Pinkboard: Coming Out Graffiti Wall 9

Well a new wall , HOW EXCITING , and I get to officially christen it so to speak ;P Oh how I remember coming out, my first night out on Oxford street ,it was certainly an eye opening experience for me. Being nearly molested by some drunken drag queen at the Albury Hotel LOL !! What about everyone else ???

Can I suggest to everyone, that the Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service can help people with coming out issues in two ways.

1 They offer anonymous and confidential telephone counselling for any issue that people would like to talk about, and

2 They run coming out groups. A mens group runs on Sundays 3-5 and women? Thursday nites. These groups unlike others are open to almost any age, and aren? for a specific number of weeks, people come to as many meetings as they want and when they feel like it, and for as long as they need to.

Try www.glcsnsw.org.au or telephone (02) 9207 2800, or toll free 1800 805 379, 4pm till midnight 7 days a week

See ya

It's all very well to say that coming out is fine, but when you're a hell of a lot more "femme" than the lesbians you know, it is pretty hard. You're not like your straight friends, but you're not like the dykes either! It seems that the "Lipstick Lesbian" is not acceptable in Sydney, at least I have not been able to find them. Are there any groups for the femme gal that welcome newbies??

Miss M, I understand perfectly. I too feel the same way about the "femme" scene in Sydney, but remember - the hardest thing is to be yourself. Each of us is unique and labels never do justice to the complexity of the human soul. Get out there and just be YOU, live every moment just being YOU. It's not your problem if others don't appreciate your uniqueness. You are not alone.

honey, Lippies do fine in Sydney. I believe the southern state (VIC) understands them better but try & try and go to events and you will be fine once you meet a few people/laydies. Test out the BumpHerBar at Burdekin on Fridays for the lippie lesbian ... the key is to get out there and be noticed. I am a long haired girly and when I came out in the 90s no-one kept their hair - now I'm well-known for it : )
trust me, you'll be fine
xox Auburn haired lippie
if you need to talk
felix_femme@telstra.com

I found (am finding) coming out very hard, in fact because of it, still not completely out. the lesbians dont want to know if you tell them you are/were straight, they think u are just "trying" it out! Not fair. Had one girl freak out on me because of it and didnt give me a chance...so, now I feel I have to lie and for the meantime say I am bisexual because i am femme and look straight! Improvise girl! Seems the best way!! Not easy but think that there are a lot more grrlys out there now that are trying to find themselves..keep the faith as they say. No labels!!

geez, seems the g+l community is just as prejudiced as the straight community!

I have only partly come out and its all I ever intend to do.. I have told those in my life that are the most important to me and I think that is personally all that matters....

Miss Mabelline... I find it disheartening that amongest the lesbian community we segregate and label and percive just in the same way as heterosexual's do when they view lesbians... I myself am a soft butch and I have many as you call "femme" friends and had several encounters...But I see variety as the spice of life, I think to seek solely a group of strictly "lipstick lesbians" is not a true way to get amongest the lesbian community. I have all sorts of friends and associates of varying "labels" and I don't look at them as my "femme" or "butch" or "tweener" friends they are all family and part of my community.........

Grrrly - I know how difficult it can be to find people you can relate to and eventually become friends with when you are just starting out. What you need to do in the meantime is make sure you are true to yourself. Put on a mask to others if that makes it easier, but don't lie to yourself.

Panther, Tx for the advice, I feel for now the little white lie seems to work best! Not pretending to be anything I am not. Having the attitude to loving people for who they are and not what sex is often hard for people to understand. Hey it took Mardi Gras long enough!!!! What with those forms they kept making you fill out. Anyway as I said 'no labels'!, however gota choose one to start with or not get accepted?? Funny old world!

Hey Firstly this is kind of weird, not that I am typing this or anything, and I am out so that isnt a problem, just I have never spoken about this to anyone before. OK I am a 18 year old guy that live on the sunny coast in QLD. As I said I am out and have lived with my ex boyfriend. EX being the problem, would it be totally screwed for me to say that I think I am screwed. Am i destant to be alone, you see I love falling into a relationship, but thats it. I soon become bored I guess, My longest relationship being 6months. Is this un healthy, like for me to enjoy sex, but have buddies that help out there :P Like should I stop haveing out of relationship sex, Because is that limiting my chances of ever finding love. This may all sound like I am young and stupid, but i am really trapped on this thought. I guess you could say I am scared...

Hey I am a young guy. I go for 3 monthly std check ups. I know that using protection is like the only way to go, but honestly I dont all that often. This scares me hey, like how could I be so stupid. If I met some one at a club and went home with them I would be protected, but where as when I am having sex with friends (Hey I am young and single we all do it) i Kind of don't. can you just like tell me how stupid this is and how stupid I must be to know all the dangers and still do it. its like putting a shark in a pool and going swimming, just hoping not to get bitten...

Young and alone.... you are only 18 enjoy your youth and experience news things and as you learn and grow your tastes will change in what you desire in a relationship. Being alone isnt a bad thing and you will look back on this time and see just what you have learnt. Enjoy your own company, being single doesnt mean you have to be lonely. You spoke of "friends" so get out there hang with them and when you least expect it someone will pop into your life like a breath of fresh air. Don't have to higher expectations, there is never a set limit for the time you are single..........

I'm a lesbian and well educated, but I never ever considered the risk of catching STD's when I first started practising sex. When I came out there was a very limited resource of information at hand, and back then it wasnt so easy to pop online and do a search. The thought of walking into ACON freaked me out and I never ever had safe sex in my adolescent years. Now days there is so much information out there but I am yet to find from new sexual partners them raising the issue with me its always me confronting them and when this occurs these women feel as if I am accusing them of something but its better safe then sorry and if she gets an attitude she isnt worth it....

Young & Alone - There is a difference between falling in love and falling in lust. There is nothing wrong with falling in lust, and enjoying the results if you can. It doesn't mean you won't fall in love. Sometimes lust is part of love, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes we fall in lust first, sometimes we fall in love first.

Also, it takes us a while to understand what it is we value in another person, and then to find someone that gives you that. Don't rush. It will happen sometime. In the meantime Cutefloozy had good advice.

Cutefloozy - Just wondering, been new on the scene (well not realy) but new to female sexuality!! In regards to STD's, what have I got to look forward to??..haha Women on Women, what are the REAL risks??

Need to be slapped - you're right - you need to be slapped!!! I think that they young gay male population have a somewhat false sense of security......that because there are things out there that can be taken to reduce the risk of infection (or whatever it is that they do) they have unsafe sex. This is madness (as well as being expensive and they usually make you really sick!). STOP! HAVE SAFE SEX ALL THE TIME. Boring I know, but if you're lacking in respect for your own wellbeing, respect others who don't know your practices. Conversely, if someone you hook up with doesn't want safe sex, can it. It's not on if it's not on. I've got two (healthy) HIV+ friends. They were both in their early to mid twenties when they found out and I was the first one they told. They have no idea how they got it (or rather from whom). Trust me, it's like sticking a knife in a toaster - you only get one chance! Have 6 weeks safe sex, then get tested (remember, HIV tests don't usually cover the last 6 weeks - or so I've been told). Also get your Hep A and B shots - very important. I suspect that you know all this already, but wanted confirmation! The HIV infection rate is going UP (at least in Victoria) BE SAFE!

i am looking for a man for ever

Grrly - there are some terrific web sites out there with some great information. I have read quite a few of them, but don't feel qualified to get into the nitty gritty and tell you the ins and outs of "lesbian safe sex"....anyway here's one web site that was a good introduction but rather brief... www.safersex.org/women/lesbiass.html

What is the big deal about comming out is, I came out to my local Priest, and he used me in a sermon illustration, I am glad my family weren't at church that day. I know i am gay, i wish i wan't, i don't think anyone would want to be gay by choice. I love my best friend of 10 years, but he doesn't know that I am gay, and i can't tell him. He hates gays and wants to kill them all. Being gay sucks

I'm not even sure what I want to say- I don't even know if I am gay but I suppose the fact that I've got this far means something? I'm a girly girl in Sydney & I don't find it hard to pull guys- the trouble is I'm never that interested in them. I have a crush on another girl- Does this mean its time to come out? Its all very daunting!

