love.
Created Own Reality - Wed Jun 7 18:58:48 2000

what????
MsG ~ lost on that one! - Thu Jun 8 8:41:36 2000

Yes i reiterate...What???
nik - Thu Jun 8 11:06:23 2000

holy shite some people are S T R A N G E !
Thu Jun 8 11:34:54 2000

Roses Are Red Violets Are Blue Oh Baby, Oh Baby! I'm so Turned On By You!!
WaitingForYou,Girl! - Thu Jun 8 23:23:07 2000

Unrequited love!!!!!!! This wall is like a very bad Mills and Boon novel.
Fri Jun 9 17:22:56 2000

I have got love to give and guess what???? It ain't unrequited. I have some one that I tell often, that I love him. I get such a big kick out of seeing that look in his eyes. It is what is inside that shines outward. Been down the track of unrequited and it did me no good. To get it out, say it write it, sing it... To live in silence is to live in denial...
abba fan - Fri Jun 9 21:55:57 2000

Well the above posting is wonderful. Can I ask the great people of the board for some direction please? I have been going out with this great guy since August last year and we have become great friends and I fell in love with him. I told him and initially he was not happy and I decided not to press him and just be a good supportive friend. Last Easter our friendship became something pretty good, we feel comfortable with each other and all. I went out and dated and met other guys. Today we go out and we met this guy and as we left the cafe he told me that this guy is the guy he is "sort of dating". I said "that's wonderful" but he went all silent. I pressed him and he said this new guy was fine but persistantly changed the subject. Now I can't deny I love my friend a lot but if its unrequited or whatever that's not my problem, that's for me to work out. What my thing is, is this: what do I do if he and this guy start dating seriously? Should I not call my friend anymore? Should I just say to him look I like you but its time we moved on? I had two friends both went into relationships and after 5 to 7 years I still see them so I am not sure what to do. I suppose I can deal with him being with someone but it makes stuff difficult like for example what if I invite him out again? Any advice from anyone who have had this experience would be great. To simplify; what do you do if your best friend gets into a relationship because already I was told don't close the door on him. Gay platonic friendships are like gold. Any advice please people?
What to Heal Friendship - Mon Jun 12 15:17:57 2000

What to heal Frienship... I am in the same situation as u are however I live with the one I love so very much but he is going out with someone else.... I wouldnt shut the door on him I would tell him how u feel about him but also assure him u will be there and outlast however many boyfriends he goes through.... love is not built over night (well strong lasting love that is) keep calling him and doing what u are doing as relationships should not spoil good frienships either.... You might be very suprised that your friend could be waiting for u to make the first move... hence his quietness when u he told u about "The guy he is sorta seeing".... this is how I have dealt with things and even though there are moments of unhappiness and unease we are still great friends... best of luck to you
already there - Mon Jun 12 20:44:51 2000

This is quite boring but i need to get it out of me being that i have never poured my feelings out. 16 months ago i was living in the closet in the northwest of WA working in an Iron Ore mine then met this guy on the net,we arranged to meet in Perth and we eventually fell in love. He left his job in QLD and moved to Perth and i was in the process of leaving mine and moving to Perth when he met another guy and left me. needless to say i was devestated and left my job anyway, he then had a change of heart and wanted me back but changed his mind again after a few days. So i drifted around Australia in a self pittying haze and found myself in Townsville, he had another change of heart and said i was his true love, I was so in love with him i went back to Perth but he found a new boyfriend. 16 months ago i had a good job and $72000 a year, today i live in a one bedroom flat in Brisbane on the dole and bankrupt all because i let my heart rule my head. Unrequited Love is the worst pain and takes so much inner strength to deal with, I just wish i had that strength earlyer. I'm just glad i didnt replace it with long term hate, We are still friends and i know he is not an evil person even if he was so careless with my feelings, I should have been wiser and faced what i really knew but didnt have the courage to admit, That it was over the first time he walked away. I have leant that bitterness and hatred drain you of life and that pride is foolish, Forgivness releases you and allows you to go forward maybe even to be swept up again in into that turbulent storm called Love.
mike - Tue Jun 13 1:01:08 2000

forgiveness schmorgiveness
nik - Tue Jun 13 7:09:01 2000

What to Heal Friendship - Friends are very important. Something that often occurs when people start a new relationship is that they get so wrapped up in each other that they ignore the outside world and loose all their friends. If you are happy being a friend then try to keep the friendship going. Keep in touch, see him sometimes, get to know them as a couple, be there when he needs to talk to someone about his relationship.

