Love 6: Unrequited

In the chilly hours and minutes
Of uncertainty
I want to be
In the warm hold of your loving mind.

To feel you all around me
And to take your hand
Along the sand
Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

When sundown pales the sky
I wanna hide a while
Behind your smile
And everywhere I'd look, your eyes I'd find.

For me to love you now
Would be the sweetest thing,
T'would make me sing
Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.
Catch the Wind Donovan

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Love 5: Together
Love 7: Breaking Up

Well, Looks like I'm the first here......un-requited love huh??? I have no idea what that means......
PA - Fri Nov 12 0:29:32 1999

Then you're lucky!!!
nik - Fri Nov 12 8:49:31 1999

I envy you PA with not knowing unrequited. However I think that for most of us it's an experience that is altogether too common.
sigh - Fri Nov 12 9:21:06 1999

For all those out there who have been following the trials and tribulations of the BND and DB seperation here is an update. Things went through a real rough patch a couple of months ago and I was very sad, we wern't communicating like we used to. But we stayed in contact (at least once or twice week) and talked about the boys we were both seeing and the things we were doing. We both got stronger and more independant and this kind of worried my because I diddn't know if this growth would go too far and mean there was no longer any need in our lives for each other. Well he decided to come to Perth for PRIDE, it was a supprise to the rest of our friends and ex flamate. He arrived the day earlier and met me at the airport. It was great to see him standing there but for the first couple of hours I was scared of him. He was so familiar yet I knew he was now different but not how. We sat in the hotel and talked and soon the tension melted away, it was so nice to wake up with us in our old sleeping positions, some things hopefully will never change. We had a great time in Perth and discovered that we have both grown up but not changed that much. He was due to fly back to London on the Wednesday, the same day I came back to Sydney but on the Tuesday decided he was going to come and spend a week in Sydney with me. After spending a day at home "straighening things up" and putting his touch on the place he settled back in. We are doing Frisky tonight and he flies out on Tuesday. As I type this the sexiest boy in the whole wide world is curled up asleep in my bed. It hasn't all been plain sailing, we have discussed when we will be getting back together but for the moment we both have our individle focuses that we both respect. I am going to London to spend New Year with him which will be great as it will be his chance to show me some of the things he is doing and some of the things he has achieved. I sleep easier now knowing that there is a future perhaps not tomorrow but when things are right.
BND - Sat Nov 13 10:09:28 1999

Ill always love you poo!Good luck with your exams and remember that no matter how nasty you are to me I will forgive you.When you learn a little more about life you will understand that my love is truely unconditional,not obsessive,just pure love........grizz..xxxxx
Grizz - Sun Nov 14 19:52:44 1999

I mean that I don't understand what un-requited means....I know what love is......it's crazy!!!
PA - Mon Nov 15 23:24:41 1999

Main Entry: un·re·quit·ed
Pronunciation: "&n-ri-'kwI-t&d
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1542
: not requited : not reciprocated or returned in kind
unrequited love
Webster Dictionary Online
angelboy - Tue Nov 16 11:44:48 1999

Tue Nov 16 11:45:54 1999

Ditto: Oxford Dictionary Inhand:)
The very naughty boy - Tue Nov 16 17:48:25 1999

Out on the back porch I stood in the early pre dawn. Frozen in my dressing gown all ragged and torn. Not a Leonid in sight, my the cold, what bite. Then out you came, to be with me. Many stars, we could see. Then you turn around and look me in the eye, we hug and I let out a big sigh. Then the kiss, oh what bliss. A kiss under the stars, oh I think I'm now on Mars! It beats any meteor storm my love.
Shooting stars. - Thu Nov 18 11:38:38 1999

My beautiful shooting star. I loved what we did last night searching for something that was not to be seen, but at the same time knowing we have everything we have ever wanted. I am truly yours
Uranus - Thu Nov 18 23:56:38 1999

just close your eyes,
and turn the page,it was a big romance inside of him,
and every time you turn a page,
you'll feel what he felt,you'll see what he saw.

but where is he now?
there is no end on the last page,
so he's gone,just gone,
but there is still no final end.
maybe this is one of those thousands of stories,
that couldn't find an end,except a blank page.

life goes on,everything goes on,
but he's gone,
now tell me,was it worth it?
that he loved Ross so much..
said that "only Ross".
but noone understood him,
how much he loved him.
skywalker - Fri Nov 19 13:05:16 1999

Fri Nov 19 13:12:44 1999

tonstant weader frowed up
Fri Nov 19 16:48:14 1999

My boyfriend prefers to spend a lot of time with an ex lover on the gay scene (I'm told that to be there would cause "problems" ), out on romantic dinner nights and associates with the lover (who conveniently becomes someone else more legitimate when it suits) and people who are destructive to our relationship and against it (they have made it clear they want him for themselves). When I tell him I don't like that he calls me possesive and demanding and he should be able to do what he wants and then makes me feel guilty for getting down about this. I let him do what he wants and end up feeling very dejected and miserable and so alone. He doesn't work and doesn't want a job because that would cramp his lifestyle with these others who keep hours better suited to keeping him away from me (I work in a demanding and dedicated 9-5 job, when I take days off to be with him, he criticises me for doing that and can't be with me because he has commitments with these others). Everytime I do something wrong because I'm passionate about him, these others in his life hold that against me and won't forgive me and he won't either (he keeps bringing these things up). I offer him commitment, independence and a life together but he then tells me he has no security in the relationship because I don't approve him of continuing this lifestyle that he leads and his "friends" (who dissapprove of me) tell him I'm taking him away from them. I exhaust myself trying to keep him happy and when I feel bad and down, I get no understanding or sympathy. I feel he will leave me at any moment I do the wrong thing by him and I am criticies and never forgiven, he has absolutely nothing to miss or be sad about if he does so as these other people in his life want him for themselves. He promises commitment (it never happens despite me opening up my whole life to him) and change but only on the condition that these other people in his life are satisfied by taking him away from me. I exhaust myself trying to compete with these others and dislike the gay scene immensly because of this exclusion that I'm forced to feel. Regardless of this though, I love him very much (stupidly perhaps) and how unrequitted can you get on this level. I wish he would feel the same way but perhaps I should let him go to fly away. Perhaps I am being unrealistic in my expectations. He doesn't know how good he's got it.
Unreal Love - Tue Nov 23 19:44:49 1999

Unreal Love - Your boyfriennd should also be your friend, someone that you can spend time with that is enjoyable, someone you can talk to. You have put down a lot of negatives above, but no positives. Try writing down the positives for yourself. Then examine both and see if it the relationship you want. You may find it useful to talk to your local Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service.
Panther - Tue Nov 23 21:41:38 1999

Dear 'Unreal love' - it would be wrong to give you advice as I don't really know the situation. Nevertheless, what you describe sounds very dicey. If I were in the situation you describe I guess I would both think and feel this relationship is doomed. Following from this, I would be thinking how I will be feeling once it ends under varying scenarios. I kind of think I'd be feeling worse if I waited to get dumped by him, than if I acted myself to bring it to an end. This would probably lead me to looking for a way to end it. By trying so hard to make it work, I presume I would have surprise on my side by just ending it in cold blood. By this, I mean I'd save my breath rather than criticise him, or seem to be disapproving of anything he does. I would merely tell him that "I am not getting what I want - so I am ending the relationship. Have a nice life. Goodbye." If he asked me what I wanted - I'd tell me that "I've already told you that, now I am telling you I have not got what I want, and that I am now ending the relationship." I would try as hard as possible not to be angry or rancorous or blaming or anything other than calm and neutral. I'd keep it very short. I can do this by scheduling a hair appointment 5 for minutes after the time I get to speak to him or a movie or a coffee with a great and very supporting friend. Whatever I did, I would not argue with him or be seen to blame him for anything, because the chances are he will use that to rationalise the failure of the relationship and pin it on me. If anything, I would thank him for the experience and wish him a happy life. Finish. As for you, darling darling darling - you would then need to get your own house in order! You/I will need to realise that no guy no matter how apparently sexy and otherwise fabulous has the power to make you/me feel "dejected and miserable and so alone". True, "he doesn't know how good he's got it" - but I wouldn't waste my energy thinking about him even to this extent. Go and find someone who is decent, for goodness sakes there *are* really great guyz out there!!!! Why waste your precious precious precious life with no hopers?
Been there too! - Tue Nov 23 22:04:57 1999

Could I ask a really really really special favour of Panther? Panther dear, would it be possible to ditch your lovely hearts? The hearts, together with the blue writing, make reading the screen really difficult - at least for some of us! Plus, 'love' has a lot more in it than the pure emotion heart symbols signify. For example, to be in love with someone also involves brain activity - thinking I mean. Horror horror! I hear screamed at me! Yes, thinking, I say. The heart and the head come together to form love, I repeat. Please consider my genuine suggestion. Thanks.
Finding it hard to read the screen. - Tue Nov 23 22:12:47 1999

For example - self destructive behaviour, such as holding on to a love object which inflicts unreasonable pain and damages one's life chances, is not 'love', it's more like self hate. These issues need powerful thoughts, not powerful emotions.
Been there too! - Tue Nov 23 22:16:54 1999

Have a nice Christams day with your true lover "Rosie". You deserve each other you two timing bastard. It's such a pity you can't feel so empathetic towards your boyfriend. So what are you hiding on the scene with your lover of a Mother. You are a bastard and you should feel ashamed of yourself. Enjoy the Scene, It's all you've got!!!!
Disillusioned and dejected - Tue Nov 23 23:08:57 1999

I truley hate the scene now. It's so negative towards stable relationships. If your boyfriend likes the scene, then be very, very suspicious. It doesn't promote 1:1 relationships. Bascically he wants to f%%%%%ck around if he wants to tell you that. Trust me there, I don't bullshit. Your BF says he likes that then he's fuc****king around on you.
Burnt - Tue Nov 23 23:19:51 1999

Happy birthay Max,i love you so much and i wanna spend the rest of my love with you.
TX - Wed Nov 24 13:18:10 1999