Mrsk - Thu 25 Jul 2002 21:33:10 : Think about what your feelings are for your friend, I had a big crush on my best friend before I came out but realised it was bexcause we were close anyhow and to this day I still think he is a sexy goergous guy and a great friend as well.

It took me a few years to tell him that I was gay - when I was coming out - I eventually told him when I was 23, we had known each other since 13. He was really really shocked.

What hurt him most was that I did not trust him earlier with this revelation. He had always used homophobic words and given the impression of hating gays, but when I came out to him it also forced him to confront his own attitudes and the language that he used and the way he reacted to these issues.

What shocked me most was that he said at the time, 'I have also had things with guys, but realise that it is not for me...' , this blew me away as I always thought he was so so straight.

As for the Priests - mate that is their job, and that is their karma - don't expect anything different coz it ain't gonna change with those pricks.

Being Gay is not something to love or hate as such - it is something that YOU ARE. What you need is some support and some space to understand what it really means to you, and how you can grow to love life as a gay person. First and foremost you are a human being. And humans come in an amazing range of colours, flavours, sizes and shapes. Celebrate that humanity and feel good about being different.

"As we let our own light shine, we unconciously give other people permission to do the same" (Nelson Mandela).

Thanks N. I am quite Religious, and faith is important to me, I have accepted that i am what i am, but it is hard... ...I have seen one friend come out, and how they ended up moving to a big city becasue the homophobic thing and a strange belief that gays will burn in hell. People really blieve that stuff, my family and friends do. I wish it was as easy as just celebrating my humanity. There is an internal conflict with in myself about this as well. I am confused, do i have to live as a single all my life if i am gay???

Hey all, this is an update from need to be slapped. I guess I was slapped and some sense was knocked into me. I have made sure that I am clear of all, and I have fully decided that safe sex, (As much as there are funner ways) is the way to go for me, until am in a relationship etc...

Thanks all. this place is great.

Mrsk, I know that coming out for you right now is probably the hardest thing that you have experienced but don't let get you down,we have all gone through it, the doubt, the fear but, once you do, everything becomes alot easier. My advise to you is have a chat with one of the councilors at the MCC Church,this church is non denomiational and can help with any problems that you face. Good luck.

Not needing to be slapped - There are lots and lots of safe fun practices that do not involve anal intercourse. Try exploring your partners body. Not to mention lots of kinky activities. Maybe you could try some of these to get that "fun" back.

Mrsk, Could I add my support for the suggested approach above by 'The Old Timer'. They are a great organisation, and you will find good counsel there. I was bought up catholic, and we experienced similar scarey beliefs to the ones you describe, and it still shocks me that people believe this stuff.

And in smaller communities it is harder than anything else to contend with, but remember that there are so many others that have been able to connect with the right people and move forward and there are a lot of folks out there ready and able to listen, discuss and help. Keep smiling huh.

Hi
I am a lesbian whom has never slept with a man, but recently a straight male has shown interest in me and I explained I was a lesbian. BUT..........am I being hypocritical as I have never had sex with a man, maybe I would find out I enjoyed it... I'm confused, I am not an ignorant person can I safely say that I dont like men if I have never been inimate with one?????? can someone offer me some constructive advice please

dear confuseddyke- always try everything once..you never know!! often good to have the best of both worlds??

Ok,

Well I recently came out to my family and its a really
hard time for me at the moment and my family are not
making things easy for me.

I would like to talk to guys around my age (18 - 25) that could
give me some advice about things.

My email is:

ssc_sucks@hotmail.com

Cheers Everyone

Damien - Call your local Gay & Lesbian Counselling Service. They can give you lots of advice and referals. They have helped lots of people in similar positions.

Confuseddyke - There is nothing that says whether you should or should not have sex with any particular group of people. You need to define your own rules, find your own identity. It is a matter of individual choice.

Where is the lesbian scene in local regional areas? How do you find out? Recently moved from Sydney to west of Blue Mountains!

Elle

need to find other lesbians to talk with and possibly meet - central west n.s.w. we are 2 women in our forties who would like to make contact with other women around this age. nico and wednesday-6/8/02.

I am a lesbian who came out to my family 3yrs ago I understand it takes time to get used to and being catholic it goes against their beliefs but they have said they still love me. So the advice I am asking is what do I do now? A few days ago when I was talking to my mum she was saying she had talked to a family friend about me, I at the time immediately thought how great it was that she could talk to a friend about it and asked how it went only to be told that she doesn't think "I'm one of them either". It hurts to think my coming out to my parents doesn't seem to have been taken seriously 3yrs on and they still sound like they think it will just go away. I'm 25 and have known about my sexuality from about the age of 14 it isn't going to change, it was suggested to me to write a letter to them explaining how I feel, about how it doesn't change the person they know etc. I think you can get the idea of what kind of letter and approaching it this way was suggested because when the issue is spoken about they just go silent, so this way they can just read it without feeling like a confrontation, I just want them to accept me for who I am I want them to be part of my life. I know it takes time and I can be patient but I wonder how long it is going to take, if ever. Does anyone have any suggestions, is the letter a good idea?

Hi CJ, it's such a subjective issue. Some parents handle issues better if it's in a letter format, and others might feel upset because you couldn't speak to them face-to-face. However, in your instance, you've already tried that, so perhaps a letter is the way to go. Only you know your parents' personalities, and therefore likely reaction. The other option could be to give them some literature from P-Flag (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) and that could be helpful. There are also some great books around in G & L bookshops that document experiences from both parents and G&L people. This could be a good read for them. Ultimately though, their level of acceptance may never be as complete as you'd like it to be because of their beliefs, upbringing etc. However, I hope that the suggestions above may help. Good luck!

nice to see communication sight for Tasmania but is there such a thing as direct chat line here for the girls????????

Hi there
Okay...I can't say I'm new to the gay scene... I've had a boyfriend for the last 2 years. However.. I'm not out to my family as yet and it has been pretty trying hiding it from them. I'm just not sure how to go about it all.... I am fairly sure that they will be okay with it... I mean.. they won't disown me or anything. I think they'll be a little disappointed (you know...no grand kids etc!) and probably upset but I think they will accept it. The thing is... I just "think" this and don't "know" it....so I'm scared. I want to be able to tell them... so they can meet my bf and I can be open with them about it. I know I should have done it a long long time ago but I didn't. You see... I'm 29!!! So if anyone out there can give me some advice... or anything... I'd love to know!!
Thanks!

I just came out to two straight friends of mine (one male, one female) as a kind of testing-the-water exercise. Afterwards I had a rather intense feeling of elation and relief. I had delayed telling them for a long time, mainly because I was just embarrassed that I'd kept them in the dark for so long. It felt stupid that they knew me so well and yet didn't know this one, fundamental thing about me.

Also, I was utterly sick of hiding it from them. It's a pain in the arse to keep different people in seperate compartments of your life.

A while back, I couldn't imagine telling these people. Now that I've done it, I'm so glad. Some time in the future I'll tell the parents I guess - that'll be a nervy experience.

So, *Late in Life,* my recommendation is to do what feels right. It might be too much of an obstacle to tell your parents now, but you never know when the right moment will pop up, everything feels right and you just say 'today's the day'.

Anyway, try to be a little relaxed about it. You could always take the Dirk Bogarde or Elton John approach; let everyone figure it out for themselves. Being gay isn't that much of a big thing that you absolutely *have* to make announcements about it. It's a little like being left-handed (10% of the population) or belonging to some wacko church group - if people can't or don't figure it out after a while, then it can't be much of a big deal. Possibly.