You also suggested he may not be happy with this relationship. Maybe you can talk with him about that. Go somewhere comfortable and private and draw him out about it. Make your motives clear so he doen't think you are trying to break them up.
Panther - Tue Jun 13 11:09:06 2000

Mike - It sounds as if you are ready to move on from this relationship and rebuild your life. A difficult lesson I know, but you will probably not rush off again quite so quickly next time. Though no amount of advice would have changed what you did. All the best for the future.
Panther - Tue Jun 13 11:14:14 2000

I have recently met a girl with whom I have fallen in love. we're both in our late 20's, and she's the most gorgeous creature, inside and out, and we share so many things in common - our personalities (both very gentle and compassionate) and our interests.
the problem is that she has an aggressive ex gf who she broke up with several months ago, and who has recently come back into her life to ask for a second chance. she's told her it's over for good, but the torment that this girl put her through during the relationship has nearly destroyed her faith in finding love.
I've only just met this girl and I know deep down that through all the hurt she wants to be loved again, and I know I am the person to give that to her. she's such a kind, sensitive creature, I can't imagine anyone treating her the way her ex did.
I want to give her some space to deal with the trauma of the ex, but at the same time I want her to know that she is worthy of so much more!
I want to tell her that if we were together, I would give her all the love and attention that she deserves; that I would treat her like a princess.
her ex did nothing for her, didn't appreciate her, and didn't respect her, when she has so much love to give.
what can I do??? I don't want to crowd her but at the same time I want her to know that I'm there for her.
I know that this is the girl for me, I've never felt this way about anyone before. please help!
panda - Tue Jun 13 13:06:41 2000

for some people a tense, abusive relationship is more exciting than a calm ,loving one.
nik - Tue Jun 13 15:08:30 2000

Thank you to all the above people for advice. My mother (god bless them hey) says don't give up. Is it a form of hangin on? Perhaps but who else has done this, most likely all. I don't know I think this wall helps greatly. Thank you again all.
On the way to healing - Tue Jun 13 15:38:19 2000

Panda - Best thing is to tell her all of that. It isn't up to you to decide that she needs space though, but you can make the offer. You could tell her face to face, or write to her, or write it down and give it to her before you lose your courage to say it.
Panther - Tue Jun 13 19:16:49 2000

I'm in love with this guy but he is going out with someone else.What should i do? Do a reality check Is every one who posts here in the 12-14 year age group.Its unbelievable.
Wed Jun 14 10:37:21 2000

thanks panther, I might just do that :):)
panda - Wed Jun 14 13:07:12 2000

To the above poster, meaning no disrespect, but I am over 30 and this love thing hits me. It may be a sign that I have not grown up but perhaps it is a sign I have more to learn. Please people don't be so hard on yourselves about the unwanted relationships et al. And also who says if you can't get the person you want you can't still see them, this is not always a form of clinging and besides sometimes they appreciate you as friends. In fact sometimes the friendship you have with the one you want is more powerful and loving than romance. I got hurt the other day when my best friend who I love said he was seeing someone and flirted with the guy in front of me. Yet a couple days later I am not that worried as I was. It hurt but then again it was simply more for me to learn. So people keep posting if you are 12 or 100 because sometimes the feelings come at any age.
Learning - Wed Jun 14 20:18:55 2000

Hello everybody. I have a really big problem i need help with here, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated...I have *never* had a g/f, but would very much like one (yes i am gay!), as i have a heart that is just aching to give a woman all the loving she deserves. I have tried the clubs, pubs, the group thing (online and outside), i have posted personals on both internet and mags/papers...even asked friends (of little i have) if they knew of anyone who is single...but Nothing!! I am in my early 30s and very very anxious to find that one love before my heart just fizzles into oblivion! Where is she, and how do i find her????? Is this an impossible task...something i am destined not to succeed in??? When does this aching end??
An Impossible Dream??? - Thu Jun 15 1:59:30 2000

Learning: Thankyou for your comments :) She went back to her ex in the end, but after a few tears I think I'll be OK.
panda - Thu Jun 15 7:49:06 2000

I am hoping one day that someone posts who is the object of the unrequited love rather than all of us with the problem. I just wanted to share something; has anyone thought that if you love someone and they don't love you that it is not always personal? I mean there could be something in the person you love that they are scared of, have issues or they find me or you unbearable because of the fear of what would happen if they loved or even liked you. Perhaps they feel they are going to give up something; you (or me) may represent something scary, love in its pure form, unconditional etc. Granted there is no doubt that people exist that would not even give a second glance but then again its still with them. I just have some to believe now that there are reasons for both sides coming together and whilst we have (as the wall attests) been carrying the burdon of feeling all sorts of emotions especially that of rejection. What I am proposing is that rejection is not personal, its the issue of the person who rejects you. They are going though things. I have also seen how much I allow these emotions to come and it has been great. The important point is do for a girl or boy friend, have some romantic love and the excitement don't worry that happens its exciting and don't repress it. What I am saying is the unrequited love issue is a two way street and I hope we all get to a place where we can see clearer what this whole love thing is about. I love you posters on this wall you have been part of a journey which is nothing short of miraculous.
Thank You - Thu Jun 15 9:17:57 2000

An Impossible Dream??? - You sound desperate. Desperation is unattractive to potential lovers. Also when you are desperate and find someone you tend to cling too toght and scare them away. The only solution I know of is to stop being desparate. Learn to enjoy being single. Learn to love yourself. Learn personal peace and calm. When you have achieved all of this someone will probably come along and mess up your life. But if they don't it won't be so bad.
Panther - Thu Jun 15 9:55:04 2000