Full moon last night.
Wed Nov 24 13:19:08 1999

All my love for you sweet Chris. You complete me.
Melissa - Wed Nov 24 13:20:27 1999

I'm young,cute,funny,I enyoy life and I just feel like scarlett from Gone With The Wind.I love some one so much.I also thought that he loved me too but i was wrong.He has a boyfriend and he loves him so much.he told me to forget him but i can't.It's been a long time now but i still love him and i get jealous when i see him with his boyfriend.Sometimes i just pretend like i'm over him.I have a lot of guys around me who like me,i talk to them,i have fun,i try to make him jealous but inside i just cry,he's the onlyone i can't get and he's the only one i want.I see a lot of guys around me who'd love to be with me but i still look at him and i miss him so much. now there is a guy who tells me that he loves me so much.He's funny,kind and he does everything that i ask him to do but i don't love him,i love the other one. I don't know what to do but i know that i'd go out with him to make the other one i love jealous. I'm confused and i need help plase.
little boy - Wed Nov 24 13:31:29 1999

Ouch, littel boy! That hurt! Surely you can't be serious!? You sound like a decent guy, but here you are proposing to let a guy believe you love him - even though you don't - just so that you can get someone else! Wow - I sure hope you aren't serious. Perhaps you would be better off letting go of the guy who doesn't love you and building a life for yourself first. Perhaps you aren't ready for a boyfriend at all right now. Get your feet back on the ground - and get on with your life. Later, you can think about getting a boyfriend.
little boy's time to grow up - Wed Nov 24 20:20:46 1999

I thought that I was having a bad day since my boyfriend broke up with me. He recently wrote me saying he is "doing me a favour" and it has turned the day from being depressed to one of non stop laughter. Does anyone else find this as amusing as I find it
John - Thu Nov 25 16:09:10 1999

Why are we content to search out in someone else what we lack, instead of searching for it within ourselves? Love is about denying our own abilities to be whole and independent. It grows in maturity when we strenghten our resolve to take care of ourselves, intead of expecting someone else to save us.
Earth - Sat Nov 27 0:26:07 1999

Dear Earth - interesting idea. Are you saying all love is like this? Please respond - as I would like to hear your opinion. Thanks.
Really? - Sat Nov 27 19:27:31 1999

What happens when one of your so-called close friends continually protects and takes the side of your ex. Especially when you have have been the wronged one in the relationship?
Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999

Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999 - Sit them down and have a good long talk with them. See if you can come to an understanding.
Panther - Mon Nov 29 20:05:59 1999

Mon Nov 29 11:05:48 1999 - Maybe your friend is playing devils advocate? maybe your friend relates to your ex and not u? guess panthers right, u r not going to know until u talk it thru
Wed Dec 1 4:35:02 1999

Earth (Sat Nov 27 0:26:07 1999) presents what seems to be a position of radical individualism. While I agree that love will not save us from what we lack inside, I see no reason why loving someone is incompatible with independence and being 'whole' (a rather vague term - seems to be a bit too finite for me). Just an opinion.
Stephen - Wed Dec 1 13:12:57 1999

So sorry Earth hasn't yet responded to my query about his/her posting. Stephen's is the usual (humanist?) view - I am inclined to think Earth may have a point about the completely unrealistic models of love that do the traps. I kind of think 'love' as most guys mean it is a heightened form of attraction - hardly any different to what you might feel for a great car or whatever other object turns you on. If so, then I would suggest a lot of us need to do some real thinking about what we are asking of each other when we fall in love or want to be in love or find that we are not loved, etc. To find that you are not adored in much the same way a car either is or isn't adored, is hardly cause for too much grief. If a believe in love at all, it would have to be more than this. Not sure that this is what other people are on about though - please let me know what you think!
Really? - Wed Dec 1 20:01:58 1999

Its a long time since I have been called a humanist. I am much too much of a non-relativist structuralist really (and if this is just babble to you, you are probably right). I agree with Really?'s point about unrealistic perspectives on love, but I feel that Earth's position throws out the good with the bad. But without greater explanation of meanings, it is not possible to really tell. I do believe that we humans are fundamentally social beings, and that this is not a shortcoming. Within this is a capacity and very possibly a need for love.
stephen - Thu Dec 2 17:12:16 1999

I have the belief that we as human beings are inately "relational beings". That is, by our very nature, we need relationships. I also believe that we have specific need for what some call "romantic love"--the typical Prince Charming thing. So, in a sense, to be whole (i.e., have all of our needs met) does require having love. However, I like to think that needing love to be whole does not mean that we can not also be independent? I think the concern lies in the place where we turn to "love" as the answer to all of our needs. Just as eating when you are tired does not fill the need for sleep, having "love" does not fill other needs such as a need for recognition through work, the need for achievement, etc.
Jeff - Thu Dec 2 18:45:31 1999

What a wonderful, philosophical and intellectually stimulating discussion going on here. Perhaps the "nirvana" that I can imagine is the scenario of two "whole and independent" people who are in love with each other. Now that would be a powerful relationship I reckon. I wonder if other animals that pair up experience these feelings of "love" for each other that we humans often feel? To feel these feelings (as social beings who need to relate to others) obviously has given us an evolutionary edge in the world. Personally, If I couldn't (or am not) be whole and independent then I'd rather be "in love" (and receive love from someone) than not in love at all. It's like saying that money may not buy happiness but it can sure make things more comfortable for you if you are miserable.
Vive Amour! - Fri Dec 3 9:43:31 1999

Just when I thought everything was fine in my 4 year relationship, love/lust for another has to come along and slap me in the face. Why oh why???
dazedandconfused - Tue Dec 7 2:50:35 1999

Because you allowed it to dear.
Tue Dec 7 21:00:19 1999

I think dazedandconfused has mixed the idea of love/lust when they are in factor totally different things. Love is understanding, care, companionship, friendship, deep interest. It takes time to grow and will only grow if both are willing for it to grow. However, lust, on the other hand is physical attraction. I have been in a relaitonship now for 5 years and I love my partner & he loves me, but we both lust over guys because we find other guys sexually attractive. We may have a threesome or play when we are at a dance party but we know that the "getting off" with someone else isn't love and can't replace love. Sure, we all fall in and fall out of love if we allow ourselves to do so. It is a decision, a commitment to love. I think as gay men we take our relationships far too seriously, rather, we should allow love to develop, allow our partners to be who they are and love them for their individuality without condition. Take each day as it comes and enjoy love each day.
Wed Dec 8 13:39:19 1999

I am a 25 yo muscle guy living in Sydney with a sexy 23 yo boyfriend who is toned and tanned. Last week we went to The Den on Oxford Street and met this 55 yo and took him him home. Anyway now this guy says he loves me and my boyfriend. Whats the problem? We are upset because he says this but we found out he has a 43 yo boyfriend who is a stud as we found out. To make matters worse our "friends" found out we had sex with someone over 30 which in our circle of friends is a criminal offence (I mean he is 55 for god's sake). Anyway if you lot read this I like these two guys and if we want to have a 4 way then its our business. Merry xmas
Bruce & David - Sun Dec 12 12:28:35 1999

Bruce and David; Good on you for asserting your attitudes there. I mean where is it written that you "Should" only do this or do that when it comes to this type of situation? People can be so judgemental at times and perhaps some elements of the gay community are the worst at it. If you all like each other and are comfortable about it then why not? It could be the perfect relationship for you all! Merry Xmas also and have a great year!
Attitude, schmattitude. - Sun Dec 12 12:51:48 1999

A song about unrequited love???? How about Donovan's "Catch the Wind"?
Scott - Sun Dec 12 17:01:03 1999

Ignore the above, I just realised from looking at the prior topics the name of the song should be 'unrequited love' - I can't help with that one!
Sun Dec 12 17:12:11 1999

Scott, that's fine thanks.
Panther - Sun Dec 12 18:15:36 1999

Its not unrequited, but the guy with whom I am starting a relationship is OS until the new year. I am missing him, and really want a warm hug. This seems like such a long 5 weeks. Its funny how we connect so easily and quickly to someone every now and then, and that when they leave, it seems like a bit if hole is left behind.
hugless - Tue Dec 14 17:32:06 1999

After the last broken heart took 2 years to heal I met a guy (through friends, not the scene thank god) and it all happens over again. Wonderful smile, makes me laugh, loves to hold my hand, we read to each other and I find myself spending so much time with him, talking to him and thinking about him. Waking up in the same position we fell asleep in, holding each other close and smiling at what a great thing we have. ... ... and then the distance, the forgotten calls and the eventual realisation that its all happening again. ... ... He wants to be friends but the last time I saw him I couldnt cope and had to leave. Saying "everything is OK" and "this is a good thing" just doesnt cut it when all you want to do is curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep. ... ... I have friends who are so in love it makes my heart sing for them but bleed for me, and all I can think is that true love does happen. I don't look for it or even wish for it as I know thats self defeating but to have that boy who shares the same feeling isnt too much to ask for... is it?
Tempest - Sat Dec 18 0:01:06 1999

my boyf and i have been together 10 years. we no longer have sex but have developed into a plutonic relationship - sorta like brothers. Is this normal?
Confused - Mon Dec 20 22:11:05 1999

Well its certainly the norm for lesbians
Tue Dec 21 7:42:54 1999

says who?!?!
Lebian Sex life might slow down somewhat considerably but it doesn't cease to exist altogether!
And besides this is no different to any hetrosexual relationships - especially after kids and many years under the bridge.
Tue Dec 21 9:09:41 1999

Confused - It is common for people to have less sex after years together. What works best for you may not be right for others. If it bothers you then talk about it with your partner. If you are having problems talking about it with your partner then try talking to a counsellor, or maybe a couples counsellor.
Panther - Tue Dec 21 20:17:52 1999

Thanks Panther and others for their replies - We get on real well - still kiss and cuddle but we are not interested in having sex with each other. We have sorta ended up best mates and if either of us have or want sex we just have it outside the relationship. I was just wondering if this is what happens in a long term relationship?
Confused - Tue Dec 21 21:41:49 1999