Just remember, you can't do anything about being gay and you can't do anything about what they think about your being gay, so if they don't like it, it's a case of stiff-shit. It's not your fault. On the other hand, if you've known you are gay for a long time, and your parents don't suspect, then you should be prepared for them to show some surprise - that's only natural on their part.

Anyway, good luck. At least you've got a boyf'.

ErkoBoy - Thank you for your advice I have just recently received a kit from P-Flag I just haven't given it to the folks not sure how to approach it but I will. I was also loaned a book like the ones you spoke of not sure whether they will read it but who knows. As for their level of acceptence I realise that it will never be as I would have hoped but if they could just see that I am still the same person just that they now know the whole me and not try to deny that or be ashamed of me that would be good. Once again thanks for the advice I really appreciate it.

Hi there 'Late in life'........I didn't come out to my parents until a similar age to you. They weren't particularly surprised. A little disappointed perhaps - which is fair. But they're absolutley fine. My whole family know and love my bf just like a member of the family. You'll never 'know' their reaction until you tell them.....a bit like diving off a board - you can't go back! However, you'll be amazed at how great you feel for having done it. You can be so much more yourself - not having to try and hide it from them etc etc. In fact, it's an indication of how much you love them that you want them to share your whole life and not exclude them from part of it. I think if you accept that they'll need a bit of time to absorb it and be there if they have any questions, it'll be fine. Bottom line is you are who you are and it shouldn't make any difference to anyone. When the time feels right, go for it!
erkoboy32@hotmail.com

Hi CJ - glad to hear you've got the P-Flag thing happening. It's a bit like I said above......if you didn't love them, you wouldn't want to include them in your whole life. They'll probably accept you for who you are sooner or later. They're from such a different generation, that it's a major mindset adjustment thing for them to deal with. Give them the information and simply say 'I know that perhaps it's difficult for you to accept part of who I am, but I love you very much and hope that when you're comfortable with it, you'll read this information. Perhaps we could talk about it if you feel like it later'....or something like that!

ive always felt that i should be totally open with everybody about my sexuality (i'm a lesbian who came out six months ago) because i owe it to them as the people i love to tell them the truth about me... actually one of the things in my life that i am most proud of... but my grandmother is sick at the moment even though she will be better soon my parents dont want me to burden her with anything incase she becomes to worrying about my future.. but what is the value of her love if she doesn't know what she loves?
grrl

cj - When people come out they go though a process very similar to greiving with many of the same stages. Similarly when people have to accept someone elses sexuality. This takes different lengths of time for different people. I would guess that your parents are now in "denial", one of the last stages. I would further guess that they are looking for confirmation for the various views.

Another couple of suggestions:

Find someone with authority that they can accept, such as in the church. The Catholic group Acceptance may be able to help here, as can P-Flag.
Show them about your life and that it is happy and fulfilling, that they need not fear that you will be unloved, that you have friends who care for you.

Late in Life - Have a look through the archives for this wall for suggestions on how to come out to your parents. The other thing you need to be sure of is that you have a good support network available for you, and possibly for your parents, in case things do go badly.

grrl - The decision of whether to tell your grandmother should be yours, not your parents. You should be considering your grandmother's state of health and ability to cope. She is a real person so be careful of being too idealistic.

If your parents have valid reasons then maybe you should be listening to them. On the other hand their reasons may be a reflection of their still coming to terms with your sexuality, which they may never accept completely.

You don't have to come out all at once, you can drop hints to better prepare her for the actual announcement.

Dear Late in Life,

I was in a slightly different position, you see I was married with 3 kids oldest nearly 18, so everyone that I told didn't believe me.

If you're looking for a support network I thoroughly recommend the Men's coming Out Group in Sydney, it's part of the Gay and Lesbian Councelling Service, I couldn't have done it without them.

Now I'm a happy adjusted poof living my partner, and the ex wife and kids are great too. The six of us spend lots of time together. You're still the same person that you were before you told them, remember that. If they love you before you tell them, they'll still love you. Give them a chance to get over the initial shock though, and talk freely and honestly, you'll be amazed how great you feel afterwards.

Good luck to all facing coming out

Cheers

Hey-ho. 'scuse my jumping in to the community here, but I've got some issues going. I'm a 17 year old girl and have been bisexual as long as I can remember (I was attracted to girlies before boys), and all my friends, mum, dad, etc seem fine with it. *However*, I've actually been experiencing more predjudice from gays than breeders: apparantly, I'm "copping out" by not commiting to either. Is this opinion as widespread as it appears to be? If so, what the bloody hell?!? How can gay people justify discriminating against bi's in almost the same way that nasty, KKK-type straights do against them? Is bisexuality the final taboo, or something?

Ripper - Unfortuately you are correct. Gay men and lesbians are just as discriminatory as the rest of society. We are racist, sexist, biphobic, etc. It seems we are unable to apply the lesson we should have learnt while coming to terms with being different to others in similar positions. I am at a loss to explain this.

Bisexuality is a valid sexuality. Maybe you can educate some of the gay bigots.

*grin* "Hello, class, and welcome to AC/DC 101." Thanks, Panther. Yeah, sadly, gay doesn't necessarily equal tolerant (just look at some of the discrimination against straight folk). I just sort of naively presumed that bisexuals would be viewed as part of the gay community- if there even is such a thing anymore. *shrug* It just sucks a special kind of arse to be discriminated against by *both* sides of the fence.

About bisexuality I have a theory (actually I have a number but try this one for size) that the issue is ego, i.e. "I can handle you leaving me, but I can't handle you leaving me for someone of the opposite sex". If you pushed far enough I reckon that alot of gay people will admit to this double standard.

Challange these people, ask them why they need you to wear their lable of choice, ask them why loving human isn't lable enough to satisfy, let alone bi-sexual. Frankly it sounds like your friends are anachronistic, have you thought about donating them to a museum?

Check out queer literature, essays and film if you need a space to breath in freedom of being while you gather a network of open minds (friends) around you.

labels - bi questions? have a look at http://www.bi.org.au/bpa/
Mission "Bi Pride Australia exists to promote pride among people who identify as Bi, and to encourage those who practice bisexuality to acknowledge it as a valid and valuable aspect of their personal identity."
and http://sbn.bi.org/index.html
"The Sydney Bisexual Network is an organization which provides an opportunity for bisexual and bisexual friendly people to meet together in welcoming, comfortable, safe, and friendly spaces. "

have fun exploring ...

hey does anyone know where i can get out with other gay/lesbian(however you want to phrase it!) in perth????? im a little bit lost and lonely here and being newly 'out' im finding it hard!!!!!!!!!!

No labels, No labels....!!

Thank you Panther and Ripper for your comments, you make me realise that I am not alone in my thoughts about 'discrimination'...in any scene..regardless. Used to think I was the only one who felt that way. Mind you, brings to mind a Mardi Gras party where Boy George played. Lot of issues going on then!! The quote of the day then was "Remember, be nice to straight people because it takes one of them to make two of us"!!!!!!!!

Hey, thanks to all who replied. It's good to know that those nasty discriminating types are in the highly unfashionable and morally questionable minority. :D Also, good to see the lack of "down with breeders!" mentality...intolerance of any sort just annoys me so very greatly. Any bi people who want to chat: send me pretty letters. I will send some back. Probably.
ripperaw@yahoo.com

lost and lonely/wa
there is the Court Hotel in Northbridge, and Connections in James Street. If you are young, check out the Freedom Centre or call GLCS. The Freedom Centre has a website - http://www.freedom.org.au - maybe try there first?
also have a look at http://www.emyko.com as a lot of grrls chat/meet from there.

lost and lonely/wa . that post about websites was from me -> sax

sax
thanks for the tips on where to go in perth (and the websites too), i just need to work up the confidence now to actually go "out there" on my own as it just all seems really daunting...im sure im not the only one though which does ease my mind lightly.. thankyou again!!

not so lost wa
glad to help
October is Pride month in Perth so there will be lots happening. My favourite thing is Fair Day at Hyde Park. Check it out if you are wanting to venture "out there" in a non-threatening environment. check out their website at http://www.pridewa.asn.au for details.
If you go have a great time! I will be hanging around the bowling tent - WAGL (WA Gay & Lesbian Ten-Pin bowling league) we always have a tent with a portable bowling lane. Come and say hi!
cheers

I?e recently ?ealised?acknowledged the fact that I? gay. The best thing is that I?e fallen in love with a beautiful young lady & every time I think of her it makes me so happy. However, I? saddened to think that I don? know how/when to tell my family/friends about this great feeling of being in love. I?e had nightmares about it & I really don? know what I should do next.