Straights have sex with their children when they get sick of their wife.
Wed Dec 22 9:13:11 1999

i walked out on love cause he was loving his time on the computer.
watson - Thu Dec 23 7:13:14 1999

I love you so much honey, I ache to be without you and after 2 years it still feels like the honeymoon and I think it always will. You complete me on every level.....xoxoxoxo
tubber oxox - Thu Dec 23 18:50:57 1999

Dear Snugglepuss, you know I love you more and more as each day goes by....From your Cuddlepie.
Yes It's me. - Sat Dec 25 15:46:52 1999

To the twit who wrote on 22/12 "Straights have sex with thier children" You are a twisted person love, sure sexual abuse exists but no need to make it a "Hetrophobic" comment. It is not nice (or true) when staight people associate gay men with peodophilia etc so we shoudl not stoop to that level either. And if you are going to reply "Well it happened to me" I am really sorry for you, go and get therapy and get over it.
Anon - Mon Dec 27 15:25:42 1999

Even God is powerless against history, against the past, how could i ever begin to imagine i could change that
It hurts, it just hurts... - Tue Dec 28 17:35:19 1999

Right now I fear that there is no such thing as love! - we are all fooling ourselves.
lil' Ms - Tue Jan 4 14:48:48 2000

Of course there is such as thing as love. It's just harder for gays. As if we didn't have enough problems!
Melbcynic - Fri Jan 7 0:02:16 2000

Melbcynic - I know you are right.
lil' Ms - Fri Jan 7 9:53:05 2000

Tony C, Tony C, Tony C, will you ever notice me!
REN - Fri Jan 7 11:52:16 2000

Love is the refuge of one's soul. It is a pseudo-entity that two people create when they mix intimacy and vulnerability with sexual chemistry. It is a vunerable entity and it somtimes can be mortally wounded. It has a flavour, a feel, and a magic about it. And it will be the thing that humanity will forever be obsessed about capturing and worshipping for a long time to come.
D&Mboy... - Fri Jan 7 20:28:22 2000

Hi,I'm female and a bit confused about love. Hate to turn this into an agony column but maybe there are some older gay/bisexuals who can advise. I can't find anywhere else to ask. Athough I say I'm bisexual the thought of women is what I really love. I was in an intimate relationship with a girl for two years and it felt so natural, exciting, passionate, as I'm sure most first love does. This relationship ended badly because I did not love her mind, in fact I hated it most of the time. Recently I have become involved with a man who I do love the mind and body of but that spark I felt with my first lover just isn't there, I don't feel that warmth and comfort with him and I still think about women when I'm with him, or when I'm thinking of him. I have always felt that I could never love a man although I am attracted to men in some ways(sorry, but there are physical hang-ups as well as mental ones!), but I am considering entering a longterm relationship with him. I don't know if what I feel for him is real love or if I should wait to meet the right girl instead of stringing him along on something that in my heart I know won't work. This confusion over what love is is making me feel that 'love' doesn't exist, or that I'll never feel it. I like what 'D&Mboy' says on the subject and I thought I'd experienced it with my first girlfriend but how could I if I did not love her mind or behaviour? Should love not be friendship and respect as well as physical attraction? As I say, this is what I feel for my man but that spark isn't there. I've explained how I feel about women to him but I still feel for him. Can anybody help me?
huggabunny - Sat Jan 15 3:58:12 2000

huggabunny - don't they always say that you never forget your first? Well, unless it was a quick shag and a quick wave goodbye, that is. Believe me, love exists (it's more important than anything else in the universe!) It always means friendship and respect and not just physical attraction. I don't know for sure, of course, but it sounds like there was a very strong physical attraction in your first, but that it wasn't much more than that, and as it was your first, that heightened the feelings. But then it went on for two years?! Hmmmm...now I'm a bit confused.

I agree, D&M boy is about right. I'd say that love is a good combination of these three attributes: romance (meaning the physical stuff), commitment, and intimacy (meaning understanding, commonality and sharing). If you have those three in equal measure, then wow! You are in love, baby! As Panther says, the physical side (romance) can lessen, but the relationship can continue. But without either one of the other two, that is, without either commitment or mutual understanding, the relationship will fail.
free spirit - Sat Jan 15 9:49:51 2000

huggabunny - You seem a bit hung up on the gender of your partner. I am not sure whether this is because you are unsure of your own sexuality or because you are confused by your experiences. Or maybe you are just not ready for a committed relationship.
Panther - Sat Jan 15 10:53:54 2000

To my little one - what a fabulous holiday we had. Happy New Year - can't wait to spend the next 90 with you our kids and family - love you always xxxxxxxx
woodwark - Sat Jan 15 16:03:34 2000

Thanks a lot free spirit, you have helped a lot. And I do agree with you Panther, I think all three of those things are right, though I've always said a person's gender doesn't concern me, it's the person I see. I'll figure it out in time I guess, I'm glad I have this sight to visit when I'm feeling confused and isolated. Thanks again!
huggabunny - Tue Jan 18 0:54:02 2000

huggabunny, love is a wild plant that grows where it can. My experience has been that you can find yourself in love when your head is telling you its not right. Sometimes you are with someone who cares about you and you feel the situation should be right, but somehow something is missing. My advice would be to let your heart feel, listen to what it is saying, and let your head decide whether to go with your heart or not. In time I have learned to listen to my heart. In time I have learned that sometimes love requires sacrifices that are too great for that point in your life and your head needs to govern. Be gentle with yourself, examine your expectations. Tap into the treasure-trove of your experience. Be prepared to go out on a limb sometimes, you may get hurt, but you will learn a lot.
sideburns - Wed Jan 19 10:12:32 2000

BND, well the holiday has come to an end,and it's time to go back to our respective corners of the globe. Although I don't think a globe has corners. I had an amazing time, and am looking forward to you finally moving to London. Thanks for looking after me in Switzerland. And thanks for the wicked time in LA. My best holiday yet. See you at Mardi Gras BB, be good - or be good at it. Love you. Your SB
DB - Sat Jan 22 1:53:20 2000

What is Love, but a way to heal and destroy.....
Lukey - Sun Jan 23 14:07:20 2000

"...desolation" may have been the word you were looking for? :-)
free spirit - Sun Jan 23 21:57:17 2000

Already 7 months, away from home. From Sydney, Australia. A country I chose to be my home. Coming back on Saturday, my heart already pounding like I'm a bout to meet a boyfriend...that I don't have yet. Love it is, as stupid as some might think. Never forget you all live in such a nice land, a chance so many don't have. To all lonely hearts : smile to life, believe me it then smiles back at you! sydneyblue@hotmail.com
Blue- sleepless in freezing Amsterdam - Tue Jan 25 15:04:56 2000

:-))
Tue Jan 25 23:26:10 2000

Why didn't that bisexual man love me! I'm so pretty, smart and tolerant!
Gay & Proud - Thu Jan 27 2:23:09 2000

I have been in a long term relationship for a number of years. The problem is that although i love my boyfriend,we no longer have a very active sex life. Non-monogamy is definite no-no for us as well. I have been in the dating game and know how horrible it can be. My guy is a good man, and I certainly couldn't do better but the relationship is lacking that spark. I am still fairly young so i ahve a dilemma. Do I stay in my safe but bland relationship (because love don't come knockin all that much) or do I go out and try to find the "spark" (because you only live once)
chris - Thu Jan 27 15:10:25 2000

Chris, as you probably realise, there's only one person who can decide for you, and that's you. I reckon that you have to ask yourself a lot of questions, over a period of time, but that the answer will come from deep within you.

Is the relationship "bland" in ways other than sex? Do you still find your partner sexually attractive? If so, are you doing enough about that to make it happen between you? Are you staying with him only because you fear the alternative? Can you see yourself living without him? Love is sharing - have you discussed this with him? Are you - or is he - going through a bad time in something outside of the relationship, that is making it difficult for either of you to relax into it. Have the two of you moved in different directions since you got together? Are your friends telling you stories of non-stop sex that are getting you anxious for your own ends? :-) By the way, we each of us live many times more than once, but that's another story. :-)
free spirit - Thu Jan 27 21:43:50 2000

chris - If the only problem is lack of sex in the relationship then you should be able to find a solution. Some ways to get sex back into your relationship would be to try new sexual activities such as using other rooms or outdoors, new positions, massage, watching porn to get you going, exploring your fantasies or fetishes. If you decide that you can have others in your relationship there are also lots of options - you can each go out and get something on the side, or you could do it together as a threesome, partner swapping. Have a talk to him and see if you can work out something.
Panther - Fri Jan 28 9:31:17 2000

I just got back with my boyfriend after 12 months bein broken up. I am happy with him but i can't get this guy out of my head who i was seeing when we were broken up. I don't want to get back with him or anything but he hurt me & I can't get over being angry with hime even thought he doesnt know I exsist. I dont understand why i cant move on
Joboy - Thu Feb 3 8:52:28 2000

I'm 29, good looking, intelligent and came out over 10 years ago. Yet still I stand in a club and no one will approach me. I don't understand it.
I Don't Bite - Thu Feb 3 22:28:12 2000

I Don't Bite - Maybe they don't approach you because you don't approach them. "Should I go over and talk to him or wait till he comes and talks to me?" If everyone is standing around looking and no one approaching then nothing ever happens. I think fear of rejection is behind a lot of it.
Panther - Fri Feb 4 8:52:44 2000

Sounds very familiar to me!
Mon Feb 7 23:41:56 2000

Wow! My cat has had death threats made against him! He must be such a celebretity! Get over it J. Folks, this is what happens when love can go wrong. Protect your pussies folks.
FAB time on the scene with Mom - Tue Feb 8 0:48:19 2000

"Friendship not marriage" is how I heard one church leader recently say how the church can "ease" into the acceptance of gay relationships. Next I suppose they will be saying it's ok for gay people to "like" each other but not "love" each other.
Good Lord!! - Wed Feb 9 12:16:55 2000

I rang my so called boyfriend tonight to advise him that my cat had been killed. Do you know what this treasure of a man was more concerned with, telling me that he is breaking up with me. You are such a treasure Norman
John - Thu Feb 10 23:47:43 2000

Your words are in anger and bitterness John. I understand your feelings and hope you can move on and sort things out. I felt very sad for the cat when you told me what happened but you asked me if we were ending it and I told you we were. This was the only time you'd talked to me in the past week so what other way could I do it? I'll always love you and I always cared for you and breaking up is never an easy thing but you know why it had to be like this. Your anger will pass.
Heartybroken too. - Fri Feb 11 8:49:21 2000

Happy queer Valentine's Day to you all. Love and cuddles
cgb - Mon Feb 14 12:06:55 2000

Ahh, another lonely Valentines Day. What I thought was my true love is off with his real true love and here I sit wondering where my Valentine is also waiting. Sometime, in the near future I hope I will be enjoying a lovely evening with my Mr Right. In the meantime I dream, I watch and I hope for the ONE to come along.
Romantic Sucker 777 - Mon Feb 14 21:59:33 2000

I was involved in a very intense relationship where I let my heart rule and didn't really listen to my head most of the time despite the fact that it was registering "alarm bells" often. I ignored the reality for the fantasy of a romantic and lasting outcome. It ended in instability, anger, rejection, hostility and heartbreak, not a nice way to end things on the part of both parties. I suppose in a healthy relationship there is balance in all aspects of it. I had to learn a tough lesson there. Hopefully I can grow and learn from the experience and not make the same mistakes again and make the next relationship more sustainable.
New Balance - Thu Feb 17 11:17:48 2000

my man pushes me away. we're in love with each other, but i am not allowed to talk about it. he's happy the way things are. if i get "heavy" he claims i am spinning his head. well, i am cleansing myself of him little by little. i have dumped all photos, notes, etc., anything that reminds me of him. he will sow what he reaps. he will be sorry.
judy - Fri Feb 18 7:57:54 2000

New Balance I know exactly what you mean sounds exactly like me we just have to move on
Sat Feb 19 22:35:09 2000

I wish everyone on this board would use there real name so that we are more adapt to who people are
JOHN - Sun Feb 20 0:18:48 2000

One of the beautiful aspects of these Graffiti boards JOHN is the anonominity which allows people who use and browse them to express their deepest thoughts, trivial or intense, good or bad etc etc freely. If these boards were not anonymous then you probably wouldn't see too much written on them at all (and they probably wouldn't be here). I personally as a socially isolated person have found these boards very useful as a means to express myself and communicate my feelings at least in some way. The anonominity can also make the boards a "fun" thing also and I think Panther is a hero for making them available in the way they are. If you don't want to be anonymous JOHN, you don't have to. I'm glad that we have that option.
Anon. - Sun Feb 20 9:07:46 2000

I have been in a relationship for 14 months. The person who I was in it with is Manic Depressive and this week poured a bottle of alcohol over me called the police on me and refused to give my belongings back, this was after he invited me over to collect these things. I am really wanting to know if anyone else has been in a relationship with a manic depressive person and how they cope with it. I have tried writing to him but he won't reply back Call me an idiot, but I realize the person has problems and I am so much in love with him that even with all that happens I won't let go and want him back.
hb - Sun Feb 20 10:54:47 2000

Pity you are not mature enough to tell the full side of the story there hb and take some responsibility for yourself, your own actions and behaviours. I'm not going to stoop that low as I have morals and a conscience and some responsibility there now. It's a pity to also denigrate someone who does have problems and has been successfully dealing with those problems for several years, looking at himself and growing for that when you have some fairly severe difficulties yourself and are in denial about them. Pity you also can't express and declare your love and have some sense of nurturance, care, comittment and tolerance for someone you say you love so much instead of expressing the vile immature hatred, controlling manipulation, pseudo love and materialistic ideals that you have been raised with and still choose to give in to. I'm tired of being backed into corners there and then being put down by you and your partner in madness when I react under such impossible conditions. Tell everyone the full story if you wish to put me down like you do. The only one you are fooling is yourself. I accepted you for your limitations and I tried to give you the love and understanding I thought you needed because I did love you as unconditionally as anyone could. I am letting go of you and I never want you back. To be honest, you scare me more than anything now and that love that I thought would never die has. As for my own problems and limitations, I am dealing with those, learning, coping and leading a fairly normal independent and social existence. What gives you the authority to sit there and impose your diagnostic judgement on me like you do? You need help yourself there.
Insightfull - Sun Feb 20 14:19:25 2000

well at least answer your emails insightfull
hb - Sun Feb 20 14:31:34 2000

Insightfull just sent another email to you wasnt going to put anything here but you seem to read here more than your emails Take Care
HB - Sun Feb 20 18:34:15 2000

Guys, I'm puzzled. I'm in love. I'm not interested in anyone else. But friends say that it's just not feasible, that I should be prepared for the relationship to become open or an affair to eventually happen - for either of us. People say I'm 'aping a heterosexual ideal' by wishing to commit to one person. I'm not aping any culture. This is the way I feel. Anyone in similar boat?
SevenOfNine - Mon Feb 21 12:12:49 2000

SevenOfNine; Wishing to commit to one person is not neccessarily a heterosexual ideal and many theories abound re the old monogamy vs polygamy debate. They all have credence and yes we do have polygamous tendencies but that doesn't say we all want to sleep around or by any means should do so. Do what you want to do and if you feel right and comfortable with it and it's not hurting anyone or yourself then that's fine. At some stages in your relationships you may wish to explore other possibilities. There is no specific homosexual culture that you "have" to ape either and anyone that tells you that you are "aping" some or other culture may be trying to stereotype you into aping a culture that they feel comfortable themselves with. Be yourself and do what you feel is good for you. Ultimately that's what is important. Perhaps if your relationship isn't working you may need to explore the possibility of another relationship which is not easy but sometimes works out better longer term. I'm quite happy myself to commit to one person if I was in a relationship that worked so you are not alone or "weird" for your feelings.
Out and Proud and being Myself - Mon Feb 21 13:10:17 2000

SevenofNine - your friends are themselves probably missing being in love and having a touch of jealousy. Ignore them. If you want to commit to one person, then that's wonderful, enjoy it. There is no right and wrong in a relationship, it's what feels right for the two of you. Many would say this: that if you have sex with someone else, outside of the relationship, then you are giving yourself in a small way to the third party; that as soon as this happens, then a part of the closeness that you once had is prejudiced, no matter whether it was agreed between you that it would happen. Take it easy and share your thoughts completely with your partner.
Free Spirit - Mon Feb 21 19:08:14 2000

So well said Free Spirit. Perhaps one of the many (and I mean many) reasons that make (what seems to me anyway) the majority of same sex relationships so difficult to sustain long term in the GLBT community is that both partners involved are so reluctant to give their all to their relationships. This notion of free and polygamous love was tested in the 60's and 70's and I don't think it worked then and I believe the statistics show it doesn't really work now. I think many GLBT persons are fooling themselves that monogamy and commitment is a "heterosexual ideal" that shouldn't be applied to this community. Perhaps many heterosexual couples are now aspiring to these other alternative ideals which is also why the statistics point towards increased instability in these relationships (obviously there are other sound reasons for this too such as increased personal awareness, equality etc which are great things in relationships that are truly harmful). Perhaps true love and commitment is a scarce occurence with many in the community and there are elements of jealousy there towards those that do reach that state. As you said, there are no real rights and wrongs and sharing thoughts and emotions is so important. Good luck SevenOfNine and I hope things work well for you and your partner.
Me - Mon Feb 21 21:00:32 2000

Very kind words from you all. Thanks. I don't feel as alone in my thoughts as I believed I was. I love my Steve!!
SevenOfNine - Mon Feb 21 21:28:57 2000

"We are all but mere washing machines, operating on different cycles" An original quote inspired by Miss Balls. Do you think that the publishers of those little calendars would want to publish in next years run?
Iron Styne - Tue Feb 22 1:16:06 2000

How do you ever get over being dumped, is there any books to help you along
heartbroken - Tue Feb 22 14:31:02 2000

Heartbroken - Last night Tina C suggested that you buy one of her records and listen to it. Afterwards you will still feel rotten, but Tina C will have shared her love with you for that time. Also, crying is good, especially on shoulders of friends (always make sure you have friends - even in the heights of a relationship). Also, try to go out and do things you enjoy (or used to). You may surprise yourself and find you are enjoying them.
Panther - Wed Feb 23 9:15:54 2000

Who is tina c?
hb - Wed Feb 23 10:07:04 2000

It's difficult when there are few friends if any there to offer a shoulder to cry on. It's also hard to have to end a relationship that was full of hope and love because it hurt too much, seemed to have the whole world against it, became emotionally complex and created so much angst. It's worse also when the two broken hearts know they still want each other and love each other.
Heartbroken "dumper" - Wed Feb 23 10:56:45 2000

Heartbroken "dumper" "...when the two broken hearts know they still want each other and love each other." So why end it, then?
Free Spirit - Wed Feb 23 19:49:39 2000

www.tinac.net
Panther - Wed Feb 23 20:52:48 2000

Free Spirit; After finally talking to each other again face to face we have both come to that same conclusion. We have both realised just how much we do love each other and that through thick and thin what we feel for each other is incredibly strong and positive. We can work through the resistance, dissaproval (which we now realise stems from jealousy from others who see how strong that bond is between us), complexity and occassional angst together and attempt to deal with it positively. We are still on a big learning curve after 14 months of an incredibly complex (but wonderful) relationship. Together and every bit in love and happy together with each other as when it began after 14 months. We are both planning for long term but we both know we have some work ahead of us to achieve stability. We both feel we will get there and our broken hearts are beating together again. We never stopped loving each other the whole time.
True love; the glue that won't come unstuck. - Thu Feb 24 9:52:57 2000

As a postscript to above also, we both need to lighten up a bit and enjoy ourselves a bit more which I resolve to do. Things get so serious at times it becomes scary. I think this graffiti board has helped us a lot to try and stay in touch at times when we couldn't do it any other way and also vent some of our anger and just share with others. Thanks Panther for providing it. You don't know how valuable it's been. TinaC looks a real hoot too!
I love my man - Thu Feb 24 10:20:19 2000