I am 32 femme and newly single, and have absolutely no gay friends. I am not really into the scene, and am sometimes shy. Any tips on ways to meet new friends, in an open and unthreatening environment??

hi Sydney Sista
try the BumpHerBar at Burdekin Hotel, upstairs on a Friday nite
- there are girlies and their straight g'friends, a lot of girls go straight from work/ dinner still in their corporate clothes or dress-up frieday gear .... lesbians aren't all dungarees and blundstones : )

Hi ppl! I am a 25yo bi-male and have been seeing the same girl for the last 3yrs. I am new 2 Sydney and I would like to experience the B-side of my sexuality. The problem is my girlfriend does not know about the other side of me and I would like to keep it that way for many reasons. Is it allright to stay in the closet? And live a double life, cause I find this quite a thrill ;o)
My major issue is meeting the right type of guy who wants to be discreet as me, is this possible? and are there any ways to meet like minded ppl as myself?

Hi,
I'm an 19 yr old gal in Qld and I'm just starting to accept that I'm gay, and I wouldn't mind (ok, i'd love) to meet some other lesbians. But I don't have a clue where to start. Any suggestions?

Hello, I came out to my folks 3 years ago at the age of 25 and at the time I don't think it was much of a surprise to them. However, 3 years on and I am now in a committed relationship with a wonderful woman, and to my dismay my parents are still really struggling with it. My dad refuses point blank to acknowledge my partner (I am told that he still thinks it's a 'phase'), and my mother still asks things like, "Tell me, do you and **** ever wear skirts??" I am at a bit of a loss here because my partner's family have accepted me with open arms, and I am a bit disappointed and embarrassed that I can't show her the same hospitality. I've looked up the PFLAG website and they appear only to be operating in Victoria and Perth. I'm in Sydney - what can I do?

There is definitely a Sydney branch. There are community listings in the Sydney Star Observer regularly. Also the Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service has lots of contact details.

PFLAG is a great resource and should be able to help a bit. Maybe you can sit them down and tell them how much they are hurting you. It won't change them overnight, but they may come to understand and accept you a bit more.

hi all very inspiring chatties, in tassy,yummy and butch, talk to me.

shy -bi you are norty....

Hi,
I'm 21 and gay. WOW!! It feels so good having written that down. Since opening the door little over 6 months ago, I can truly say its been one of the best periods in my life.
I was always worried about the ridicule, acceptance, people's general attidudes & a basic fear of isolation. I found by putting my fears & doubts aside, I have 'blossomed' to a fine young man.
Without 'big noteing' myself, in 21yrs I haven't felt more proud to be me, than right now.
It hurts me that I can't talk to my parents about it. They accept it, yet 'strongly' dislike it. My sister and brother think its beautiful, I know mum and dad are hurting. I would like to approach them, any pointers? What is PFLAG?

Domink, I'm 22 and STILL in the bloody closet - but I like your story.
I'm freaked out because I'm destined to work in a most conservative environment - how would coming out affect my relationship with all those blokey people (myself included there)! haha. Also, my parents would be SO dissapointed, as are yours. I could never tell them, yet at the moment I feel so much guilt after having my "fun" going out with guys and all the rest of it.... Perhaps the answer for me is to move out of home as soon as I can? Is that going to help I wonder?
Anyway.... I recently read in a book that when someone wants something, the whole world conspires to help them achieve it. I just want to be free of this guilt. I have no brothers or sisters, and live in a wog family.. oh woe is me! hehe.

Any comments, ideas, suggestions?!

Hi
In my early 30's,I've been sort-of "out" for a short while, but still nervous about the whole issue (friends/ family etc). Having just moved to Newcastle, NSW I don't know anyone, and find it hard to meet people just to make friends. I'm not into the club scene - too shy for my own good Does anyone have any ideas - anything non-threatening etc? I'd love to be part of the local lesbian scene but am a bit scared about taking this huge step.

Oh boy. My parents had trouble coping 5 years ago when I told them that I'm a dyke - they're still hoping I'll meet the right guy. They're going to flip when I tell them I got it all wrong, I'm not even sure the word 'transgender' is part of their vocabulary. I have no idea how to approach this one. It took every ounce of courage I had to come out the first time. Bloody Catholics!

when i was 16 and frustrated and angry about the whole sex (or lack of it) issue, MY DAD ASKED ME ONE DAY IF I WAS ON HEROIN...

i said no dad i'm gay...

he said , "thank god..ill have to tell your mother "...

(she said she always knew...and i aint an effem type either)

dear gates
as a gay boy i just wanted to say these dykes are just people like yourself with fears and joys and passion and love to offer...just like yourself...

dont be scared they are your greatest support group..well i guess thats a generalization but lots of them will love you and love to be your friends...

Thanks for the advice. Sound advice indeed. Thanks for putting it so simply, and into perspective for me. Just have to work up the confidence to get out there...I'm sure the first time is the most difficult (like everything else in life).

hi Gates
get yourself a copy of LOTL and have a look at the personals - some of them just want friends to hang out with. www.lotl.com
Also they have listings for community groups, some in your area.
take care

Ok so this is my first post and I've just become used to the idea that I'm a lesbian! yay! (really enjoyed better than chocolate last night!) I'm 22 and in syd and have gathered that the BumpHer bar is the best place to go to start off ... I'm wandering how exactly I'm going to do that since I'm not out to anyone yet! I'm pretty sure that my best friends will be alright with the whole thing (I could drag them along?!?) - but since I don't know any gay/lesbian people it's gonna be kind of hard if you rock up to a bar by yourself ... I know it's all about getting the courage up, but I don't think I'm one to respond to any adverts to meet people either. Are there any groups in Sydney for younger (i guess up to thirty-ish) women to hang out / come out? any particular suggestions would be good since i've had a look on the web and haven't come across anything yet! thanks for your advice

although maybe a little boyzee for some girls...stonewall is also a great place for the grrrls to find some and mix and mingle...

on the verge... - There is a Women's Coming Out Group run by the Gay & Lesbian Counselling Service of NSW. Give them a call to find out the times.

Hi On the Verge...

... Well, the way I did it was to just goto a gay bar by myself once... Its bloody amazing how many people I've met since that day. Granted, They have all been part of that "other" part of my life, and I've managed to live this weird double life for a while, but things are slowly changing.... I still struggle to goto gay bars etc, because I'm not really out yet either, but its nice to go with people you know, or at least with someone. Heck I'll join you if you like - Funnily its probably the best combo for closet cases such as ourselves to go out together and explore... gay guy, and gay girl. Lol who would suspect?! haha.

Cheers and good luck!

i just wanted to wish anyone who is 'coming out' , well. just a couple of tips, i crashed thru the closest and took out a few other pieces of furniture on the way,,,,,,,,my way of dealing with rejection was drinking, my idea of drinking was guzzling, my drunken me took me to places where unsafe sex was rampant, my unsafe sex practices took me to the doctors, you get the picture,,,,,,,love is not sex,,,sex will not make your heart mend,,,,,this may not apply to many but it will to some,,,there is no such thing as an ugly, unlovable or worthless person,,,,,be kind to yourselves,,and enjoy your new found freedom,,,

I have been totally out for nearly ten years. Coming out was a LONG, SLOW process - it took about 9 years all up from the first person I told to finally telling my Catholic parents. I am incredibly lucky that I have had no negative reactions from anyone. I just want to make a point that I think gets forgotten by people in the 'public eye' of being gay - it is as difficult to come out today as it has always been, I reckon. I so often hear or read people saying it is easier to come out today than it was 'when I was a boy', but I think for the person having to do it, is it still incredibly hard. It is still an incredibly courageous move. It is still the most wonderful thing you can do for yourself - but do it when you are ready, and as slowly as you need to. Being out is so much easier than coming out - I wish all of you going through this process the very best of luck, and hope happiness finds you once your closet is behind you.