I love you free fm.
Craig Payne (sarcasm) - Fri Feb 25 21:42:54 2000

How do you ever get over beeing rejected as a poss.regular `friend`for sex and more,if you are ok for sex on a quickie base(once only ) ? Newtown asks Redfern and the rest of the world !
Harry - Mon Feb 28 14:42:56 2000

2 wheels , I meant you !
Mon Feb 28 14:44:58 2000

Harry Some people are heartless bastards and therefore not worth it. But that shouldn't be the main reason to let go. What should be is that everyone is able and is free to make their own decisions, and should have those decisions respected. Put yourself in his position: if for some reason you didn't want someone you'd just had sex with to become a regular f**k buddy, even though the other man wanted that, you'd want to be able to say no, unimpeded. It's the same for him.
Also, what will happen if you face a situation of unrequited love? You'll think that what's happening now is a breeze!
Free Spirit - Mon Feb 28 17:26:56 2000

Well, Free Spirit, I'm one of those heartless bastards. Love is a commodity which none of us can afford. Sex is nothing but an ablution befitting that of a public lavatory. Once you're in you do your bussiness, then when you finish, yuo flush, andwash your hands of it. No names, no numbers, no mess!!
poolooluen - Mon Feb 28 22:05:52 2000

poolooluen - Love had been commoditized, but it is not a commodity. Neither is sex just a bodily function. I hope one day you get to find out the difference.
Panther - Tue Feb 29 9:27:24 2000

I second that Panther. One piece of advice: if you are in love with someone don't tell the gay community (or lesbian community in fact) because they will rip it down due to their so called sad experiences. Yeah right like we have not been hurt. So many on this wall have seen the hurt side of love. Ok yeah it sucks big time but to exhibit total rejection of future love, including the self, seems to me to negate us as human beings. So if you fall in love don't tell your friends or the Wickham/Oxford/Chapel Street/Mars Bar etc etc crowd because they will rip out your soul and try to stop you from getting one of the most important things in your life. Love and if they don't like it because they got hurt walk away from them and love the person you want to be with.
Mike - Tue Feb 29 22:44:09 2000

My experience of the various gay scenes in Australia has been a little different. I always seem to meet guys who want husbands, and the community hasn't really had a positive or negative effect on their resolve or mine to continue the relationship. Now, if only I could resolve my own internal uncertainties . . .
Devil's Felch - Tue Feb 29 22:52:41 2000

Poolooluen:you sound very jaded.
Wed Mar 1 16:48:21 2000

Have we all noticed the many letters to the editor(s) lately from people concerned at the shallowness of our scene. Beautiful city, ugly queens. Maybe if we all started giving a damn about each other, we may find happiness within as well. Go Sydney - you are rapidly disappearing up your own selfish little arseholes!
Wed Mar 1 19:47:17 2000

Hello good people. May I have some advice from you. I met this great guy last year and we became pretty close; I would say best friends. Sadly I feel in love with him, but I guess I also "love him" as in like a friend, if it was more it would be great but ok its not so why fret? Anyway he found out and we had a talk and I guess for a while I was a little obessed but that seemed to change. I love this guy a lot. But he went through a similiar experience the difference being the guy he had a crush on left Brisbane to live in Melbourne. Now he acts a bit strange like last night we were at a party and he firstly ignored me and then when I was dancing with his female best friend who is now my friend he stormed out of the room. When he left he said make sure you call me and come out with me next Saturday. He is a very busy person as I am now and I don't feel an overwhelming urge to call him every day. But I just don't understand his behaviour. We go from a civil conversation then he starts ranting about how he wants a husbane but then he got aggressive when I started talking about this guy who asked me out. All I want is this: I want my best friend back not necessarily at my expense but I know it will take time and patience to gain his trust back. Its crazy to be crucified for loving someone but it seems to be as these boards sound out you get in trouble for loving someone but its easy to hate. I love him, I want peace with him and I care about him. Any advice you all can give would be appreciated but I will tell you know I am not giving up on him but letting go of him is easy. In fact I think the letting go has caused problems. Anyway thanks in advance if anyone knows why he does not want a relationship which is fine yet gets wants to see me then please comment. Thanks
Paul - Sun Mar 5 19:22:56 2000

Paul - All I can suggest is that you find somewhere comfortable when you are both calm and sober and have a big talk. Maybe agree that you will both hear each other out. If he is a best friend then you should be able to talk. Maybe you will decide that you both need space for a while, or you will sort things out. Maybe you will have trouble telling each other what you are really feeling. Communication is hard, you both need to work at it.
Panther - Tue Mar 7 12:50:21 2000

Thanks the space idea is looking like the answer.
Paul - Tue Mar 7 18:26:16 2000

Paul - oo-eck! To add to what Panther wrote...a decent relationship with this guy is going to be tough if he gets jealous so easily and aggressive with it. Some people are naturally jealous, it's part of their make up, Taureans in particular. You come across as the opposite, just loving and open. He seems confused, basically - you said he ranted about wanting a husband, yet he doesn't want a relationship. Some people just don't know what to do when love comes into the picture. It's so foreign to them that they take months to allow into their hearts a feeling that others can accept in days or even hours. They feel it, they know they want it, yet it frightens them. They let their head rule. The only solution then is space, though the cynic in me who's been hurt by that sort might say don't bother, see someone else quickly! Think it all through, but listen to your heart, and when you have a good talk, try to suggest the same to him.
Free Spirit - Tue Mar 7 22:00:02 2000

Actually Free Spirit I am Taurus and can see I got jealous but could snap myself out of it very quickly. The problem is this getting rid of him or letting go if its kinder. I mean I am friends with his friends and one in particular this girl and I have a great friendship going. Secondly its the guilt factor: is this obsessive love? Is it unhealthy? Why can't we still be friends? Does he have power over me? Come on sure it goes around and round in my head therefore its obsessive but isn't it time to move on. What I mean is, ok I made a mistake telling him I love, yes I admit to clinger to mother for most of my life and attracting unavailable men, whoever they are. My point is I struggle because I have to use the cliche gotten a life and my days of obsession, unhealthy relationships are dwindling. This is like alcoholism you fall off the wagon but you get up quicker. For example I met up with a guy I was obsessed with in 1996 and we had sex and it was like oh this was really nice, good to see you bye. Simply put we acted like human beings something rare, for me once it was, in obsessive relationships. The other point is does this guy have power over me; yes and no. When I act what we term healthy, ie leave him to do what we has to do without controlling I suddenly cop the opposite problem. He starts wanting my attention. I thought when you let go and move on the thing gets better. I am also starting to see the meaness of the love affection's object. Has anyone read The Miller's Tale in the Canterbury Tales. She treats the love lorn knight like crap, he gets her years later and does not really want her. This whole thing is complex: I want his friendship but I am not willing to be manipulated. But am I being manipulted? I am obessive but isn't it time to let go of that? Anyway to Free Spirit and Panther thanks for the advice space seems to be the thing to do and at this stage I am going to do this. After reading some of the above postings I conclude that the amount of guilt placed on us because we love someone is stupid and unhealthiness is in the eye of the beholder. Delusion, denial? Idealism? Sure but if I can see someone or in fact a couple of guys I was once in love with and its like best mates years after the fact then there is hope here. Thanks for letting me rave on because I am getting sick of being blamed by self and society (generally) because I love. He doesn't want me? Oh well his loss. Thanks guys for the advice it helps to release all this stuff and get on with the "real" world.
Paul - Wed Mar 8 9:21:03 2000

All men are bastards
turning straight - Wed Mar 8 21:10:22 2000

I find it interesting that it was mentioned that if you tell the object of your unrequirted, unreturned love whatever it is that they will control you and dangle you on a string. Whilst not all guys are like that I suggest to anyone to be on the lookout for this. The guy I had an experience has a guy who he says is wrapped around his little finger. I only now notice how he enjoys toying with emotions. You know we cry over a guy or girl and yet later we find out what they are like. Does anyone think that unrequited love is really life's way of protecting us from total utter creeps? Based on what I have seen lately I say yes.
Control your Controller - Wed Mar 8 23:18:25 2000

Control your controller: What you say could be true but what of the scenario where your unrequited love maybe is not aware (or assertive or receptive or whatever) of your love and literally caves in to you on finding out (and they all lived happily ever after etc etc). I think it would be very difficult to generalise about this topic. There are too many reasons why love can be unrequited and as people we are all so different. Maybe "love" involves an element of being controlled and controlling in any relationship (as perhaps so many other emotional based traits). If it's lifes way of protecting us from utter creeps then wouldn't it much simpler for "life" to have us not fall in love with them at all? Love is an emotion in my mind so any "love" we have will involve some play or toying with emotions. We all "want" the love of our lives and will play games within reason to get what we want. It's the reason or commonsense factor that determines how much we get hurt in the end.
I can relate to what you say. - Thu Mar 9 12:07:14 2000

Re the last two postings tend to agree with both. I think this illustrates balance in life. For example, we end friendships or we move from Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Australia but I think its unreasonable to say oh this is forever. Control I had the same issues with my guy he lives in Brisbane and his friend now lives in Sydney. Yet this guy in Bris commands the guy in Sydney: he told me so. I had this enormous crush on this guy in 96 and I went ballistic: phone number changes, nervous breakdowns et al. I wanted him so badly. Anyway a week ago (and this proves my point to an extent that moving on and letting go is fine but life sometimes has other ideas), I met up with him. We had sex, we laughed, spent time and I went home happy and satisfied that I did not have to stay with him. I also agree with the reply I guess even in 50 to 60 year marriages there are elements of control and co-dependancy, enabling and all the so called evils and emotional baggage. (Does anyone think this is overrated or normal?) Nevertheless the advice of Panther, the owner of this site I presume, is right. Space. Now this is turning into a problem: I have to create some space so I can get over this, get the life whatever but his friends are my friends. These issues are very complex but I guess I have learnt things from this. I only hope I get past this stage, as I guess some of you on this board have. I just hope its sooner not later. Thanks.
Paul - Thu Mar 9 16:53:01 2000

I happened to find this today and am fascinated by all this rubbish. Now don't get me wrong you all have good points but here is mine. Unwanted love is crap. If he/she/it and/or job/possession/house is not meant to be yours too bad. Live with it. But like an above posting says forever is a long time and you might just end up with he/she et al. You may not want them after all, but, maybe you do. To Paul re baggage, I spent years on self-help books and I don't regret a thing but I am really really really tired of blaming myself for falling in love with those that don't want me. Yeah ok sure there are things in me that attract it but age does bring wisdom and personally I find they do take power over you. Paul you read the Miller's Tale too. There are many other examples in literature and the poor victim, you and I, shed tears whilst he is buried to the nuts in some 18 yo. Well I think its time we took back our power. Unrequited love be damned I ain't no fatal attraction. If anyone who is on the receiving end reads these walls and condems, controls or manipulated the one who loves you think twice. You may want Mr Perfect one day and he will flick you away with his finger whilst you sulk in the suburbs. Take back your power people, cut off or as suggested make "space" from your beloved, see and do other things and keep saying to yourself your lovable and its him that can't live without you. Viva revolution and catch the wind its more interesting than him (her it et al)
Fatal Non-Attraction - Thu Mar 9 18:53:48 2000

There's really only one kind of love worth having, and that's unconditional love. And that means having no control over your loved one, and therefore that means that if the one you love is exercising or trying to exercise control over you, then you have to do something about the situation. The best relationship of all will exist where neither party has any expectation about the relationship, none at all.

I was once in a situation of unrequited love, and it was unbelievably awful. I was completely heartbroken, even though I can now see very clearly that he wasn't right for me. But at the time: all my friends were telling me to forget him, but I couldn't, and so I wasted such a lot of time and made myself into an emotional wreck in the process. But I had to learn that it was allright to love and to lose that love, knowing that in the grand scheme of things that is life, it would all work out right in the end. It was an important lesson. Now, I do know and I do accept that it will all work out right, and that's giving me the freedom to be more relaxed about life, to enjoy the ride. It's great! I know that I'll meet the right one, and that when that happens, I'll *know*, probably straightaway. I think that that can be the same for everyone.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 10 7:23:18 2000

Sure Free Spirit but are you open to the possibilty that if this man was not right for me if suddenly he arrives again and oh goodness me he was Mr Right after all? Yes of course you are correct in all the above postings but what I am saying is I may let go of the love that does not want me but if he comes back (and yes one did and we are now fantastic friends and very close) then great. All I am saying is unconditional love is the best but it just that too many dramas are created over the ones we want. Fatal non-attraction is blunt and a little over the top but I too am tired of the worry and stress. If he does not want you then its their problem. This in all 12 step programmes and New Age madness seems to be forgotten. Sure its our responsibility to get over this but constant blaming of self over this is the real enemy not Mr Perfect who is so up himself he can't recognise real love. Also if unwanted love happens why not go after love later in life after the pain goes away? Please remember all perhaps it is all for the best but then again if he/she comes back or later in life they end up your friend or something don't shut the door. Fatal I think your correct: this is overrated, and it is time for positive depections of unrequited love where the one in love is seen simply as someone of value. So your in love with the unattainable. If he is unattainable then he (or she) is basically creating a barrier because they can't love. If they do this then get yourself someone else because falling in love with the so-called wrong person is getting boring. Personally I am glad people are writing on this wall showing another side because I too am tired of the unattainable he/she/it exercising power. Go Fatal.
Control your Controller - Fri Mar 10 17:02:27 2000

Wow people who have seen the light.
Sat Mar 11 20:48:10 2000

I absolutely agree. I got sick of getting my heart broken and read all those new age books, "you can heal your life", "women who love too much" etc etc. Who says it's your own fault if you 'attract' these people into your life??? I tell you, they all seem normal at first, and then once they have you hooked they turn into nighmares. Those books make you feel needy and inadequate on top of your feelings of hurt and rejection. I think sometimes they do more harm than good. And what's this crap about forgiveness? That you should forgive all the ones who hurt you, because they are only "doing the best way they know how". Bullsh*t! Some people are just plain bad, some people go out of their way to do horrible things just so they can get some power trip out of it. They're the sick ones, the crippled ones, not the people who already know how to love. Someone should write a book on "how to get over your inner bastard"
nik - Tue Mar 14 8:41:20 2000

That's spot on Nik. I do think forgiving is the key to happiness but having said that you are 100 percent correct in your statements. You see I believe that we do attract people including creeps into our life but not 100 percent all the time and we are not always to blame. These books whilst they did help me need to be questioned: simply put nik you are right: they foster self-blame. Sometimes it is the other person not always us. Thanks for stating a point of view that is balanced becuase new age people tend to be too obsessed with karma and its all your fault you asked for it. That may be true but not in every case. Being a victim is ok sometimes and whilst I followed quite a lot of these books and took responsibility for myself I now believe I did not attract every single thing. If a comet decided to hit earth how did I attract it? Did I need to have such an experience of annilation. No! I may not be a victim but I defend other's right to be if they want. Good points Nik
Mike - Tue Mar 14 12:59:10 2000

Well, I don't know about forgiveness being the key to happiness. I used to feel incredibly guilty and un-evolved for not being able to forgive those who 'done me wrong' but now I have reclaimed my unforgiving nature. It's who i am and it makes me strong - and it ensures that those people will never, ever find a chink in my armour again. I feel that if I forgive them, they have won. It's not that I spend all day seething about the past, because now I am in a very happy, wonderful relationship - and sometimes I do stop and think that it may not have happened, had I not met with these 'baddies' in the first place - but it allows me to walk along with my head held high, knowing that they will never know how much they hurt me, or what I think and feel, and they can never touch me again. The gay/lesbian community being what it is, I run into 'them' from time to time and now I look them in the eye, knowing that I have the moral high ground and I'm not going to lay like a dog at their feet waiting for them to throw me a bone!!
nik - Tue Mar 14 15:39:35 2000

Cool it, guys! You're trying to fight the Law of Attraction, and you just can't. It's real and it exists. It means that those of one energy level will attract into their lives those of a similar energy level. If you're going to set out to be unforgiving, then you have to expect to meet some bastards. Look at it this way: haven't you met, by "chance", people with very similar interests and views to you? There's no chance involved: it's the Law of Attraction at work, and there is *nothing* you can do to stop it. It's great, really: the nice guys get the nice guys. Nik, I don't understand. What makes you think that if you don't forgive, you have the moral high ground? :-)

The same can be said of karma. What goes around comes around. Again, there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. It should be welcomed, as once you realise it's strength, you can work with it and bring goodness back to you.

If you read a new age or self-help book and you think that it's demeaning you or fostering self-blame, then you're reading the wrong one or maybe your attitude towards it is wrong. If a book is *making* you feel guilty, then put it away or chuck it out, as it's no good for you or anyone. Guilt - leave it out. But please don't leave spirituality aside just because at this moment or with this book it doesn't seem to fit.
Free Spirit - Tue Mar 14 22:30:01 2000

Karma is rubbish. There are plenty of good people who have had bad things happen to them, and plenty of bad people who have had so many good things happen to them. "Karma" is just a defense mechanism that we use to kid ourselves that everything will turn out alright in the end.
Tue Mar 14 22:48:24 2000

i agree
Wed Mar 15 8:18:29 2000

So Free spirit, what you're saying is that we should forgive those that are bastards to us? Isn't that kind of like endorsing their behaviour? So if I go up to one of the bastards and say "Hi how are you? how's life?" etc. Am I not really saying "you treated me like sh*t but that's ok i forgive you, it's OK to treat people like sh*t"? I consider myself a nice person and definitely did not, I feel, deserve to "attract" these negative poeple in my life, the unforgiving nature came afterwards. The forgiving and moral high ground have nothing to do with each other. I feel I have the moral high ground because I DO - they were bastards and I was not - end of story. Believe me, I have tried the forgiving approach, have tried to make overtures at friendship with varying results. The most common being that the person in question believes that you still have feelings for them, and treats you with disdain or ignores you so you don't 'get the wrong idea'. Chrrrrrriiissssstttt!!! How humiliated do you want to be?? The Louise Hays of the world have a lot to answer for. One of her pieces of advice is to send out vibes of lurve to the ones who hurt you. Now why would anyone want to do that if: a) you're trying to get over them; b) Likely to have that love used as a weapon against you? I don't think sooooooooooo.
nik - Wed Mar 15 8:32:24 2000

Perhaps instead of trying to consciously "forgive or not forgive" someone for hurting us, we could truly say we are "over them" or the experience when we reach indifference about it. Time and moving on, finding someone else, getting out and living your own life etc seems to help us to do that. Holding grudges, inner hatred, wanting revenge, and even submission to me says we are still affected by a bad experience and haven't really let go or perhaps moved on. These feelings only lead to emotional problems for the holder of these feelings long term. As for Karma, I think that concept (along with spritual intervention or justice) is a bit of a defence mechanism that I'm not really into. I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions and destiny and I respect others views on these spiritual matters but I don't personally go with them. There are bastards in this world and there are nice people too (as are many in between). The world is full of all types, that's what makes it interesting. Not all bastards will get their come uppance but I don't want to become a bastard myself just to make the bastards out there feel miserable. Deep down, they are people with problems and feelings too.
Sated - Wed Mar 15 9:43:56 2000

Ad deleted.