Dear Gates are you still looking for girls in Newcastle ???
some suggestions...
Go to Club 'g' Islington on Friday nights, non-threatening and newly renovated great place, Salar Cafe in Watt street Newcastle often has plenty of dykes sipping coffee, any womens rugby or soccer match.
There you go now go forth and enjoy

Need To Be Slapped (and also to Erkoboy who responded) - Safe sex is a choice and so is not using condoms. First, you don't need to be slapped. I am soooo tired of the 'holier than thou' AIDS council and Gay-Men's doctors throwing tirades at people for not having safe sex. Risk is everywhere in our society and you can't control everything. Furthermore, admonishing or metaphorically slapping people for having unsafer-sex does not work and is hardly a caring community value. From my own perspective, I would hope that we give you the love and support that you need to see yourself as the beautiful person you are, and there after make decisions based on care for yourself. But also, that if you do happen to 'slip up', whatever the consequences, we will be here for you, to still love you and accept you no matter what. Unfortunately, you are not likley to find this in the so-called gay community, and certainly not on the scene. Ever more intrusive interventions will not work, and neither will slapping you. HERE'S A NICE BIG HUG FROM ME!

On the matter of regular STI check-ups, did you know that all you need to do is give a urine sample? It is not necessary to subject yourself to intrusive INTRA-URETHRAL examinations and testing that are all the more intrusive for being unnecessary. Public health is one thing, but social and invasive control of gay men by so-called 'gay men's medicine' is the greatest act of persecution since shock-therapy and public hangings. Also, being asymptomatic is extremely rare so the recent campaigns for regular testing are nothing more than public scare campaigns. Go see your doctor if you supect that something is wrong.

Lastly, I hope you do choose safe sex in future. Not because some Doctor says so but because the alternative is obviously causing you grief. How about pondering the idea that after safe sex you can feel comfortable without the worry and anxiety of wondering if you have contracted the HIV virus? Most importantly, we need you! We need you to be here with us, to be our friend, to be our lover, to be whatever it is that you have to offer.

Darling man, take care of yourself and know that you are beautiful, whatever your shape, size, colour or sexual choices. And if anyone says otherwise, tell them 'not according to David P'. My love to you babe, xxx

Well coming out is a big step for one to take and i applaude you all for making the step. I am still in the closet with my family though i have a supportive bf of 2.5yrs.
I still cant get those words out of my mouth to my parents" I am gay" i dont want to hurt them or to be a disappointment in there eyes.. even though i live away from home and have told my sister who was greatly acceptive of it though she lives o/seas so i dont think that counts.
my closest hetro friends and to my parents is another thing, its something i want to get over but just dont know how to handle it. i guess only time will tell ... if anyone has a similar story i would love to hear it.

I am a genuine guy who had bi relationships at boarding school (many moons ago) and has tried finding out where I can meet a transexual. I am wanting to build a relationship and do not know where to start.

Wondering if there's any gay friendly clubs, pubs etc down the south coast ?

Where abouts on the south coast are you talking about Dr.

http://www.gay-brother-tom.com
check it out tell me what you boys think.

Hey guys,

We are a group of guys who are organising a greek and gay community forum as part of this year's Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Festvial - you may have seen us mentioned in the MG Festival guide. The topic of the forum is "Coming out to my Big Fat Greek Family - Issues and Considerations".

It is being held on Monday 17 February 2003 at 7.00pm at the ACON Building which is located at 9 Commonwealth St Surry Hills (just off Liverpool St near Hyde Park). The forum is going to be a relaxed affair, just a chance to meet up with other greek & gay guys, have a discussion about some issues face by Greek & Gay men and see if there is any interest in having an ongoing social and support network happening. A Greek & Gay group has been running in Melbourne for over 7 years and they have a membership of over 70 people!

We are looking for some volunteers to help out with the forum, from putting up posters, helping out on the Fair Day stall we are organising, finding a greek flag we can borrow, to just letting other greek & gay guys you know that the forum is happening.

If are interested in helping out or even if you just want to stay informed about what's happening with the forum send an email to greekgayguys@hotmail.com

Greek & Gay is a free, fun & confidential group for Gay and bisexual men of greek background. Please pass on this email on to anyone you think may be interested the group. hope to see you at the forum on 17 February.

gia ke kala

chuckyoz
Telling your parents is probably the hardest thing to do.But until you do
they will never truly share your life.But you know your parents I don't.So you
probably know what their attitudes are.My father was quite anti-gay.But now
he has a gay son he is quite different.I and my partner are always welcomed
with open arms.
I know it is a cliche but if your hetro friends can't accept you for who you really are then they are not true friends.
I know these are only my experiences and others have had different.
But sometimes you have to take the chance.

Thank you starcat, for the kind words, i am thinking the next time i am home visiting my parents its time to say something and get it out of my system, i was thinking of leaving a note or sending an email but believe its something that will have to be said face to face... hopefully it will all go well... and besides there is nothing wrong being gay i am still the same person and its the person that counts...

Yes face to face is the only way.Good luck chuckyoz

There are a select group of men that rarely get information about coming out.

These are men who are or have been married.

I was married over 8 years ago (I also had 2 children) and realised that I was not happy, because I was gay (even though I never had sex with a guy), but didn't know what to do or where to go for help.

Thanks to a group called G.A.M.M.A., Gay & Married Mens Association (their 1800 phone number is in the white pages under GAY), I spoke to a counsellor on the phone sevaral and then made my way to a meeting, located in a Central location.

There I learn't what choices that I had to make, and how to put them into action.

The atmosphere was non-threatening and I didn't feel that I was pushed into anything.

Every choice I made, was my own.

If you are in a similar position and interesting in speaking to them or attending a meeting, feel free to call them.

It is a voluntary run phone line between 6pm & 10pm Monday - Friday, but sometime they are short staffed and the phones are unattended, so keep trying.

THANKYOU G.A.M.M.A, you helped my change my life.

Hiya everyone! I wrote on this board a few months ago and have since told one of my friends ... it was al a bit of a shamozzle since i'd had a few drinks that night - but she was very understanding, had no idea, but helped me at least deal with it for that night. I haven't spoken about it since though - although i do feel a bit relieved. however, I've been trying to contact the counseling service for a few months now and have had little success... I understand that they had a break or something over the xmas/new years period, however, there was no message either on the internet or as an answering machine message saying this. Eventually I got up the courage to keep calling as I felt I had the courage finally to go to one of those coming out groups only to be told to ring back (i think it was three times) since they didn't know when the groups were on. Other times I have called and been told to call on a monday night as this is the 'girls night'... again I have tried tonight with no success, as the phone just rings out. I've probably tried now on about 15 different nights. All I can say is that I know other people are calling (because it has sometimes been engaged on those nights when no one answers and this could only mean that someone else is trying to ring through) and I hope they are not desperately needing to talk to someone. Does anyone know what's happening with this service. I am guessing that it is a volunteer service and that people give up their own time to help those of us who need it, but perhaps they could reduce the hours to something more manageable or alternatively provide a message service when no one is there to take your calls so that you know no one is there and you don't wait nervously each time waiting for someone to pick up! It is sometimes hard to find a time to call between the specified times and I can imagine for younger kids it would be extremely difficult if they have not told their family and are trying to use the phone secretly. If anyone has any further information, it would be appreciated, because I would really like to go to one of these groups and think i need to since I don't know how else to come out. has anyone else experienced problems with this? or are any girls interested in trying to organise something separately? anyway, happy mardigras ... i was hoping to be out by this time, but alas, I'm stuck here in the closet with my straight friends on mardi gras weekend. enjoy it! ...maybe next year!!!! btw, has anyone noticed how much more people talk about "gay" people in general family/friends conversations these days. even at work. or is it that i just notice it more these days!