yes girls don't do that sort of thing do they
Wed Mar 15 10:16:11 2000

Free Spirit I am not actually saying that you are totally incorrect. There is a Law of Attraction and Karma but what people don't realise is that it is not always the case. How can you say I attract a truck to run me over and then turn around and say "oh he/she/it had to have that expereience". What about AIDS: sorry but I don't believe most if not all have to have that happen to spiritually grow. Another thing that does not always work is to run around saying "oh I am beautiful, I am rich I am healthy" and suddenly your in debt, broken up or lying in hospital and you new ages say "oh its your subconscious". My point and this does relate to love is that sure we attract: I don't doubt that but Free Spirit it is not always our fault. It may be my responsibility for most things and I am quite happy to take that but to say everything is my creation, doing etc and its always karma to me is wrong. Sometimes other people and the government, landlord, other person are at fault. Finally this crap about being jealous. Its all good and well to run around looking at happy gay or hetro couples or North shore houses and say "oh I can have that" and then you are still in debt and poor. You can think all you like about meeting Mr Right or living in a mansion by saying affirmations for years but FS do you? I doubt it. I have met Louise Hay I don't doubt she is mostly right but to say blanket statements like its karma, you asked for it (what Free Spirit are you saying people ask for Aids?) and don't be jealous even if your boss is sailing the harbour while you slave at work (these are just examples) or when the hetro couple in front of you at the movies have their tongues down each other's throats and you can't even hold hands with your male date. My whole point in all this is balance and frankly Nik has the right idea in reclaiming a right to be non-forgiving. New Age is ok but that everything is our fault is not. Finally I must state this is not bitterness just my views and I am just glad others are sensible about life and not always going on spritually trips that can't be quantified.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 11:10:23 2000

Free Spirit, Looks like you've made the connection. You GO girl :)))
oprah(surname witheld) - Wed Mar 15 14:04:27 2000

Yes Mike, I agree. i don't really think you attract bad things into your life. 'Sometimes bad things happen to good people' is phrase that seems to be in vogue at the moment. I think you can look back at a bad experiences and think 'Wow I lived through that'. It can give you a sense of pride in your survival skills and a yardstick by which you can measure your progress. Experience is valuable, and events that happen to you - good or bad - teach you about life and your abilities. You can be attracted to a certain type of person which is probably why repeat opffenders may seem to recur in one's life - but I don't think its because bad people purposely seek you. I'm not looking at these 'bastards' in a purely negative way, after all, it was all the bad experiences which pushed me into the arms of the kind, loving, giving, individual that I am with now. It would be nice to believe that if you put your trust in the universe, it will all turn out to be all right. I think this a purely western luxury, as I think people living in starvation and disease in 3rd world countries may beg to differ. Those books can be useful but they seem to encourage you to walk arouind in a self-induced state of euphoric ignorance. I can see where they're coming from with forgiveness but in all truth, doesn't everybody get that stab of annoyance and the 'I've been f*cked over' feeling when faced with an ex? Maybe the new agers haven't met with the same type of people, or their 'everything's cool' trance makes them shut their eyes to it. It's new age-ism, not religion that is the new panacea of the masses. Also, I don't doubt that the 'bastards' have feeling and problems as well, but I won't be crying into my beer for them any time soon, as their feelings and problems are probably of a very egocentric nature. The difference between us and them is: we do our best to solve our problems without hurting other human beings and they make themselves feel in control by taking it out on the rest of the world.
nik - Wed Mar 15 14:07:03 2000

Exactly nik these are the sort of things I believe too.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 17:31:45 2000

Exactly Nik I agree with the above.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 17:50:31 2000

By forgiving someone you're not condoning their behaviour. You don't have to say anything or even be in the same city or even continent to send out love vibes to someone.

Briefly, Mike said "You can think all you like about meeting Mr Right or living in a mansion by saying affirmations for years but FS do you? I doubt it." No? OK, in the past few weeks I've made (a) the closest of friends, who started off as a love interest, who I share a great deal of things with, and (b) a wonderful man, who I share even more in common with. We're very much in love. Sorry, I'm a bit pushed for time - he's gonna call. But as you can tell, both of these are the sweetest of men. I've made a lot of friends in the past few months who are both spiritual and gay, and lesbian too. Oh, and thanks, Oprah! :-)
Free Spirit - Wed Mar 15 21:40:55 2000

Well FS thats great good on you. You do sound like a great guy from your cyber postings and I don't doubt that affirmations or whatever work for you. But they don't for everyone. There are lots on this board who have been hurt and I do agree with Nik about attraction. My point is that it works for you FS and that's great you have found men. But it does not work for everyone and although (for example in 12 step programs) we have a desire to share our knowledge that has brought us happiness if its god or going to the gym or just simple affirmations. But part of that to me is accepting others have a different path and beliefs and part of that is that they don't believe in karma or they believe, with our without being a "victim" (an overused term if ever there was one) and they attract wrong people or get beaten up. Like Nik said you meet them and they are fine but it starts, the crap. For someone to say oh its the law of attraction your subconscious mind attracted it is wrong to me, but not necessarily false. We want partners and we deserve them, there is enough learning from the wrong ones. Anyway Free Spirit I hope you are happy, I really do because I am not attacking you just saying that people like Nik or Fatal or Sated or whoever have a different view and life is unfair sometimes or all the time and we have the right to feel sorry for ourselves without condeming. That's why people write on this wall, to understand why they feel bad over a broken love affair. Anyway I would like to thank all for contributing on this time for me to change channel and give others a chance at posting because their are people out there hurting over love. If you are just don't be hard on yourselfs and clog yourselves up with self-blame from others who have seen the light. Good luck and love to all.
Mike - Wed Mar 15 22:49:24 2000

How refreshing to come back to this wall and see people with non love sick views. Being in love is great but all the baggage: no thanks.
Paul - Thu Mar 16 9:44:35 2000

Free Spirit:Re your comment that Taureans are jealous.Not so darling.You have been reading to many glossy mag star guides.In fact Taureans are often very possesive.They like to own things.Possesiveness and jealousy are two quite distinct things.
Thu Mar 16 9:52:01 2000

If anything Taureans are the least jealous people I have met.
Thu Mar 16 17:22:47 2000

Well thanks, guys, that's good news if correct. I'm expecting to meet one, "the big one", one day. It does say that (jealous) about them in many different character guides, but three have said it aint so I'll defer! Although - aren't possessiveness and jealousy very closely related?
This *isn't* a personal, but if anyone wants to continue the kind of discussions that we've been having here by email or whatever, then that'd be cool. innerpeace@one.net.au.
Free - Thu Mar 16 20:20:28 2000

I don't feel FS that I am jealous or possessive all the time but I do admit that it is a Taurus trait. I have been that way but these days tend not to be. The universe apparently does not like jealous humans which is of course society's way of saying "oh look you can't have that job, guy, money etc etc but you have to be happy for them or else here's a car crash for you." Which is fair but has anyone had their face rubbed in it by the person who got the guy or the job you want? Still again FS I can't always say everything about karma and stuff is wrong. Sometimes if you are in love with someone its best not to tell too many people: I have noticed how many gay guys and some lesbians try to interfere and break up couples. I have also seen this succeed and its not good. Good luck FS with your guys thats great.
Mike - Fri Mar 17 10:09:10 2000

Well I've got a bit of a confession. I'm a taurus too. LOL
nik - Fri Mar 17 10:33:52 2000

maybe the universe just has it in for the bulls!!
nik - Fri Mar 17 10:34:31 2000

It depends what you mean by Jealousy.In relationships I would think it is around not wanting your partner to persue other friendships or not wanting your partner spending time with other people.I am a Taurean and not only do I not mind but I encourage my partner to have friendships with others.I am not jealous of these relationships or the time he spends with other friends. I feel secure with my partner and trust that he feels the same with me so there is no need for jealousy. If however someone tries to "move in" on my partner my possesiveness would be quickly activated.This does seem to happen on occaisions when I am out with him as some people seem to have no respect for the fact that two people might be in a relationship with one another and can quite blatantly make a pass at one of them My reaction in these situations may stem from possesiveness but not from jealousy. Does this make sense?
Non Jealous Taurean - Fri Mar 17 11:36:33 2000

I think that Taurenas are more likely to go out and get what they want rather then wasting time being envious of others.
Fri Mar 17 12:28:34 2000

non-jealous, you hit the nail on the head there!
nik - Fri Mar 17 12:52:54 2000

Ohmigod! We're surrounded by Taureans! :-)
Non-jealous, you do make sense. Mike, all the best to you too. And to Nik, with your love.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 17 18:35:21 2000

Thanx FS, all the best 2U2!
nik - Fri Mar 17 20:00:48 2000

Hmmmm - I've just been thinking about this and the penny has dropped. Not about Taureans and jealousy or possessiveness, but this: you two guys who've been throwing out doubts about new age stuff are Taureans, right? Taureans being those most bemused by, yes, new age stuff. Thinking about my future, er...do I really need to be *that* grounded? :-))) There's no need to answer... :-) Have fun, everyone.
Free Spirit - Fri Mar 17 21:41:01 2000

Astrology has absolutely no scientific basis. The surgeon who delivered you has more gravitational pull than where any of the planets are at that time. I can't believe that it is the year 2000 and people are still believing hocus-pocus like this.
Sat Mar 18 8:36:03 2000

The fact that astrology has no scientific basis *under known science* is irrelevant. Fifty years ago the internet had no scientific basis. Yet someone could have put the wires and everything else together and it would have worked *even then*. The technical facts about it *already existed*, they were waiting to be found. Australia wasn't *discovered* by Cook or whoever, it was waiting to be found. Outside of the rubbish that is the daily forecasts in the papers, astrology works. Our scientists are unable to explain why - yet.
There is a well-known survey conducted by a French team, that set out to prove what anonymous wanted us to believe. They looked at the birthdates and occupations of over a million people, found strong correlations all over the place and had to eat their words.
The science we have on this planet is very very basic in comparison to that elsewhere, as is the way we treat our fellow beings. But with ever-increasing rapidity we are advancing and more of us are coming round to the idea that love is always the answer. These are wonderful times. Peace.
Free Spirit - Sat Mar 18 9:23:01 2000

The surgeon who delivered me is unable to make the oceans of the world rise and fall.This is done by the pull of the moon.Perhaps the surgeon who delivered you was the man in the moon!The world wasn't flat until it was discovered to be round.It was always round.It is extremely arrogant to belive that nothing exists unless humans know about it or to belive that at this point of time human knowledge is absolute.If everyone believed this there would never have been a quest for knowledge.
Moonbaby - Sat Mar 18 12:47:21 2000