Still in here..please stay tuned for a response frothe Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service of NSW (GLCS) in the next 24 hours.

Hi still in there

Congratulations on taking that first big step in coming out to one of your friends We here at the Gay and Lesbian Counselling Service of New South Wales (GLCS) certainly do empathise with what you are experiencing both in the coming out process and trying to reach one of our telephone counsellors. Often the first thing a caller will say is ?inally!? It can be a very frustrating experience trying to actually speak to one of our counsellors for many reasons. This response is not intended to be in defence of the GLCS but meant to provide some answers for you (and the multitude of others) who have difficulty accessing our service.

You are right about the GLCS being a volunteer organisation. The GLCS is, with the exception of our Executive Officer, fully staffed by volunteers. The role of our Executive Officer is not that of a counselling nature. As you can imagine there at certain times of the year the staffing roster for the phone lines can be extremely sparse. Whilst, we do not have a break over the Christmas/New Year period for our phone lines, many of our volunteers have family or relationship commitments that do not allow them to volunteer their time during this period. Sadly, Mardi Gras is also one of those times when it is difficult to keep the phone lines open. We try and have the phones operational 7 days a week from 4pm until midnight.

The Coming Out Groups (COG) on the other hand do have a break over Christmas. This can last anywhere from mid December to late January. The Men? and Women? COGs are now both back in session and running. The Women? COG runs every 2nd and 4th Thursday of each Month at 7pm at the GLCS building, 197 Albion Street, Surry Hills. There next meeting is 26 February, then 13 March. Please contact Tim, our Executive officer on 9207 2888 if you would like more information or have a look at our website www.glcsnsw.org.au where information on both groups, including downloadable brochures, can be found..

Like I said our phones are staffed by volunteers and at times there are many gaps in the roster. Like any volunteer they can only give a certain amount of time in any week and as such we cannot ensure that the phones are always staffed. Having said that though we do actively canvass our counsellors to try and fill these blank spots when they are appear. On the upside, in May we begin training the new intake of telephone counsellors. This could see 20 new counsellors join our ranks over the next 12 months and thus increase the amount of time the phones are staffed. Information on this Training can be found on the website at www.glcsnsw.org.au.

Another initiative the Board of the GLCS is undertaking is a review of the service we offer. This review will hopefully make the counselling service more accessible and effective for our callers. Some of the areas we will be looking at reviewing are: the operating hours of the service, the length of each shift each counsellor does; the number of counsellors on duty at any one time; and special services for women. We have already explored the idea of a messaging service. In short, for a community organisation that receives little funding it would be too cost prohibitive. We offer a freecall service for rural callers. A 1800 number. Each time a caller uses this number the GLCS pays for this call. So if we were to have an answering service each time a person rang and heard the message it would use funds that could pay for a call where we actually counselled someone. It was a tough decision but we thought the amount of funds we have reserved for this service would be better used listening and talking to people rather than a machine telling them we cannot talk to them.

Still in there, please follow up the COG with Tim, or turn up to a meeting. As for talking to one of our counsellors please keep trying. As for Mardi Gras it is still not late to make Mardi Gras 2003 what you wanted it to be. You can still attend the parade, watch it, or even be on a float. You are welcome to join ours. Lastly, do not give up, keep forging ahead, you have started that life long process called coming out and we applaud your determination.

Take care,

GLCS

Thank you very much BC for your extended response. I hope my comments didn't come across as criticising the glcs as that is not what I intended at all - sometimes I get a bit too frustrated with everything, mostly with myself, and lose sight of the big picture! I appreciate and applaud all the volunteers who give their time and effort into the counselling service and understand the major limitations which low funds place on organisations such as the glcs and I would agree with your decisions regarding the best areas in which to place scarce funds. It is interesting to hear that you are looking into a special service for women, bc during my surveying of information relating to coming out or women's services in general, there seems to be a distinct difference in the availability of these groups than the male versions. I am sure there is a good answer for this and assume that it is simply a case of supply and demand?! BC, have you been to any of the women's coming out groups recently? do you know if many people go each week or at the moment? I am scared of going and pretty much being the only person there. What sort of things do people talk about - I know that there's no set format, but could you provide some examples of what goes on in these groups. Also, whilst I'm asking - do you know anything about gay and lesbian organisations at sydney university? I guess it's not pc to say anything in particular about one group specifically but are these uni organisations generally politically driven? do you think it's a good place for someone starting to come out to venture into, or would you suggest that a person should generally be a bit more comfortable with who they are first? At the moment, it's taken me a long time, but I generally feel comfortable with who I am and feel I just need some way to actually find me some friends in this community because even though I've told one of my friends, I'm still going out with all my straight friends and quite frankly, although I'm not sick of hanging out with them, I'm sick of hanging out in completely straight bars (apart from all those in the closet!!! i guess it would probably be a good idea to go to one of your coming out groups frist but since uni is starting up next week I'd pretty much like to go to somthing then (which would be before the next women's coming out group) ie, when other 'new' people are going. Whilst I'm writing this essay, I would like to add my two-cents on perhaps adding a forum like this on your website - I know it would cost alot more money yet again, but I have found that it is alot easier to write my concerns(if only perhpas bit by bit) in a message as I have time to think and add to my queries rather than when calling a counsellor and getting embarrassed and wanting to get off the phone quickly because i don't want to waste their time waiting to think about what I want to ask. Clearly this system would not work in alot of cases where actual conservations are essential, however, for some simpler questions it could reduce congestion on the telephone line, it would reduce costs and increase ease of use for rural people, and additionally, the answer can be posted at anytime. I'm sure you have all thought of this before and it appears that members of the glcs pop into this page regularly to answer our qn's but do you think the costs of a service like this would balance? perhaps you could provide links to this website so that it can act as a forum for people to ask counsellors from the glcs? Anyway time to stop congesting this wall - congratulations on Mardi Gras - I was watching from the sidelines cheering you on - and would appreciate it if you could extend my thanks to everyone involved in the glcs, I greatly appreciate your service and everything it does - all their work doesn't go unnoticed! I'm sure I'll call again soon. Thanks again!

i heard someone say that coming out is easier these days,,well there might be more bars and out gay people around but i think they missed the point , the hardest part i found was accepting myself and allowing me to be, i was terrified of what would happen, what would be said, who would know etc etc, could i still be seen to be a man is something i still find hard, your gay you must be fashion aware, love dancing, tip toe thru the roses etc etc, i hate people appologising if they say poof, they would say it if i wasnt there why not say it in front of me, some queens dress and act outrageous i find it amusing, as long as it isnt meant nasty i am cool with it, then theres the other side you dont act queeny you must like leather, bears, bla bla bla, probably why i stay home alot with my bf and dogs/cats, so coming out is hard living out is as hard as we make it, its just a matter of how much you want to take on, wishing all the people struggling heaps of strength and just remember honesty can hurt ,lies hurt a hell of lot more be honest with yourself. love all

Hi still in there!

I certainly didn? take your comments as criticism, more like client feedback, and I think that is very important to get feedback from the callers so that we can improve and modify our service to best meet our clients needs, so we welcomed your comments, and I wish more clients would let us know how we are doing.

As for the women? coming out group, I haven? been to any of their meetings, as I am male. I have been to a few of the men? COG and the way the men? COG is run is that the first half is talking about Coming Out issues for the people in the group, anything that? been happening for them lately etc. Whilst the second half is usually devoted to a discussion on a particular topic. Topics for the men have included safer sex practices, spirituality, intimacy, how to find a boyfriend, the gay scene, and so on. The groups are confidential and we respect a persons right not to speak, so you can say as little or as much as you want.

As for the organizations at Uni, try contacting the student representative council, Sydney University Students' Representative Council; Level 1 Wentworth Building GO1 Phone: 02 9660 5222 Fax: 02 9660 4260. They should have a sexuality officer or know of a group that meets. Speaking personally, joining the queer group at the uni I attended was one of the best things I ever did. I made friends that I still have today even though it was long ago and I don? even live in the same town anymore. But that? my experience; yours may be different from mine. I think of it this way if you go at the beginning of semester then the will also be a lot of first timers to the group there as well, so that should make it a little easier, but if you feel up for it, sure go along.

Finally, Im glad u made it to Mardi Gras, hope u had a great time, and thanx for cheering us on, its great to know we are appreciated.

Take care

BC

argh! argh! argh! even though i have accepted who i am (well i think i have) I always get these nights where i am get so upset with myself. I know it's not the fact that i'm gay - basically it's the fact that i don't know how to act upon this! i have no friends that are gay and i've only ever told one friend before and she's not going to go to a gay bar with me..... ARGH ARGH ARGH!!!! I HATE IT! it's like nick on 'always greener' said ... "i don't want to be gay, but I am!!!!!!" ... basically now that i know i want to celebrate the fact... I just don't know how. punch myself, kick myself....!!!!!! swear, swear, swear!!! it seems like it's so easy for everyone whose out there... but it's just so hard for someone who doesn't know anyone to go out with to a non-straight bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help help help!!!

to "punching the wall"just go by yourself, i moved to sydney from adelaide to come out, didnt know a soul, so i had a few sips of courage ( not too many though ) i smiled alot, say g'day to whoever caught my eye, just talked to whoever was near me even if they did not talk back soon i found myself meeting a few nice people my fair share of not so nice ones too, but in the end i found i enjoyed going out alone anyway , going out with others i found annoying if they didnt want to do something i felt obliged to stay with them and other people find it hard to approach you when you are with others, and it is not easy for everyone, but i would rather get disappointed, rejected etc than wonder what might have been, trust me when you take that risk of going for it , boy is it worth it. dont be so hard on yourself,

After being in denial for a long time, I have finally started to come to terms with who I am. I have joined the Queer Collective at uni, and have started to go out to gay pubs. This year I attended my first mardi gras party, and loved it!!! However, it hasn't been easy. Although I didn't expect the gay community to welcome me with open arms, I also didn't expect open hostility. My problem is that I look like a straight girl - when I go out, nobody else looks like me and I am starting to feel like a freak. I don't want to have to shave my head and dress like a bloke to fit in. Can't I just be a girl who likes girls????

I've deliberately held off this message till the end of the week cause i dont want to be accussed of posting a mardi gras "come down"

Whilst i thouroghly enjoyed mardi gras last Saturday i see myself entering some sort of mid life crisis at age 39. The thought of age 40 approaching scares me to death and sometimes sends me into private outbursts of tears and saddness.

i dont enjoy the scene/clubbing anymore cause i simply dont want to feel like crap for days on end after having a night out on the grog or pills. I'm single and havent been attached for nearly 6 years and feel like I will never be loved again. I havent been clubbing other than the occassional big dance party in over 18 months and feel like all my old friends have drifted away from me. My best friends of late have been my work and my computer at home.

Money used to be tight all the time cause I'd spend it every weekend partying now I dont do that that often and I find that I've got more money than i know what to do with and ive become a total scrooge saving all my money with no purpose to actually save for. As an example I spend $4500 on a holiday for my folks for Christmas cause i had nothing and nobody else to spend my money on. Last week my folks retired and packed up and moved to Queensland, the month before that my sister and her husband moved to Queensland and I now have no more family living in Sydney. I'm alone.

Can any of you guys or gals around my age or older suggest any other queer activities other than clubbing that I could look at getting involved in ? If I sit at home all the time i know Ive got no hope of ever meeting people yet I feel the scene is the only option for that sort of activity. I feel like i'm in an almighty catch22.

Im in a real rut and I tend to cry alot more than I have ever done in my youth.

I see the current generation of gay men (18-30) and the way that gay lifestyle is so easy and accepted for them and I feel like Ive been robbed. It was never than pleasurable for me at that age and it makes me angry.

I'm sorry to have bored you all with my ramblings.

hey Newcastle girl - stick with being girly
it's done me well for my whole adult life <grin>

Thanks femme - now all I have to do is find a gorgeous girl who will appreciate it! Wish me luck!!

Hi Lonely - well what to say. I'm 36 in a couple of months, so that's only 3 years difference - not a lot really. In reflection, I'm the oldest guy in my circle of friends - (though I don't act it sometimes!). I hate to think of anyone being miserable out there, especially when we're so lucky to be living
in a generally tolerant society in one of the best cities in the world.

You're right when you say it's a bit of a catch22 situation - don't meet anyone if you don't go out - but don't feel like going out either. Generally - to meet like-minded people, you do need to get out there - as hard as that may be sometimes.

As for other activities, whilst we do club relatively regularly, we're all quite happy to watch a DVD, go for a walk, dinner, lunch etc etc.....just don't sit at home being unhappy - that will simply exacerbate the situation. you mention that many of your old friends have drifted away. Have you contacted them to see what they're up to?

Other than that - I would say don't worry about your age. I'd love to be around 27 again - but I'm not - and there's nothing I can do about it, so I just keep on having a good time. 40 is just a number. If there were more than 9 digits, you'd still be in your thirties.

Hope this helps and all the best. If you want to get in touch, let me know.

For all of those dishearted lipstick lesbians out there don't be discouraged!!! After whinging recently that all lesbians seemed to be scary butch dykes, I was proven wrong when I met the CUTEST girl...wish me luck!!!

Hi! Umm i'm not sure if this'll work but i saw this site and just reading some of the stuff from a while back has been a great help!
Ok why is simply typing so scary?
Anyway i have so many questions so i'll just go with one to start and come back and pester you all again later when i'm not so scared!
So i was wondering is there such a thing as being too young to know if you're gay or 'like' someone? i'm 14 and i keep hearing/ reading stuff that says i'm too young to know, it's proabaly just a phase!
I know that's a bit of a petty thing to bring up, i'm sure you've all got a lot more to worry about but is it true? Am i too young?

Kiara,
I think that only a lucky few are certain of their sexuality and know exactly what they're doing when they're young. For me, I always knew that I was gay, but I thought I could ignore it, act like all my straight friends and everything would be fine. Obviously it got harder and harder to ignore...but I still didn't come out until I was 20. The most important thing I can tell you is that you're not alone. Heaps of people feel exactly like you. There is no definite age when you suddenly have all the answers. You don't have to adopt any label if you dont want to...and honey, if you're happy with who you are and comfortable with your attraction to women, I say its NEVER too young to be a lesbian!!!

Kelly,
Thanks so much for your reply it means a lot to me and it helps to know i'm not the only person who's more than a little confused! I think i've kinda rushed it a bit though cos 4 of my closest friends already know! 2 of them partly cos i hoped they might be a bit nicer to the girl i fancy and cos i knew they'd guessed and wanted them to know i do trust them. Another because i know how open minded she is and also the girl i fancy cos she guessed. I wasn't gonna tell her cos i didn't want ot ruin our friendship but so far she's just avoiding the whole thing and i supose that's ok as long as we're still friends!
It's a bit weird as she's gay/bi (i don't think she knows so i don't know how
i'm suposed to ) but she does that with most stuff! Do people think i did rush too much and if so what should i do? And also is it ok that neither i nor my friend that i like bring it up? cos i don't know that either of would be any good at talking about it!
Thanx again for ur help! This is a great site!
Oh yeah also i totally agree with Newcastle girl(and whoever else sorry i can't rememeber everyone) that there shouldn't be a stereotipical type of lesbian etc even though i would say i do dress alot more like a boy and also i think it is unfair that some gays are biased towards bi's when you'd think we/they of all ppl would understand what that's like and how awful it is!!!!