Its not so much doubts that karma or things are real its just that I don't always believe Karma is responsible for everything. What concerns me is explanation: why bad things happen to those who serve and care whilst evil people live on. Maybe one day we will be told. Also why do we want love yet it alludes us? I think as good as astrology is to sit around going I can't date him he is a Leo, Virgo or whatever is self-defeating and limiting. FS let us know how your friends are going!
Mike - Sat Mar 18 13:53:38 2000

Mike, the thing about karma is that knowing that it happens, it's unnecessary to think that evil people live on. Everyone lives on, but karma happens, and even if you can't see someone getting back what they've just given out, it really does happen. The universal mind sorts it out.
I don't know why bad things just seem to happen either, although maybe I've just answered that question! Just recently, I had a good pushbike stolen. I've no idea why this bad thing happened. Strangely, getting on for a year ago, I had a reading in which the loss of my bike was forecast. For months after, I was really careful with it, then in the last few months I'd forgotten all about what I had been told.
Why do we all want to love and be loved? That's why we're here, to learn to love.
I know several instances of real solid love affairs where in theory the two shouldn't match, if star signs are taken into account. The guy I'm in love with - he's an Aquarian and I'm a Piscean. Theoretically, he should be scared of my intensity, but in reality he's *very* loving as well and it's happened very quickly. I've no doubt that in the great scheme of things, we were meant to meet. Life's good.
Free Spirit - Sat Mar 18 14:51:14 2000

To do a chart comparison between two people it is necessary to have a complete and accurate chart for both people. There are ten planets or luminaries and twelve houses that they can be in and this is just the beginning. A huge emphasis has been put on Sun Signs in popular astrology. It is not enough to just say I'm a taurus and your an Aries so we cant relate. The purpose of astrology and looking at charts is to help with understanding others, their energies and oneself. Two people may have sun signs that are not completly compatable but may have other factors in their charts (moon signs or placements of venus, mars and saturn in particular) That will overide non compatable sun signs.Using sun signs to not relate to people is a missuse of astrological analysis.All people of all sunsigns may have valuable things to teach us.
Moonbaby - Sat Mar 18 15:11:32 2000

Free Spirit I am sorry about your bike. Ok Louise says that if we steal even in time from others we get karma but again could it be it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time? As much as I scoff at some things yes I do see that we are here to learn love, especially self-love.
Mike - Sat Mar 18 19:29:46 2000

I think we are getting off topic.
Panther - Sat Mar 18 20:12:49 2000

More like getting off the planet.
Sat Mar 18 20:55:29 2000

Move this rubbish to the Off Topic Wall
Sat Mar 18 20:56:58 2000

The Off Topic Wall is the home of snide remarks. This one is the Love Graffiti Wall.
Sat Mar 18 22:49:41 2000

And hocus-pocus trying to get everyone to fit into a little box determined by the date of your birth. This is as bad as the Churches condemnation of homosexuals based on the writings from a bunch of repressed homophobes from two millenia ago.
This wall has gone to crap - Sun Mar 19 11:30:03 2000

Oh like sorry for trying to tell people that love does not need to be a battlefield Panther and self-esteem issues and self-love are important. Back to "oh he doesn't love me, where's the pills"
Mike - Sun Mar 19 17:47:59 2000

He meant all the off-topic stuff about starsigns
Sun Mar 19 18:32:07 2000

There have been periods of a week or more when no-one has put anything on this wall.
Apologies if this piece *seems* off topic to some (thought it's about love), but it wouldn't be right to let "This wall has gone to crap"'s remarks sit there unanswered. Christ did not condemn homosexuals in any way. Christ's teachings were edited and edited and re-interpretted again and again, mixed in with some homophobia from well before his time, with the aim of controlling people through religion. Christ teachings were not in line with the religious elders of the time. Christ spoke of love.
I'm not trying to make this wall into something that it hasn't been. Apologies if the star sign stuff appeared off-topic, although to many, it is very relevant, as it's about characters, which inter-relate in relationships, and tend towards love. Love is always the answer, even for anonymous beings. [Probably a fire sign! :-) ]
Free Spirit - Sun Mar 19 22:14:30 2000

Actually I am a fire sign but I know people who share my birthday who wouldn't fit your crazy scheme. And if you knew anything about the bible you would know that Jesus didn't right any of it. His disciples (supposedly) wrote it after he'd stopped teachin/preaching and gone off and had kids with Mary.
Mon Mar 20 1:40:41 2000

My boyfriend of three years has just moved to London. He was planning to move there when we met but then just never got around to it. He has gone to learn some of those important lessons of life that you can only learn by yourself when your travelling. I sent him with my best wishes and all the love and strength in the universe but now I want him back. Being single sux. I know he will be back when the time is right and I don't want him till he has learnt those lessons but I am very lonely now. I want someone to cuddle at night, someone to look after and someone to look after me. I have had to ask for a month of no contact because every time I talk to him it emotionally takes me back to him walking through the departures gate. There is no set date for his return but it will be at least a year. I need to know how to cope in the meantime and learn to live as a single again and not wait by the door. He is staying with friends so i know he is safe and because everything is new around him it is exciting. Everything around me is a memory and while I am slowly making some changes it is not easy, it is almost like someone has died. Has anybody been through anything similar and do you have any suggestions of how to cope? BND - Tue Apr 13 9:20:11 1999 They say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That was what I wrote last year and he has been gone 12 months now. It hasn't been easy but we are still in love and that love is stronger. We have had to negotiate many things along the way but I think thats an important part of any relationship. At one stage we thought we had grown apart (see top of this wall) but seeing each other again proved that wrong. He was here for Mardi Gras and while it will always be difficult to say goodbye the growth he has made as a person and how happy that growth has made him makes the goodbyes a little easier. Perhaps I will move to London early next year, maybe it's time for me to get out of my "rut" and experiance someplace new. One thing I do know is that he is the only boy in the world for me be it here or in London. Love you DB
BND - Mon Mar 20 17:05:50 2000

Astrology, which someone was able to "right" as being *my* crazy scheme (I'd be honoured if I didn't know that it was impossible to invent it) is indeed so crazy that I was able to guess the righter's starsign correctly from two lines. End of discussion.

Mike, in answer to your request, this one is...! It's almost indescribably wonderful being in love with someone that you just can't imagine arguing with.
Free Spirit - Mon Mar 20 23:33:59 2000

If the consenses is that astrology is crap and you would rather whine on about your tragic relationships ,so be it.A better name for this wall however would be the "love addicts" wall. Wallow in it all darlings.....wallow!
Tue Mar 21 9:13:51 2000

"might as well face it, we're addicted to lllllllloooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee!" :)
nik - Tue Mar 21 18:59:17 2000

Sometimes I wish I could have a cold heartless attitude about love and affection like Tue Mar 21 9:13:51 2000 above. Sometimes I also wish I couldn't give a damn about other people and use them and abuse them without any conscience at all. Sometimes I wish I lacked any empathy and was just out for a good time in any way I could get it. Thank heavens I can't and thank heavens I've felt that indescribable touch of warmth for other peoples feelings and the arrow of cupid. Addiction maybe, but then again don't all real cold heartless queens take drugs anyway darling?
Try it someday, you may like it. - Tue Mar 21 23:36:47 2000

I don't know darling. Do they?
Wed Mar 22 21:45:56 2000

BND... strange i havent been on this board for ages, and well i come her and read your comment and think.. hey have i not read this before??? Yes well, Good luck to you both, I am half way through my LDR with my partner..... and we are doing the best that we can. u know its not easy... but i have learnt through friends and lovers of past.... You have to fly in your direction and do whats best for you, if it is meant to be, your paths will once again cross and at this point you will both know if it is "right"... It is healthy.... there is nothing productive or secure about clipping a birds wings....
The happy poof - Thu Mar 23 6:39:55 2000

LDR = long-distance relationship
Thu Mar 23 19:28:06 2000

Don't people choose a LDR so they have to avoid the reality of a real relationship. Its like the "theres only one person in the whole world for me ie. my soulmate. and I havn't found him yet or if I have he doesn't realise it or he lives on the moon so its like so hard" line of thought.Its all a way of avoiding real intimate relationships cause in reality you don't really want one but don't want to take responsibility for this fact.
Sat Mar 25 12:13:58 2000

Play it again Sam.
Ditto - Sun Mar 26 17:16:54 2000

To Sat 25 12:13:58 2000. This has not been the case for us. My BF and I were living together for 3 years before he moved to London. Since he left we have both seen other people for short periods of time (and had things been right with these people the time may have been longer). I don't feel that I am avoiding the reality of a real relationship I think we are dealing with a reality of life and that is respect for each others needs (in his case discovering himself). DB is my soulmate and I really do want an intimate relationship again but only when it is the right time for both of us.
BND - Sun Mar 26 20:52:15 2000

If thats the case BND then tell anyone who tries to tell you otherwise to p*** off. This is another example of how others try to stop you from being with the person you want.
Mon Mar 27 18:08:58 2000

But the person you want to be seems to be an unhappy person. Is this what you want? My point is that there are many many people who one can have a wonderful fulfilling relationship with. The whole "soul mate" number is a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo. Its so narrow and limiting. Surely love is not narrow and limiting.
Mon Mar 27 21:08:19 2000

Being in a LDR, I can tell anonymous that it is anything but something that is done "to avoid the reality of a real relationship." Why be down on people who love each other and only want to love each other? If you had been in a *very* close relationship, I don't think you would say that there are many other people bla di bla - in other words give up on the one you love just because s/he is a long way away. You would know and understand. Yes, some people like to be in something other than a very deep relationship. That's there choice, just as it is my choice to be in a relationship with a soul mate.
I know that my lover and I have been together before, in other times, in other lives, and that may well be the reason why we have grown so close so quickly. Please don't limit your knowledge and your understanding, anonymous. I expect some others will dismiss my beliefs, but I don't know whether they can explain this "coincidence" - why there was a rainbow at the end of the runway, that formed just as the plane was taxiing towards takeoff, this morning. My lover saw the plane I was on fly through the rainbow, after the most wonderful weekend imaginable. Our love is complete.
Free Spirit - Mon Mar 27 22:09:05 2000