Kiara,
I wasn't out at school, but watching the (very) few who were, it looked very very hard. I would say tell the people you trust and tell everyone else to mind their own business. If you have a friend that you might be able to chat with about it then bite the bullet and say something!!!

Also, dont worry about the sterotypes. I am very very girly, and so is my lovely girlfriend!

I am 32
I started on the scene at 30 when I was finishing a degree and decided it was my time to be totally honest and have integrity in my life. I was sick and tired of hiding.
Coming out was a mixed experience, I told numerous people slowly, those I knew for the least time were told first and accepted it with varying levels of confidence, some had already guessed.
My parents had difficulty as they know me the most intimately, surprisingly my coming out highlighted their relationship and how it works!! What I mean is that in areas where they communicate poorly the stress for them of my coming out made these areas worse. I had never thought that that would be a result. But otherwise I would say to you out there if you are thinking of coming out, do it wisely in your time and when you feel able.
Primarily this is about you and your life.
I would also like to say this to you if you are considering coming out, if you are dependent financially on those you fear might not take it well, perhaps it is smarter to save some money so you can stand on your own if they freak out and throw you out. Check out all you can on the net about coming out, ask gay friends how it was for them.
Also it will be stressful for you as well, so do it when you feel strong enough or have support and don't use it to shock people, it is testing enough for them and you already. Do this with love.
Saying all this, once you have come out you will be a changed person, there will be no more fear of 'discovery' or hiding, or playing games to keep people in the dark, you can go out and meet people like yourself and have amazing fun. Try and stay sober if you can, cause you can use your wits better.
The best thing is you might even find a loving partner who understands where you are at like I did.
Remember you are beautiful and worthwhile. You deserve to be free.

coming out is hard all round, but like all pain and drama it gets better, the first things my father said was all poofters get aids, my mother seeked mental help,i had so much trouble dealing with it myself and became a drunk and as a result of that and being promiscous ended up being hiv pos all at the tender age of 23, man what a bummer, 1.5 yrs after coming out, once again i had to deal with my fathers wisdom and ignorance, you play with fire you expect to get burnt mmm, anyway an hour later we were all talking about what being pos meant, they were hurt and afraid as was i, but suprisingly it didnt take long before they "accepted" me, and several years later, i am in a 9 year going on 10 yr relationship, they love having us over for any reason in fact i have to make excuses not to go sometimes, we have slept over when my brother and his wife and kids were visiting and stayed as well, it is hard for us and i suppose the biggest fear is what family friends will think etc, but in the end i just had to come out or go mad or kill myself i had no options i could see otherwise, and i am glad i did even if it was hard at first, the pain of others acceptance is nothing to the pain i put myself thru, when i accepted me and allowed me to be it all fell into place and if it didnt then i would just have had to deal with it , but i am glad it did turn out ok, it would all be so easy if we could just say okay i am gay and just get on with it, maybe oneday, in the meantime i suppose more tales like mine will be told and its sad, i feel sad at times but then realise what i have and how i so longed for it and never imagined i could ever have what i have, a partner, home, nice job, friends, family, etc etc i just wish that it doesnt have to come at such a high price for anyone else.

Kelly,
Thanx, i don't know quite who to talk to though cos all my friends that know either avoid the issue or are at least a little homophobic so to them it's kind of like one big joke and i don't really know anyone who's gay apart from one that one girl who just avoids the whole issue of me liking her (she like's my straight best friend, more's the pity!;o)) so i've no one to really talk to about it which is why i sort out this site!
Does anyone know of any where i can seek help (youth groups etc) in the UK, preferably somewhere near Gatwick/ south of London as i can't have my parents finding out, or if not some site that would give me some info eg a phone no. to call to speak to someone? I'd be really greatful for any info or advice, thanx again!

Kiara: Try the London Lesbian and Gay Switchboard. Their website is
http://www.llgs.org.uk/. They should be able to talk with you or refer you to someone who you can.

Just curious, how did everyone else's parents take the news??? My mum pretended that she was fine and then proceeded to completely freak out. My dad is in serious denial. At first i would just shake my head when he said things like, "well, depending on the man you marry...." but now I am getting pissed off.

Hi everyone, ...I'd just like to thank everyone for their support over the past year I guess...just checking in with this website every-so-often and reading how other people are dealing with coming out and also airing my thoughts has helped heaps! I am now on my way ... I've just started seeing a beautiful woman and am really comfortable with who I am. I guess we still have some issues about being gay - but that's more to do with how others see us than with what we are feeling about ourselves and each other! only a few people that I trust know that I am gay, but I know as time goes on I'll tell more of the people I love the truth. I don't know when I'll be able to tell my parents though ... I hope it all works out with you Kelly.
btw, we both still live at home due to no $$$ ... how did others out there work through this if there parents didn't know (we're a bit too old for the 'sleep-over' excuses!)? Anyways, it would be cool to hear about other peoples experiences ... thanks again everyone!

Sorry i can't help any1 with their experiences as i'm kinda new to all this but like HAPPY i've been kind of quietly "listening" in to everyone elses experience but now i've reached the point where i'm asking for some help. I think i'm in love but this particular girl doesn't feel the same and at the moment she and a friend of mine and hers have some secret that means their always together and don't really have time for us (their other friends) I've tried both talking to her about it but she just gets annoyed and avoids the issue and continues practically ignoring me and i've tried shutting up about it but then she just doesn't really talk to me and doesn't seem to realise how i'm upset i am about it even though, i'm embarressed to admit when i fell out with her about it and she started being horrible for a bit she actually made me cry and knows it (don't condem her just yet though because she's normally really nive, though i supose i would say that) So now i don't know what to do! It's hard because not many of my friends know how i feel about her and they're annoyed at her too!
Should i just give up and start the impossible process of trying to get over her until i end up being forced to move or should i continue hanging around being the friend she probably doesn't want there until i can't keep pretending i'm ok anymore?
I know i'm just being a pain here but please help!

Cry4Help
Unlike people unrequited love does not disciminate between gay str8t or inbetween.Ir is only my opinion.But I think you need to move on emotionally.By focusing on this person who is obviously not interested other people who just might be are passing you by.And so you are missing out.Get out there,find someone who wants you as much as you do them.They are out there.

thanks for the advice 'starcat', looks like i sounded even more pathetic than i thought i did. i hear what you're saying it's just it seems there's rather a difference between knowing what to do and doing it.
i can make all the disisions i want now but i know that when i see her again soon it'll all be forgotten and i'll be right back where i started! so what can i do to get over her? I think i just have a problem with reality and trouble with false hopes and ideals!

Hi it's Kiara again (yep i'm afraid i am back!:o)I'm trying to actually get out there so does anyone know of any ways of getting to meet some other gay people in and around a place called Horsham in West Sussex (UK) because i've looked at so many sites my eyes are starting to hurt and i'm racking up a serious phone bill so could someone, anyone please give me some info or the name of a site that can help?
I've tried some of the previous suggestions but it seems like the people of Horsham don't even know what the word gay means let alone got anything that could help:o)!!!!!

is it me or has it been awfully quiet round here? Am i missing something?

Clearly i am missing something as i seem to be alone in the world, i'm getting bored out here.
So if anyone wants to chat or something to a bored young and loney teenager my email adress is Devil_call666@hotmail.com (i don't worship the devil though i was just bored (again))

I told myself i'd stop bothering everyone (i was on here yesterday (Devil_call666) but i really need to talk even if i don't get an answer! i tried calling a friend earlier but she kept changing the subject, perhaps not intentionally but either way i didn't get to talk!
I was ok (as you can tell by my last message) so it can't be that bad it's just i've just been speaking to this girl and she's really scaring me! Somehtings obviously bothering her but she won't tell me what and she's drivng me mad with worry! I hate to think of her being upset! It's awful being gay! My friends don't talk to me as much and i have no one to talk to! Unrequited love is a horrible thing but being so alone anyway just makes it worse!
I don't know what to do for her or myself or anyone! I don't know anything it seems!